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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?


Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 679
Questions about coco coir
    #730876 - 05/10/14 12:29 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Every time my coir starts to dry out and I re-water, the runoff is a very reddish "rust" color. It eventually runs clear after Ive put enough water through it, but the very next time I water its very dark again. I do flush my coir with very hot water for awhile to remove salt and then room temp RO water until it runs clear before I plant. But then once it dries and needs re-watering its rusty again.

After a few weeks of this it starts to run clear every time and Ive noticed while its still running out rusty my plants growth are stunted but once it finally starts to runoff clear all the time(or close to it) they grow fine.

Any suggestions or is this normal?


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:firecum:


Edited by bEelzeBosS (09/17/14 10:55 AM)


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InvisibleInocuole
The Wind Fish

Registered: 01/29/14
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: bEelzeBosS]
    #730924 - 05/10/14 05:37 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Good question, I was wondering this as well.


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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: Inocuole]
    #730940 - 05/10/14 08:14 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

What kind of set up is this? Hydro? Drip irrigation?


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: bEelzeBosS] * 1
    #730956 - 05/10/14 10:25 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I've used brick coco once, it was horrible. I had already tried a bagged/prepped coco (readygro by Botanicare) and knew what it was capable of. Since then I've never considered using the brick. I go mostly for the Canna Coco since I'm already on their nutrients, but also they have the highest standards when it comes to coco. House and garden makes a decent one too, and there are a few others that work, but its not that much more $ when you plan on reusing it 3-5 times. I dont know about that reddish color from the brick but I've never seen it with the 'premium' stuff. Canna is fresh water rinsed and ensured that its ready for use, treated with cal/mg, trichoderma fungi and salt free. Its aggregated to hold the perfect moisture/air balance. I'm not sure how far other brands go with their coco, but theres a long few month long process it has to go through, and one easily skimped on. 

Canna makes a brick treatment called CoGr that is suppose to work good if you want to use bricks and do the wash work, but I can't find myself to want to save that little bit of cash and add a shit ton of work. You'd probably just need the buffering agent if you didn't want to switch nutrients (but they have a good line, simple and effective). When I reuse the bag coco they say to treat it with a double dose of cannaZym the day before, sifting the roots out with a net pot works amazing. It takes sometimes a few days for the plant to adjust slightly, but its generally well received. The hard part is getting enough nutrients into the coco at first. I start out with full strength right from the go, or 2/3rds strength if I'm 'feelin it' for a 650-900ppm solution. It usually always needs full strength nutrients from the go. Even clones get that dosage when coming out of the aerocloner and into the coco. Coco is, or should be, so inert that the plants start to yellow and die from lack of nutrients immediately after rooting.


Definitely not normal for your plants to grow like shit for awhile while your coco adjusts. It wasn't ready to use if its doing that sort of thing with just water through it.


Advanced nutrients has a red tint to it that is hard to flush out entirely. Most nutrients have some sort of color that will indicate how flushed they are, Canna is light green. It doesn't seem like thats the problem though.


The cheapest I've found the 50L Canna Coco online is $36 after shipping. Its $30 after tax at the hydro store. hydro stores will do the 40L bags for $20 of House and Garden coco which is next in line. I use ~2.5 bags of the Canna to fill six 5 gallon pots @ ~4gal each. Its only about $100 per year in coco when you reuse it. I have two batches going back and forth and will add fresh coco to fill the pots all the way, but usually I start the clones in the new stuff if I can.


So my suggestion is to start with a 'premium' ready to use coco and see how that compares. Canna support also suggested not to use perlite with their product line, or very sparingly. They formulated the mix for that ideal air-moisture balance in order to eliminate using perlite. Botanacare's Readygro comes in two mixes, I've only used the aeration formula that was 50/50 with good results. I prefer pure coco to a perlite mix for a drain to waste setup, it holds together well and the roots grow unrestricted in the coco. I could see where maybe if you were doing ebb/flow it might be beneficial. Coco has better interaction with the plant than perlite, probably thanks to that Ca/Mg exchange.


Check out my latest grow log, a site error cut most of the log out and I'm trying to get it recovered but the good part is that the water system is in the beginning.  I've been refining my watering system and have it almost down where I like it. You can get a slimed down version of whats missing if you scroll through the thread.


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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?


Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 679
Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #731010 - 05/11/14 09:55 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Awesome post, thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

I decided to switch to coco for two reasons - one because I'm tired of dealing with fungus gnats, and more importantly because I have a LOT of bricks leftover from my mushroom hobby Ive gotten bored with. I dont want all these bricks to just go to waste ( I literally have at least 50 of them) so I'm going to use them up but I guess I'll rinse them for days before I use them instead of just an hour. I'll also try CoGr, maybe that will help too.

Interesting that you start your seedlings/clones in such a high PPM, Ive been using less than 300 because of a PPM table I found somewhere and was worried even that was too high. My plants are as healthy looking as can be but are growing extremely slow. I'll try upping the PPM as well and switch to Canna's nutes.

Hopefully all these changes will at least make my bricks decent until I can use them all up and switch to Canna coco. Thanks again!


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:firecum:


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?


Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 679
Re: Question about coco coir [Re: Zombi3]
    #731012 - 05/11/14 09:57 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Zombi3 said:
What kind of set up is this? Hydro? Drip irrigation?




Its just coco/perlite in pots that I treat like soil except I have to feed every time and flush more often.


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:firecum:


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InvisibleInocuole
The Wind Fish

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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: bEelzeBosS]
    #731016 - 05/11/14 10:33 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I take it you're using the bricks too?

I have them laying around from mushroom substrates, so without any prior knowledge I thought it was a good idea to use it too.  Luckily for me the only thing I have growing in coir is catnip.


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?


Registered: 11/15/13
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: Inocuole]
    #731035 - 05/11/14 11:35 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
I take it you're using the bricks too?

I have them laying around from mushroom substrates, so without any prior knowledge I thought it was a good idea to use it too.  Luckily for me the only thing I have growing in coir is catnip.




Yeah, a few of these and a LOT of these.

I have read several places that although they're not ideal for growing they can be used fine with enough flushing. I assumed an hour of constant flushing with hot water would be plenty but apparently I was wrong.

Here's a couple white widows I have growing in this crap, been in it since they were clipped from their mom. They're doing great, I just transplanted out of dixie cups but they're a month old already and obviously they were growing very slow...once I finally got the water to run clear every time they started growing at a normal pace though. That's why from now on Im not going to plant anything in this stuff until it runs clear every time for several days in a row.



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:firecum:


Edited by bEelzeBosS (05/11/14 11:41 AM)


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InvisibleInocuole
The Wind Fish

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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: bEelzeBosS]
    #731043 - 05/11/14 12:41 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Is the water bill and effort worth all that?  I've had sort of a bumpy start but perlite seemed pretty easy to handle comparatively.  I've heard so many good things about coir though, I guess I'll save my bricks for my substrates and get some of that nice shit for my next round of plants.  I like the passive hydro thing so far, for the most part, but coir seems a better choice for a few reasons, and I hate having to carry my big ass plant into the kitchen and water/flush it there.  Having a system that handles that would be great.

Incidentally I think the brick coir I used for that catnip plant was left over from a substrate batch and it had been pasteurized.  I wonder if that had any benefit?


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InvisibleMr. Wilson
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: Inocuole]
    #731051 - 05/11/14 02:21 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

fuck I mixed in a bit with my compost for transplants to lighten it up

used the zoomed I use for shrooms

I shoulda used perlite but all we got round here is the miracle grow bullshit

damn I hope I didn't mess up


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bit of last year's bounty


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?


Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 679
Re: Question about coco coir [Re: Inocuole]
    #731063 - 05/11/14 03:32 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Is the water bill and effort worth all that?




Not that much effort, I'll just put a bunch in a pillow case and run hot water through it a couple times a day in my shower until it runs clear. I plan on doing this for 4-5 days in a row, hopefully by the last day it will run clear immediately. Doubt I'll even notice it on my water bill either.


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:firecum:


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: Mr. Wilson]
    #731064 - 05/11/14 03:33 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Brick coco works better as an additive than using it alone, it depends on how much of a coco mix you used, but if its not a shit ton then it won't be as devastating as using it as a primary medium.  The organic components tend to take care of it.

I've tried feeding the clones the Canna Start solution but @4-500ppm its not strong enough.  Canna is so gentle on the plant that its almost impossible to mess up with one full strength feeding.



