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Invisibleusg543
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Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 7,259
obama is so great
    #140258 - 11/03/08 10:32 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)



he's going to pay for all our gas and mortgages!! :rolleyes:

:flowstone:


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140265 - 11/03/08 10:37 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

LOL, you gotta believe usg!


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
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InvisibleSkunk420
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140270 - 11/03/08 10:40 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

:lol: :getstoned:


--------------------
this is so fucking exiting..:yesnod:


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OfflineMistaUNGA
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Re: obama is so great [Re: Skunk420]
    #140272 - 11/03/08 10:42 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

"if i vote for him, he's gonna help ME!"

:rofl2:


--------------------
I'm an electric smoker :gc:

ExplosiveMango said:
If everyone could do mushroom, yes, it would be a wonderful world. This will never be, only some can do mushrooms. It is the responsibility of those of us who see the world most clearly to pass the clarity on to those who cannot bare to wear our lenses.

Madtowntripper said:Or just give her a cloroform soaked rag and tell her it's ether!


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OfflineTangerines
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140275 - 11/03/08 10:45 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I'm scared :obama: may actually win.


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Invisibleusg543
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Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: obama is so great [Re: Tangerines]
    #140282 - 11/03/08 10:51 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tangerines said:
I'm scared :obama: may actually win.




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Offlinezippo420
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140285 - 11/03/08 10:54 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Alright, so lets do another Bush term.


When you can't find a job, living out on your ass, and your parents are broke because of health problems, then you'll be wishing that monkey got in.

Enjoy your RFID and 6 bucks a gallon gas.


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OfflineTangerines
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140289 - 11/03/08 10:56 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Actually, jobs will be harder if :obama: gets elected because he will be making taxes higher and making the minimum wage higher. Less money for companies to spend = less jobs available.

Anyways, I am going to college and will be able to get a job in my field because I'm smarter than the average Joe Plumber.


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Offlinezippo420
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Re: obama is so great [Re: Tangerines]
    #140291 - 11/03/08 11:04 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Your saying that now, but this country doesnt know what my part is going through. Low sales taxes and too many min wage jobs cause people to spend nothing but their cash on bills, and bills doent really help overall business. This is soon to effect everyone the same.

To clear the table, i'm a Ron Paul guy, but Mccain? I should just sign up for the army and go to church.

I dont know what you do Tang, but if you got a good job, got your bills payed, and have time to chill out, consider yourself lucky. If you live with your mom, or your parents are paying your ass through college, fuck off. I dont know what you do but you never struck me as being smart enough to make more than a fry cook. I could be wrong, I dont really know you.


Edited by zippo420 (11/03/08 11:05 PM)


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Invisibleusg543
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Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140292 - 11/03/08 11:08 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zippo420 said:
Alright, so lets do another Bush term.


When you can't find a job, living out on your ass, and your parents are broke because of health problems, then you'll be wishing that monkey got in.

Enjoy your RFID and 6 bucks a gallon gas.




:dumbblonde:

actually obama's tax plan closely resembles bush's. funny right?

anyways, obama wants to tax anyone (aka a family or business) jointly making 250,000 or more. this means:

1) it will slow economic growth
2) it will increase unemployment
3) you will still be paying that tax in the long run--customers pay taxes, not businesses, they just collect taxes for the government.

(check out how markets are reacting already: http://www.nypost.com/seven/10132008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/an_obama_panic__133374.htm )

also, he wants to tax the rich more, who are already paying a great % more than the rest. some people pay NO taxes. how is this fair?

please remember we are a global marketplace. you might not have a higher education than highschool, but i'm sure you've heard of outsourcing, a response to globalization. well, if you tax the big businesses more they will just leave out country and set up a pseudo headquarters at a tax haven (island or country where they pay little to no taxes). this means we will be forcing business outside of the united states. that is not good for our economy, and we would receive little to no taxes from them that way.

(check this out: http://haroldblack.blogspot.com/2008/10/pardon-my-personal-distress-but-for.html )

another note: government is inefficient, unlimited resources and are not required to make a profit is a setup for disaster. ( http://mises.org/story/1471 )


last point: socialism has failed many times in history. capitalism has never failed.


p.s. when you said $6 bucks a gallon gas... i guess you don't realize that obama is against drilling for oil and wants to solely rely on foreign countries with foreign interest... this means higher prices. if we could tap into our own oil reserves we could get gas much cheaper. see how fucking rich the saudis are. it really is liquid gold.


basically by your points, you are voting for the wrong fucking person.


