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Invisiblecaptain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
Trusted Cultivator
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: lopan]
    #177086 - 01/08/09 06:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I am here to serve my people!


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Offlinefreepain

Registered: 05/11/08
Posts: 197
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: coda]
    #178567 - 01/10/09 03:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

coda said:


you should watch that video to see why it's beneficial to run a MH alongside an HPS.

UVB light ftw!!




This guy just gets more and more stoned threw the whole thing and just starts being like yeahh man at the end its hilarious


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OfflineMr. Hands
Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 89
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Hanky]
    #184656 - 01/19/09 09:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I respectfully disagree.

I remember reading a story about how in California a house was raided because of high electricity usage.  This is how it went: 

1.  The power company saw this house had a very high bill.
2.  Power company notifies cops.
3.  Cops do a garbage pull on the house (totally legal in most states).
4.  Nothing was found in the garbage but a dog did get a "hit" on the garbage.  In a lot of states that is enough to get a search warrant.
5.  Cops raid house and find that the reason the electricity bill was so high is because there were like five kids in the house all with their own tv's, video game consoles, etc..
6.  Cops have no idea why the police dog "Office Scruffs" gave a false positive.
7.  The idiot cops should have hooked up to the line to see if they were running HID lights but they didn't.

What is the moral of the story here?  A lot of power companies cooperate with the police in reporting suspicious electricity usage.  The police will then pull your garbage or hook up to your line to see what you're running.  If they see a HPS turning on everyday like clockwork then they will start to sniff around even more.  They will look up your financial records.  If you are making $20,000 a year but spending $50,000 a year then that is one more piece of evidence they will use against you.

Now, I'm not trying to make you guys paranoid.  Running a small little Metal Halide in your vegetative room and a 400W-600W HPS in your budding room is not going to capture anybody's attention.  But, if your bill goes from $40 a month to $200 a month or some shit like that....beware.  You never can be too careful.

My advice to all growers out there:

1.  Establish a high electricity usage the second you put a meter in your name.  You can always claim that you have three roommates or something like that.  Try not to have massive fluctuations.
2.  NEVER throw away anything in your garbage.  Even if you touch some weed and then touch a piece of paper DO NOT put that paper in the garbage as it has marijuana residue on it.  Have a "bad" garbage that contains anything questionable and dispose of it far from your house.  Also, wash your hands constantly.
3.  Use your official money you earn from your job for traceable stuff.  Pay your utility bills, rent, car payment etc.. with your paycheck.  Pay for untraceable stuff (food, gas in your car, toys, etc..) with your drug proceeds.


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OfflineAKSE


Registered: 08/13/08
Posts: 287
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #185055 - 01/19/09 11:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Funny name Mr. Hands.  I'm assuming it's named after the video?:crazy2:

However, there is no way for police or electric companies to "hook up" to your line and see what type of appliances you're running in your house.  There is no way they are ever going to know that you have a HPS in your house and when it is turning on and off. 

pure hogwash!:whack:


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
Trusted Cultivator
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: AKSE]
    #185097 - 01/20/09 12:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know how or if they can tell if a HID light is running I'd assume it's impossible or impracticle(not done). THey can monitor spikes in your eletricity consumption though like every 12 hours your use goes up by 1200watts and 12 hours later that use goes down to normal.


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OfflineMr. Hands
Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 89
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: AKSE]
    #185236 - 01/20/09 05:08 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AKSE said:
However, there is no way for police or electric companies to "hook up" to your line and see what type of appliances you're running in your house.  There is no way they are ever going to know that you have a HPS in your house and when it is turning on and off. 




Untrue.  I have taken extensive electronics classes at the university level.  I'm also an electrician.

Different electrical components have different electricity usage characteristics which can easily be measured.  For example, motors have a large spike which quickly evens out after turning on.  Most of your appliances are basically motors and their usage patterns are easily identifiable.  If examining a line with the appropriate device it is possible to see what type of devices are running. 

It is also possible for the police to examine electricity usage levels during certain time periods.  If your house draws a normal amount and then like clockwork an additional 1000 Watts turns on from 12 noon to 12 midnight then that can be detected.

However, let me say that the vast majority of grows are not found out because of high electric use.  They are found out because someone snitched.  Just keep it small and you won't have problems.  No power company is going to notice one or two 400 watters.  It's when you have like a 4000 watt budding room or some shit like that when I'd be paranoid.

