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OfflineHanky
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HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! * 1
    #50049 - 06/03/08 07:40 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I'm constantly seeing posts where people are scared to get or run a HID light because they think it'll use massive amounts of power.

Compare a 400w or 600w light to the following items in your home.

Clothes dryer or electric oven... 5000w

Medium sized window mounted AC unit... 900w

Full ducted AC... 3500w

Electric water heater... 3800w

Toaster or microwave oven... 1500w

Coffee maker... 900w

PC with 17inch CRT monitor... 240w

xbox 360... 165w


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InvisibleInverted
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Hanky]
    #50241 - 06/03/08 09:23 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

/\ /\ Well said...


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OfflineEvan
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Hanky]
    #50263 - 06/03/08 09:30 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

That's what I'm always telling friends who are scared of using power. Most heaters are 1500 W and plus not to mention just having 10 60 watt lightbulbs on in a house is like running a 600 watt lightbulb.


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Offlinekidaihuan
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Evan] * 2
    #50398 - 06/03/08 11:17 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Those things don't take 400-1000w for 18 hours of the day, though.

Couple minutes or hours max for most of them.


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OfflineOreoGrows
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: kidaihuan]
    #50426 - 06/04/08 12:26 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

my water heater and AC goes all day in the summer.
but the point is, there is not a room in the electric company where they go over peoples electric bills to try and find people growing weed.

maybe if youre electricity suddenly starts drawing 10000 extra watts 24/7, they might call and see if your ok, but anything less than 3000 watts is not worth looking into for them.


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OfflineTheMantis
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: OreoGrows]
    #50471 - 06/04/08 01:45 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

That was good dose of reality.  :foreheadslap: 

What kind of coffee maker are you using? 900w? You need a percolator.


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OfflineSirius
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: kidaihuan]
    #50527 - 06/04/08 03:15 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kidaihuan said:
Those things don't take 400-1000w for 18 hours of the day, though.





$30 to $50 a month isn't expensive.


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OfflineAnnom
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Hanky] * 1
    #50528 - 06/04/08 03:15 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

:thumbup:

Or 6-10 normal incandescent bulbs. Change all your normal incandescents with CFL (in your home) and you have almost covered your 400-600W HID use. Depends of course on the size of your home and how often you use the lamps. Not that you need to do this for security. 600W is nothing.


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Offlinekidaihuan
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Sirius]
    #50533 - 06/04/08 03:22 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sirius said:
Quote:

kidaihuan said:
Those things don't take 400-1000w for 18 hours of the day, though.





$30 to $50 a month isn't expensive.




Speak for yourself.


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OfflineAnnom
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: kidaihuan]
    #50534 - 06/04/08 03:26 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kidaihuan said:
Quote:

Sirius said:
Quote:

kidaihuan said:
Those things don't take 400-1000w for 18 hours of the day, though.




$30 to $50 a month isn't expensive.



Speak for yourself.



I get 300-400g dry weed from a 400W HPS in 3 months. That's worth around $2000 when I have to buy it in my local coffee shop (I'm from Holland). That means $50 for power isn't expensive at all.


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Offlinekidaihuan
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Annom]
    #50545 - 06/04/08 03:59 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Annom said:
Quote:

kidaihuan said:
Quote:

Sirius said:
Quote:

kidaihuan said:
Those things don't take 400-1000w for 18 hours of the day, though.




$30 to $50 a month isn't expensive.



Speak for yourself.



I get 300-400g dry weed from a 400W HPS in 3 months. That's worth around $2000 when I have to buy it in my local coffee shop (I'm from Holland). That means $50 for power isn't expensive at all.




I want droogz. :frown:


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OfflineGROWEED
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Hanky]
    #53383 - 06/08/08 07:22 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Well Said Hero Habky!


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OfflineHanky
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Hanky]
    #74619 - 07/07/08 07:34 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hanky said:
I'm constantly seeing posts where people are scared to get or run a HID light because they think it'll use massive amounts of power.

Compare a 400w or 600w light to the following items in your home.

Clothes dryer or electric oven...            5000w

Medium sized window mounted AC unit...        900w

Full ducted AC...                            3500w

Electric water heater...                    3800w

Toaster or microwave oven...                1500w

Coffee maker...                              900w

PC with 17inch CRT monitor...                240w

xbox 360...                                  165w







Bump.


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OfflineP.Menace
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Hanky]
    #75756 - 07/08/08 06:22 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

:nothingtoadd:


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OfflineEleutherios

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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Annom]
    #78018 - 07/10/08 10:09 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annom said:
:thumbup:

Or 6-10 normal incandescent bulbs. Change all your normal incandescents with CFL (in your home) and you have almost covered your 400-600W HID use. Depends of course on the size of your home and how often you use the lamps. Not that you need to do this for security. 600W is nothing.




Good idea!. So I had a neighbor tell me once that if you ran your hps setup through the socket for a clothes drier (120v I think?), that it would eat up less electricity because there is less electrical resistance. Is there any validity to this?


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Eleutherios]
    #78030 - 07/10/08 10:41 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

you don't need to run your lamp through a socket like that, and i believe it's a 220 volt connection.  If you want to do that, just buy the appropriate cord set.


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OfflinePrism1234


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: coda]
    #82999 - 07/14/08 10:25 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I knew there was a reason I bought that 400 watt MH setup the other day...

My 400 Watt HPS is lonely!!  :smile:


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Prism1234]
    #83179 - 07/14/08 04:33 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)



you should watch that video to see why it's beneficial to run a MH alongside an HPS.

UVB light ftw!!


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Invisibledumbfounded1800


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: coda]
    #85179 - 07/16/08 11:54 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Usually what strikes a bill is because people are doing large scale 10-12 1000W lights and don't know shit about electricity. That's usually what gets em busted. 99% of the time of all busts from a power high electric bill are busting people with 80-150 plants.


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OfflineChronica


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: dumbfounded1800]
    #85242 - 07/16/08 02:12 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Full ducted AC...                            3500w




The HPS's Heat will be turning this on.


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OfflineSirius
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: dumbfounded1800]
    #85252 - 07/16/08 02:24 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dumbfounded1800 said:
99% of the time of all busts from a power high electric bill are busting people with 80-150 plants.




How many busts do you know of that were due to the people having a high electric bill? I've certainly heard of a lot that resulted from people doing large-scale grows and stealing electricity, but never busted simply because their power bill was high.... :shrug:


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Invisibledumbfounded1800


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Sirius]
    #85261 - 07/16/08 02:36 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sirius said:
Quote:

dumbfounded1800 said:
99% of the time of all busts from a power high electric bill are busting people with 80-150 plants.




How many busts do you know of that were due to the people having a high electric bill? I've certainly heard of a lot that resulted from people doing large-scale grows and stealing electricity, but never busted simply because their power bill was high.... :shrug:




Fluxuations. Meaning it was $100 to $8....then goes up to $400 to $50


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OfflineSirius
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: dumbfounded1800]
    #85273 - 07/16/08 02:55 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, but what I'm asking is how many busts do you know of where that was the cause of the bust?


