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OfflineSirius
Saturn Ascends


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 3 years, 3 days
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: dumbfounded1800]
    #85252 - 07/16/08 02:24 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

dumbfounded1800 said:
99% of the time of all busts from a power high electric bill are busting people with 80-150 plants.




How many busts do you know of that were due to the people having a high electric bill? I've certainly heard of a lot that resulted from people doing large-scale grows and stealing electricity, but never busted simply because their power bill was high.... :shrug:


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Invisibledumbfounded1800


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 182
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Sirius]
    #85261 - 07/16/08 02:36 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sirius said:
Quote:

dumbfounded1800 said:
99% of the time of all busts from a power high electric bill are busting people with 80-150 plants.




How many busts do you know of that were due to the people having a high electric bill? I've certainly heard of a lot that resulted from people doing large-scale grows and stealing electricity, but never busted simply because their power bill was high.... :shrug:




Fluxuations. Meaning it was $100 to $8....then goes up to $400 to $50


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OfflineSirius
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: dumbfounded1800]
    #85273 - 07/16/08 02:55 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, but what I'm asking is how many busts do you know of where that was the cause of the bust?


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Invisiblecoda


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,734
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Sirius]
    #85403 - 07/16/08 05:38 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Fluxuations. Meaning it was $100 to $8....then goes up to $400 to $50




that's not enough to do anything.  The majority of busts come from people stealing power.  Why would a power company care how much your bill is if you're paying for it?


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Invisibledumbfounded1800


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 182
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: coda]
    #85412 - 07/16/08 05:44 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sirius said:
Yes, but what I'm asking is how many busts do you know of where that was the cause of the bust?




I think I was exagerating a bit too much there. It is common though.

Quote:

coda said:
Quote:

Fluxuations. Meaning it was $100 to $8....then goes up to $400 to $50




that's not enough to do anything.  The majority of busts come from people stealing power.  Why would a power company care how much your bill is if you're paying for it?





All they have to do is look at your past bill and see that your reg bills were in the 100's and now all of a sudden there fluctuating down to $40-50...Indicating that you MAY be stealing electricity which isn't always the case. Most of the time people are just saving electricity bills.


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Invisiblecoda


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,734
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: dumbfounded1800]
    #85427 - 07/16/08 05:58 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

no, what you said makes no sense.  That won't indicate you're stealing power.  What would indicate you were stealing power would be a high amount of wattage coming from your house while it's only registering a small amount, but even then i don't think that's possible.  Simply because when you steal power, you re-wire your main breaker outside the house to bypass the meter.  In that case they would witness a high usage of power in your area with nothing showing on the meters.

Simply fluctuating up and down is not substantial evidence.  My bills routinely fluctuate from 160 to 80 dollars.  I've gone as high as 200 down to 50 bucks.  This was all dependent on how long and how much i was running my AC unit.


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MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.


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Invisibledumbfounded1800


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 182
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: coda]
    #85444 - 07/16/08 06:13 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

coda said:
no, what you said makes no sense.  That won't indicate you're stealing power.  What would indicate you were stealing power would be a high amount of wattage coming from your house while it's only registering a small amount, but even then i don't think that's possible.  Simply because when you steal power, you re-wire your main breaker outside the house to bypass the meter.  In that case they would witness a high usage of power in your area with nothing showing on the meters.




Yeah, your right. I don't want to use the I'm too stoned excuse but I'll learn now to double check what I'm actually writing.


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Invisiblecoda


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,734
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: dumbfounded1800]
    #85447 - 07/16/08 06:16 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

:laugh:

It's cool man, it's a very common misconception that you can get busted simply based on your power usage alone.  If that was the main reason a cop got a warrant to search your house, a public defender would be able to get the evidence suppressed easily.  It's no where near probable cause for a search.


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Offlinedurban_poison
Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 17
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: coda]
    #156173 - 12/05/08 04:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

c.  Power usage

            Examination of power consumption records has become a common investigative tool since indoor cultivation relies heavily on electricity. If your use is high, the cops say that’s probable cause.  If your use is low, cops say that’s probable cause, too, because you must be stealing the power.  The problem is, if you steal the power, not only are you a thief, but power company employees easily detect it. In the course of lawfully searching for the power tap they will bring police with them and whatever you’re growing will be discovered.  The solution to this dilemma is simple:  don’t be greedy.  One or two lights are really all you need unless you are growing for the Green Cross.

            If you find yourself in court with this issue, argue that above average or increased power use has too many legitimate explanations to be considered probable cause.  See, e.g., State v. McPherson,  698 P.2d 563 (Wash. App. 1984).  Compare, State v. Donahue, 762 P.2d 1022 (Or.App. 1988) (accepting increased power use as having some significance where the odor of marijuana was also present).

            An attorney can minimize the probable cause value of power usage information with statistics from the power company showing what is average and what the range of power consumption is, and by employing an expert[7] to advise the court of the many other innocent explanations for the high power consumption.