Also, if you are pushing it with your usage (over $150 a month bill for a regular house) there are ways to try to lower it a bit.  Be an electricity miser.  Have your veg room be only on for 18 hours instead of an unnecessary 24 hours.  Have a cool white flourescent in your veg room that is only a few watts instead of an unnecessary 400 watt Metal Halide.  By the way, having a tiny veg room is actually a great way to save electricity, because you barely need any wattage to keep a mother alive and to root some clones.


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Invisibleperosiste
I controls the spice
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 2,193
Loc: I controls the universe
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #185238 - 01/20/09 05:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

A few years ago when my buddies house recieved a knock on the door about high electric usage he explained it by showing a house full of electronics that ran constantly.

In a house with 4 guys each one had a fairly good sized tv a game system most had more than one computer. not to mention all the other crap that was on constantly.

what ended up happening was that when the lights were one everything else got turned off.  yeah there were changes in the demand, but nothing significant.


One thing that I would reccomend is if you have a lot of lights don't turn them all on at the same time.  Also putting some of your more power hungry electronics on a power strip and killing them while you run the lights might be a decent idea.


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[quote]hemostats said:
like i said before

quite simply, you are a nuisance while i am a smooth criminal.[/quote]







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Invisiblecaptain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
Trusted Cultivator
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #185278 - 01/20/09 10:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

power relays and flip flops would change that though?


Quote:

Mr. Hands said:
Quote:

AKSE said:
However, there is no way for police or electric companies to "hook up" to your line and see what type of appliances you're running in your house.  There is no way they are ever going to know that you have a HPS in your house and when it is turning on and off. 




Untrue.  I have taken extensive electronics classes at the university level.  I'm also an electrician.

Different electrical components have different electricity usage characteristics which can easily be measured.  For example, motors have a large spike which quickly evens out after turning on.  Most of your appliances are basically motors and their usage patterns are easily identifiable.  If examining a line with the appropriate device it is possible to see what type of devices are running. 

It is also possible for the police to examine electricity usage levels during certain time periods.  If your house draws a normal amount and then like clockwork an additional 1000 Watts turns on from 12 noon to 12 midnight then that can be detected.

However, let me say that the vast majority of grows are not found out because of high electric use.  They are found out because someone snitched.  Just keep it small and you won't have problems.  No power company is going to notice one or two 400 watters.  It's when you have like a 4000 watt budding room or some shit like that when I'd be paranoid.

Also, if you are pushing it with your usage (over $150 a month bill for a regular house) there are ways to try to lower it a bit.  Be an electricity miser.  Have your veg room be only on for 18 hours instead of an unnecessary 24 hours.  Have a cool white flourescent in your veg room that is only a few watts instead of an unnecessary 400 watt Metal Halide.  By the way, having a tiny veg room is actually a great way to save electricity, because you barely need any wattage to keep a mother alive and to root some clones.




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OfflineMr. Hands
Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 89
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: captain.koons]
    #185595 - 01/20/09 07:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't understand what you are asking.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
Trusted Cultivator
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #185598 - 01/20/09 07:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Flip flops is a device that is used to run a ballast 24hours a day but 12hours on 1 set of lights and 12hours on another set of lights.

Power relays (i'm fairly certain that's the correct name for them) are devices you run all of your electrical trough to prevent power spikes and electrical fires from drawing too many amps? I'm not 100% sure i don't use either of these.


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OfflineMr. Hands
Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 89
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: captain.koons]
    #185602 - 01/20/09 08:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

captain.koons said:
Flip flops is a device that is used to run a ballast 24hours a day but 12hours on 1 set of lights and 12hours on another set of lights.




That sounds like the same thing as running lights 24/7.  This can somewhat "cover up" the 12 hour on/12 hour off cycle if you do it right.  But, the authorities can still determine if you are running HID lights if they so desire.  Just be smart...don't run a massive grow-op with 12 1000 watt HPS's.

Quote:

captain.koons said:
Power relays (i'm fairly certain that's the correct name for them) are devices you run all of your electrical trough to prevent power spikes and electrical fires from drawing too many amps? I'm not 100% sure i don't use either of these.




A relay is an electrical device that closes or opens another circuit based on whether or not power is applied to one side.  In other words, you apply power to one side and it causes the other side to activate.  Maybe you are referring to a "line conditioner"?  I have heard of growers using these to attempt to mask their electrical signals.  But, any experienced technician would be able to make readings and determine what was going on.


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OfflineAKSE


Registered: 08/13/08
Posts: 287
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #185646 - 01/20/09 10:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Different electrical components have different electricity usage characteristics which can easily be measured.  For example, motors have a large spike which quickly evens out after turning on.  Most of your appliances are basically motors and their usage patterns are easily identifiable.  If examining a line with the appropriate device it is possible to see what type of devices are running.