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Sirius]
    #85403 - 07/16/08 05:38 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Fluxuations. Meaning it was $100 to $8....then goes up to $400 to $50




that's not enough to do anything.  The majority of busts come from people stealing power.  Why would a power company care how much your bill is if you're paying for it?


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Invisibledumbfounded1800


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: coda]
    #85412 - 07/16/08 05:44 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sirius said:
Yes, but what I'm asking is how many busts do you know of where that was the cause of the bust?




I think I was exagerating a bit too much there. It is common though.

Quote:

coda said:
Quote:

Fluxuations. Meaning it was $100 to $8....then goes up to $400 to $50




that's not enough to do anything.  The majority of busts come from people stealing power.  Why would a power company care how much your bill is if you're paying for it?





All they have to do is look at your past bill and see that your reg bills were in the 100's and now all of a sudden there fluctuating down to $40-50...Indicating that you MAY be stealing electricity which isn't always the case. Most of the time people are just saving electricity bills.


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: dumbfounded1800]
    #85427 - 07/16/08 05:58 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

no, what you said makes no sense.  That won't indicate you're stealing power.  What would indicate you were stealing power would be a high amount of wattage coming from your house while it's only registering a small amount, but even then i don't think that's possible.  Simply because when you steal power, you re-wire your main breaker outside the house to bypass the meter.  In that case they would witness a high usage of power in your area with nothing showing on the meters.

Simply fluctuating up and down is not substantial evidence.  My bills routinely fluctuate from 160 to 80 dollars.  I've gone as high as 200 down to 50 bucks.  This was all dependent on how long and how much i was running my AC unit.


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Invisibledumbfounded1800


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: coda]
    #85444 - 07/16/08 06:13 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

coda said:
no, what you said makes no sense.  That won't indicate you're stealing power.  What would indicate you were stealing power would be a high amount of wattage coming from your house while it's only registering a small amount, but even then i don't think that's possible.  Simply because when you steal power, you re-wire your main breaker outside the house to bypass the meter.  In that case they would witness a high usage of power in your area with nothing showing on the meters.




Yeah, your right. I don't want to use the I'm too stoned excuse but I'll learn now to double check what I'm actually writing.


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: dumbfounded1800]
    #85447 - 07/16/08 06:16 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

:laugh:

It's cool man, it's a very common misconception that you can get busted simply based on your power usage alone.  If that was the main reason a cop got a warrant to search your house, a public defender would be able to get the evidence suppressed easily.  It's no where near probable cause for a search.


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Offlinedurban_poison
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: coda]
    #156173 - 12/05/08 04:29 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

c.  Power usage

            Examination of power consumption records has become a common investigative tool since indoor cultivation relies heavily on electricity. If your use is high, the cops say that’s probable cause.  If your use is low, cops say that’s probable cause, too, because you must be stealing the power.  The problem is, if you steal the power, not only are you a thief, but power company employees easily detect it. In the course of lawfully searching for the power tap they will bring police with them and whatever you’re growing will be discovered.  The solution to this dilemma is simple:  don’t be greedy.  One or two lights are really all you need unless you are growing for the Green Cross.

            If you find yourself in court with this issue, argue that above average or increased power use has too many legitimate explanations to be considered probable cause.  See, e.g., State v. McPherson,  698 P.2d 563 (Wash. App. 1984).  Compare, State v. Donahue, 762 P.2d 1022 (Or.App. 1988) (accepting increased power use as having some significance where the odor of marijuana was also present).

            An attorney can minimize the probable cause value of power usage information with statistics from the power company showing what is average and what the range of power consumption is, and by employing an expert[7] to advise the court of the many other innocent explanations for the high power consumption.

            In addition to questions regarding their probative value, police seizure of power records may raise constitutional and statutory issues.  In Washington state, the Privacy Act prohibits seizure without a written statement of "articulable suspicion."  Wash.Rev.Code ' 42.17.314 (codifying In re Rosier, 717 P.2d 1353 (Wash. 1986); State v. Maxwell, 791 P.2d 332 (Wash. 1990), (applying the statutory protection to the search warrant process, while refusing to rule on the constitutional issue); State v. Butterworth, 737 P.2d 1297 (Wash. 1987) (specifically declining to rule on the Constitutional issue).  There is an argument that such a seizure of power records is unconstitutional because it violates individual privacy rights.  In an age where computer technology makes every small bit of recorded information available almost instantaneously, realistic protection of the fragile right of privacy requires that prior judicial approval precede search or seizure of information regarding matters occurring within a citizen's home.  The seizure of power records is for the purpose of securing evidence of a crime; the evidence is of a nature which reflects the private activities of a citizen within his or her home, and about which the citizen has a reasonable expectation of privacy.  See, Hearst Corp. v. Hoppe, 580 P.2d 246 (Wash. 1978).  In Hearst, the Washington Supreme Court observed, (in a non-criminal context):

            Every individual has some phases of his life and his activities and some facts about himself that he does not expose to the public eye, but keeps entirely to himself or at most reveals only to his family or to close personal friends.  Sexual relations, for example are normally entirely private matters, as are family quarrels, many unpleasant or disgraceful or humiliating illnesses, most intimate personal letters, most details of a man's life in his home, and some of his history that he would rather forget."  (Emphasis supplied).

 

580 P.2d at 253, quoting, Restatement (Second) of Torts, '652 D at 383 (1977).

            An interesting side issue here comes from the fact that pot growers often divert (steal) power to keep high power bills from alerting the authorities.  Where a diversion is suspected, power companies will install "comparator" meters, which show that not all power being used by a residence is flowing through the meter.  Where this takes place, argue first that the comparator meter requires a warrant, and second, that probable cause to search for power theft does not constitute probable cause to search the entire house, since power is stolen outside the house, before the wires reach the meter.



a news link you guys might want  to check out:
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=124786&catid=3

i will post a few more utility related incidents soon. it is considered very uncommon but it does happen and generally because of a "tipster".


Edited by durban_poison (12/05/08 04:40 PM)


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OfflineKalcu
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: durban_poison]
    #174676 - 01/03/09 03:29 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I know this thread is a little old, but really the whole issue with power is something the cops can do without a warrant.

They can check your meter without a warrant or even get a warrant to look at your power bill.  They aren't even going to look at your usage to see if you are growing weed; they already believe that since they are checking you out under such a belief.  What they are looking for is that you are not in any way growing weed drawing power.

People have been busted after buying lights and just a fraction of an increase in power usage.  So the best bet is if you buy your lights and it's not smuggled to your grow like other illegal things; then wait awhile to have things cool down.

Don't buy a HID and plug it in right away with pot plants underneath it; so if you do get a warrant served they don't find anything illegal.

I know it sucks, some huge grows get away with it for a long time then someone with a 250 watter gets popped after ordering from one of the companies the DEA bugs the hell out of to get shipping records.  Then they contact the local PD and they check out the electric bill, of course using a grow light doesn't mean anything illegal but they do think it does when it isn't a 50-80 year old person with no criminal record.


