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Offlinenewpala21
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coco med and nutris ?s
    #454772 - 08/03/10 10:10 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

ok im a first time grower thats about to attempt my first grow. its from a bagseed of sum ok stuff, basically this is a trial and error run.        Now i got some MG organic bonemeal, bloodmeal, i also got a bag of garden lime, some soil acidifer/conditioner and i also got a couple bags of worm castings and a couple bricks of coco coir. now im not looking to get a 8ft plant here but atleast a good size for a decent quantity of personal.
  so my question is at what ratios should i mix all this if im gonna do one plant,in a 2-3gal pot or do i only mix certain ones for planting and certain ones for feeding. i read alot but it seems that everyone has got a different method or in my opinion theres just way to much info and opinions to get a good idea on were to strat.
    Any and all advice is appreciated but a good mixing recipe is even better. Thanx to all who take time to help a first timer


Edited by newpala21 (08/03/10 11:59 PM)


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OfflineAgent 47
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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: newpala21]
    #454904 - 08/04/10 01:36 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/125037

Here's a link to a good mix. I don't see why you couldn't substitute coir for peat. I hear it's a good idea to run water through the coir before using due to the high salt content. Also with the lime, coir has a neutral pH of 7.0, so I don't know if you would use as much lime. I'm sure the ratio on the above link was due to the Peat Moss.

The worm castings, blood, and meal meal are good starts for Nitrogen & Phosphorus. Add some sort of Potassium in there and you got yourself a solid mix. Sulfate of Potash or Kelp meal could be an option for you.

Having a pretty good understanding of coir and how it reacts when saturated, it will probably be a good idea to throw some perlite in there for aeration.

Best of luck !


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Offlinenewpala21
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Registered: 07/27/10
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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: Agent 47]
    #455015 - 08/04/10 02:22 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

well iwas gonna use the coco with perlite mixed in it and yes i was gonna leach it good for potential salts in it. now i was also gonna make a tea with the worm castings but im unsure if i should mix in the bone and blood meal with it or should i jus mixit in a gal a with water and just water with that when needed. i dont have any guano, does anyone got an idea if ill be fine with what i got, i know the guano helps out alot but just curious if ill be fine without it. any other advice would be appreciated, thanx to all who help out.


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OfflineAgent 47
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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: newpala21]
    #455022 - 08/04/10 02:31 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

newpala21 said:
well iwas gonna use the coco with perlite mixed in it and yes i was gonna leach it good for potential salts in it. now i was also gonna make a tea with the worm castings but im unsure if i should mix in the bone and blood meal with it or should i jus mixit in a gal a with water and just water with that when needed. i dont have any guano, does anyone got an idea if ill be fine with what i got, i know the guano helps out alot but just curious if ill be fine without it. any other advice would be appreciated, thanx to all who help out.





I can't help you with the guano teas or anything, but I have used fermented plant extracts. I put a link up in this forum, no one responded, but I have had success with them. Their easy to make and plants are widely available in nature. I know people make tea's with earth worm castings, but I'm not sure about with bone and blood meal.

A link to my grow is in my signature. I used the mix that I linked to you and I'm having good results, no deficiencies or lockouts. Only teas I used were those fermented plant extracts, and I didn't use them much. What's nice about that mix is what you need is already in the soil and it breaks down slowly, just add "organic" water. Using tap water or any form of cholrinated water will kill of your microrganisms (also posted a GREAT link for understanding that) and make it hard for the nutrients to break down.


The only thing I did was top dress the plants with extra bone meal about a week before flowering, for the phosphorus.


One reason, I don't use guano is because of the unethical extraction, but the real reason is the expense :smirk:

I'm sure it wouldn't be real expensive if you had a few plants.


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OfflinePapaKush
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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: newpala21]
    #455069 - 08/04/10 05:22 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Boy o Boy you beginners just like jumping in head first don't you?

There are a million coco recipes all you have to do is take the effort to look for them.

As a beginner it's up to you to decide what medium to use but I'd recommend starting with real soil instead as with coco you have to make sure you give your plants EVERYTHING else they need, because the coco doesn't have anything to offer on its own. Also you need the guano for when the plant buds or you will have tiny ass nugs because worm castings lack the phosphorus and pottasium required by cannabis to grow big beautiful flowers.

Are you growing in your home or outside? Are you in the Northern Hemisphere? It's too late to start outside if you are to get a yield worth the effort. If your choosing to do it inside your home, the risk you're taking alone isn't worth the weed you're going to grow from your mediocre bagseed.

It's all on you, remember that. I just can't understand why beginners are willing to risk their freedom for a ghetto bagseed grow. Honestly it's quite a retarded notion.

Good luck all the same. There's only one way to learn how to grow, and that's by doing. But if you're going to DO IT, you should do it right.


