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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: bEelzeBosS] * 1
    #732707 - 05/22/14 11:33 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

I don't use it,but I just read somewhere the other day that hollow stems are due to Ca/Mg issues, so I was thinking about adding it, but the plants are so nice that its hard to add something. I've had a little bit of Advanced Nutrients Ca/Mg from previous adventures that I used occasionally but didn't notice any difference, so I'm not in a big hurry to try it again, but I am considering adding a little bit during treatment for re-use.

Basically coco has micro holes that thc Ca/Mg sit in and reside (the reason for buffering, heavy molecules displaces the lighter salts) and interact with the plant-root interface and nutrients to deliver nutrients better than other mediums. Once its treated those Ca/Mg are essentially bound to the coco. The formula *should* have enough Ca/Mg in it and the medium buffered to not need it.

Using RO water theres potentially a problem, but cut out the Ca/Mg and see if it makes any difference. You might be addressing a problem you don't have.


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“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?


Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 679
Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #735637 - 06/10/14 03:08 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Well a hydro shop finally opened up somewhat close to my area so I went to buy some "real" coco coir to compare it to my shitty reptile bedding coir Ive been using. Shipping kills it for me to order online or I would have tried it out sooner.

The only brand he stocks is Botanicare Cocogro loose. Has anyone tried this stuff? It says double rinsed but Im going to soak some in some hot water and see what my PPM reading is before I trust that.


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #748580 - 09/17/14 11:00 AM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Need some more advice phych if you dont mind...

I took your advice for coco nutes, I LOVE Canna...A&B are perfect, I havent had an unhealthy plant since switching.

My question is about the PK 13/14. Ive been using it for one week as soon as I start to see flowers. Is this correct or should I use it later in flowering? Ive also been using @ full strength according to the bottle...6 mL/gallon. Am i using this stuff correctly?


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: bEelzeBosS]
    #748635 - 09/17/14 06:40 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

PK is for one week only, week 5 I believe. I use the PK at full strength but will reduce the A/B a little when that time comes.

I water till the coco is moist, but not to waste like recommended. I usually will flush right before I PK to make sure the coco is nice and clear and not going to have any problems with buildup.  Then flush a week+ before harvest, then plain water till the end. The plants will yellow a lot by the end.


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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
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Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 679
Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #756648 - 11/10/14 10:02 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Have another question for phychotron or anyone else that knows the answer.

During the last couple weeks of flower I switch to RO water only to get rid of all the nutrients, then I do an RO flush the day before harvest. For the last two weeks is it ok to water with just pure RO water that has a neutral ph or do I still need to bring the ph down to around 5.9 or so like I do when feeding?


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: bEelzeBosS]
    #756650 - 11/10/14 10:07 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bEelzeBosS said:
Have another question for phychotron or anyone else that knows the answer.

During the last couple weeks of flower I switch to RO water only to get rid of all the nutrients, then I do an RO flush the day before harvest. For the last two weeks is it ok to water with just pure RO water that has a neutral ph or do I still need to bring the ph down to around 5.9 or so like I do when feeding?




Your fine doing it the way you have been doing it. The ph thing is for nutrient intake. With the amount of time you're flushing for there isn't time to show nutrient deficiencies.

:happyweed:


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?


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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: Magash]
    #756651 - 11/10/14 10:14 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

That's what I figured but just wanted to make sure. Thanks dude.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: bEelzeBosS]
    #756676 - 11/10/14 05:08 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Two weeks of plain water is a good way to end a crop. I usually give 1-2 weeks of plain water, with a good flush a week before chopping so it can absorb the remaining non-flushed nutrients for a full week, then little to no water the last 2-3 days in order to suck out all the water in the coco (easier to reuse when dry).

Two weeks of plain water in coco and a good flush will usually let the plants yellow up quite a bit...I always harvest before the yellowing recedes into the bud. Usually by the time I'm ready to flush the plants are JUST beginning to show signs of their age with a little natural yellowing/lightening. I NEVER adjust pH when flushing, as stated, it is to aid nutrient absorption into the plant, whereas we are trying to NOT absorb the nutrients in the last few days.