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Kalcu]
    #175543 - 01/05/09 02:42 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Ehh, i don't buy that arguement.  Before law enforcement would look into your power usage they would need probable cause or is it reasonable suspicion.  I get those two mixed up.  They aren't just requesting everyone's power record and analyzing them all to see if any of them match what an indoor cultivators usage would be.  I think the best bet to not get busted is to keep your lips sealed.  You say people have been busted after buying lights and having a fraction of an increase in their overall usage but I would guess that at least 90% of those busted are busted for other reasons.  Not solely for their energy consumption, more like they were bragging to a friend who got jealous or a crazy bitch ex girlfriend ratting you out.  That's my 2 cents.  Welcome to the Growery!  We encourage an open exchange of ideas as you'll see.


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Edited by FurrowedBrow (01/05/09 03:08 PM)


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OfflineJMR


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #175586 - 01/05/09 04:31 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I'll have to agree with Furrowedbrow on this one. I don't think that the cops are going to be watching every store that sells and hps system....cause these lights are not just for growing pot. It would be to much of a run around for them. If your doing a relatively small grow with one light then the main factors to not getting busted would be to keep your mouth shut eye open and keep the smell down. One best ways I have found not to get busted it to observe what is going on around and follow your gut.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Kalcu]
    #175943 - 01/06/09 09:58 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

how many people have been busted for 250watt grows?

That's like less power consumption than my laptop


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Offlinelopan
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: captain.koons]
    #176312 - 01/06/09 07:35 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Not entirely on topic with the conversation (though on topic with the subject) but my 600w hps has brought my power bill up $140 / month.  :thumbdown:


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: lopan]
    #176318 - 01/06/09 08:14 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

600w is costing you 140$ a month? That sounds like A LOT..... that sounds like 3times as much as you should pay.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: captain.koons]
    #177015 - 01/07/09 10:15 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I thought so as well - but the increase has been pretty consistent.  Mind you, that was during the 24 hour light cycle.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: lopan]
    #177027 - 01/07/09 10:43 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

still dude

it shouldn't cost $140 even if you lived in like guam or some other lame area where they charge silly amounts of money for some electricity. do you have the cost per kw hour your electricity company charges you?


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: captain.koons]
    #177070 - 01/08/09 12:45 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

12.24cent USD.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: lopan]
    #177075 - 01/08/09 01:03 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

600w 24/0 = 14.4 kw hours a day * 30 days in a month = 432 kw hours *.1224 (for teh moneyz) = 52.88$ for 1month of 24hour use off a 600w hps at 12.24cent USD per kw hour

another case solved!


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: captain.koons]
    #177085 - 01/08/09 04:05 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Hmmmmm.
So now I need to track down the other $90 in additional power usage. ><
Thanks Koons.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: lopan]
    #177086 - 01/08/09 04:57 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I am here to serve my people!


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Offlinefreepain

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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: coda]
    #178567 - 01/10/09 01:07 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

coda said:


you should watch that video to see why it's beneficial to run a MH alongside an HPS.

UVB light ftw!!




This guy just gets more and more stoned threw the whole thing and just starts being like yeahh man at the end its hilarious


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OfflineMr. Hands
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Hanky]
    #184656 - 01/19/09 07:10 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I respectfully disagree.

I remember reading a story about how in California a house was raided because of high electricity usage.  This is how it went: 

1.  The power company saw this house had a very high bill.
2.  Power company notifies cops.
3.  Cops do a garbage pull on the house (totally legal in most states).
4.  Nothing was found in the garbage but a dog did get a "hit" on the garbage.  In a lot of states that is enough to get a search warrant.
5.  Cops raid house and find that the reason the electricity bill was so high is because there were like five kids in the house all with their own tv's, video game consoles, etc..
6.  Cops have no idea why the police dog "Office Scruffs" gave a false positive.
7.  The idiot cops should have hooked up to the line to see if they were running HID lights but they didn't.

What is the moral of the story here?  A lot of power companies cooperate with the police in reporting suspicious electricity usage.  The police will then pull your garbage or hook up to your line to see what you're running.  If they see a HPS turning on everyday like clockwork then they will start to sniff around even more.  They will look up your financial records.  If you are making $20,000 a year but spending $50,000 a year then that is one more piece of evidence they will use against you.

Now, I'm not trying to make you guys paranoid.  Running a small little Metal Halide in your vegetative room and a 400W-600W HPS in your budding room is not going to capture anybody's attention.  But, if your bill goes from $40 a month to $200 a month or some shit like that....beware.  You never can be too careful.

My advice to all growers out there:

1.  Establish a high electricity usage the second you put a meter in your name.  You can always claim that you have three roommates or something like that.  Try not to have massive fluctuations.
2.  NEVER throw away anything in your garbage.  Even if you touch some weed and then touch a piece of paper DO NOT put that paper in the garbage as it has marijuana residue on it.  Have a "bad" garbage that contains anything questionable and dispose of it far from your house.  Also, wash your hands constantly.
3.  Use your official money you earn from your job for traceable stuff.  Pay your utility bills, rent, car payment etc.. with your paycheck.  Pay for untraceable stuff (food, gas in your car, toys, etc..) with your drug proceeds.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #185055 - 01/19/09 09:13 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Funny name Mr. Hands.  I'm assuming it's named after the video?:crazy2:

However, there is no way for police or electric companies to "hook up" to your line and see what type of appliances you're running in your house.  There is no way they are ever going to know that you have a HPS in your house and when it is turning on and off. 

pure hogwash!:whack:


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: AKSE]
    #185097 - 01/19/09 10:16 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I don't know how or if they can tell if a HID light is running I'd assume it's impossible or impracticle(not done). THey can monitor spikes in your eletricity consumption though like every 12 hours your use goes up by 1200watts and 12 hours later that use goes down to normal.


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OfflineMr. Hands
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: AKSE]
    #185236 - 01/20/09 03:08 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

AKSE said:
However, there is no way for police or electric companies to "hook up" to your line and see what type of appliances you're running in your house.  There is no way they are ever going to know that you have a HPS in your house and when it is turning on and off. 




Untrue.  I have taken extensive electronics classes at the university level.  I'm also an electrician.

Different electrical components have different electricity usage characteristics which can easily be measured.  For example, motors have a large spike which quickly evens out after turning on.  Most of your appliances are basically motors and their usage patterns are easily identifiable.  If examining a line with the appropriate device it is possible to see what type of devices are running. 

It is also possible for the police to examine electricity usage levels during certain time periods.  If your house draws a normal amount and then like clockwork an additional 1000 Watts turns on from 12 noon to 12 midnight then that can be detected.

However, let me say that the vast majority of grows are not found out because of high electric use.  They are found out because someone snitched.  Just keep it small and you won't have problems.  No power company is going to notice one or two 400 watters.  It's when you have like a 4000 watt budding room or some shit like that when I'd be paranoid.

Also, if you are pushing it with your usage (over $150 a month bill for a regular house) there are ways to try to lower it a bit.  Be an electricity miser.  Have your veg room be only on for 18 hours instead of an unnecessary 24 hours.  Have a cool white flourescent in your veg room that is only a few watts instead of an unnecessary 400 watt Metal Halide.  By the way, having a tiny veg room is actually a great way to save electricity, because you barely need any wattage to keep a mother alive and to root some clones.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #185238 - 01/20/09 03:28 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

A few years ago when my buddies house recieved a knock on the door about high electric usage he explained it by showing a house full of electronics that ran constantly.