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OfflineTangerines
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140293 - 11/03/08 11:08 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Yea, my parents are helping me through college minimally. But most of my tuition is payed with scholarships that I earned. And as for only being smart enough for a fry cook? :lol: Try biological engineering so how about you fuck off you presumptuous twat.


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Offlinezippo420
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Re: obama is so great [Re: Tangerines]
    #140297 - 11/03/08 11:14 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Corps are out sourcing and avoid taxes by having there headquarters over seas and using that an excuse for not paying taxes. Any time we send shit to China we gotta pay them tax, but when they ship to us, they dont pay shit. How the fuck is that fair?

We need some regulations, and about taxing corps more and outsourcing, I see you point but Obama addressed that. If you outsource jobs you WILL pay more, but the tax breaks by employing more domestic people, with those tax cuts they'll be paying a hell of a lot less than they did before the Clinton administration.

We need REGULATION, which MC wont bring. THIS IS CAPITALISM RUN AMUCK


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Offlinezippo420
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140300 - 11/03/08 11:16 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Tax and spend

or borrow and spend?


I rather not drive our dollar down and put this country in the shit house. War in Iraq is lowering our dollar value every month. Gotta look at the bigger picture too


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140302 - 11/03/08 11:19 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zippo420 said:
Corps are out sourcing and avoid taxes by having there headquarters over seas and using that an excuse for not paying taxes. Any time we send shit to China we gotta pay them tax, but when they ship to us, they dont pay shit. How the fuck is that fair?




have you ever heard of trade barriers, quotes, tariffs?? china is not part of NAFTA you ignorant fuck. the WTO helps moderate these things. what you said was entirely false.

Quote:

zippo420 said:
If you outsource jobs you WILL pay more, but the tax breaks by employing more domestic people, with those tax cuts they'll be paying a hell of a lot less than they did before the Clinton administration.




You didn't explain it properly, but I know what you are talking about. Outsourcing won't end. Do you know how cheap it is?? If you understood economics, you would realize how bad of a plan this really is.


Quote:

zippo420 said:
We need LESS regulation




fixed.


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140305 - 11/03/08 11:22 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zippo420 said:
Tax and spend

or borrow and spend?


I rather not drive our dollar down and put this country in the shit house. War in Iraq is lowering our dollar value every month. Gotta look at the bigger picture too




well you have it wrong.

tax and government spends (inefficiently).
or provide tax breaks so our people have more money to spend = promote economic growth.

besides a plummeting dollar will only be short term. dollar weakens, our exports increase (American goods are cheaper) = more jobs, more growth, dollar will go back up. it's fucking basic economics.

just stop now, you have no idea what you are talking about.


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Offlinezippo420
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140306 - 11/03/08 11:23 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Outsourcing will never stop, I agree

but if you really believe the rest, your fucked

Economics and how they are supposed to work is way different than they do work.

Look at Enron, Exxon, and others, do some research on how they like to pay taxes and help the people.


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Offlinezippo420
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140308 - 11/03/08 11:27 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)



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Invisibleusg543
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Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140309 - 11/03/08 11:28 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

you are retarded.

and to go on about you talking about our 'weak dollar'... it has been strengthening if you have been keeping up with it ( http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/gold-falls-dollar-continues-strengthening/story.aspx?guid={F4A959EF-737F-4DF7-AF32-7526D25C3C39} ).

Quote:

zippo420 said:
Look at Enron...




where have you been the last 7 years?? are you fucking kidding me?


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Offlinezippo420
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140310 - 11/03/08 11:31 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Your using 750$ an ounce gold to back yourself.


Where the fuck you've been the last 20 years?