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Offlinenewpala21
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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: PapaKush]
    #455073 - 08/04/10 05:47 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PapaKush said:
Boy o Boy you beginners just like jumping in head first don't you?

There are a million coco recipes all you have to do is take the effort to look for them.

As a beginner it's up to you to decide what medium to use but I'd recommend starting with real soil instead as with coco you have to make sure you give your plants EVERYTHING else they need, because the coco doesn't have anything to offer on its own. Also you need the guano for when the plant buds or you will have tiny ass nugs because worm castings lack the phosphorus and pottasium required by cannabis to grow big beautiful flowers.

Are you growing in your home or outside? Are you in the Northern Hemisphere? It's too late to start outside if you are to get a yield worth the effort. If your choosing to do it inside your home, the risk you're taking alone isn't worth the weed you're going to grow from your mediocre bagseed.

It's all on you, remember that. I just can't understand why beginners are willing to risk their freedom for a ghetto bagseed grow. Honestly it's quite a retarded notion.

Good luck all the same. There's only one way to learn how to grow, and that's by doing. But if you're going to DO IT, you should do it right.



well thanx for that reply, it seems good weed is worth going to jail for u but if u ask me no weed is worth going to jail for so ur reasoning is alittle off and retarded, its just all up to the person if they even wanna take the chance. so good or not either way it would suck to get nailed. imo id rather get nailed wit sum shity plant with barely any buds than a plant the size of a redwood wit like a qp on it.


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OfflinePapaKush
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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: newpala21]
    #455080 - 08/04/10 06:07 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

It is important for you to take the proper precautions or it's your ass not mine. I'm just trying to get you to consider more than you have. Good quality seeds or cuttings are not difficult to obtain.

When it comes to the cops if you are not a registered medical patient you can get yourself in big shit. And when theh weigh your shit they weigh pots, soil, and all, so whether your plant has a qp on it or not they can still fuck your shit up 'cause wet dirt weighs a lot too man, and cops are known to use as many dirty tricks as they can get away with to make you look like a bad guy.

If you got all your angles covered than by all means man go ahead and get planting, but still I gotta suggest you do soil first.

Peace and prosperity to ya.


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Offlinenewpala21
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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: PapaKush]
    #455118 - 08/04/10 07:36 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

ok i hear ya on all that. so whats wrong with coco and how is soil better than the next. from what i read it dont mattwer what u use as a med just aslong as u do everything right for the method ur using, and i just fond a grow n brew store that carries the bat guano so ima get that and get goin wit it. im just looking for a good recipe/ratio for what i got to use, i dont wanna use to little or to much if u get what im saying


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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: newpala21]
    #455141 - 08/04/10 08:38 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

In my experience soil produces better smelling and tasting bud and I spend less time checking and worrying about pH stability and nutrient availability.


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Offlinenewpala21
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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: PapaKush]
    #455377 - 08/05/10 01:56 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

ok well im sticking with their ive read to much on how good it is, but im still unsure on mixing ratios with bone n bloodmeal, and worm castings for soil and or watering. i was gonna make a tea with the castings but im not sure if i should mix the bone n blood in with the tea or just in the soil itself. oya im using a 2-3gal pot to grow in. i got the coir and perlite mixed in good with about a .5in of perlite on the bottom, so i just gotta figure out what to mix, how much and how often. ok now lets see all the coir users reply and help a man out..      thnx all


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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: newpala21]
    #455379 - 08/05/10 02:02 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)



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OfflineAgent 47
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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: newpala21]
    #455380 - 08/05/10 02:05 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

newpala21 said:
ok well im sticking with their ive read to much on how good it is, but im still unsure on mixing ratios with bone n bloodmeal, and worm castings for soil and or watering. i was gonna make a tea with the castings but im not sure if i should mix the bone n blood in with the tea or just in the soil itself. oya im using a 2-3gal pot to grow in. i got the coir and perlite mixed in good with about a .5in of perlite on the bottom, so i just gotta figure out what to mix, how much and how often. ok now lets see all the coir users reply and help a man out..      thnx all




Well, it seems you didn't read the link, so I'll post it in here for ya. :smirk:

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:
5 parts Canadian Spaghnam Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot (7.5g) of the soiless mix.
...Wal-Mart now sells worm castings.

A part can be anything, A coffee cup full, or a truckload full.

Now for the plants organic food source

RECIPE #1
If you want to use organic nutes like blood, bone and kelp...
Dry Ferts:
1 tablespoon blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of Jersey Greensand to supplement the K (potasium) in the Kelp Meal and seaweed extract.
Mix all the dry ferts into the soiless mix well and wet it, but don't soak it with Liquid Karma and water @ 1 tbs./gal. Stir and mix it a few times a week for a week or two so the bacteria can get oxygen and break down the bone meal and make it available. And don't let the mix dry out, keep it moist and add water as needed. It'll also have time to get the humic acids in the Liquid Karma going and the dolomite lime will be better able to adjust the pH of a peat based mixture too.