I start the clones in coco as soon as they look like this (2-3 per clone collar since I don't let the roots tangle)

so they can dig right in. They grow so fast that if they don't get fed they just yellow. In the past I've used a "seed starting mix" that was fine ground brown dust that would pool water, sit overnight and still be pooled up and bone dry 1/4" down. Impossible to use alone but mixed with the coco it works great for keeping the plant sustained for that first few days. That's just in the first container though, I try and go as much coir as possible.

I also use the 1L Airpots for the absolute fastest growth and best preparation for transplant possible.

This was cut from the mother plant 27 days prior. Notice the pruned root tips at the bottom just waiting to dig into the next sized pot. You can see the leaf tips missing on the lowest branches, those were the one's that were clipped for the aerocloner, the rest of that is all fresh new growth. They're only ~$3 each for the pots but ideal for transplanting. I suggest everyone get these. The larger Airpots are comparable to the cloth, but the small one's are essential for that early development.


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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: bEelzeBosS]
    #731067 - 05/11/14 03:54 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Gen hydro has the brick coco basics on their website. They recommend using their cal/mg as the buffering agent, which should be mostly what the Canna has, but I don't know if it has anything else extra in it that might be beneficial. Canna recommends double Zym when reusing coco, so I'd probably toss some of that in to help break down the remaining garbage. I would try soaking for a bit longer with more water (3-4x the volume) to try and extract the salt. Do that 2-3 times, then finish with a rinse. Then inoculate with some sort of beneficial microbes and let it sit for a week or two, flipping from time to time. Then see how the runoff looks from that. If its still an issue just keep rinsing it until it comes out clear before putting the plants in.

If I remember correctly its essential to use the Ca/Mg in the rinse in order to displace the salts that are locked onto the coco. Ca/Mg are big fat molecules that bounce the smaller salts away, then interacts with the coco/nutrients in order to provide nutrients to the plants more effectively.


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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?


Registered: 11/15/13
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #731077 - 05/11/14 05:40 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Good idea thanks. Can't wait to get rid of this crap so I can switch to some good stuff. May put some bricks on Craigslist and see what happens.


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:firecum:


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?


Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 679
Re: Question about coco coir [Re: bEelzeBosS]
    #731079 - 05/11/14 06:05 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Any ideas on a good way to introduce some microbes to the medium? Are there products made especially for that?

A friend said to use "horticulture molasses", would that work?


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:firecum:


Edited by bEelzeBosS (05/11/14 06:33 PM)


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: bEelzeBosS] * 1
    #731113 - 05/11/14 09:58 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

They make a few different products, Advanced nutrients makes three: tarantula, pirhanna and voodoo. Then there are a Humboldt's Myco Maddness and one called Great White Mycorrhizae, which is the one I was going to try. I've tried all the Advanced one's but not for treating coco. I think they're all overpriced from them.


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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflineMidgetpawn
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #731151 - 05/12/14 08:01 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I got some bagged(non brick)coir from some shroomery sponsor Out-grow.com and it appears slightly reddish, which I think coir just is, but doesn't have any runoff I can see besides some coir seeping out. It actually seems like some of the highest quality coir you could get. Certainly better than some of the bricked coir I've used. I think it worked out to 2.50-3.00 a bricks worth for the bagged stuff. hope it's ok mentioning shroomery sponsors on here =x


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Be sure to read up on "autoflower"/ruderalis seeds before choosing them. Unless you NEED autos, you might do much better with anything else. No more hoarding ultra genetics! We need more of the best not less!


Edited by Midgetpawn (05/12/14 08:10 AM)


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?


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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #731152 - 05/12/14 08:10 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I just ordered an 8 oz container of the Great White. Thanks again for the advice.


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:firecum:


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?


Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 679
Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #732667 - 05/22/14 05:51 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

phy - I picked up some Canna A & B, have a question for you...

I use RO H2o, and Ive been adding Cal/Mag to every feeding. I noticed Canna A contains quite a bit of Ca and Canna B contains Mg. Should I stop using the Cal/Mag altogether now or just use less?


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:firecum:


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: bEelzeBosS]
    #732675 - 05/22/14 07:26 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

I'd stop using it all together.