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Offlinehighasfuck
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140313 - 11/03/08 11:35 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

ohhh you two  :oldman:


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Invisibleusg543
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Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140314 - 11/03/08 11:37 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

god you are a dumbass. check the historical data against any other currency almost. euro, yen, etc... dollar has been strengthening almost this entire year. you know why? because it was weak and our exports were cheap, we sold more shit, we employed more people, we gained more wealth, it went back up.

you know why china is such a fucking powerhouse? because their government artificially keeps their currency low. that's one reason their economy is growing so fucking fast.

and yes i have researched taxes, and exxon, one fucking company, pays more taxes than 50% of taxpayers. so great plan, let's tax them more. in the end you are really paying their taxes anyways. if you understood business you'd understand that businesses do not pay taxes, customers pay taxes. businesses just collect taxes from customers and give them to the government.

which brings me back to gas, i wonder how much cheaper it would be if they weren't so heavily taxed??


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140315 - 11/03/08 11:39 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

somehow you miraculously think, obama is going to help our economy, and drive down gas prices by not only not allowing drilling in our own country, but also increasing taxes?? :flowstone:


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Offlinezippo420
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140320 - 11/03/08 11:43 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

usg543 said:


you know why china is such a fucking powerhouse? because their government artificially keeps their currency low. that's one reason their economy is growing so fucking fast.









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Offlinezippo420
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140321 - 11/03/08 11:45 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Need to stop drilling, we have the fucking power to make vehicles that get much greater gas mileage than we do now, just using gasoline.

Everything is fucked, obama isnt the answer but he's much better than MC at the matter


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Invisiblemel_lonta_tauda
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140322 - 11/03/08 11:47 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

expect to see prices dropped for fried chicken starting next week :snowman:


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140324 - 11/03/08 11:48 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

i never said we should implement that, it was just an exampe because you 'don't buy into all that economics bullshit'....

and umm as far as you calling me a commie, you're the one supporting obama? if anything you're closer to a 'commie' than i am. obama is a socialist. you're supporting him. :shrug:


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Invisiblewowitch420
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140325 - 11/03/08 11:48 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

stop the political arguments. Obama is going to win and you all will suck a fat democratic cock for at least 4 years while all your governments are belong to us.


--------------------

        heady nugz


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Offlinezippo420
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Re: obama is so great [Re: mel_lonta_tauda]
    #140326 - 11/03/08 11:48 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mel_lonta_tauda said:
expect to see prices dropped for fried chicken starting next week :snowman:




LOL


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Invisibleusg543
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Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140330 - 11/03/08 11:51 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zippo420 said:
Need to stop drilling, we have the fucking power to make vehicles that get much greater gas mileage than we do now, just using gasoline.

Everything is fucked, obama isnt the answer but he's much better than MC at the matter




sorry, but you've bought into the lies.

Quote:

free healthcare.
less taxes.
spread the wealth.
get out of iraq.
start a war with iran instead.
CHANGE!!!




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Offlinehighasfuck
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140332 - 11/03/08 11:54 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

McCain Supporters







lols


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Offlinezippo420
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140333 - 11/03/08 11:54 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Your a dumbfuck


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Invisiblewowitch420
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140334 - 11/03/08 11:54 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

usg, please shut the fuck up with your retarded obtuse view of politics. We know you are a pro life libertarian, no need to divulge to us your complete ability to stream utter bullshit from your mouth, spare us. we get it.


--------------------

        heady nugz


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OfflineTangerines
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140336 - 11/03/08 11:56 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I'm going to create the next big Bio fuel and be a gazillionaire.


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140337 - 11/03/08 11:57 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

obama supporters:



average voter like you:



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Invisibleusg543
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140340 - 11/04/08 12:00 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)



more obama supporters


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Offlinehighasfuck
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140342 - 11/04/08 12:00 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

This is worse



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Offlinezippo420
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140346 - 11/04/08 12:02 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quit using niggers and retards

Seriously, neither one helps each side.


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OfflineTangerines
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140348 - 11/04/08 12:03 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I like when Howard Stern went to Harlem and asked blacks about McCain stances while attributing them to Obama and they said they loved them. Just because :obama: is :obama:


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: obama is so great [Re: zippo420]
    #140350 - 11/04/08 12:03 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zippo420 said:
Your a dumbfuck




:dumbblonde:


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: obama is so great [Re: highasfuck]
    #140353 - 11/04/08 12:06 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)





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OfflineKaptain

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Re: obama is so great [Re: highasfuck]
    #140358 - 11/04/08 12:10 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Well, It seems as if we are at a standstill, OH NO!

