Home | Community | Message Board


High Mountain Gold Compost
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Growery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
InvisibleInverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star Flag
Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights!
    #315811 - 11/15/09 07:56 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I was curious how much lighting was necessary for my grow box, so I decided to google it.  Well eventually I stumbled upon this chart, which seemed to coincide with all of the information I just learned while browsing all over the place.

It's a very handy chart to have around as it pools a lot of good information, presented in a way basically anyone can understand.

If you are in the process of starting a grow, READ THIS FIRST!

While it is easy to fall short on lighting, it's tough to have too much (some say never enough!) and you should try to at least keep your wattages higher than the recommended footprint of your growing area.

For example:  If you are beginning a smaller cabinet/micro grow, you could build your box 4 sq. ft. (2' x 2') and should purchase either a 150w HPS (flowering + vegetative), or 175w MH (Red Spectrum/MS version if possible) preferably only for vegetative growth but MH can be used for flowering as well. 

It's not an EXACT guide to follow but a very good and accurate one that I would use myself.  It's not like changing your dimensions a couple of inches will totally throw off your chances of success, but conditions will be optimal for the plants w/ those guidelines.

This should be stickied for everyone to see easily, as it is a good quick source of valuable information.

EDIT- FUCK OFF AND POST THE RIGHT NUMBERS.  I PULLED THE INFO FROM OTHER SOURCES SO :finger:

:lol: Last time I try to help.  Good job Growery :nonono:

Edited by Inverted (11/16/09 04:03 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTriptonic
Male


Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc: Flag
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Inverted]
    #315851 - 11/15/09 10:15 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinehisheater
trigger man
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/03/09
Posts: 61
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Triptonic]
    #315950 - 11/15/09 02:18 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

thanks man that's really helpful. I've been looking  to buy a HID light but was waiting to make sure I got the one I needed. This should help.
thanks again


--------------------
They call them fingers but I never see them fing... Oh wait, there they go.
-----------------------------------------------
Doo Yoo Hookah???

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
cannoisseur
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: hisheater]
    #316190 - 11/15/09 08:20 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

going by the 50W/sq foot rule that chart is extremely low.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMagashM
The Feminizer
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Inverted]
    #316250 - 11/15/09 09:05 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

This chart is way way way off. Do not follow this chart at all. Off by at least 50%. This will not work for cannabis.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star Flag
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Magash]
    #316302 - 11/15/09 09:42 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Show me proof otherwise then!

For my grow, a 150 Watt is more than enough for me to get a successful harvest... All of those numbers matched up with every other source I found...

Even all of the HID companies gave me VERY similar numbers...

Make your own spreadsheet and correct the numbers if they are wrong!

I'm sorry i'm not mad, I don't know the information myself, and that is why I thought this was correct, especially since so many of the dimensions matched up w/ other sources I browsed.

Please provide the accurate information so that I can adjust the numbers and edit my OP...

Thanks Magash and H_B :yesnod:


--------------------
Don't criticize what you can't understand

Edited by Inverted (11/15/09 10:32 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
Pheno Hunting


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 786
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Inverted]
    #316332 - 11/15/09 10:45 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

A 600w HPS will not cover 7x7, more like 4x4 maximum. These numbers are outdated and/or inaccurate, check out the charts in Cervante's Medical Grower's Bible for example.


--------------------
|

Skunk Train (Most Recent) | G13 Haze (Completed) | G13 Haze (Completed) | G13 Haze (Completed)
Cinnibis Rolls | Indoor Peppers

"The secret of improved plant breeding, apart from scientific knowledge, is love." -Luther Burbank

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMagashM
The Feminizer
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Inverted]
    #316353 - 11/16/09 12:40 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Nah, I'm gonna kick back and let ya use the chart. Just do me a favor and post pics of the results. :thumbup:

50watts per sq  foot is what ya want. Your not growing violets or tomatoes.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
cannoisseur
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Inverted]
    #316422 - 11/16/09 08:43 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

well how about an example? I've got a 4x4 area with a 600W HPS, and after my harvest I'm considering adding ANOTHER 600W to my room because I think I can get even more out of my plants.

a 4x4 is almost half the size of what that chart claims is the right size for 600W, but I still feel it's underpowered


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDr. SiekadellykM
Question Everything!
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 9,365
Loc: Ketamine Flag
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #316425 - 11/16/09 08:54 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

yeah I have used 1000W HID lights in a 4x2' area about a foot or two away...

and my state is like 14cents per KWH i think


--------------------
The Kratom Report...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offline81renaissance
Coachella '13 KKOTY
Male


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,182
Loc: State of Mind Flag
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Dr. Siekadellyk]
    #316483 - 11/16/09 12:38 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I'm rockin' 2000W in a 4x4 space.  Guaranteed with the same genetics, I'd see a bigger yield than Harry's grow based on LIGHT ALONE.