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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: bEelzeBosS] * 1
    #732707 - 05/22/14 11:33 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

I don't use it,but I just read somewhere the other day that hollow stems are due to Ca/Mg issues, so I was thinking about adding it, but the plants are so nice that its hard to add something. I've had a little bit of Advanced Nutrients Ca/Mg from previous adventures that I used occasionally but didn't notice any difference, so I'm not in a big hurry to try it again, but I am considering adding a little bit during treatment for re-use.

Basically coco has micro holes that thc Ca/Mg sit in and reside (the reason for buffering, heavy molecules displaces the lighter salts) and interact with the plant-root interface and nutrients to deliver nutrients better than other mediums. Once its treated those Ca/Mg are essentially bound to the coco. The formula *should* have enough Ca/Mg in it and the medium buffered to not need it.

Using RO water theres potentially a problem, but cut out the Ca/Mg and see if it makes any difference. You might be addressing a problem you don't have.


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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?


Registered: 11/15/13
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #735637 - 06/10/14 03:08 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Well a hydro shop finally opened up somewhat close to my area so I went to buy some "real" coco coir to compare it to my shitty reptile bedding coir Ive been using. Shipping kills it for me to order online or I would have tried it out sooner.

The only brand he stocks is Botanicare Cocogro loose. Has anyone tried this stuff? It says double rinsed but Im going to soak some in some hot water and see what my PPM reading is before I trust that.


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:firecum:


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?


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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #748580 - 09/17/14 11:00 AM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Need some more advice phych if you dont mind...

I took your advice for coco nutes, I LOVE Canna...A&B are perfect, I havent had an unhealthy plant since switching.

My question is about the PK 13/14. Ive been using it for one week as soon as I start to see flowers. Is this correct or should I use it later in flowering? Ive also been using @ full strength according to the bottle...6 mL/gallon. Am i using this stuff correctly?


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:firecum:


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: bEelzeBosS]
    #748635 - 09/17/14 06:40 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

PK is for one week only, week 5 I believe. I use the PK at full strength but will reduce the A/B a little when that time comes.

I water till the coco is moist, but not to waste like recommended. I usually will flush right before I PK to make sure the coco is nice and clear and not going to have any problems with buildup.  Then flush a week+ before harvest, then plain water till the end. The plants will yellow a lot by the end.


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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?


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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #756648 - 11/10/14 10:02 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Have another question for phychotron or anyone else that knows the answer.

During the last couple weeks of flower I switch to RO water only to get rid of all the nutrients, then I do an RO flush the day before harvest. For the last two weeks is it ok to water with just pure RO water that has a neutral ph or do I still need to bring the ph down to around 5.9 or so like I do when feeding?


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:firecum:


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: bEelzeBosS]
    #756650 - 11/10/14 10:07 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bEelzeBosS said:
Have another question for phychotron or anyone else that knows the answer.

During the last couple weeks of flower I switch to RO water only to get rid of all the nutrients, then I do an RO flush the day before harvest. For the last two weeks is it ok to water with just pure RO water that has a neutral ph or do I still need to bring the ph down to around 5.9 or so like I do when feeding?




Your fine doing it the way you have been doing it. The ph thing is for nutrient intake. With the amount of time you're flushing for there isn't time to show nutrient deficiencies.

:happyweed:


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: Magash]
    #756651 - 11/10/14 10:14 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

That's what I figured but just wanted to make sure. Thanks dude.


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:firecum:


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: bEelzeBosS]
    #756676 - 11/10/14 05:08 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Two weeks of plain water is a good way to end a crop. I usually give 1-2 weeks of plain water, with a good flush a week before chopping so it can absorb the remaining non-flushed nutrients for a full week, then little to no water the last 2-3 days in order to suck out all the water in the coco (easier to reuse when dry).

Two weeks of plain water in coco and a good flush will usually let the plants yellow up quite a bit...I always harvest before the yellowing recedes into the bud. Usually by the time I'm ready to flush the plants are JUST beginning to show signs of their age with a little natural yellowing/lightening. I NEVER adjust pH when flushing, as stated, it is to aid nutrient absorption into the plant, whereas we are trying to NOT absorb the nutrients in the last few days.

It can be a couple days before the plant actually uses the nutrients that its absorbed, which is why I like to give it a flush a week prior so that it has nothing/little to build with for a whole week to ensure that there are no unused nutrients left in the plant.


not sure exactly how far from harvest this plant was, (real close) but here is the difference of a few days without nutrients at the end.

