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InvisiblephychotronM
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LED Grapegod Late Spring '14
    #733408 - 05/29/14 05:29 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Following a somewhat disappointing harvest in this thread, I've got the next batch looking much better. I spent a bit more time tying down and pinching stems to try and make everything as secure and uniform as possible. The plants are much larger than last time as well.

Basically refining my technique and improving harvests this time. Round two
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Parameters

Strain: Grapegod, perpetual clones--no mother plant just bottom branch trimming and cloning when I throw plants into flower. Seventh or eighth generation still going strong with no signs of genetic decline like some skeptics expect.

Lighting: All LED. Veg: (2) Blackstar-240UV (130w each), (2) Advanced LED DS100 (95w each). Just one light at first then two and four as they grew.
Flower: (4) Advanced LED DS100 and (1) DS400 (395w), GrowBlu Apollo-240 (500w) For a total of ~1270w in the flower room.

Area: 4x8 tent, utilizing a 4x6 area for airflow on the ends.

Medium: Coco Coir, Hydroponic - Drain to waste. (6) 5-gallon pots using about 4 gallons of coco. Reused and treated as per Canna's instructions.

Nutrients: Canna Coco + additives. Dyna-grow Pro-tekt potassium silicate, Humboldt nutrients' Verde (veg only). Advanced Nutrients pH down.

Bug spray: Monterey's Garden Spray (active ingredient Spinosad, organic) in veg to combat Thrips. Population controlled in veg - two applications a few days apart. Only a minor infestation but still present from previous crops.

Temp/Humidity: 70-84F/40-55%, max set to 84.5F,55%rH then the fan comes on. Input booster fan between the two tents is always on, blowing into the flower tent.



Veg (41 days)


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Day 00


This is how long I like to get the roots before I transplant. Any longer and its harder to fill in entirely. The plants love getting planted at this phase, as they are less likely to yellow from too long in the cloner. s Using the scrape technique in the aerocloner works wonders. This one's not that impressive, but some batches get hundreds of roots coming out of the stem like firework exploding.  I also load up the aerocloner with three to four clones per collar, and its fine because the roots don't get tangled.

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Day 01


Started with nine clones in the 1L airpots in order to choose six that are closest match in size.


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Day 12




Behold the power of the 1L airpot, best bang for your buck when it comes to transplanting. Prepares the roots  (air prune) for immediate growth once transplanted to a larger container. Coco coir is unrestrictive when it comes to the plant digging in and taking root. 


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Day 14



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Day 17



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Day 18



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Day 22



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Day 27



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Day 31


Bent a lot of the branches over so they could spread out as well as get a nice fat main stem. They're suppose to be nutrient super highways at those points. I like the way it strengthens the branch and less likely to sag as much.


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Day 34


Sprung right back to life. These grew fast, mostly because of the 1L airpots prepping it for transplant and 4-5 gallons of coco coir. I used three gallons of coco last time and they didn't have quite enough space to truly flourish. 

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Day 41 (final)

One thing I cannot stress enough is that the plant gets a pace going, and when its in that vigorous growth phase the plant takes to flowering much much better than a plant that was stalled for any reason. Its never a good idea to just flip the switch on a plant that has relatively dormant growth tips. Flowering is like a race, and if you get a running start up to the starting line you'll do much better than someone who starts from a dead stop. Plants sometimes never get up to full speed when they go into flower without vigor.



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Flower

Planning on 49-56 days.

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Day 01


Trimmed the lower branches and tied all the larger branches down well so they should be good for the entire 8 weeks. I left a lot of lower branches, as the plant can surprise me with the amount of bud those lower branches produce. I also just toss those leafy bits into the BHO pile so its not like it matters that its not dense bud. The theory of cutting of those lower buds so the plant can focus on the main colas is a fine balance, as you can get more weight overall leaving them on the grapegod. My all time record was a few grows back with 11 oz off of one plant that was in the back center and didn't get trimmed up very well. I've been aiming for that ever since.


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Day 08
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Day 15



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Day 19



Going strong. The plants are about done stretching and are showing signs of nutrient burn on the very tips of some of the leaves. Good timing since I already had a flush scheduled for the next watering. They've been sucking down lots of water and nutrients, taking down 9 gallons every two days, and in the first 19 days I've already spent 80% of cost of nutrients from the entire last crop that went 55 days. From the looks of things it should be worth the extra nutrients. The plants are about 3' tall and I've been pinching them back to prevent stretching. I've also slowly been moving the lights up. I didn't bother lowering the lights in early flower last time and they showed it.