In a house with 4 guys each one had a fairly good sized tv a game system most had more than one computer. not to mention all the other crap that was on constantly.

what ended up happening was that when the lights were one everything else got turned off.  yeah there were changes in the demand, but nothing significant.


One thing that I would reccomend is if you have a lot of lights don't turn them all on at the same time.  Also putting some of your more power hungry electronics on a power strip and killing them while you run the lights might be a decent idea.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #185278 - 01/20/09 08:21 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

power relays and flip flops would change that though?


Quote:

Mr. Hands said:
Quote:

AKSE said:
However, there is no way for police or electric companies to "hook up" to your line and see what type of appliances you're running in your house.  There is no way they are ever going to know that you have a HPS in your house and when it is turning on and off. 




Untrue.  I have taken extensive electronics classes at the university level.  I'm also an electrician.

Different electrical components have different electricity usage characteristics which can easily be measured.  For example, motors have a large spike which quickly evens out after turning on.  Most of your appliances are basically motors and their usage patterns are easily identifiable.  If examining a line with the appropriate device it is possible to see what type of devices are running. 

It is also possible for the police to examine electricity usage levels during certain time periods.  If your house draws a normal amount and then like clockwork an additional 1000 Watts turns on from 12 noon to 12 midnight then that can be detected.

However, let me say that the vast majority of grows are not found out because of high electric use.  They are found out because someone snitched.  Just keep it small and you won't have problems.  No power company is going to notice one or two 400 watters.  It's when you have like a 4000 watt budding room or some shit like that when I'd be paranoid.

Also, if you are pushing it with your usage (over $150 a month bill for a regular house) there are ways to try to lower it a bit.  Be an electricity miser.  Have your veg room be only on for 18 hours instead of an unnecessary 24 hours.  Have a cool white flourescent in your veg room that is only a few watts instead of an unnecessary 400 watt Metal Halide.  By the way, having a tiny veg room is actually a great way to save electricity, because you barely need any wattage to keep a mother alive and to root some clones.




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OfflineMr. Hands
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: captain.koons]
    #185595 - 01/20/09 05:44 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I don't understand what you are asking.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #185598 - 01/20/09 05:52 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Flip flops is a device that is used to run a ballast 24hours a day but 12hours on 1 set of lights and 12hours on another set of lights.

Power relays (i'm fairly certain that's the correct name for them) are devices you run all of your electrical trough to prevent power spikes and electrical fires from drawing too many amps? I'm not 100% sure i don't use either of these.


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OfflineMr. Hands
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: captain.koons]
    #185602 - 01/20/09 06:03 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

captain.koons said:
Flip flops is a device that is used to run a ballast 24hours a day but 12hours on 1 set of lights and 12hours on another set of lights.




That sounds like the same thing as running lights 24/7.  This can somewhat "cover up" the 12 hour on/12 hour off cycle if you do it right.  But, the authorities can still determine if you are running HID lights if they so desire.  Just be smart...don't run a massive grow-op with 12 1000 watt HPS's.

Quote:

captain.koons said:
Power relays (i'm fairly certain that's the correct name for them) are devices you run all of your electrical trough to prevent power spikes and electrical fires from drawing too many amps? I'm not 100% sure i don't use either of these.




A relay is an electrical device that closes or opens another circuit based on whether or not power is applied to one side.  In other words, you apply power to one side and it causes the other side to activate.  Maybe you are referring to a "line conditioner"?  I have heard of growers using these to attempt to mask their electrical signals.  But, any experienced technician would be able to make readings and determine what was going on.


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OfflineAKSE


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #185646 - 01/20/09 08:07 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Different electrical components have different electricity usage characteristics which can easily be measured.  For example, motors have a large spike which quickly evens out after turning on.  Most of your appliances are basically motors and their usage patterns are easily identifiable.  If examining a line with the appropriate device it is possible to see what type of devices are running.

You had originally said that they can "hook-up" to you line and find out what device you are using.  You made it seem as if they had some sort of special device they used to hook up to the line, which there is not.  And yes, ofcourse they can narrow it down to get an idea of what type of device you have, but unless you have over 1000w light I see no need to worry.  Also if this case were to ever happen, it would be the electrical company not the police doing this.
 
It is also possible for the police to examine electricity usage levels during certain time periods.  If your house draws a normal amount and then like clockwork an additional 1000 Watts turns on from 12 noon to 12 midnight then that can be detected.

Agreed, it would deffinitly be noticeable if you had something 1000w or larger turning on and off at the same time.

However, let me say that the vast majority of grows are not found out because of high electric use.  They are found out because someone snitched.

Yes, however many grows are also exposed due to stealing electricity by bypassing the meter.

Have your veg room be only on for 18 hours instead of an unnecessary 24 hours.

Yeah, it could cut it down a bit.  As far as 24hr being unnecissary? Can't say I agree with that.

However no matter the case, IMO when you surpass 1000w dedicated to a grow, it would have a better chance of becoming noticeable.


Edited by AKSE (01/20/09 08:08 PM)


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OfflineKalcu
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #189253 - 01/25/09 08:23 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Well they don't need a warrant to manually inspect the meter and see how it's running.

The sad thing is that they don't need any math to back up their accusation.  A simple inference will do and when they actually find something illegal growing that supports their claim so you cannot say that they didn't have the proper math to support their warrant.

Always wait after ordering things, after six months their PC is pretty much down the toilet without knew Intel.

Cops work under the same methods of Intel as most of them were in the military and have militarized the civilian world.  Employing counter Intel methods is really your only chance of survival.

Plus counter Intel makes them look dumb on the stand if you do get caught, you can really destabilize their view.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Kalcu]
    #192292 - 02/04/09 07:12 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Hey guys, just so you know you can go to power companies and tell them your a medical grower. They give a deal to med growers on the power. This is not a joke since I'm doing it and have been for years. Little scary filling out the paper work but I'd have been done it a long long long time ago if the power company wasn't cool with it.

Also to get noticed you have to be cranking out way more then a 1000 watt light can do. In fact to even get looked at you need to be doing like 6000 watts of power or more.


Wanna not get busted keep your mouth shut.


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Offlinemattyyy
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Magash]
    #192449 - 02/04/09 11:07 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

how much of a break do they give you?


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: mattyyy]
    #192697 - 02/05/09 05:15 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

What if I wanted to do a 12,000 watt grow? Are there any good ideas on generator usage? Would it be cost effective or even possible at all?


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OfflineMr. Hands
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: lothario]
    #194655 - 02/11/09 06:14 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

There have been many grows that used generators.  It is not economically competitive to use generated elecricity.  It is much cheaper to buy it from the electric company.  But, the extra cost for the generated power can be worth it in order to hide your electricity usage.  And it doesn't matter because you'll be making a ton of money anyway.  :shrug:

I would look into diesel, propane, or natural gas generators depending on what you want to do and how much money you have.  Be warned though, it would be very expensive to set up a massive operation like that and VERY illegal (i.e. you go to prison if caught).


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #194707 - 02/11/09 11:47 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Doesn't every one wish solar panels were like $2.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: lothario]
    #194711 - 02/11/09 11:52 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lothario said:
What if I wanted to do a 12,000 watt grow? Are there any good ideas on generator usage? Would it be cost effective or even possible at all?