04/24 ~ 10 days till harvest


04/27 ~7 days till harvest (Flushed around this time)



05/04 ~0-2 days till harvest.


One thing I also go by when harvesting is water uptake rate, when they stop vigorously sucking up water the plant is pretty much ready to chop.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


Edited by phychotron (11/10/14 05:17 PM)


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Offlinewebster10


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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #756680 - 11/10/14 05:44 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)


:loveeyes: Do you use any flushing products that supposedly leech out the nutrients? Or is this the result of just plain straight up tap water for the whole flush?


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: webster10]
    #756746 - 11/10/14 10:39 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I just run tap water through it. Canna Nutrients are very forgiving and don't leave much residue. I have it set up to be able to run a ton of water through.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
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“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #756772 - 11/11/14 02:01 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Nice, is that an 8x4 tent?

Tell us about it :o You air cooling your lights? What you running for exhaust?


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: captain.koons]
    #756774 - 11/11/14 02:40 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

ya 4x8. i have a booster fan sucking in air from the 4x4 veg tent into the flower tent, then the 8" exhaust on a temp/humidity controller.

http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/733408

thats my basic setup


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #756780 - 11/11/14 07:33 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Oh neat, I didn't realize it was LEDs. When I have extra cash I'd love to do a LED grow in a tent with added CO2. I have some friends that are co2 converts, amazing results but hardly worth while when you consider the additional cooling costs when using HPS especially in tents. it would be sick as tits to crush 2gpw.


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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: captain.koons]
    #756782 - 11/11/14 08:27 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Not sure how that would work, as you'll still need some sort of cooling for the lights. If I don't keep the exhaust fan running it will build up heat. You'd need some sort of cool-tube for your lights so that you could collect the exhaust heat separate from the garden.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
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“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #756787 - 11/11/14 09:22 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

LEDs must run much much cooler than HPS. So at the very least they would be easier to manage with an AC vs. HPS. I didn't mean, no exhaust or AC at all.

Tent would have co2 on a controller ideally speaking, AC would be used to maintain temps and exhaust outside, and you would need a fresh air exchange however often ie. mostly sealed/perfect environment. I have a friend with a low tech co2 setup in his tent, he just has a regulator to pour disperse x amount of co2/hour and he figured out what the average ppms would be given his exhaust, room size, and air turbulence based on whatever manufacturer guidelines. I don't know how accurate that is but he's happy with the results. He also works for a place that distributes dry ice and tanks full of various gases so he just fills up for free.

4kw of light for most people = 250-350 cfm per 1kw in my case i'd probably be using two x 8" can fans = 500w and worse case for the AC would be 1100w so 5600w total probably have a small fan to exhaust the volume of the room twice a day or whatever is recommended. 5.6 kw /hr * 60days*12hours*$0.2=$806.40 in electricity alone under full ac/fan load. Whatever LED amount I found to cover say 1600 watt vs 4000 for "equivalent yields" (Granted this costs $7200 or would have from LEDgirl, then I'd just need to figure out the best/cheapest method of cooling I have no idea how it would compare. If I saved half of the electricity costs, I'd pay the LEDs off by electricity savings in just under 3 years! I still don't know how I feel about LEDs. In that time i'd probably also spend around $1500-2000 on bulbs alone.

What's the best priced / performance LEDs on the market?


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OfflineGoonerHeClips
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #756813 - 11/11/14 02:02 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
I just run tap water through it. Canna Nutrients are very forgiving and don't leave much residue. I have it set up to be able to run a ton of water through.




Do you use Canna Boost in flowering?  If so, recommended amount?


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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: GoonerHeClips]
    #756835 - 11/11/14 06:52 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

GoonerHeClips said:
Quote:

phychotron said:
I just run tap water through it. Canna Nutrients are very forgiving and don't leave much residue. I have it set up to be able to run a ton of water through.




Do you use Canna Boost in flowering?  If so, recommended amount?




I did, but now i'm using the Boost and Rhizotonic alternative from MBFerts. Seems to work well, cant see any difference.  Boost is way too expensive for what it is, and I end up not using it like I should because of it.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: captain.koons]
    #756837 - 11/11/14 06:58 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

captain.koons said:
LEDs must run much much cooler than HPS. So at the very least they would be easier to manage with an AC vs. HPS. I didn't mean, no exhaust or AC at all.