It can be a couple days before the plant actually uses the nutrients that its absorbed, which is why I like to give it a flush a week prior so that it has nothing/little to build with for a whole week to ensure that there are no unused nutrients left in the plant.


not sure exactly how far from harvest this plant was, (real close) but here is the difference of a few days without nutrients at the end.

04/24 ~ 10 days till harvest


04/27 ~7 days till harvest (Flushed around this time)



05/04 ~0-2 days till harvest.


One thing I also go by when harvesting is water uptake rate, when they stop vigorously sucking up water the plant is pretty much ready to chop.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


Edited by phychotron (11/10/14 05:17 PM)


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Offlinewebster10


Registered: 12/15/13
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #756680 - 11/10/14 05:44 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)


:loveeyes: Do you use any flushing products that supposedly leech out the nutrients? Or is this the result of just plain straight up tap water for the whole flush?


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: webster10]
    #756746 - 11/10/14 10:39 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I just run tap water through it. Canna Nutrients are very forgiving and don't leave much residue. I have it set up to be able to run a ton of water through.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #756772 - 11/11/14 02:01 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Nice, is that an 8x4 tent?

Tell us about it :o You air cooling your lights? What you running for exhaust?


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: captain.koons]
    #756774 - 11/11/14 02:40 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

ya 4x8. i have a booster fan sucking in air from the 4x4 veg tent into the flower tent, then the 8" exhaust on a temp/humidity controller.

http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/733408

thats my basic setup


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #756780 - 11/11/14 07:33 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Oh neat, I didn't realize it was LEDs. When I have extra cash I'd love to do a LED grow in a tent with added CO2. I have some friends that are co2 converts, amazing results but hardly worth while when you consider the additional cooling costs when using HPS especially in tents. it would be sick as tits to crush 2gpw.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: captain.koons]
    #756782 - 11/11/14 08:27 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Not sure how that would work, as you'll still need some sort of cooling for the lights. If I don't keep the exhaust fan running it will build up heat. You'd need some sort of cool-tube for your lights so that you could collect the exhaust heat separate from the garden.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #756787 - 11/11/14 09:22 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

LEDs must run much much cooler than HPS. So at the very least they would be easier to manage with an AC vs. HPS. I didn't mean, no exhaust or AC at all.

Tent would have co2 on a controller ideally speaking, AC would be used to maintain temps and exhaust outside, and you would need a fresh air exchange however often ie. mostly sealed/perfect environment. I have a friend with a low tech co2 setup in his tent, he just has a regulator to pour disperse x amount of co2/hour and he figured out what the average ppms would be given his exhaust, room size, and air turbulence based on whatever manufacturer guidelines. I don't know how accurate that is but he's happy with the results. He also works for a place that distributes dry ice and tanks full of various gases so he just fills up for free.

4kw of light for most people = 250-350 cfm per 1kw in my case i'd probably be using two x 8" can fans = 500w and worse case for the AC would be 1100w so 5600w total probably have a small fan to exhaust the volume of the room twice a day or whatever is recommended. 5.6 kw /hr * 60days*12hours*$0.2=$806.40 in electricity alone under full ac/fan load. Whatever LED amount I found to cover say 1600 watt vs 4000 for "equivalent yields" (Granted this costs $7200 or would have from LEDgirl, then I'd just need to figure out the best/cheapest method of cooling I have no idea how it would compare. If I saved half of the electricity costs, I'd pay the LEDs off by electricity savings in just under 3 years! I still don't know how I feel about LEDs. In that time i'd probably also spend around $1500-2000 on bulbs alone.

What's the best priced / performance LEDs on the market?


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OfflineGoonerHeClips
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Registered: 08/24/14
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #756813 - 11/11/14 02:02 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
I just run tap water through it. Canna Nutrients are very forgiving and don't leave much residue. I have it set up to be able to run a ton of water through.




Do you use Canna Boost in flowering?  If so, recommended amount?


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: GoonerHeClips]
    #756835 - 11/11/14 06:52 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

GoonerHeClips said:
Quote:

phychotron said:
I just run tap water through it. Canna Nutrients are very forgiving and don't leave much residue. I have it set up to be able to run a ton of water through.




Do you use Canna Boost in flowering?  If so, recommended amount?