Yes, you could use a generator. Generator energy is more expensive than grid energy and they are noisy, but energy is still cheap.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Annom]
    #194821 - 02/11/09 05:20 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

a 30kw generator uses about 2gals of diesel per hour

12hours days * 63 day crop = 31.5 full days * 24hrs * 2gph = 1512gals * diesel cost per gal = operation cost

I think it would be a lot of work to hide the exhaust and you could get busted if someone notices the diesel exhaust never ending.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: captain.koons]
    #194834 - 02/11/09 06:31 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Honda makes some really good and quiet gas generators.

Alot of times I have been able to run these inside (accounting for exhaust ducting) without anyone noticing.


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like i said before

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OfflinePsilomind2

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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Chronica]
    #196054 - 02/14/09 07:12 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

This is what the transformer is for, it supplies the power to the bulb. HID's use far less power than regular lights and produce many times more lumens. Almost every transformer is a "multi-tap", you can check this by looking at the wiring on the transformer. If it is a multi tap you will see the 120v lead being used and usually 3 others capped off. These are for higher voltages, they are labled right on the wire so if you have a 220,240,277,480 etc outlet available, check and see if your transformer has that lead, then follow the wiring diagram on the transformer to hook that up properly. The benefit of using the higher voltage leads is faster warm up and yes, less resistance and heat on your homes wiring. Any extra safety is worth it.


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OfflineBulkBread

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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Hanky]
    #202940 - 03/04/09 02:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Hanky said:
I'm constantly seeing posts where people are scared to get or run a HID light because they think it'll use massive amounts of power.

Compare a 400w or 600w light to the following items in your home.

Clothes dryer or electric oven...            5000w

Medium sized window mounted AC unit...        900w

Full ducted AC...                            3500w

Electric water heater...                    3800w

Toaster or microwave oven...                1500w

Coffee maker...                              900w

PC with 17inch CRT monitor...                240w

xbox 360...                                  165w




But running it 12/24 hours a day, also it goes by amps, not watts. With a 600W setup it would cost a lot....


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: BulkBread]
    #203242 - 03/05/09 09:04 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Amps are included in the calculation for watts (W(watts)=A(amps)*V(voltage)) so a 600w light uses 5.45A. Lets see how much that would cost to run 24 hours per day...

Now I don't know what you're talking about when you say 'it goes by amps, not watts' because if you've ever paid for your own electricity you would know that it is charged by the kilowatt-hour (KW*h). A 600w lamp run 24 hours a day = 14.4KW*h per day. Around me the cost for a KW*h is about .07$ so it costs me almost exactly 1$ per day to run my light 24h; or .50$ per day when in flower. So if I say a standard grow is 3 months (1 veg 2 flower) the cost of lighting my entire grow with a single 600w light is about 60$. I don't know about you but 60$ is nothing when I pull some top quality ganja out of my closet... Priceless


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Offlineethnoguy
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #203260 - 03/05/09 10:25 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Exactly.

I have a suggestion: lock this thread and add a link in the power consumption sticky by coda. This thing needs to die already.

EG


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OfflineCuban Strain

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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Chronica]
    #209066 - 03/26/09 04:54 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What about fear of infrared radars from choppers? from all of you opinions I can see that a 400w or 600w is nothing, but what about the heat it produces? I live right behind a hwy that has 1000w along the road, and there are about 10 choppers a day that fly by. Is it too risky?


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Cuban Strain]
    #209079 - 03/26/09 09:08 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Just run the lights when its daylight outside, and have them off for the coolest part of the night. They aren't going to catch someone with a couple of lights IMO. You are at least going to need a good bit of heat. They are suppose to have a warrant to do this, but we know how that works. If they can get a warrant is is probably going to be a search warrant. Why would they spend all that money on personal grows?

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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: ethnoguy]
    #240052 - 06/15/09 11:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/howmuch.html this should tell you how much shit cost.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: bnutz]
    #240086 - 06/16/09 09:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bnutz said:
http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/howmuch.html this should tell you how much shit cost.



Yup that's a legit source of info too. This guy is a mathematical gambling god his good friends with the wizard of odds (the mathematical gambling god).

Nice link man!


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Chronica]
    #240964 - 06/18/09 09:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Chronica said:
Quote:

Full ducted AC...                            3500w




The HPS's Heat will be turning this on.




eh :ohwell:


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: 4747]
    #240967 - 06/18/09 09:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

4747 said:
Quote:

Chronica said:
Quote:

Full ducted AC...                            3500w




The HPS's Heat will be turning this on.




eh :ohwell:




Didn't you hear? 400W equals 400 degrees.....Celsius. :lol:

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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Hanky]
    #245079 - 07/01/09 07:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I completely agree with you. I'm set on getting a cheap HPS maybe 175W or 250w to flower stinky. I'm thinking 50 squid will do it on ebay, make a reflector and wuallah. Even if it meant a reasonable increase in flower production, you could sell a bit to your friends and pay for the leccy bill.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #245092 - 07/01/09 08:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Dr. Penguin said:Around me the cost for a KW*h is about .07$




In Ireland, electricity costs 16 c for a Kilowatt hour. That's over twice what you're paying. How's that fair? Is your leccy generated in a nuclear power station?


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Chronica]
    #255410 - 07/26/09 11:10 AM (10 years, 29 days ago)

heres how to do it we'll do 400 watts for example so first 400 x 12 hrs is 4800 or 4.8 kilowatts of energy per day so 4.8 times 30days is 144 kilwatts per month so take that and multiply it by how much your energy company charges per kilowatt hour and there you have it so the formula is  (watts)x(hours perday)=Daily consumption
(Daily Consumption). divided by (1000)= kilowatts per day used
(kwatts per day) x (30 days) = monthly power usage
(monthly power usage) x (electric companys energy cost)= price to use light per month


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: supersiege]
    #255411 - 07/26/09 11:13 AM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Just invested in a 400W HPS/MH switchable. It's a bit high powered for what I want. But I'll do a bigger grow next time to get something near efficient use out of it. Testing it out to see how hot it gets now.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! *DELETED* [Re: Chronica]
    #255440 - 07/26/09 12:23 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Post deleted by supersiege

Reason for deletion: duplicate



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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: supersiege]
    #255466 - 07/26/09 01:33 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

I'm not confused about figuring out how much electricity costs. I was only saying I've bought a light. Seeing as I'm all excited about putting it to use.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Buddy]
    #255467 - 07/26/09 01:34 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Why did you post the exact same post twice?


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Buddy]
    #255494 - 07/26/09 02:09 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

i dunno did it on its own i guess lol


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: supersiege]
    #255535 - 07/26/09 02:43 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Welcome to the growery supersiege!  HID lights are great.  it's like having a really good pressure cooker.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: lothario]
    #255695 - 07/26/09 08:29 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

lothario said:
What if I wanted to do a 12,000 watt grow? Are there any good ideas on generator usage? Would it be cost effective or even possible at all?



If i was going to do a 12KW operation i would take the extra precautions to make sure that you have a "mask" of some sort to not seem obvious to the power company.