Like everything else, outsourcing can be prevented by regulatory measures i.e. "Nike, How come all YOURRZZ shoes CUM from Indonesia? Lets make the collective moral decision to not invest in companys that are pieces of shit. Its the shareholders, all you people out there, that perpetuate outsourcing, not the PREZZZ."

In fact in some instances outsources creates MORE management positions and less shitty factory positions for Americans to take. Production outsourced, company growth, more opportunity for americans to sit and stare out of their 67th story window with pride.

Higher taxes for an economic elite.


Not to mention I think people forgot about the war. You see the more the government borrows from banks, the higher interest rates, the less people will want to start small business, the more people are stuck being treated as numbers stuck operating a cereal packaging machine, blah blah blahbedy blah. Immediate withdrawl obviously neccecary.

Now look at welfare. One of the remaining scraps of dignified remorse for people. By trivializing the war and the ridiculous expenses, the money we are not taking from filthy rich and cutting a deal with the less fortunate, the republicans have created ridiculous fear mongering chodes running around bitching about the negros abusing the welfare system. Come on, Really? Please check your real expenses.

Not to mention you are arguing against your own kind here. Economic issues aside, obama smokes newports son. Check yourself. By voting right you are fueling the fire regarding the war on drugs and mandatory minimum sentances. Just go to youtube and watch obama's stance on your female friend mary jane. Light hearted. Remember this is a marijuana forum, and if your love for the ganj is as solid as you say, it should certainly be a factor when deciding on which candidate. Religious zealousy will end you in prison. Obama understands the preservation of traditional morals is outdated.

WAYDZOR, I SMOKE WAYDZOR.

WAYD


--------------------




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Invisibleusg543
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Re: obama is so great [Re: wowitch420]
    #140360 - 11/04/08 12:12 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wowitch420 said:
usg, please shut the fuck up with your retarded obtuse view of politics. We know you are a pro life libertarian, no need to divulge to us your complete ability to stream utter bullshit from your mouth, spare us. we get it.




i'm not prolife, you have that wrong. i am a strong libertarian, yes.

anyways, the only reason i'm arguing is zippo's reasons for voting for obama are completely wrong, given those reasons he should vote mccain. i could understand if he strongly supported abortion, free healthcare, war with iran and getting out of iraq, or something liberal, but he talks about the economy... what the fuck do you think i'm studying at grad school??? obama would be terrible for our economy.

he's an ignorant voter like most of america. i could respect his opinion if he had a clue what and who he was voting for.


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: obama is so great [Re: Kaptain]
    #140368 - 11/04/08 12:18 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kaptain said:
Just go to youtube and watch obama's stance on your female friend mary jane. Light hearted. Remember this is a marijuana forum, and if your love for the ganj is as solid as you say, it should certainly be a factor when deciding on which candidate.




years ago he supported decriminalization of marijuana. now he flip-flopped and now says it should stay illegal. check the RECENT youtubes.

Biden (that's his VP running mate encase you didn't know :wink:) is a strong supporter of the drug war.

if you really cared about marijuana and it was your main issue you'd vote the marijuana party or some shit (hell even libertarian). not obama or mccain.

hell palin is from a state where marijuana is legal to grow up to 14 plants in your own home... of course this means nothing just like your comment.


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Invisiblewowitch420
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140378 - 11/04/08 12:52 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

democrats are a lot more likely to pass liberal laws concerning our lovely THC, im sure you agree with me on that it can be see historically. So lets elect obama because he is likely to pass bills put forth by members of the democratic majority in congress, which are certainly more open than republican politcians on introducing bills such as legalization of medical MJ or alleviate some of the less favorable factors of our war on drugs.


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        heady nugz


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Invisibleusg543
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Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 7,259
Re: obama is so great [Re: wowitch420]
    #140379 - 11/04/08 01:00 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

it doesn't matter which side, neither support the cause. nothing will be done for it. biden is a strong supporter of the drug war and obama will say anything to get elected. mccain won't do shit to help either.

libertarian party or marijuana party... neither obama will mccain will help you.