Veg mix-
1/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/3 cup High N Bat Guano (Mexican)
1/3 cup Earth Worm Castings (EWC)
5 tsp. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)
Mix with water @ 1 cup of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with every 3rd watering.

Flowering nute tea mix:

2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican)
(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)
Mix with water @ 2 cups of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with EVERY watering.

You can use queen size knee high nylon stockings for tea bags. 3 pair for a dollar at the dollar store. Tell 'em you use them for paint strainers. Put the recommended tea in the stocking, tie a loop knot in it and hang it in your tea bucket. The tea should look like a mud puddle. Agitate the bag in the water vigorously. An aquarium pump and air stone will dissolve oxygen into the solution and keep the good bacteria (microherd) alive and thriving. Let it bubble a day or two before you use it. If you find you are making too much tea and having to throw it out, use 2 1/2 gallons of water and cut the nute amount by half.


You COULD use bone and blood meal in a tea, but I think your best just adding it to your "soil" and use the guano teas listed as "nute teas".


--------------------



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Offlinenewpala21
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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: PapaKush]
    #455385 - 08/05/10 02:11 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

serioulsy dude, ive been reading for like 5days str8. i wouldnt be asking these questions if i found what i was asking about. i love how theres so many ppl on here with knowledge on all this and when u ask a question u dont get an answer instead u get pointed towards a thread. ever notice how alot of threads dont answer ur questions or just dont got enough info to assist u all the way.. plz nomore thread recommendations, i keep looking for them and i keep reading them, so plz if u dont got an answer/helpful opinion then plz dont waist both of our time with useless replies. thnx all


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Offlinenewpala21
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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: Agent 47]
    #455392 - 08/05/10 02:26 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Agent 47 said:
Quote:

newpala21 said:
ok well im sticking with their ive read to much on how good it is, but im still unsure on mixing ratios with bone n bloodmeal, and worm castings for soil and or watering. i was gonna make a tea with the castings but im not sure if i should mix the bone n blood in with the tea or just in the soil itself. oya im using a 2-3gal pot to grow in. i got the coir and perlite mixed in good with about a .5in of perlite on the bottom, so i just gotta figure out what to mix, how much and how often. ok now lets see all the coir users reply and help a man out..      thnx all




Well, it seems you didn't read the link, so I'll post it in here for ya. :smirk:

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:
5 parts Canadian Spaghnam Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot (7.5g) of the soiless mix.
...Wal-Mart now sells worm castings.

A part can be anything, A coffee cup full, or a truckload full.

Now for the plants organic food source

RECIPE #1
If you want to use organic nutes like blood, bone and kelp...
Dry Ferts:
1 tablespoon blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of Jersey Greensand to supplement the K (potasium) in the Kelp Meal and seaweed extract.
Mix all the dry ferts into the soiless mix well and wet it, but don't soak it with Liquid Karma and water @ 1 tbs./gal. Stir and mix it a few times a week for a week or two so the bacteria can get oxygen and break down the bone meal and make it available. And don't let the mix dry out, keep it moist and add water as needed. It'll also have time to get the humic acids in the Liquid Karma going and the dolomite lime will be better able to adjust the pH of a peat based mixture too.

Veg mix-
1/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/3 cup High N Bat Guano (Mexican)
1/3 cup Earth Worm Castings (EWC)
5 tsp. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)
Mix with water @ 1 cup of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with every 3rd watering.

Flowering nute tea mix:

2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican)
(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)
Mix with water @ 2 cups of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with EVERY watering.

You can use queen size knee high nylon stockings for tea bags. 3 pair for a dollar at the dollar store. Tell 'em you use them for paint strainers. Put the recommended tea in the stocking, tie a loop knot in it and hang it in your tea bucket. The tea should look like a mud puddle. Agitate the bag in the water vigorously. An aquarium pump and air stone will dissolve oxygen into the solution and keep the good bacteria (microherd) alive and thriving. Let it bubble a day or two before you use it. If you find you are making too much tea and having to throw it out, use 2 1/2 gallons of water and cut the nute amount by half.


