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OfflinePicklez
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Re: Obama [Re: Stoneth]
    #286791 - 09/26/09 02:34 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

You have no idea what you are talking about. At all

Stick to growing weed


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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: Obama [Re: Picklez]
    #286795 - 09/26/09 02:39 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

That's right believe what makes you sleep well at night man.

Yrat said it best "our government now controls our economy's housing sector, auto sector, financial sector, and is looking to take over the health sector now too.  would you like to look up the word fascism for me?"

You have a nice day KP.


--------------------
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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: Obama [Re: Stoneth]
    #286799 - 09/26/09 02:43 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

i think i am more tired of seeing ignorant people on every side of an issue supporting an opinion they can't articulate.  These people know nothing of the ramifications of certain government action.  not to imply that I do.  I've never studied the federal legislature system or public policy so I don't know what the answer is.  And it really blows my mind how SOOO many people think they are experts.


--------------------





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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: Obama [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #286805 - 09/26/09 02:52 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Hell I'm no expert but I like watching the sent meetings.

This health care thing needs a lot of work and luck for us the congress and sent. aren't jumping the gun yet as the pres has requested them to do.

Who knows how many times it'll change before if even it gets passed.


--------------------
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OfflinePicklez
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Re: Obama [Re: Stoneth]
    #286807 - 09/26/09 02:53 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

FYI, the government was forced to buy out certain sectors from stopping them from collapsing. Call it Facism if you are stupid enough to do so but anyone with an education knows the government did what it had to do in attempts to keep this country from a depression, it was hardly out of self interest that they got involved.


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Re: Obama [Re: Picklez]
    #286811 - 09/26/09 03:01 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
FYI, the government was forced to buy out certain sectors from stopping them from collapsing. Call it Facism if you are stupid enough to do so but anyone with an education knows the government did what it had to do in attempts to keep this country from a depression, it was hardly out of self interest that they got involved.



This much I know as fact man we are in a depression anyone educated knows this.

Unemployment is higher than ever and those numbers aren't even right because when benifit run out you're on longer a number with or without job.

I will walk away from your thread at this point, so you have no need to call anyone stupid again.


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OfflinePicklez
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Re: Obama [Re: Stoneth]
    #286817 - 09/26/09 03:12 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Wow, you think we are in a depression :lol:

i dont think you even know what the definition of a depression is.

go trim your plants


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Obama [Re: Picklez]
    #286819 - 09/26/09 03:14 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
FYI, the government was forced to buy out certain sectors from stopping them from collapsing. Call it Facism if you are stupid enough to do so but anyone with an education knows the government did what it had to do in attempts to keep this country from a depression, it was hardly out of self interest that they got involved.





you are so naive.  the collapse is the cure for the easy money policy of bush and greenspan.  all they did was prop up the unstable economy for a bit longer with YOUR money.  it's only a matter of time until the house of cards collapses again, none of the fundamental problems have been solved.  consumption has reached record lows, savings rates have risen, and you can't have an economy that is 70% consumption keep chugging along without addressing these issues.


--------------------
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln


"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
                                                                                      :gethigh:


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OfflinePicklez
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Re: Obama [Re: Yrat]
    #286823 - 09/26/09 03:19 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
FYI, the government was forced to buy out certain sectors from stopping them from collapsing. Call it Facism if you are stupid enough to do so but anyone with an education knows the government did what it had to do in attempts to keep this country from a depression, it was hardly out of self interest that they got involved.





you are so naive.  the collapse is the cure for the easy money policy of bush and greenspan.  all they did was prop up the unstable economy for a bit longer with YOUR money.  it's only a matter of time until the house of cards collapses again, none of the fundamental problems have been solved.  consumption has reached record lows, savings rates have risen, and you can't have an economy that is 70% consumption keep chugging along without addressing these issues.





Ok, I agree with everything you said. I never said the government fixed the problems. I was just saying the government didnt do it out of self-interest. They did it in attempts to stabilize parts of the economy that are failing

This was to the acquisition that the government was Fascist.


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Obama [Re: Picklez]
    #286822 - 09/26/09 03:19 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
FYI, the government was forced to buy out certain sectors from stopping them from collapsing. Call it Facism if you are stupid enough to do so but anyone with an education knows the government did what it had to do in attempts to keep this country from a depression, it was hardly out of self interest that they got involved.




it doesn't matter what you think, government has no right to meddle in the economy.  that's not its job.  show me where the power to do so is delegated to it in the constitution.


--------------------
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln


"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
                                                                                      :gethigh:


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OfflinePicklez
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Re: Obama [Re: Yrat]
    #286825 - 09/26/09 03:20 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
FYI, the government was forced to buy out certain sectors from stopping them from collapsing. Call it Facism if you are stupid enough to do so but anyone with an education knows the government did what it had to do in attempts to keep this country from a depression, it was hardly out of self interest that they got involved.




it doesn't matter what you think, government has no right to meddle in the economy.  that's not its job.  show me where the power to do so is delegated to it in the constitution.




show me where it doesnt have the power.