I did, but now i'm using the Boost and Rhizotonic alternative from MBFerts. Seems to work well, cant see any difference.  Boost is way too expensive for what it is, and I end up not using it like I should because of it.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: captain.koons]
    #756837 - 11/11/14 06:58 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

captain.koons said:
LEDs must run much much cooler than HPS. So at the very least they would be easier to manage with an AC vs. HPS. I didn't mean, no exhaust or AC at all.

Tent would have co2 on a controller ideally speaking, AC would be used to maintain temps and exhaust outside, and you would need a fresh air exchange however often ie. mostly sealed/perfect environment. I have a friend with a low tech co2 setup in his tent, he just has a regulator to pour disperse x amount of co2/hour and he figured out what the average ppms would be given his exhaust, room size, and air turbulence based on whatever manufacturer guidelines. I don't know how accurate that is but he's happy with the results. He also works for a place that distributes dry ice and tanks full of various gases so he just fills up for free.

4kw of light for most people = 250-350 cfm per 1kw in my case i'd probably be using two x 8" can fans = 500w and worse case for the AC would be 1100w so 5600w total probably have a small fan to exhaust the volume of the room twice a day or whatever is recommended. 5.6 kw /hr * 60days*12hours*$0.2=$806.40 in electricity alone under full ac/fan load. Whatever LED amount I found to cover say 1600 watt vs 4000 for "equivalent yields" (Granted this costs $7200 or would have from LEDgirl, then I'd just need to figure out the best/cheapest method of cooling I have no idea how it would compare. If I saved half of the electricity costs, I'd pay the LEDs off by electricity savings in just under 3 years! I still don't know how I feel about LEDs. In that time i'd probably also spend around $1500-2000 on bulbs alone.

What's the best priced / performance LEDs on the market?




1600w of LED does not equal 4000w HID, that's all bullshit. Its true for lettuce maybe.

I like Advanced LED, they just came out with a new light, the XTE that looks promising, probably the next light I get. I like the 400w lights (370w actual) for their shape and size, they cover a 2.5x4' area each.  There are a few other brands out there like GrowBlu that I'm using and like, but still think Advanced's new light will be better.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #756927 - 11/12/14 03:23 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Is there a standardized equivalent?

I'd probably, as it stands, get 600-800w in a 4x4 to see the growth potential.

Have you heard of Apollo? Very good reviews on amazon. They also seem pretty cheap on amazon, I can also get 50% amazon gift cards.

http://www.apollohorticulture.com/cob-768w.html#prettyPhoto


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: captain.koons]
    #756932 - 11/12/14 04:20 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

captain.koons said:
Is there a standardized equivalent?

I'd probably, as it stands, get 600-800w in a 4x4 to see the growth potential.

Have you heard of Apollo? Very good reviews on amazon. They also seem pretty cheap on amazon, I can also get 50% amazon gift cards.

http://www.apollohorticulture.com/cob-768w.html#prettyPhoto




So I would put two XTE400's in a 4x4 tent and say that your pretty much maxed out on light potential. You could probably push it and do some crazy side lighting scheme to really get deep, but for the most part those ~740w will deliver as much light as you'd need. I'd love to see a side by side of two XTE400's vs a 1000w HPS. A friend has a 1000w in a 4x4 and its really pushing it on heat, in fact he can't start anything until he's solved that problem. We ran the bulb for less than 5 minutes and it was insanely hot in there.

The thing with LED's is that you want to spread the lights out as much as possible, so that one apollo for say a 4x4 area is not anywhere near ideal. Those 'COB' styles seem to be getting popular but I'm still not sold on them. I wouldn't get a light off amazon, they seem to only pass on generics or lower end stuff. Not saying you can't find one or the light is good, but its not the style I like. Its good to get it from a vendor who is developing the lights to grow bud, not just a "plant grow light."


Here's the light canopy for those plants above-- spread out to reduce shading from a single-point source. In my 4x8 I'm running 1270w utilizing a 4x6 grow area with a little overhang.



Also, because your running less wasted light, you end up running your garden a bit warmer as well.

I've derailed too many threads talking about LED's... Start a new thread if you want to talk about LED's.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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