This time the lights are only about a foot away from the top of the canopy. I'm going to leave it kinda close so that they can penetrate deep, as the grapegod has so many side branches that turn out to be major producers. I expect some light bleached white colas but the LED light is so gentle on the plant that despite turning it white it still smokes and feels the same.


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Day 21

The buds are starting to fill in. Some of the buds are much too close to the light and will be white topped. I'm leaving the lights  close in order to get the penetration since the plants are so tall and bushy. You can kind of see in the last photo that the tip is starting to turn white.





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Day 23

Flushed the other day an fed again two days later. These plants really are sucking down the water. Which is a very good sign, plants basically pass water from the roots to the leaf to the atmosphere and the nutrients are carried with. I'm sure the plant uses water in other ways, but its the elevator the nutrients need. Now that I have the drain to waste setup proper I'm seeing better growth and faster feeding, as the concentration of nutrients (salt buildup) make it harder for the plant to grab the water, as it wants to stick to the salts that are in a traffic jam to get into the plant. By not having that excess +/- charged particles it allows the water to flow into the plant at an accelerated pace. One more reason to switch to coco--constant flushing makes for an optimal root zone.

These plants have about a gallon more coco than the last crop, which I think is also helping to support the plants size and vigor. Three gallons was a bit too little, four seems about perfect, and five makes the plants too big or it doesn't hardly root the lower half of the coco.




Watch your cats around your plants, they like it better than catnip.

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Day 24

Some natural color photos. Hard to get a good canopy photo.



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Day 27

Coming right along, started P-K week. Some colas are showing light bleaching.




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Day 28

Showing signs of brown tips so I think I'll feed it lower base nutrients while it gets P-K this week, then a flush before the last week of nutrients.




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Day 33

Looking good and starting to swell up. Entered PK week a few days ago and forgot to PK them today when I watered, so I think I'll go another day or two with PK.

They're taking down 9 gallons every 2 days. Cut the base nutrients for PK week, ~80% strength. I've also continued to feed silica, which I normally cut out at the end of week three.




The third and fourth picture are the same bud, showing the light bleaching. In the fourth you can see two behind it out of focus that also have white tips developing.




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Day 35

Looking sweet as always. Trying out the new macro lens and tube and all kinds of different options. The one combination of the stuff in one of the last photos gave the buds a halo effect. I'm learning to get those really good high res macro shots but its tough to get in there cause the camera needs to be 1/4" away from the nug and the jitter correction doesn't work as good because of all the lenses and its tricky, but some came out really well.

Trying to get those white buds with the camera are the hardest. It will get easier as they get more white, but I'd like to get some of those early bleaching shots. I need to block the light so that its not so bright cause the white just blends into the background white.




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Day 37

Some natural color lighting makes it easier to see the buds and how the leaf is responding as it comes to the end of week 5 and starting to lighten all over





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Day 41

Buds are getting fat and branches are keeling over. I had to tie a few up but hopefully the bulk of them will be supported by the tomato cages. They are putting in a lot of work, and having something rigid to tie to makes it easy. Plus the rings keep the height you tie it at, unlike bamboo that may slide down as time goes on.




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Day 48

Didn't get to feed it properly for the last week, went to a festival for three days and set up an res tank and pump to water while I was gone. Going to chop soon because I need to take care of some business next week that will not allow me to let them go much further. I'm also almost out of bud, so I need to chop soon for that reason. I wanted to go a bit longer but the combination of being busy and the yellowing of the leaves from lack of food make this one a short one. I think I'll extend the next crop, as its going longer in veg as well (only cause I didn't transplant early enough.



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Day 51

Buds are starting to fill out, even going into that next phase of growth. Not sure how much longer I'm going with them. Was thinking wednesday or thursday.  Loving the new camera, got some great multi color shots under one of the LED's where the bud is nearly touching.

Also got a few macro shots of the white nuggets. Hard to get a descent shot on those white buds.


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Day whatever

Went out of town for a few days, came back to a heat wave and all the plants dry to a crisp. Had to do an emergency harvest. The cat knocked out the pump timer a few days early. Stuff was so dry that buds were falling off and laying in the tray, with some standing waste water. So I lost a few oz's to being bone dry, lots more shake than expected and a few oz's that were laying on the ground will need to be turned to oil. ~30oz total but only about 20 of good buds.