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OfflineKaptain

Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 94
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140380 - 11/04/08 01:01 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Well, I watched the first, most recent video I could find. He specifically points out later in his speech that justice department resources wont be used for marijuana, targeting things like violent crime. He makes it clear several times in the video that marijuana IS NOT high on his list of priorities. He isnt flip flopping or dodging the issue, he is dodging a plethora of negative advertising and ad's claiming that he is a rapist sympathizer and a terrorist because he doesn't care about minor drug offenders. I wouldn't say he is as much The marijuana party or libertarian? Now dont be silly, everyone knows neither of those parties are actually serious. I suppose keeping third parties alive is alright and all, or I could just take my vote and do this with it..

Follow this link to see what happens to your vote when you vote libertarian ----->http://tinyurl.com/5kzz2b

Follow this link to see what happens when you vote for the marijuana party, in terms of usefulness and contributing to actually decrimanalizing marijuana  ------>http://tinyurl.com/5w4qag

Oh and dont think I forgot, heres a link to that video,



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Invisibleusg543
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Re: obama is so great [Re: Kaptain]
    #140382 - 11/04/08 01:05 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

i don't click on hidden urls

and obama did flip-flop, he once supported complete decriminalization. he'll say anything to get elected. you should watch how he flip-flopped on partial birth abortion.


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: obama is so great [Re: Kaptain]
    #140383 - 11/04/08 01:08 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

oh and way to pick in your mind the 'lesser of the two evils' instead of picking a suitable candidate. with that mindset we will always have a fucked 2 party system.

this is what i think we should do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-partisan_democracy


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140384 - 11/04/08 01:11 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Commentary: Why a two-party system limits US politics
by Joost Steffensen

There are two ways to designate the nature of a political system. The first is based on it's philosophy and it's laws, hence the US is a democracy and Myanmar a dictatorship. The second way is to base the designation on the country's political reality. The two-party system is America's political reality. And despite the fact that other parties have the same rights as the major parties their rights are abrogated by a systematic bias towards the parties in power.

The title of this article says that a two-party system limits US politics. I think that that it putting it too politely. In my opinion it's fair to say that a de facto two-party system endangers democracy.

A democratic system is no guarantee for a democratic government. The Nazis in Germany came into power after winning about a third of the vote in two consecutive elections and leveraging their brokerage power to have Hitler elected chancellor. Similarly the Taliban in Afghanistan came to power after democratic elections.

Democratic systems come with inherent flaws, the main one being that people without democratic intentions can be democratically elected and then use their power to change the system. For this reason it is necessary to keep updating our laws and adapting our system as new leaks become apparent. In this respect democracy is like a boat that will sink when we stop plugging leaks and bailing water. Or to quote Thomas Jefferson: "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

So how did this two-party system come about? Basically it is a direct result of the way people in the US are elected to congress. The US congress was not designed with political parties in mind. In fact many of the founding fathers had a deep distrust of political parties. However when Hamilton started his Federalist party, Thomas Jefferson founded the Democratic-Republican party (later the Democratic party) in response.

Now the way people in the US are elected is more personality based than party based. People are elected to represent a district not a party. As a result only people who can get the majority of votes in a certain district can get a seat in congress. Since people representing small parties can never get majorities they are effectively excluded form the political process.

So what are the flaws in the US two-party system?

Flaw 1: Winner takes all district based elections

Winner takes all means one person represents everybody. That's right one person represents the Christians, the Muslims, the Jews, the gays, the democrats, the republicans, the libertarians, the pro-lifers and the abortionists, pro and anti gun, black, white, Latino, Asian, rich, poor, etc. Is it possible for one person to really look out for all the people in his/ her district or is this person more likely to pander to the plurality that elected him/her. Which brings us to:

Flaw 2: plurality not majority wins

This basically means that as long as you have the most votes of all the candidates you win. That sounds fair, but consider this: Say you live in a district that is for example overwhelmingly liberal. There are two liberal candidates and one conservative. In the election the liberals both get 32% of the vote and the conservative gets 34%. In this scenario the conservative candidate wins. This is why third party candidates such as Ralph Nader or Ross Perot are often considered spoilers. As a result people overwhelmingly support the candidate they think are most likely to defeat the opposition, not necessarily the candidate they like. If a majority is needed then according to the example there would have been a run-of election between the two best candidates. The first round would allow voters to freely select the candidate of their choice without fearing repercussions later..