You COULD use bone and blood meal in a tea, but I think your best just adding it to your "soil" and use the guano teas listed as "nute teas".



  ok well i got some of that and yes i read it 2days ago. i just kept looking and askin cuz i dont got all of those item, dont got kelp or liquid karma, or jersey greensand. would i be ok with out those to use, like i said im justy trying to use what i got and since i dont got all of that im not sure about the ratio measurements. thats basicaly why im askin these what seem to be silly and dumb questions, sorry if im annoying but i like to know exacts for sure before macking the attempt, kind of an ocd i guess


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Offlinenewpala21
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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: newpala21]
    #455400 - 08/05/10 02:42 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

just curious but should i mix the bone n bloodmeal in the coco and let it sit for a couple days before watering with the worm tea or should i just go head and mix it all in together and let it sit for a couple days. i know im a ding dong but the worlds needs me lol


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OfflineAgent 47
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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: newpala21]
    #455405 - 08/05/10 02:53 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

newpala21 said:
dont got kelp or liquid karma, or jersey greensand. would i be ok with out those to use...




No, you won't be okay, your missing K, in the NPK ratio. Your plants with display effects of potassium deficiency, such as yellowing leaves, and stunted growth.

This is what PapaKush was trying to tell you. Soil provides a cushion for when you don't have the EXACT amount on nutrients, Coir doesn't.

If you go with with you have now, your setting yourself up for failure.


HOWEVER, with all the right nutrients, correct pH, and proper lighting, coir can preform with any other growing medium.


--------------------



Agent Outdoor 2010


Edited by Agent 47 (08/05/10 03:18 PM)


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OfflineAgent 47
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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: newpala21]
    #455406 - 08/05/10 02:56 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I'd mix your bone, blood, earthworm castings, perlite, lime and coir all together and let it sit for a weak or so.

After which, you can water with your worm tea as you please.

Your going to want to provide a source of K. Sources or manure might be sufficient in providing you with your Potassium, but I can't make an guarantee's. Sulfate of Potash is cheap effective means of providing K.


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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: Agent 47]
    #455452 - 08/05/10 04:41 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Is money a serious issue for you? Or not an issue at all?

If it's not an issue then you can find the kelp or liquid karma or jersey greensand at one of your local plant nurseries or garden superstores. If you don't have access to that locally then you need to order it online. It's not going to break your bank. But again if money isn't your issue then I would also consider ordering some Canna nutrients that are specifically formulated to growing in coco and take a lot of the guess work out.

You also NEED to make sure you have a pH tester of some kind when working with coir, its a MUST HAVE. Growing in soil provides you with a buffer so nutrient lockouts and nutrient burns and pH stability will be less of a worry for a beginner such as yourself and you will get great results. Remember that coir is AN ALTERNATIVE to growing in soil, which is Mother Nature's own proven method.

I still strongly suggest you bail on the coco and learn the basics of soil and pH and nutrient availabilty with a buffer so you don't hurt your precious babies, because that's what they'll be to you, your babies. Won't somebody think of the children?!


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Offlinenewpala21
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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: PapaKush]
    #455523 - 08/05/10 06:51 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

ok i got ya, i see what ur sayin about the soil, well i had the coir i got from the pet store from an old mushie grow so it was in block form and i had to add water in order to brake it up, now i did that yesterday and rinsed it real good and let it drain over night. so today i went and mixed in some bone and bloodmeal  real good and gave it a decent watering and let it sit for about hlf hr and took the drainage and rewatered it, will that be fine till my worm tea is ready.
    now my first ? is should i not have mixed that in with the coir just yet. also, ok so now u got me convinced with the soil issue. now would some MG organic soil work just fine if i mixed it in with the coir and perlite opposed to ff or some other top grade soil, moneys not to tight but i did just have twins so im not looking to spend a whole lot more on supplies. and really quick im gonna go back and look it up but when making a worm tea do u have to have it bubbling outside in the sun or is it fine in doors were its like 75f, i got it under some of my lights bubbling but im just curious if i should move it into a warmer climate....    thnx all


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Re: coco med and nutris ?s [Re: newpala21]
    #455541 - 08/05/10 07:32 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Forget about everything you're working with right now for one minute and answer these questions for me.

How big a space are you working with?

What light(s) are you using?

Are you only growing one plant or many plants?

What size pot(s) are you using?

Are you having one full season chamber or separate veg and flower chambers?

Do you have a pH test kit or meter?

We literally know nothing except what you've told us. We know you don't have everything to complete the soil mix you desire, but you are steaming ahead anyway. You didn't confirm for us what ratios you mixed your bone and blood meal. We just know that you've mixed some of it together.

You should slow down and get everything prepared before you jump in or you're just going to sink my friend. I too was recently a father and I can appreciate how it affects spending, but like any hobby, indoor gardening has certain expenses.

You should mix all the ingredients together at one time, and ensure you have all the ingredients that you need. Let them sit together for a week or so, mixing it up occasionally.

Adding organic soil to your mix in a ratio of MINIMUM 50/50 will give you a buffer and give you the added benefits of coco aeration but also changes the amounts of other ingredients needed in your soil mix.

Proper planning is necessary to achieve large and dank yields in any medium. Help us help you.


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