Now im no expert on the meters they use...but I know that for $43,000, there is a 10KW solar panel setup, that, along with maybe a battery bank...would help reduce the apparent power consumption, as would switching to LED lights...where a 1000W equivalent only uses 300W. I know that some power companies' meters will spin backwards if you are generating more power than you are using. So if you spin it backwards during the day...then you can use power at night...so that the net usage is only about what your house normally uses without the lights.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #255707 - 07/26/09 08:53 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

hey glad to be here! yeah some times ill cook my breakfast in the hood its great!


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: supersiege]
    #266022 - 08/16/09 12:07 PM (10 years, 8 days ago)

I just reread this thread again.  Pretty good read. 

Quote:

coda said:


you should watch that video to see why it's beneficial to run a MH alongside an HPS.

UVB light ftw!!




But the guy in the video mentioned adding a UVB light (reptile light or sun tanning light), not combinning the two HID lights.  Does combining the two lights create UVB light?

The question that I have is more of a technical question that I could use some help with.  My circuits are all 20 amps max.  Right now I have one 400w MH/HPS running 18 hrs a day.  I also have a small rotating fan that runs 24/7 in addition to a deionizer that runs 24/7.  In addition to that I have a water pump and air pump that run for 30 min at a time 2x per day.  That's all i have plugged in for this grow now.  I am thinking that I am going to add another 400W light, when I flip to 12/12.  So then I will be running 800w 12 hours a day plus the other stuff.  I want to be careful not to exceed the max amperage and blow a circuit.  Additionally, I might add a carbon filter/scrubber for smell at some point.  Given that information does anyone have any ideas/thoughts/recommendations on the power consumption?  I don't know how many watts the smaller items draw out.  Hmm, now that I am thinking about it.  I think i can use one of the calculations provided earlier in this thread. 

W(watts)=A(amps)*V(voltage)

Let's estimate I have 1,000 watts here with everything added up, running 12 hours a day.

1,000 w = 120 volts * x (amps)
1,000 / 120 = x
x = 6.94 amps?!?! 

Did I do that right?


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #266026 - 08/16/09 12:17 PM (10 years, 8 days ago)

I just found this bit of info from a link that someone posted earlier in this thread.  That's a pretty cool website too.

Quote:


So, to rephrase your question, how many watts can a circuit deliver before it's overloaded? Most modern residential circuits are 15 or 20 amps, so we're looking at a max load of either (15A x 120V =) 1800 watts or (20A x 120V =) 2400 watts before the breaker trips. The breaker will be labeled either 15 or 20. I'm unfamiliar with old-style fuse-type circuits but I'm guessing they're also around 15 or 20 amps.

For continuous loads (on for more than three hours) the limit is 20% lower. So for 15-amp breaker, you can't draw more than 12 amps from the circuit for more than three hours, or 1440 watts (12A x 120V). And what do you know, the wattage of a huge window-unit AC or a large electric space heater is... 1440 watts. (source 1, source 2)




Soooo, I think that I am OK, with the situation posted above.  But please someone who has some knowledge if you could confirm this is correct, i would be most appreciative.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #266121 - 08/16/09 03:33 PM (10 years, 8 days ago)

with a 20A circuit you will be fine...if you are gonna be putting in 1500W worth of lighting though, I would try and split it up a little on different circuits...but 800W of lighting plus the accessory loads will not be a problem on a 20 amp circuit...

hope this helps
agmotes165


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Data]
    #266132 - 08/16/09 04:11 PM (10 years, 8 days ago)

thank you kind sir!


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Chronica]
    #280588 - 09/15/09 11:00 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Most if not all of that stuff is used on occasion. And it's not just the lights in my room. Fans, Pumps, Movers, Ac/Heaters, Filters, etc.. all play into a big overall cost. It is possible to provide the necessary light in a smaller cost fashion, but the technology is still very cutting edge in some cases and often an expensive or hard change for growers stuck in the convenience of HID lights. Like myself


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Ero42oH2o]
    #280818 - 09/15/09 07:27 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Does combining the two lights create UVB light?




No. MH lamps by themselves produce UVB light.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: coda]
    #280820 - 09/15/09 07:30 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Oh interesting.  Thanks!  Maybe I will replace one of my hps lights to mh.  I wish i had a separate room where i could have a control group and a test group.  I'd do mad experiments.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Hanky]
    #417209 - 05/13/10 01:30 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

not only for thoes purposes but i kno ppl around here that use hid security lights at night!!!give or take the space thay make 70-1000w security lights... thats what is making me think of buying a 400 wat...


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! (moved) [Re: Hanky]
    #419191 - 05/17/10 09:04 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

This thread was moved from Marijuana Cultivation.

Reason:
I need it :smile:


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Chronica]
    #433861 - 06/16/10 09:59 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

If you run a 1000W HPS for a flowering room 12 hours, and then another 400W MH 18 hours for veg, on top of computers, it ended up being a good $100 more in power until I got on the low income power plan.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: coda]
    #435994 - 06/22/10 12:30 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

coda said:
Quote:

Does combining the two lights create UVB light?




No. MH lamps by themselves produce UVB light.




UVA and UVB are just different frequencies of light. Like red light is a different frequency than blue. Combining two light sources together won't change this at all.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Data]
    #436620 - 06/23/10 03:11 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

agmotes165 said:
with a 20A circuit you will be fine...if you are gonna be putting in 1500W worth of lighting though, I would try and split it up a little on different circuits...but 800W of lighting plus the accessory loads will not be a problem on a 20 amp circuit...

hope this helps
agmotes165




Just be careful with that one. Some houses / apt's aren't very good with old wiring.


Edited by fungi (07/09/10 03:25 AM)


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: fungi]
    #436722 - 06/23/10 08:18 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

The only prob with the LED's the the light when compared is 1/3 as effective at plant growing as a equal amount of HID light.

Want cheap with less growth go with LED. Want to maximize your garden go HID.

There is a ton of info on this plus tons of side by side growth comparisons where I don't need to get into this.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Magash]
    #436733 - 06/23/10 09:17 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
The only prob with the LED's the the light when compared is 1/3 as effective at plant growing as a equal amount of HID light.




Wild statement. If you said flowering I would have let it go, but modern (1w+) LEDs already out-veg HIDs watt for watt.

As for flowering, everyone knows LEDs still trail HID's in watt for watt yield. The 1/3rd as effective statement is wildly inaccurate as you can't compare 30x 5w LEDs to 1,500 0.1w LEDs and then in turn compare them to a 150w HPS. It doesn't equate. And how does one begin to measure "effectiveness" anyways?

Quote:

Magash said:
Want cheap with less growth go with LED. Want to maximize your garden go HID.




First time I've ever heard someone describe LEDs as cheap in relation to HID.

If cost wasn't an issue I certainly wouldn't have HIDs in my garden.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #436754 - 06/23/10 09:53 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

LED lights are no way close to HID in growth vegetative or flowering. (unless  of course a mile of space between the nodes is better veg growth.)






LED lights were all the rage up here. Everybody was hooting about how great they are of course they are quoting the info the light makers are giving out. Problem is every person who was showing me these lights and saying how great they are are back to HID again.

