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OfflineKaptain

Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 94
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: obama is so great [Re: highasfuck]
    #140358 - 11/03/08 10:10 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Well, It seems as if we are at a standstill, OH NO!

Like everything else, outsourcing can be prevented by regulatory measures i.e. "Nike, How come all YOURRZZ shoes CUM from Indonesia? Lets make the collective moral decision to not invest in companys that are pieces of shit. Its the shareholders, all you people out there, that perpetuate outsourcing, not the PREZZZ."

In fact in some instances outsources creates MORE management positions and less shitty factory positions for Americans to take. Production outsourced, company growth, more opportunity for americans to sit and stare out of their 67th story window with pride.

Higher taxes for an economic elite.


Not to mention I think people forgot about the war. You see the more the government borrows from banks, the higher interest rates, the less people will want to start small business, the more people are stuck being treated as numbers stuck operating a cereal packaging machine, blah blah blahbedy blah. Immediate withdrawl obviously neccecary.

Now look at welfare. One of the remaining scraps of dignified remorse for people. By trivializing the war and the ridiculous expenses, the money we are not taking from filthy rich and cutting a deal with the less fortunate, the republicans have created ridiculous fear mongering chodes running around bitching about the negros abusing the welfare system. Come on, Really? Please check your real expenses.

Not to mention you are arguing against your own kind here. Economic issues aside, obama smokes newports son. Check yourself. By voting right you are fueling the fire regarding the war on drugs and mandatory minimum sentances. Just go to youtube and watch obama's stance on your female friend mary jane. Light hearted. Remember this is a marijuana forum, and if your love for the ganj is as solid as you say, it should certainly be a factor when deciding on which candidate. Religious zealousy will end you in prison. Obama understands the preservation of traditional morals is outdated.

WAYDZOR, I SMOKE WAYDZOR.

WAYD


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Invisibleusg543
◕‿◕

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 7,259
Re: obama is so great [Re: wowitch420]
    #140360 - 11/03/08 10:12 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

wowitch420 said:
usg, please shut the fuck up with your retarded obtuse view of politics. We know you are a pro life libertarian, no need to divulge to us your complete ability to stream utter bullshit from your mouth, spare us. we get it.




i'm not prolife, you have that wrong. i am a strong libertarian, yes.

anyways, the only reason i'm arguing is zippo's reasons for voting for obama are completely wrong, given those reasons he should vote mccain. i could understand if he strongly supported abortion, free healthcare, war with iran and getting out of iraq, or something liberal, but he talks about the economy... what the fuck do you think i'm studying at grad school??? obama would be terrible for our economy.

he's an ignorant voter like most of america. i could respect his opinion if he had a clue what and who he was voting for.


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Invisibleusg543
◕‿◕

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 7,259
Re: obama is so great [Re: Kaptain]
    #140368 - 11/03/08 10:18 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Kaptain said:
Just go to youtube and watch obama's stance on your female friend mary jane. Light hearted. Remember this is a marijuana forum, and if your love for the ganj is as solid as you say, it should certainly be a factor when deciding on which candidate.




years ago he supported decriminalization of marijuana. now he flip-flopped and now says it should stay illegal. check the RECENT youtubes.

Biden (that's his VP running mate encase you didn't know :wink:) is a strong supporter of the drug war.

if you really cared about marijuana and it was your main issue you'd vote the marijuana party or some shit (hell even libertarian). not obama or mccain.

hell palin is from a state where marijuana is legal to grow up to 14 plants in your own home... of course this means nothing just like your comment.


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Invisiblewowitch420
whippits n ribs
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 5,982
Loc: 512 TX
Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140378 - 11/03/08 10:52 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

democrats are a lot more likely to pass liberal laws concerning our lovely THC, im sure you agree with me on that it can be see historically. So lets elect obama because he is likely to pass bills put forth by members of the democratic majority in congress, which are certainly more open than republican politcians on introducing bills such as legalization of medical MJ or alleviate some of the less favorable factors of our war on drugs.