You had originally said that they can "hook-up" to you line and find out what device you are using.  You made it seem as if they had some sort of special device they used to hook up to the line, which there is not.  And yes, ofcourse they can narrow it down to get an idea of what type of device you have, but unless you have over 1000w light I see no need to worry.  Also if this case were to ever happen, it would be the electrical company not the police doing this.
 
It is also possible for the police to examine electricity usage levels during certain time periods.  If your house draws a normal amount and then like clockwork an additional 1000 Watts turns on from 12 noon to 12 midnight then that can be detected.

Agreed, it would deffinitly be noticeable if you had something 1000w or larger turning on and off at the same time.

However, let me say that the vast majority of grows are not found out because of high electric use.  They are found out because someone snitched.

Yes, however many grows are also exposed due to stealing electricity by bypassing the meter.

Have your veg room be only on for 18 hours instead of an unnecessary 24 hours.

Yeah, it could cut it down a bit.  As far as 24hr being unnecissary? Can't say I agree with that.

However no matter the case, IMO when you surpass 1000w dedicated to a grow, it would have a better chance of becoming noticeable.


Edited by AKSE (01/20/09 10:08 PM)


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OfflineKalcu
Registered: 01/02/09
Posts: 8
Last seen: 10 years, 28 days
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #189253 - 01/25/09 10:23 AM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Well they don't need a warrant to manually inspect the meter and see how it's running.

The sad thing is that they don't need any math to back up their accusation.  A simple inference will do and when they actually find something illegal growing that supports their claim so you cannot say that they didn't have the proper math to support their warrant.

Always wait after ordering things, after six months their PC is pretty much down the toilet without knew Intel.

Cops work under the same methods of Intel as most of them were in the military and have militarized the civilian world.  Employing counter Intel methods is really your only chance of survival.

Plus counter Intel makes them look dumb on the stand if you do get caught, you can really destabilize their view.


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InvisibleMagashM
The Feminizer
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Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,618
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Kalcu]
    #192292 - 02/04/09 09:12 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Hey guys, just so you know you can go to power companies and tell them your a medical grower. They give a deal to med growers on the power. This is not a joke since I'm doing it and have been for years. Little scary filling out the paper work but I'd have been done it a long long long time ago if the power company wasn't cool with it.

Also to get noticed you have to be cranking out way more then a 1000 watt light can do. In fact to even get looked at you need to be doing like 6000 watts of power or more.


Wanna not get busted keep your mouth shut.


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Offlinemattyyy
Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 20
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Magash]
    #192449 - 02/05/09 01:07 AM (10 years, 18 days ago)

how much of a break do they give you?


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Offlinelothario
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Registered: 02/05/09
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: mattyyy]
    #192697 - 02/05/09 07:15 PM (10 years, 17 days ago)

What if I wanted to do a 12,000 watt grow? Are there any good ideas on generator usage? Would it be cost effective or even possible at all?


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OfflineMr. Hands
Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 89
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: lothario]
    #194655 - 02/11/09 08:14 AM (10 years, 11 days ago)

There have been many grows that used generators.  It is not economically competitive to use generated elecricity.  It is much cheaper to buy it from the electric company.  But, the extra cost for the generated power can be worth it in order to hide your electricity usage.  And it doesn't matter because you'll be making a ton of money anyway.  :shrug:

I would look into diesel, propane, or natural gas generators depending on what you want to do and how much money you have.  Be warned though, it would be very expensive to set up a massive operation like that and VERY illegal (i.e. you go to prison if caught).


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OfflineJMR


Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 45
Last seen: 3 years, 19 days
Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #194707 - 02/11/09 01:47 PM (10 years, 11 days ago)

Doesn't every one wish solar panels were like $2.


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OfflineAnnom
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 316
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: lothario]
    #194711 - 02/11/09 01:52 PM (10 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

lothario said:
What if I wanted to do a 12,000 watt grow? Are there any good ideas on generator usage? Would it be cost effective or even possible at all?



Yes, you could use a generator. Generator energy is more expensive than grid energy and they are noisy, but energy is still cheap.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Annom]
    #194821 - 02/11/09 07:20 PM (10 years, 11 days ago)

a 30kw generator uses about 2gals of diesel per hour

12hours days * 63 day crop = 31.5 full days * 24hrs * 2gph = 1512gals * diesel cost per gal = operation cost

I think it would be a lot of work to hide the exhaust and you could get busted if someone notices the diesel exhaust never ending.


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