Funny how every person who praises these things only use LED and have never done a side by side comparison of them cause when they do they go back to HID.

Quote:

The 1/3rd as effective statement is wildly inaccurate as you can't compare 30x 5w LEDs to 1,500 0.1w LEDs and then in turn compare them to a 150w HPS


No what you do is compare equal amount of lumen's from each type of light and you get 1/3 the growth rates.

Quote:

but modern (1w+) LEDs already out-veg HIDs watt for watt.


  Yeah if you believe everything your told. There is a reason the major bulb companies have done mass amounts of testing on LED lights as has NASA (who still use HID after they did their testing), Maximum Yield. Think of the money Hortilux could make from LED lights if all that was said about them was true.

I'm not saying LED won't be the next big thing but right now they aren't even close. I've seen countless numbers of these lights around here and two very good growers who bought all the crap and turned over their entire gardens at a rather massive cost to LED only to go back after the amount of money in yield lost was far more then the LED lights could save.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Magash]
    #436853 - 06/24/10 08:15 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
LED lights are no way close to HID in growth vegetative or flowering. (unless  of course a mile of space between the nodes is better veg growth.)




This is how I know you've never actually tried modern LEDs. The internode distance during veg is unquestionably shorter compared to HPS watt-for-watt. Blue spectrum produces tight internodes and short stocky plants during veg, red spectrum promotes stretchiness during veg. If you're stating a 600 watt HPS would keep closer internodes than a 600 watt blue/red LED I call total bullshit. I have at least 50 short, stocky vigorous plants vegged under LEDs that call bullshit too.

Quote:

The 1/3rd as effective statement is wildly inaccurate as you can't compare 30x 5w LEDs to 1,500 0.1w LEDs and then in turn compare them to a 150w HPS


Quote:

Magash said:No what you do is compare equal amount of lumen's from each type of light and you get 1/3 the growth rates.




You just stated that the growth rate seen under a light is based solely on its lumen output. Spectrum and PAR are laughing right now and so am I. You can't be serious.

LEDs are already outselling HIDs industry (think nursery) wide. They are searched for 2-3x as often on the internet and STILL sell for 2-3x the price watt for watt. Hortilux is known to have as much experience building LED units as I do, which is none. The entire nursery industry is diving into the LED pool head first, but since one overpriced bulb company isn't getting their feet wet that is somehow an indictment on LEDs? Pff.

Quote:

Magash said:Funny how every person who praises these things only use LED and have never done a side by side comparison of them cause when they do they go back to HID.




I've used 150w, 400w, 600w HIDs and 14w, 45w, 55w, and 120w LED fixtures. I've vegged my last 50+ plants under LEDs. The only lights I've gotten rid of are the 150w HPS and 400w HPS. The 600w HPS will be the next to go, its just not cost-effective yet.

There are ways to extoll the virtues of HID without further distorting the facts about LEDs.



Edited by Crusty Ass Bastard (06/24/10 08:38 AM)


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #436888 - 06/24/10 10:50 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

If you're stating a 600 watt HPS would keep closer internodes than a 600 watt blue/red LED I call total bullshit. I have at least 50 short, stocky vigorous plants vegged under LEDs that call bullshit too.





Really cause I have about a 1000 plants in veg that I'd be willing to bet smoke every one of those under the LEDs.

So great One person who has a small garden is praising LEDs. They may be great for growing roses or whatever is in your pic but for buds if they were all that everybody would be using them by now they are nothing new.

Like I said I've heard all this spectrum crap from LED users and when I went to see their gardens every one of them I have ever seen. When you live in area where on every block there are at least 7 houses that grow (this is not a exaggerated number) they all sing the same crap. The guys with the big led lights, the small ones, panels, UFOs, those trippy huge LEDs and every one of them is a joke. Simple as this when I see some LED gardens including yours that can outperform what I already have I'll be more then happy to jump on the bandwagon.

Show me some gardens that use LEDs and outperform what I can do with HID and I don't mean roses.

Once again there is a reason every major bulb company not just one are not selling them yet when there are millions to me made.

and for every professional nursery that is growing with LED lights there are 20 using HID.

so show me 1.5 pounds grown in a 4x4 space with LEDs. Show me 1 pound plants grown under LEDs cause I already have done better then that under HID. 

In fact forget the pound a plant thing just show me one of these
I wanna see this with dense buds from top to bottom.

Why don't Rez, Soma, Sensi Seeds ($25,000,000 US dollars worth of seeds sold annually), and so on. Gonna tell me these guys don't know the workings of the marijuana plant inside and out? Think of the money they could make esp in a country where the power prices are so high. Gonna tell me that not one of these guys are smart enough to use LED if it was that much better? Not a single one.

I really want to jump on the LED bandwagon (not a joke I really do want to) and I do think it will be the way of the future but for now results talk and bullshit numbers and pics of roses and all the fancy looking red and blue lights walk and show me gardens that are outdoing what I can do now.

(By the way Crusty I'm not trying to be a asshole the reason I say show me better then what I can do is it wouldn't be worth crossing over if they didn't do better)

This so reminds me of the big "you have to have added co2 no matter what" fad that happened in the early 90s. They had all these numbers, growth rates, sugar production levels in the plants, and so on and look at it now. 

So yeah my numbers are off I'm sure I never said I was going by the bullshit that the makers of the LEDs spew. I'm going by what I've seen with the naked eye and not on roses, lillys, venus fly traps, Mongolian pickled watermelons or whatever I want to see the results with buds. The guy who sings the praises of LEDs at ICMAG is at about half of what I'm doing now.

In fact half of those idiots are now saying that LED lights produce less crystals then HID the others are saying they produce more.

So show me, make me see the light, the LED light. :wink:


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Magash]
    #436890 - 06/24/10 11:00 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

By the way and I don't mean to age myself here but I've been under the light since 1985 and wanna know what the biggest change that has had the best results since then is? When air-cooled reflectors hit the market.

I gave up keeping track of spectrum numbers, statistics like that and most others. I go by the results I see around me and I'm lucky there with so many gardens to see plus I have 8 gardens myself (well not myself Mini-Maggie and the rest of the family as everybody else here already knows grow.

All I know is this if I'm using hortilux bulbs and I see a number of gardens using Sun Masters bulbs and growing my strains and getting beter results then I am I'm gonna try the fucking Sun Masters no matter what fancy numbers and info Hortilux has for me. :omgawesome:


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Magash]
    #436924 - 06/24/10 01:00 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I was correcting misinformation where I saw it.

You seem to have taken it personally, or as some kind of broad attack against HIDs, which it clearly was not.

A single 600w LED fixture can already provide a single patient with more medicine than they can smoke, year round. You're speaking against LEDs as a large scale cropper, which 99% of people on this forum and elsewhere are not. To assume everyone is in this to grow more weed than they need is a mistake in this medical age.


Edited by Crusty Ass Bastard (06/24/10 01:09 PM)


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #437844 - 06/25/10 09:08 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Ahhh....man there was some good info being traded here. I hope this didn't come off as personal just two guys on opposite sides of the debate team is the way I was looking at it.