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        heady nugz


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Invisibleusg543
◕‿◕

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 7,259
Re: obama is so great [Re: wowitch420]
    #140379 - 11/03/08 11:00 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

it doesn't matter which side, neither support the cause. nothing will be done for it. biden is a strong supporter of the drug war and obama will say anything to get elected. mccain won't do shit to help either.

libertarian party or marijuana party... neither obama will mccain will help you.


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OfflineKaptain

Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 94
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140380 - 11/03/08 11:01 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Well, I watched the first, most recent video I could find. He specifically points out later in his speech that justice department resources wont be used for marijuana, targeting things like violent crime. He makes it clear several times in the video that marijuana IS NOT high on his list of priorities. He isnt flip flopping or dodging the issue, he is dodging a plethora of negative advertising and ad's claiming that he is a rapist sympathizer and a terrorist because he doesn't care about minor drug offenders. I wouldn't say he is as much The marijuana party or libertarian? Now dont be silly, everyone knows neither of those parties are actually serious. I suppose keeping third parties alive is alright and all, or I could just take my vote and do this with it..

Follow this link to see what happens to your vote when you vote libertarian ----->http://tinyurl.com/5kzz2b

Follow this link to see what happens when you vote for the marijuana party, in terms of usefulness and contributing to actually decrimanalizing marijuana  ------>http://tinyurl.com/5w4qag

Oh and dont think I forgot, heres a link to that video,



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Invisibleusg543
◕‿◕

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 7,259
Re: obama is so great [Re: Kaptain]
    #140382 - 11/03/08 11:05 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

i don't click on hidden urls

and obama did flip-flop, he once supported complete decriminalization. he'll say anything to get elected. you should watch how he flip-flopped on partial birth abortion.


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Invisibleusg543
◕‿◕

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 7,259
Re: obama is so great [Re: Kaptain]
    #140383 - 11/03/08 11:08 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

oh and way to pick in your mind the 'lesser of the two evils' instead of picking a suitable candidate. with that mindset we will always have a fucked 2 party system.

this is what i think we should do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-partisan_democracy


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Invisibleusg543
◕‿◕

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 7,259
Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140384 - 11/03/08 11:11 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Commentary: Why a two-party system limits US politics
by Joost Steffensen

There are two ways to designate the nature of a political system. The first is based on it's philosophy and it's laws, hence the US is a democracy and Myanmar a dictatorship. The second way is to base the designation on the country's political reality. The two-party system is America's political reality. And despite the fact that other parties have the same rights as the major parties their rights are abrogated by a systematic bias towards the parties in power.

The title of this article says that a two-party system limits US politics. I think that that it putting it too politely. In my opinion it's fair to say that a de facto two-party system endangers democracy.

A democratic system is no guarantee for a democratic government. The Nazis in Germany came into power after winning about a third of the vote in two consecutive elections and leveraging their brokerage power to have Hitler elected chancellor. Similarly the Taliban in Afghanistan came to power after democratic elections.

Democratic systems come with inherent flaws, the main one being that people without democratic intentions can be democratically elected and then use their power to change the system. For this reason it is necessary to keep updating our laws and adapting our system as new leaks become apparent. In this respect democracy is like a boat that will sink when we stop plugging leaks and bailing water. Or to quote Thomas Jefferson: "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

So how did this two-party system come about? Basically it is a direct result of the way people in the US are elected to congress. The US congress was not designed with political parties in mind. In fact many of the founding fathers had a deep distrust of political parties. However when Hamilton started his Federalist party, Thomas Jefferson founded the Democratic-Republican party (later the Democratic party) in response.

Now the way people in the US are elected is more personality based than party based. People are elected to represent a district not a party. As a result only people who can get the majority of votes in a certain district can get a seat in congress. Since people representing small parties can never get majorities they are effectively excluded form the political process.