--------------------
"So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut


BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
cannoisseur
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: 81renaissance]
    #316489 - 11/16/09 12:43 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Agreed absolutely. if you and I had EVERYTHING exactly the same except for our lights, you would see an increase in harvest size of 50% or more. light is by far the #1 limiting resource when it comes to growing indoors, because fresh air and nutes are easy to provide. cannabis is an extremely efficient photosynthetic organism as well (being a C4 Eudicot), so the more light, the better.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star Flag
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #316538 - 11/16/09 01:42 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Well i'm only using a 20" x 20" space with about 30,000 Lumens so when they finish you guys can see.

I never said i'd follow that chart.  I have my own growing guidlines that I follow.


--------------------
Don't criticize what you can't understand

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSmOakland
Now with Grow!
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/31/09
Posts: 2,662
Loc: Oaktown to NOLA
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Inverted]
    #316539 - 11/16/09 01:49 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I'm no Magash in experience but I would not really trust a chart that says to use 150 watts for 4 square feet and 250 for 9 square feet.  That seems like some b.s.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTriptonic
Male


Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc: Flag
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Inverted]
    #316541 - 11/16/09 01:51 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Inverted said:
Well i'm only using a 20" x 20" space with about 30,000 Lumens so when they finish you guys can see.

I never said i'd follow that chart.  I have my own growing guidlines that I follow.




Quote:

Inverted said:It's not an EXACT guide to follow but a very good and accurate one that I would use myself.  It's not like changing your dimensions a couple of inches will totally throw off your chances of success, but conditions will be optimal for the plants w/ those guidelines




Yes, yes you did :lol:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star Flag
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Triptonic]
    #316649 - 11/16/09 04:01 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Ok well I should have specified, i'd only use the guide for a 2 x 2 foot area...  I don't ever plan to use anything larger than a 400 watt and I don't have to worry about space so most of it is irrelevant to me.  I live in a house with a full basement...

I generally don't go looking for information on the net, although I used to for years.

Now I just base my judgements on past experiences and how the plants look and react to what I do.  lol i've grown buds better than anyone i've ever met so whatever, find your own information if you guys already know it.


--------------------
Don't criticize what you can't understand

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTriptonic
Male


Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc: Flag
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Inverted]
    #316679 - 11/16/09 04:28 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Touchy touchy Inverted calm down jeez.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMagashM
The Feminizer
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Triptonic]
    #317018 - 11/16/09 09:34 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, everybody agreed that the chart is fucked so I can junk this thread?


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSmOakland
Now with Grow!
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/31/09
Posts: 2,662
Loc: Oaktown to NOLA
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Magash]
    #317022 - 11/16/09 09:48 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Junk it junk it!!!!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
cannoisseur
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Magash]
    #317023 - 11/16/09 09:50 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, inverted even deleted the original chart anyway, so now this thread is really nothing but a bunch of bickering.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStonethM
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 24,971
Loc: No where ville, USA Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #317024 - 11/16/09 09:54 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
yeah, inverted even deleted the original chart anyway, so now this thread is really nothing but a bunch of bickering.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star Flag
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Stoneth]
    #317048 - 11/16/09 11:19 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Well actually dont junk it, I plan to re-use the text and if someone would be nice enough to help me out with the correct numbers (? x ? spaces) I can rewrite the chart.  I find it would be very valuable if it were just to be corrected?

Or do you guys not care and just fuck me...?


--------------------
Don't criticize what you can't understand

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
cannoisseur
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Inverted]
    #317058 - 11/16/09 11:34 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Dude inverted simmer down man, we're all friends here. I think if we settled in on good numbers (possibly with calculations with w/ft2 and lumens/ft2 it could be wonderful in helping people choose their light


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star Flag
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #317069 - 11/16/09 11:53 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I'm totally marinated man you just can't decipher the tone in my voice over the internet.  I just wanted people to help me get the right numbers, instead of jumping all over me for posting the wrong ones, even though I just pulled them from another source that's all...

So how many watts per square foot is MINIMAL, AVERAGE, and SUPERIOR?

Would you say maybe 75w/ft2 for Minimal, 100w/ft2 for Average, and 125w/ft2 for the Superior wattages to use in the ratio?

I think that sounds reasonable but maybe magash has something to add...?


--------------------
Don't criticize what you can't understand

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMagashM
The Feminizer
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #317075 - 11/17/09 12:01 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

1000Watt 4x4

600watt 3x3

400watt 2.5x2.5

250watt 2x2

This is the best use of these bulbs for cannabis.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star Flag
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Magash]
    #317079 - 11/17/09 12:07 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Well I wanna look at 3 different options per 2x2 or 3x3 or whatever, you know what i'm saying!

So is 1000 Watts gonna be the Low, Middle, or High end ratio for a 4x4 area?

I've seen many people use 4.5 or even 6'2 for this much wattage.