You seem like a pretty cool guy to me crusty I hope people didn't think we were taking personal chops at each other. :wink:


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Magash]
    #437906 - 06/25/10 11:29 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah like I said in PM I don't know how that spiraled out of control so fast. No harm no foul though. If this conversation was in person its two guys shooting the breeze maybe busting eachother's chops a little but on the internet everything is taken so literally its blown out of proportion.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #438281 - 06/27/10 08:40 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

can we continue the debate though, because I think it is an extremely relevant topic for this forum (and thread).


Here's another thought (particularly for you Magash) -- Do you think that the decrease in yield from LEDs might be offset by the amount of money you'd save on electricity (both from lights, and not needing as much AC etc.)?  You might yield less, but if you're only spending 50% as much on electricity I feel like it might even out slightly. That said, I've never used LED's at all so I have no idea how much they would really save vs. yield but I think it's a point to consider


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #438544 - 06/27/10 04:14 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
can we continue the debate though, because I think it is an extremely relevant topic for this forum (and thread).






wonderful debate

because the LED lighting industry is growing fast
and like most know so is technology

:peace:


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Offlinelostinbq
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Ben18]
    #438549 - 06/27/10 04:25 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ben18 said:

wonderful debate

because the LED lighting industry is growing fast
and like most know so is technology

:peace:





screw technology!!1 wtf ever happened to the game pong???????
i miss that game..
yea but for real now i see it as what happened to the 8track and the cassette tapes.. soon hid will be a thing of the past... or at least made a lot cheaper when led's get better!!


--------------------
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Magash]
    #438684 - 06/27/10 10:54 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

ok


Edited by fungi (07/09/10 03:23 AM)


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Offlineyellownotepad
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: fungi]
    #441832 - 07/04/10 02:43 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

my buddy did a test in his little mini cab - put an LED panel on one side, and a 70w hps on the other side - i forget the wattage comparison but i think the LED was 15w?  whatever it was, the LED far outpaced the HPS with drastically less wattage.

not science, just an anecdote.  take it for what its worth


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OfflineBuddy
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: yellownotepad]
    #448333 - 07/19/10 11:26 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

It'd be cool if they developed a strain that could suffice off ambient light. That's my dream.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Hanky]
    #571964 - 07/13/11 09:50 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hanky said:
I'm constantly seeing posts where people are scared to get or run a HID light because they think it'll use massive amounts of power.

Compare a 400w or 600w light to the following items in your home.

Clothes dryer or electric oven...            5000w

Medium sized window mounted AC unit...        900w

Full ducted AC...                            3500w

Electric water heater...                    3800w

Toaster or microwave oven...                1500w

Coffee maker...                              900w

PC with 17inch CRT monitor...                240w

xbox 360...                                  165w




That's all well and good, but I'm running two 17W fluoros and 1 120mm case fan. (My grow room is 1.5' x 2.5' x 4')
I don't know what the fan uses, but I'm pretty sure I still come in under the 165 of the Xbox.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: 484]
    #580628 - 08/24/11 10:06 AM (8 years, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

484 said:
Quote:

Hanky said:
I'm constantly seeing posts where people are scared to get or run a HID light because they think it'll use massive amounts of power.

Compare a 400w or 600w light to the following items in your home.

Clothes dryer or electric oven...            5000w

Medium sized window mounted AC unit...        900w

Full ducted AC...                            3500w

Electric water heater...                    3800w

Toaster or microwave oven...                1500w

Coffee maker...                              900w

PC with 17inch CRT monitor...                240w

xbox 360...                                  165w




That's all well and good, but I'm running two 17W fluoros and 1 120mm case fan. (My grow room is 1.5' x 2.5' x 4')
I don't know what the fan uses, but I'm pretty sure I still come in under the 165 of the Xbox.




How much does it cfost you to run those fluoro's?? I am thinking bout getting a few for a future grow.

DO we have a price comparison of how much each light costs somewhere on the forum?

And idk bout all of you guys but 240w for a computer and monitor is no where near what my computer is using. Maybe back in the 90's but not now days. With my basic comp i have a 500w powersupply and using 90% of the output and a 19inch flatscreen. On my gaming rig i'm pulling nearly 1200w with a 2000w powersupply and 4 22inch LED monitors. I also have 2 imacs that draw nearly 450w. These computers run 24/7 and never shut down. So tacking on an extra 100$ a month is expensive...Even 50$ amonth. Its hard enough paying the bill with the setups i have. thats not including my servers:(


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: chowdan]
    #584076 - 09/06/11 05:34 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Wow this made me feel soo much safer. I would be shittin my pants if it wasnt for this site....and then I would yield 4g of regs, throw it in the garbage and get arrested >.<

And wait...if I only flower with hps im not getting best quality (as in no mh/blue light)?


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Dimo114]
    #584272 - 09/07/11 12:36 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

the spectrum in mh bulbs is more suited for vegetative growth than floral growth.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #584302 - 09/07/11 01:51 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks, gotchu:)
I got shook there for a minute. So basically, if I flower under hps only, I can still yield killer buds?

Quick followup question:
Im buying a 4ft 4 lamp t5 fixture for clones and moms only. Should all 4 be blue? Or 1 red in the middle? or 2/2?


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Dimo114]
    #584303 - 09/07/11 01:55 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

For cloning I use all blue to keep them short.
However a little experimenting to see what is best is always fun.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: KaptKid]
    #584306 - 09/07/11 02:19 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Im trying to get a sog right the first time, so no expiriments for me yet. But im fine with tall plants; I just read some shit about how mj needs at least a little of both spectrums at all stages. But as long as it's not really nesesery, im fine.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Dimo114]
    #584309 - 09/07/11 02:39 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

You will be fine on the clone part.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: dumbfounded1800]
    #710353 - 01/29/14 02:02 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

why has no one stated the obvious, your PC uses at least 400 watts and is running constantly


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: gman7104] * 1
    #710367 - 01/29/14 08:11 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Well you did see that the very first post in this thread mentioned that, right?


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Re: HID lights use a lot of power! [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #710970 - 02/01/14 08:39 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not going to read all the posts, but since were resurrecting old threads, did anyone mention about how HID lights draw about 10% more than they are rated, and the ballast also takes power?

Theres an illusion that the actual power required to light a grow bulb is what is written on the bulbs package, some take over two times the bulb wattage to run.  If you want to see how much your lamp actually uses to run you need to use a meter. Any 1000w running 12 hours a day is going to use more than 1.2kw-h's of electricity.


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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: kidaihuan]
    #744120 - 08/16/14 11:02 AM (5 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

kidaihuan said:
Those things don't take 400-1000w for 18 hours of the day, though.

Couple minutes or hours max for most of them.




A power spike increase alone will not tip off law enforcement(unless its massive).  However they probably do look at how long the power spikes last and will compare that to average MJ growing hours.  But usually power spikes alone are not enoguh to warrant a raid.  Many are just paranoid and/or ignorant.

Any LED setup will be well below any threshold for busts.  As well as any HPS/HID setup.  Generally speaking unless you live in an area with a massive LEO populace, you will not be bothered unless you do something stupid.  Like posting Facebook statuses of what you do or draw attention to yourself.


Edited by Guy Fawkes (08/16/14 11:16 AM)


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