Currently trying to rehydrate the buds a little. Plastic tubs with paper bags full of flower, Boveda 62% in with the buds, and a few leaf's of lettuce in between the paper and plastic, using the paper as a buffer. Its actually working quite well after a day or so, the bag is moist from the lettuce and the buds have a much less brittleness to them. They were so dry that when you just stick your hand in the bag it'd just start breaking apart.
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--------------------
Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

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View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


Edited by phychotron (07/12/14 09:38 PM)


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OfflineDoc
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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: phychotron]
    #733639 - 05/30/14 09:16 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Damn this is gonna be awesome man, I thought your yield in the last one was good but you're gonna try to push it up even more? I guess you're going for 1g/w...something I used to think would be easy to achieve with practice...I'm probably still barely reaching .5g/w.
Will be following along for sure. Thanks for the detailed write up and the advice, I really like what you said about flowering being like a race, that was very insightful.

Do you think using the canna nutrients is a big part of what is helping you get bigger yields or would these types of yields be just as do-able with say fox farm or botanicare?


Edit: great info man thats helpful as I've had issues in coir in the past. I have bales of 3 cubic feet 3:1 compressed coco coir but not using it because I believe it is untreated and perhaps even unrinsed, but I am looking into using it in the future. What you mentioned about the coco specific nutrients perhaps explains issues I've had in the past using organic dry fertilizers and manures with coco.


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Edited by Doc (05/31/14 04:29 PM)


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: Doc]
    #733715 - 05/30/14 04:29 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks, I know the plants can do much better than they did last time, it really was a rushed crop and I didn't take care of the plants that well. The record for the tent was 42oz, with the center/back plant producing a mind blowing 11oz since I didn't trim as much of the lower branches. So I know its possible to get a good huge yield.


As for the nutrients, Its hard to say how much the Canna is specifically contributing. I'm pretty sure you'd be able to get similar results with other brands, I stick with Canna for a few reasons. First, its one of the best nutrients for sitting in a tank, they are very stable--you can top off the tank for a few weeks without a bunch of tank scum. Coco coir was used as a filler until Canna came along and developed a technique to treat and use it in hydroponics. Basically they started the trend of growing in all coco.

The price per ounce is pretty reasonable, ~$2.50 in nutrient costs. I was using Advanced Nutrients but kept having salt buildup issues. Canna is very easy to mix since they give you the bottle with the measuring cup built in.

At full strength I'm looking at a max of 900ppm, which makes it nice and gentle on the plant. AN's was all over the place, sometimes it'd be 1700ppm, sometimes 1100 using the same formula. I feed full strength or mostly full strength the whole time in flower and the plants seem to like it. They did start showing signs of yellow at the very tips of some shade leaves but I just flushed it at the start of week 4 and might back down on the strength as the next flush gets closer. It seems to help that I'm actually doing a drain to waste, the last one was fed smaller amounts at a time to where they would not have any runoff. The runoff helps keep the coco flushed.


The base nutrient was designed for coco, so I would imagine that if you were to try another brand you might want to get a coco specific nutrient, as their is some chemistry with the way the Ca/Mg interacts with the coco. Most hydroponic nutrients should work fine in coco, just got to find that magic formula.

Canna is a very simple line, Base A/B + zym every feeding, then Rhizo in veg and small amounts in flower, Boost during flower, PK for one week, and thats it.

I think my next adventure is Triacontanol, the active ingredient in Boost. And Hydrolyzed Whey protein, which is what AN's Big Bud is.


--------------------
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View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: phychotron]
    #733812 - 05/31/14 03:33 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Day 23 updated


--------------------
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Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: phychotron]
    #734097 - 06/01/14 01:01 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Day 24


--------------------
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View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: phychotron]
    #734382 - 06/03/14 11:18 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I have some questions about your clone bucket.

Is it a custom lid?

Is the lid on upside down?

Are those metal "sleeves" there to help stop the "oh crap I dropped my disc into the bucket" moments?

Did the metal sleeves come with the bucket or are they add-ons?

Did you grow this in the bucket head down or head up?



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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #734388 - 06/03/14 11:51 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

The lid is just one of those heavy duty plant saucers with 2" holes. Then I cut the bottoms of plastic 2" net pots since its impossible to drill a perfectly round hole that holds a clone collar. Plus clone collars shrink as you use them (I prefer older used collars so its easier to hold 3-4 clones each.) You can see the bottoms of a few of the net pots bent in a bit to keep them from slipping all the way through.


This was the first lid I made with a different brand saucer. It was thinner and I cracked it while making it but kept using it for a long time. The pump tube was just a piece of PVC to a T with clear hose loop with a bunch of spray heads drilled in. To keep the ring from drooping I have a piece of fish line tied in a loop and slip the ring into it.


At first I tried to use silicone to hold the net pots down but it was completely not needed and I had to remove it after it immediately started falling apart. The saucer I use now is much nicer and had a flat surface for the plant to sit on, whereas the saucer in the above photo had small raised areas that needed to be leveled for the net pot to sit proper. I recommend the flat surface. The bottom is not important.