So what are the flaws in the US two-party system?

Flaw 1: Winner takes all district based elections

Winner takes all means one person represents everybody. That's right one person represents the Christians, the Muslims, the Jews, the gays, the democrats, the republicans, the libertarians, the pro-lifers and the abortionists, pro and anti gun, black, white, Latino, Asian, rich, poor, etc. Is it possible for one person to really look out for all the people in his/ her district or is this person more likely to pander to the plurality that elected him/her. Which brings us to:

Flaw 2: plurality not majority wins

This basically means that as long as you have the most votes of all the candidates you win. That sounds fair, but consider this: Say you live in a district that is for example overwhelmingly liberal. There are two liberal candidates and one conservative. In the election the liberals both get 32% of the vote and the conservative gets 34%. In this scenario the conservative candidate wins. This is why third party candidates such as Ralph Nader or Ross Perot are often considered spoilers. As a result people overwhelmingly support the candidate they think are most likely to defeat the opposition, not necessarily the candidate they like. If a majority is needed then according to the example there would have been a run-of election between the two best candidates. The first round would allow voters to freely select the candidate of their choice without fearing repercussions later..

So what are the results of these flaws?

The main result is dominance by two parties which are often strongly polarized. If one of the parties loses popularity a third party might become popular. However if it does it will inevitably lead to the decline and subsequent demise of one of the existing parties.

How does the two-party system affect campaigning?

Campaigning in a two party system is overwhelmingly negative. With only one opponent it is quite easy to focus on the opponents perceived weaknesses rather than highlighting personal strengths.

How does the two parties system affect peoples choice?

The two-party system severely limits peoples choice. As shown before a lot of voters are not adequately represented simply because one man can't be all things to all people. Even those whose candidate won are unlikely to be adequately represented. After all there are hundreds of issues and the two big parties represent only two possible constellations of stances on these issues. For example some people might want more tax-cuts,but be pro-choice. Where does this person turn? What if you want stronger environmental protection, are pro-life, but are strongly anti-gun and at the same time an ardent socialist? Or what if you want stronger government programs but are very much in favor of the war in Iraq? The present status quo pretends that people who think like this don't exist, but in fact there are nearly as many possible views as there are Americans. Can they really be adequately represented by two parties?

So how is the two-party system a danger to democracy?

One of the arguments for the two-party system is stability. By making sure that there are two large parties things change slowly and that is supposedly good.

However over time the two parties have not grown closer together in fact they have polarized making it increasingly difficult to pass important legislation since any legislation can nowadays be blocked with a filibuster or presidential veto requiring a two thirds majority to break.

Having more parties in congress virtually guarantees majorities on issues that enjoy a popular majority. Here's how that works. Say 80% of the American public supports a law against hats. If that is the case parties who have this item on their agenda are more likely to get elected than similar parties with the opposite view. As a result a majority of chosen parties is likely to support this issue if it came to a vote. The more parties are elected and the more people vote based on issues rather than personality the more likely it is that congress will pass legislation representing the will of the people.

At this point the two parties in fact don't really represent the will of the American people. In fact they hardly need the American people. After all no matter how badly congress does the choices for the American electorate remain the same. That in itself is undemocratic

But as time goes by it gets worse. The polarity between the parties is now so great that they increasingly regard the other party as a threat. So far neither party has had a majority large enough in both houses to make constitutional changes that would eliminate the other party, but in theory in a two-party system exactly that situation is possible.

Historically there seem to have been two ways dictatorships came into being.

The first, most common and most feared is by the the rapid rise of forces with dictatorial intentions who mount a take-over either through political (Nazis, Taliban, Saddam Hussein) or military (Castro, military junta in Myanmar, Islamic revolution in Iran) means.