So what are the results of these flaws?

The main result is dominance by two parties which are often strongly polarized. If one of the parties loses popularity a third party might become popular. However if it does it will inevitably lead to the decline and subsequent demise of one of the existing parties.

How does the two-party system affect campaigning?

Campaigning in a two party system is overwhelmingly negative. With only one opponent it is quite easy to focus on the opponents perceived weaknesses rather than highlighting personal strengths.

How does the two parties system affect peoples choice?

The two-party system severely limits peoples choice. As shown before a lot of voters are not adequately represented simply because one man can't be all things to all people. Even those whose candidate won are unlikely to be adequately represented. After all there are hundreds of issues and the two big parties represent only two possible constellations of stances on these issues. For example some people might want more tax-cuts,but be pro-choice. Where does this person turn? What if you want stronger environmental protection, are pro-life, but are strongly anti-gun and at the same time an ardent socialist? Or what if you want stronger government programs but are very much in favor of the war in Iraq? The present status quo pretends that people who think like this don't exist, but in fact there are nearly as many possible views as there are Americans. Can they really be adequately represented by two parties?

So how is the two-party system a danger to democracy?

One of the arguments for the two-party system is stability. By making sure that there are two large parties things change slowly and that is supposedly good.

However over time the two parties have not grown closer together in fact they have polarized making it increasingly difficult to pass important legislation since any legislation can nowadays be blocked with a filibuster or presidential veto requiring a two thirds majority to break.

Having more parties in congress virtually guarantees majorities on issues that enjoy a popular majority. Here's how that works. Say 80% of the American public supports a law against hats. If that is the case parties who have this item on their agenda are more likely to get elected than similar parties with the opposite view. As a result a majority of chosen parties is likely to support this issue if it came to a vote. The more parties are elected and the more people vote based on issues rather than personality the more likely it is that congress will pass legislation representing the will of the people.

At this point the two parties in fact don't really represent the will of the American people. In fact they hardly need the American people. After all no matter how badly congress does the choices for the American electorate remain the same. That in itself is undemocratic

But as time goes by it gets worse. The polarity between the parties is now so great that they increasingly regard the other party as a threat. So far neither party has had a majority large enough in both houses to make constitutional changes that would eliminate the other party, but in theory in a two-party system exactly that situation is possible.

Historically there seem to have been two ways dictatorships came into being.

The first, most common and most feared is by the the rapid rise of forces with dictatorial intentions who mount a take-over either through political (Nazis, Taliban, Saddam Hussein) or military (Castro, military junta in Myanmar, Islamic revolution in Iran) means.

The second type of take-over is much more insidious. In this case the government is assumed by people who generally have good intentions, but once in power they become convinced that they are the only ones who know what is best for the country. As a result they change the constitution so they can stay in power longer and eventually adopt fully the trappings of a dictatorship. This is what happened in Zimbabwe, it is what's happening in Cameroon just now and it might be what's happening in Venezuela and Russia.

This is the where democracy in America is at. We can only hope the worst doesn't come to pass.




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OfflineKaptain

Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 94
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140385 - 11/04/08 01:18 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Well if I gave a shit about partial birth abortion then maybe I would consider tuning in, but since babys are annoying as shit Ill pass.

I dont hide URLs. I just make them tiny.

Consider the public eye. One would obviously need to be a bit dodgey on certain issues, if I was a candidate, I would probably say anything to get elected also, thats sort of the point.

You see, in order to get elected, you have to appeal to every douche bag in the united states, more than the other candidate. If 90% of said douche bags don't like something, than you have to say SOMETHING to keep them happy. "I err umm errr marijuana err..Well its just not important" may seem less controversial than saying "Of course marijuana should be legalized, what kind of chode would throw some one in prison for smokin some DOOBIEEEZZZZ?"

WAYDZOOORRRRRRZZZ

WAYD

WAYD WAYD WAYDz0Rz

Public appeal man. Its something a candidate should maybe consider when trying to get elected.