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Obama [Re: Picklez]
    #286826 - 09/26/09 03:21 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
Quote:

Yrat said:
Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
FYI, the government was forced to buy out certain sectors from stopping them from collapsing. Call it Facism if you are stupid enough to do so but anyone with an education knows the government did what it had to do in attempts to keep this country from a depression, it was hardly out of self interest that they got involved.





you are so naive.  the collapse is the cure for the easy money policy of bush and greenspan.  all they did was prop up the unstable economy for a bit longer with YOUR money.  it's only a matter of time until the house of cards collapses again, none of the fundamental problems have been solved.  consumption has reached record lows, savings rates have risen, and you can't have an economy that is 70% consumption keep chugging along without addressing these issues.





Ok, I agree with everything you said. I never said the government fixed the problems. I was just saying the government didnt do it out of self-interest. They did it in attempts to stabilize parts of the economy that are failing

This was to the acquisition that the government was Fascist.





but the sectors have to collapse in order to fix the economy.  that's how capitalism works.  businesses that do not function efficiently enough to produce a profit go under, and those that do grow into their place.  the free market system has this natural tendency to keep itself working w/o boom bust cycles.  factor in the FED however, and the picture completely changes.


--------------------
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln


"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
                                                                                      :gethigh:


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Obama [Re: Picklez]
    #286828 - 09/26/09 03:23 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
Quote:

Yrat said:
Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
FYI, the government was forced to buy out certain sectors from stopping them from collapsing. Call it Facism if you are stupid enough to do so but anyone with an education knows the government did what it had to do in attempts to keep this country from a depression, it was hardly out of self interest that they got involved.




it doesn't matter what you think, government has no right to meddle in the economy.  that's not its job.  show me where the power to do so is delegated to it in the constitution.




show me where it doesnt have the power.




10th amendement: powers not granted to the national government nor prohibited to the states are reserved to the states or the people.

constitutions limit the powers of government, they can't do anything not expressly allowed.  dude, it is clear you don't even have a very thorough understanding of government or economics.  this is made even more clear through your parroting of the obama propaganda lines.


--------------------
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln


"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
                                                                                      :gethigh:


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OfflinePicklez
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Re: Obama [Re: Yrat]
    #286830 - 09/26/09 03:24 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

I dont see how allowing millions of Americans to lose their homes and allowing auto manufacturers to bankrupt would be of any benefit.

Sure it is Capitalism to let them fail but can you really say what would happen if the government didnt do anything and let the banks collapse, let our manufacturing collapse, and let the housing industry sink?


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Obama [Re: Picklez]
    #286832 - 09/26/09 03:27 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

yeah, the industries would regrow on stable footing.  things would be painful for awhile, but then ensure stability in the future.  sometimes medicine tastes bad, but you have to swallow it.

  if someone took out a mortgage on a house they couldn't afford, why do i have to bail them out with my money?


--------------------
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln


"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
                                                                                      :gethigh:


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: Obama [Re: Picklez]
    #286833 - 09/26/09 03:27 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

adam smith.


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Obama [Re: Picklez]
    #286834 - 09/26/09 03:30 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
I dont see how allowing millions of Americans to lose their homes and allowing auto manufacturers to bankrupt would be of any benefit.

Sure it is Capitalism to let them fail but can you really say what would happen if the government didnt do anything and let the banks collapse, let our manufacturing collapse, and let the housing industry sink?





again, it's not the government's job to bail out the financial industry or homeowners.  THATS NOT ITS JOB.  just the fact it is doing so is stepping wwwaaaaayy over its bounds as set by the constitution.  the fact that in order to do so it must raise taxes (take $$ from individuals that should go to economic recovery) or print money out of thin air via the fed (which steals money from all dollars already in existence) makes the process even more disgusting.

the economy is literally being kept away FROM recovery by all this bullshit.


--------------------
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln


"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
                                                                                      :gethigh:


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OfflinePicklez
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Re: Obama [Re: Yrat]
    #286835 - 09/26/09 03:31 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
  if someone took out a mortgage on a house they couldn't afford, why do i have to bail them out with my money?





I agree 100% HOWEVER, I think there should have been tighter regulations in place that prevented banks from lending to people who couldnt actually afford these homes

the banking industry is just as much to blame as greedy American people.


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Obama [Re: Picklez]
    #286842 - 09/26/09 03:40 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

dude, it was the regulations that caused the problems to begin with.  the Community Reinvestment Act of clinton's era forced banks to lend money out to borrowers in all segments of their communities, including low- and moderate-income neighborhoods.

banks were actually required by law to write out subprime mortgages. 

regulation skews the markets and causes the problems.  giant overhead government regulation isn't the answer, it's the poison.  natural market forces are the answer to all these issues, another reason why government should have no place in any aspect of an economy.


--------------------
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln


"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
                                                                                      :gethigh:


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OfflinePicklez
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Re: Obama [Re: Yrat]
    #286848 - 09/26/09 03:44 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Which is why I said there needed to be tighter regulations


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