Coming from you I'd say that's at least middle, but probably on the high side (the best side :wink:)


--------------------
Don't criticize what you can't understand

Edited by Inverted (11/17/09 12:08 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star Flag
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Inverted]
    #317084 - 11/17/09 12:21 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Actually I have room for 2 wattage ranges per size so I want a Minimal (75w/sq ft?) and Recommended (100+w/ft2)?  Sound good?

Can anyone link me to information or post information on the price per 24 hr day to run each wattage ballast/light?


--------------------
Don't criticize what you can't understand

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMagashM
The Feminizer
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Inverted]
    #317094 - 11/17/09 12:56 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Well look at what is being produced at the edges of a 6x6 garden with one 1000watt light. The stuff is good for bubble hash but is airy crap.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAzyle00
Captain Canada
Male


Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 240
Loc: CANADA
Last seen: 14 years, 30 days
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Magash]
    #317144 - 11/17/09 08:46 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Kill the thread and save the young ones!  Kill all the males too!


--------------------
"I never post unless high.  Well that does explain a lot then."

"The best part about going to sleep each night is knowing that my plants will have grown more when I wake up in the morning."

"I smoked it then I became so tired that my eyes shut down automatically without my consent" - My Chinese GF, Oct 23, 2009 :smile:

Starting your first GROW, things you should ask/answer before you do

Current Grow Journal

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star Flag
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Azyle00]
    #317153 - 11/17/09 09:14 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not done editing the information yet, the thread will be deleted when I request it to be.


--------------------
Don't criticize what you can't understand

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAzyle00
Captain Canada
Male


Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 240
Loc: CANADA
Last seen: 14 years, 30 days
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Inverted]
    #317185 - 11/17/09 09:39 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Hmm also, wattage != Lumens.  Instead of wattage per square foot, you need to be working on Lumens per square foot, as compared when you look at Flo lights, 40 watt T12 < 32 watt T8 as far as Lumens go and even more so with T5 etc.

My general knowledge leads me to believe a 600 watt HPS is the most cost effective HPS given the wattage to Lumens per square foot ratio.  However, I use 1000 watt HPS simply because I do not care as much about efficiency as I do about raw Lumen power.  My area is 4 X 6, but really I only use a 4 X 4 portion, 1 plant per square foot, so 16 maximum.  I measured the realistic Lumens at 24 inches and read in the 2000-3000 Lumens range, so I am pretty confident that maintaining the tops at 12-14 inch is allowing the plants to get blasted properly with Lumens.


--------------------
"I never post unless high.  Well that does explain a lot then."

"The best part about going to sleep each night is knowing that my plants will have grown more when I wake up in the morning."

"I smoked it then I became so tired that my eyes shut down automatically without my consent" - My Chinese GF, Oct 23, 2009 :smile:

Starting your first GROW, things you should ask/answer before you do

Current Grow Journal

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
cannoisseur
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Azyle00]
    #317376 - 11/17/09 02:27 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Lumen is short for luminous flux which explicitly measures the amount of light produced by a bulb that contributes to human vision. plants consume what is known as PAR (photosynthetically active radiation) which has a slight overlap with, but is considerably different, than lumens.
Wattage is the most efficient measure of light power for horticultural purposes because it measures the total quantity of energy consumed by the bulb. I can say from personal experience that 250W of cfl's appear much brighter to my eyes than 250W of HPS, but plants grown under the cfl array were much slower in veg and yielded less than they could have.

lumens also doesn't account for the intensity of the light, which is what penetrates cell walls, membranes and cytoplasm before exciting molecules in the Chloroplasts to initiate photosynthesis.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRenorCordic
Bio-Ranger
Male

Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 72
Loc: Ancient China
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Read This Before Buying Your HID Lights! [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #317491 - 11/17/09 05:34 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

You're so smart Harry!  :laugh:


--------------------
Come with us now on a journey through time and space.
To the world of the Mighty Boosh!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* HID lights DON'T use a lot of power!
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
Hanky 118,854 120 08/16/14 11:02 AM
by Guy Fawkes
* double end fixtures v.s hid lighting? Mrshroom 1,377 4 03/31/15 11:41 AM
by thedrake
* Cooltubed HID Light.
( 1 2 all )
critik 5,472 23 11/14/10 01:27 PM
by critik
* New in box: 23 year old HID lighting equipment. Safe to use? HipsterDoofus 813 3 05/01/13 07:34 AM
by hem overdere
* Can i put my seeds from germination to direct HID light? PsychedelicScience 1,043 4 01/12/13 03:23 PM
by 81renaissance
* HID lighting question Baron_Samedi 1,179 8 03/28/16 03:45 PM
by Baron_Samedi
* 1000wt hps/HID light 805stoner 868 1 01/19/10 01:10 AM
by TheShroomJew23
* About Lights Picklez 5,301 1 07/04/09 12:30 AM
by captainmurphie

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: FurrowedBrow, Magash, Data, Dr. Siekadellyk, phychotron
9,674 topic views. 1 members, 189 guests and 128 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.048 seconds spending 0.011 seconds on 14 queries.