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Invisibleusg543
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Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 7,259
Re: obama is so great [Re: Kaptain]
    #140388 - 11/04/08 01:27 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kaptain said:

WAYDZOOORRRRRRZZZ

WAYD

WAYD WAYD WAYDz0Rz






:flowstone:


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OfflineezKiel
All About the Haze
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Registered: 06/12/08
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Re: obama is so great [Re: Tangerines]
    #140393 - 11/04/08 01:38 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tangerines said:
Actually, jobs will be harder if :obama: gets elected because he will be making taxes higher and making the minimum wage higher. Less money for companies to spend = less jobs available.

Anyways, I am going to college and will be able to get a job in my field because I'm smarter than the average Joe Plumber.




Unless your pulling $120K + your taxes will be getting lower under Obama.

The racist shit ain't funny either. You just look like a fucking inbred calling him a monkey.


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OfflineKaptain

Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 94
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: obama is so great [Re: ezKiel]
    #140402 - 11/04/08 01:46 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Those emoticons really convey what you are trying to say. Please do tell more?

:ooo::frown::laugh::wink::(:)

Does anybody feel its more clear now?

Since the original topic is almost lost, alex grey is lame. Cut the pseudo-spiritual bullshit already. Also that avatar, why post such demeaning pictures of yourself on a public domain so readily accessible?


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OfflineKaptain

Registered: 10/30/08
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Re: obama is so great [Re: Kaptain]
    #140403 - 11/04/08 01:47 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

w@DZ0rz


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Invisibleusg543
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Posts: 7,259
Re: obama is so great [Re: Kaptain]
    #140405 - 11/04/08 01:48 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

god, just when i thought you couldn't get any dumber...


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: obama is so great [Re: ezKiel]
    #140407 - 11/04/08 01:48 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ezKiel said:
The racist shit ain't funny either. You just look like a fucking inbred calling him a monkey.




it's : obama : a smiley :obama: :lol:


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140410 - 11/04/08 01:54 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineTangerines
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Re: obama is so great [Re: ezKiel]
    #140411 - 11/04/08 01:54 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Hey, I didn't invent the smiley dude. :mccain: :obama:

:shrug: :gayflag:


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OfflineKaptain

Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 94
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140414 - 11/04/08 01:57 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

"god, just when i thought you couldn't get any dumber..."

Weak.


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Invisibleusg543
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Re: obama is so great [Re: Kaptain]
    #140415 - 11/04/08 01:57 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kaptain said:
w@DZ0rz




:flowstone:


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OfflineMistaUNGA
green crack GREEN CRACK!!
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Re: obama is so great [Re: mel_lonta_tauda]
    #140419 - 11/04/08 02:04 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mel_lonta_tauda said:
expect to see prices dropped for fried chicken starting next week :snowman:




that just got me to vote for obama. fuck policy man, i need me some cheap fried goodness!


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I'm an electric smoker :gc:

ExplosiveMango said:
If everyone could do mushroom, yes, it would be a wonderful world. This will never be, only some can do mushrooms. It is the responsibility of those of us who see the world most clearly to pass the clarity on to those who cannot bare to wear our lenses.

Madtowntripper said:Or just give her a cloroform soaked rag and tell her it's ether!


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OfflineTHEBats
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Registered: 04/20/08
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Re: obama is so great [Re: MistaUNGA]
    #140435 - 11/04/08 07:57 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

this whole thread is fucking retarded.  obama sucks.  mccain sucks.  get over it.  u can go back and forth all day about why not to vote for either one.


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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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Invisibleltd
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Registered: 04/20/08
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Re: obama is so great [Re: usg543]
    #140475 - 11/04/08 11:52 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

usg543 said:





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OfflineezKiel
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Re: obama is so great [Re: THEBats]
    #140585 - 11/04/08 08:51 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:
this whole thread is fucking retarded.  obama sucks.  mccain sucks.  get over it.  u can go back and forth all day about why not to vote for either one.




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InvisibleJollyGreenJRayV
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Re: obama is so great [Re: ezKiel]
    #140586 - 11/04/08 08:54 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I couldn't buy any beer until the polls closed at six  :crankey:

I was planning on being drunk by noon


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