Tent would have co2 on a controller ideally speaking, AC would be used to maintain temps and exhaust outside, and you would need a fresh air exchange however often ie. mostly sealed/perfect environment. I have a friend with a low tech co2 setup in his tent, he just has a regulator to pour disperse x amount of co2/hour and he figured out what the average ppms would be given his exhaust, room size, and air turbulence based on whatever manufacturer guidelines. I don't know how accurate that is but he's happy with the results. He also works for a place that distributes dry ice and tanks full of various gases so he just fills up for free.

4kw of light for most people = 250-350 cfm per 1kw in my case i'd probably be using two x 8" can fans = 500w and worse case for the AC would be 1100w so 5600w total probably have a small fan to exhaust the volume of the room twice a day or whatever is recommended. 5.6 kw /hr * 60days*12hours*$0.2=$806.40 in electricity alone under full ac/fan load. Whatever LED amount I found to cover say 1600 watt vs 4000 for "equivalent yields" (Granted this costs $7200 or would have from LEDgirl, then I'd just need to figure out the best/cheapest method of cooling I have no idea how it would compare. If I saved half of the electricity costs, I'd pay the LEDs off by electricity savings in just under 3 years! I still don't know how I feel about LEDs. In that time i'd probably also spend around $1500-2000 on bulbs alone.

What's the best priced / performance LEDs on the market?




1600w of LED does not equal 4000w HID, that's all bullshit. Its true for lettuce maybe.

I like Advanced LED, they just came out with a new light, the XTE that looks promising, probably the next light I get. I like the 400w lights (370w actual) for their shape and size, they cover a 2.5x4' area each.  There are a few other brands out there like GrowBlu that I'm using and like, but still think Advanced's new light will be better.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #756927 - 11/12/14 03:23 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Is there a standardized equivalent?

I'd probably, as it stands, get 600-800w in a 4x4 to see the growth potential.

Have you heard of Apollo? Very good reviews on amazon. They also seem pretty cheap on amazon, I can also get 50% amazon gift cards.

http://www.apollohorticulture.com/cob-768w.html#prettyPhoto


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: captain.koons]
    #756932 - 11/12/14 04:20 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

captain.koons said:
Is there a standardized equivalent?

I'd probably, as it stands, get 600-800w in a 4x4 to see the growth potential.

Have you heard of Apollo? Very good reviews on amazon. They also seem pretty cheap on amazon, I can also get 50% amazon gift cards.

http://www.apollohorticulture.com/cob-768w.html#prettyPhoto




So I would put two XTE400's in a 4x4 tent and say that your pretty much maxed out on light potential. You could probably push it and do some crazy side lighting scheme to really get deep, but for the most part those ~740w will deliver as much light as you'd need. I'd love to see a side by side of two XTE400's vs a 1000w HPS. A friend has a 1000w in a 4x4 and its really pushing it on heat, in fact he can't start anything until he's solved that problem. We ran the bulb for less than 5 minutes and it was insanely hot in there.

The thing with LED's is that you want to spread the lights out as much as possible, so that one apollo for say a 4x4 area is not anywhere near ideal. Those 'COB' styles seem to be getting popular but I'm still not sold on them. I wouldn't get a light off amazon, they seem to only pass on generics or lower end stuff. Not saying you can't find one or the light is good, but its not the style I like. Its good to get it from a vendor who is developing the lights to grow bud, not just a "plant grow light."


Here's the light canopy for those plants above-- spread out to reduce shading from a single-point source. In my 4x8 I'm running 1270w utilizing a 4x6 grow area with a little overhang.



Also, because your running less wasted light, you end up running your garden a bit warmer as well.

I've derailed too many threads talking about LED's... Start a new thread if you want to talk about LED's.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflineGoldilocks
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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: phychotron]
    #806533 - 02/22/16 11:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
Please stop spamming the boards, no matter how upset you are.

I left one version of your thread in the link below.

https://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/806534#806534




Edited by phychotron (02/23/16 03:19 PM)


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Re: Question about coco coir [Re: Goldilocks]
    #806562 - 02/23/16 03:10 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
Please stop spamming the boards, no matter how upset you are.

https://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/806534/vc/1#806534




--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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