The second type of take-over is much more insidious. In this case the government is assumed by people who generally have good intentions, but once in power they become convinced that they are the only ones who know what is best for the country. As a result they change the constitution so they can stay in power longer and eventually adopt fully the trappings of a dictatorship. This is what happened in Zimbabwe, it is what's happening in Cameroon just now and it might be what's happening in Venezuela and Russia.

This is the where democracy in America is at. We can only hope the worst doesn't come to pass.




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OfflineKaptain

Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 94
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140385 - 11/03/08 11:18 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Well if I gave a shit about partial birth abortion then maybe I would consider tuning in, but since babys are annoying as shit Ill pass.

I dont hide URLs. I just make them tiny.

Consider the public eye. One would obviously need to be a bit dodgey on certain issues, if I was a candidate, I would probably say anything to get elected also, thats sort of the point.

You see, in order to get elected, you have to appeal to every douche bag in the united states, more than the other candidate. If 90% of said douche bags don't like something, than you have to say SOMETHING to keep them happy. "I err umm errr marijuana err..Well its just not important" may seem less controversial than saying "Of course marijuana should be legalized, what kind of chode would throw some one in prison for smokin some DOOBIEEEZZZZ?"

WAYDZOOORRRRRRZZZ

WAYD

WAYD WAYD WAYDz0Rz

Public appeal man. Its something a candidate should maybe consider when trying to get elected.


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Invisibleusg543
◕‿◕

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 7,259
Re: obama is so great [Re: Kaptain]
    #140388 - 11/03/08 11:27 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Kaptain said:

WAYDZOOORRRRRRZZZ

WAYD

WAYD WAYD WAYDz0Rz






:flowstone:


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OfflineezKiel
All About the Haze
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 2,474
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: obama is so great [Re: Tangerines]
    #140393 - 11/03/08 11:38 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Tangerines said:
Actually, jobs will be harder if :obama: gets elected because he will be making taxes higher and making the minimum wage higher. Less money for companies to spend = less jobs available.

Anyways, I am going to college and will be able to get a job in my field because I'm smarter than the average Joe Plumber.




Unless your pulling $120K + your taxes will be getting lower under Obama.

The racist shit ain't funny either. You just look like a fucking inbred calling him a monkey.


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OfflineKaptain

Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 94
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: obama is so great [Re: ezKiel]
    #140402 - 11/03/08 11:46 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Those emoticons really convey what you are trying to say. Please do tell more?

:ooo::frown::laugh::wink::(:)

Does anybody feel its more clear now?

Since the original topic is almost lost, alex grey is lame. Cut the pseudo-spiritual bullshit already. Also that avatar, why post such demeaning pictures of yourself on a public domain so readily accessible?


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OfflineKaptain

Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 94
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: obama is so great [Re: Kaptain]
    #140403 - 11/03/08 11:47 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

w@DZ0rz


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Invisibleusg543
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Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 7,259
Re: obama is so great [Re: Kaptain]
    #140405 - 11/03/08 11:48 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

god, just when i thought you couldn't get any dumber...


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Invisibleusg543
◕‿◕

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 7,259
Re: obama is so great [Re: ezKiel]
    #140407 - 11/03/08 11:48 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

ezKiel said:
The racist shit ain't funny either. You just look like a fucking inbred calling him a monkey.




it's : obama : a smiley :obama: :lol:


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Invisibleusg543
◕‿◕

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 7,259
Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140410 - 11/03/08 11:54 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)



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OfflineTangerines
Grease Wizard
Male


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 9,497
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: obama is so great [Re: ezKiel]
    #140411 - 11/03/08 11:54 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Hey, I didn't invent the smiley dude. :mccain: :obama:

:shrug: :gayflag:


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OfflineKaptain

Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 94
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140414 - 11/03/08 11:57 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

"god, just when i thought you couldn't get any dumber..."

Weak.


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Invisibleusg543
◕‿◕

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 7,259
Re: obama is so great [Re: Kaptain]
    #140415 - 11/03/08 11:57 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Kaptain said:
w@DZ0rz




:flowstone:


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