For the price of a pump, bucket, plant saucer, clone collars, net pots, 2 PVC parts, ~1 foot of hose and some spray heads you can have a nice 13 site aerocloner capable of holding 50+ clones. The trick is to plant them when they look like the above photo and the roots don't get tangled. I think the parts come out to around $40. I also bought the 2" hole saw but I've used it a few times since then also.


He should have went in head first, live and learn I guess. Interestingly enough you can get cats faster than you can grow bud. Pregnant for 9 weeks (veg) and 8 weeks before they're ready for adoption (flower). Sure they're not fully grown but they weigh a lot more.


--------------------
Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

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View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: phychotron]
    #734422 - 06/03/14 03:01 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the info. I didn't spend much more on my 12 hole unit, but I imagine that the satisfaction you get from the home-made unit is far greater. Craftsmanship is clearly not dead.


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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #734542 - 06/03/14 10:43 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I had a feeling hydrolyzed whey protein would be good for bud, but it was sort of a hunch and I haven't experimented with it yet...I actually posted about it in another forum here. I think I'm also going to try out the triacontanol it sounds legit from what I read. supposedly 100% increases in yields.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: Doc]
    #734547 - 06/03/14 11:13 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I ordered MB Hormone-Vitamin Booster from MBferts.com instead of the Triacontanol direct, since this also has other stuff in it. Figured I'd give their mix a try first. It also saves the hassle of mixing it up at first.

MBferts' big bud replacement is Hydrolyzed whey protein and P-K. They have a $25 minimum order so I got the booster and some whey protein, should be interesting next crop.


--------------------
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View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: phychotron]
    #734726 - 06/05/14 07:24 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Day 27 and 28th photos posted

got the stuff from MB, gonna use up the rest of the Canna Boost on this grow and then try this next.



--------------------
Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

Perfect Dry and Cure
View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: phychotron]
    #734823 - 06/05/14 04:44 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Damn tron lookin good as usual I'm half tempted to just us my led over my big scrog but i don't think it will do much with only 165w. 
Did u ever run into your tips bleaching from your leds?


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: Normlizer]
    #734862 - 06/05/14 07:31 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)



ya but its not really a problem. What LED do you have?


--------------------
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View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: phychotron]
    #734879 - 06/05/14 08:25 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

just some generic led thats rated at 224w but only pulls about 165w from the wall.  =/


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: Normlizer]
    #734909 - 06/05/14 11:17 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Ya, those are not the best way to go with LED usually. They will get you bud but its not going to be optimal or as dense or as fast. Some people only need a bit of bud and the cheap one's can serve their needs, but its rare that you grow bud and don't want to get the most out of it.


--------------------
Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

Perfect Dry and Cure
View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: phychotron]
    #735582 - 06/10/14 05:22 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Day 33 updated



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Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: phychotron]
    #735846 - 06/12/14 07:10 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Day 35 update



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Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: phychotron]
    #735930 - 06/12/14 07:53 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

How many grows have you ran LED lights?  I have been wanting to make the switch but I can see in your tent that you have several LED's.  What brand LED's do you have experience with and recommend?  I currently run a 1k HPS in a 5x5 tent.  I will be upgrading to a 8x5 or 10x10 this Winter.


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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: ShroomingChaos]
    #735947 - 06/12/14 10:43 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I have a few years, started with some cheaper Blackstar fixtures (not recommended) and moved up to Advanced LED (ds-100 and ds400) the white fixtures you see. The last light I bought was the GrowBlu Apollo 240 (black one in the back of the flower tent) and like both of those brands. I think the GrowBlu make it a little easier to keep the light working over the 10 year life span since you can replace modules instead of a whole row going out in year 4 after the warranty ends.

I would put two of the GrowBlu 240's in the 5x5, running 1002w (actual, still less than 1000w HPS bulb) and those fixtures will be good for that 5' wide area.

Its hard to say exactly what would be best, but those would be some good fixtures to start with. Advanced LED also has the XML-350 which is suppose to be good, but I haven't had any actual experience with it.

I'm aiming to replace those smaller DS100 fixtures, I just have them because I got them from my brother for free and haven't swapped out the four for a bigger fixtures. I think I'll get another GrowBlu instead of the DS400, although I kind of like the DS400's area coverage a little better since it covers a 4' wide area.


--------------------
Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

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View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,490
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Re: LED Grapegod Late Spring '14 [Re: phychotron]
    #736128 - 06/14/14 07:07 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Day 37 in natural color



--------------------
Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

Perfect Dry and Cure
View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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