            In addition to questions regarding their probative value, police seizure of power records may raise constitutional and statutory issues.  In Washington state, the Privacy Act prohibits seizure without a written statement of "articulable suspicion."  Wash.Rev.Code ' 42.17.314 (codifying In re Rosier, 717 P.2d 1353 (Wash. 1986); State v. Maxwell, 791 P.2d 332 (Wash. 1990), (applying the statutory protection to the search warrant process, while refusing to rule on the constitutional issue); State v. Butterworth, 737 P.2d 1297 (Wash. 1987) (specifically declining to rule on the Constitutional issue).  There is an argument that such a seizure of power records is unconstitutional because it violates individual privacy rights.  In an age where computer technology makes every small bit of recorded information available almost instantaneously, realistic protection of the fragile right of privacy requires that prior judicial approval precede search or seizure of information regarding matters occurring within a citizen's home.  The seizure of power records is for the purpose of securing evidence of a crime; the evidence is of a nature which reflects the private activities of a citizen within his or her home, and about which the citizen has a reasonable expectation of privacy.  See, Hearst Corp. v. Hoppe, 580 P.2d 246 (Wash. 1978).  In Hearst, the Washington Supreme Court observed, (in a non-criminal context):

            Every individual has some phases of his life and his activities and some facts about himself that he does not expose to the public eye, but keeps entirely to himself or at most reveals only to his family or to close personal friends.  Sexual relations, for example are normally entirely private matters, as are family quarrels, many unpleasant or disgraceful or humiliating illnesses, most intimate personal letters, most details of a man's life in his home, and some of his history that he would rather forget."  (Emphasis supplied).

 

580 P.2d at 253, quoting, Restatement (Second) of Torts, '652 D at 383 (1977).

            An interesting side issue here comes from the fact that pot growers often divert (steal) power to keep high power bills from alerting the authorities.  Where a diversion is suspected, power companies will install "comparator" meters, which show that not all power being used by a residence is flowing through the meter.  Where this takes place, argue first that the comparator meter requires a warrant, and second, that probable cause to search for power theft does not constitute probable cause to search the entire house, since power is stolen outside the house, before the wires reach the meter.



a news link you guys might want  to check out:
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=124786&catid=3

i will post a few more utility related incidents soon. it is considered very uncommon but it does happen and generally because of a "tipster".


Edited by durban_poison (12/05/08 04:40 PM)


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OfflineKalcu
Registered: 01/02/09
Posts: 8
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: durban_poison]
    #174676 - 01/03/09 03:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I know this thread is a little old, but really the whole issue with power is something the cops can do without a warrant.

They can check your meter without a warrant or even get a warrant to look at your power bill.  They aren't even going to look at your usage to see if you are growing weed; they already believe that since they are checking you out under such a belief.  What they are looking for is that you are not in any way growing weed drawing power.

People have been busted after buying lights and just a fraction of an increase in power usage.  So the best bet is if you buy your lights and it's not smuggled to your grow like other illegal things; then wait awhile to have things cool down.

Don't buy a HID and plug it in right away with pot plants underneath it; so if you do get a warrant served they don't find anything illegal.

I know it sucks, some huge grows get away with it for a long time then someone with a 250 watter gets popped after ordering from one of the companies the DEA bugs the hell out of to get shipping records.  Then they contact the local PD and they check out the electric bill, of course using a grow light doesn't mean anything illegal but they do think it does when it isn't a 50-80 year old person with no criminal record.


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
Free yourself from yourself
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,041
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Kalcu]
    #175543 - 01/05/09 02:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Ehh, i don't buy that arguement.  Before law enforcement would look into your power usage they would need probable cause or is it reasonable suspicion.  I get those two mixed up.  They aren't just requesting everyone's power record and analyzing them all to see if any of them match what an indoor cultivators usage would be.  I think the best bet to not get busted is to keep your lips sealed.  You say people have been busted after buying lights and having a fraction of an increase in their overall usage but I would guess that at least 90% of those busted are busted for other reasons.  Not solely for their energy consumption, more like they were bragging to a friend who got jealous or a crazy bitch ex girlfriend ratting you out.  That's my 2 cents.  Welcome to the Growery!  We encourage an open exchange of ideas as you'll see.


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Edited by FurrowedBrow (01/05/09 03:08 PM)


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OfflineJMR


Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 45
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #175586 - 01/05/09 04:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'll have to agree with Furrowedbrow on this one. I don't think that the cops are going to be watching every store that sells and hps system....cause these lights are not just for growing pot. It would be to much of a run around for them. If your doing a relatively small grow with one light then the main factors to not getting busted would be to keep your mouth shut eye open and keep the smell down. One best ways I have found not to get busted it to observe what is going on around and follow your gut.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Kalcu]
    #175943 - 01/06/09 09:58 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

how many people have been busted for 250watt grows?

That's like less power consumption than my laptop


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Offlinelopan
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Registered: 09/24/08
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: captain.koons]
    #176312 - 01/06/09 07:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Not entirely on topic with the conversation (though on topic with the subject) but my 600w hps has brought my power bill up $140 / month.  :thumbdown:


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: lopan]
    #176318 - 01/06/09 08:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

600w is costing you 140$ a month? That sounds like A LOT..... that sounds like 3times as much as you should pay.


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Offlinelopan
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: captain.koons]
    #177015 - 01/07/09 10:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I thought so as well - but the increase has been pretty consistent.  Mind you, that was during the 24 hour light cycle.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Registered: 06/25/08
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: lopan]
    #177027 - 01/07/09 10:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

still dude

it shouldn't cost $140 even if you lived in like guam or some other lame area where they charge silly amounts of money for some electricity. do you have the cost per kw hour your electricity company charges you?


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Offlinelopan
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: captain.koons]
    #177070 - 01/08/09 12:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

12.24cent USD.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: lopan]
    #177075 - 01/08/09 01:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

600w 24/0 = 14.4 kw hours a day * 30 days in a month = 432 kw hours *.1224 (for teh moneyz) = 52.88$ for 1month of 24hour use off a 600w hps at 12.24cent USD per kw hour

another case solved!


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Offlinelopan
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: captain.koons]
    #177085 - 01/08/09 04:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Hmmmmm.
So now I need to track down the other $90 in additional power usage. ><
Thanks Koons.


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