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Offlinekln
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Nutes for Coco
    #385502 - 03/17/10 07:19 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Some months ago i decided to stop with soil and give straight coco a chance.

I've been following biobizz feeding scheldule, but now i think it's time to change for coco specific nutes

What's your experience with coco coir? I've been thinking in Hesi or Canna coco specific nutes , but would like to know some opinions before buying!

Thanks for your time

kLn


Edited by kln (03/17/10 08:22 PM)


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: kln]
    #385513 - 03/17/10 07:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kln said:
Some months ago i decided to stop with soil and give straight coco a chance.

I've been following biobizz feeding scheldule, but now i think it's time to change for coco specific nutes

What's your experience with coco coir? I've been thinking in Hesi or Canna nutes coco nutes, but would like to know some opinions before buying!

Thanks for your time

kLn




There are not many coco growers on the growery...yet. I made the switch about 5 months ago and use canna A, B, PK 13/14, Rhizotonic and Cannazyme. My nutrient costs have never been lower and plants love the shit, I don't know what else to say. Everything from the actual bottle (the best out there) to the feeding schedule (Add equal parts A+B the entire grow) makes it really hard to fuck anything up.

Here is a post I made about my transition from dirt to coco: https://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/301352/page/5


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Offlinekln
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #385519 - 03/17/10 07:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Oh yeah, i will definatly stick to coco now!
So for Canna nutes it's about 45€ (60$) in local growshop, even cheaper then Hesi and Biobizz

Thanks for the help

kLn


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: kln] * 1
    #385526 - 03/17/10 08:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You should start a grow journal when everything is set up :wink:

We need more coco and cowbell.


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Offlinekln
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #385528 - 03/17/10 08:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I will, next month i'am getting some lavender seeds from soma, and as soon as i plant them i'll start a grow journal


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: kln]
    #385776 - 03/18/10 09:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I like General Hydroponics, Botanicare works nicely for coco also. I think I'm going to try BioBuzz with coco next because I'm getting a bunch of their nutes from a friend.


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Offlineairborne robot
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: captain.koons]
    #385783 - 03/18/10 10:26 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I fell in love with coco from the shroomery, and used it in a couple of my recent projects. Even if you do not use straight coco, it works wonderfully for a wick.
I use 5 gallon buckets with 1/2 holes drilled across the bottom. Placing 1-2 inches of coir in the bottom of the buckets and then filling with FF dirt and about 20% coir I can use a ebb and flow type watering system and the wicking action from the coir has AMAZING root development. I do not think I will ever water from the top down again.
The only thing to watch out for is salt build up from the coir, and if you over feed I had a real pain trying to get it flushed. But thats just my two cents.


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: airborne robot]
    #385785 - 03/18/10 10:39 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

airborne robot said:
I fell in love with coco from the shroomery, and used it in a couple of my recent projects. Even if you do not use straight coco, it works wonderfully for a wick.
I use 5 gallon buckets with 1/2 holes drilled across the bottom. Placing 1-2 inches of coir in the bottom of the buckets and then filling with FF dirt and about 20% coir I can use a ebb and flow type watering system and the wicking action from the coir has AMAZING root development. I do not think I will ever water from the top down again.
The only thing to watch out for is salt build up from the coir, and if you over feed I had a real pain trying to get it flushed. But thats just my two cents.




I've never seen a soil/coir mix, but it sounds like its working for you. I completely agree about its root development and wicking properties, I've yielded considerably (10-20%) more since switching. You can cut it with 25-50% perlite and salt buildup won't be a problem. Also, straight coir is less than stellar for cloning and starting seeds in my experience. Today I'm using something like 50% coir, 30% perlite, 20% hydroton.


--------------------
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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: airborne robot]
    #385798 - 03/18/10 12:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

airborne robot said:
I fell in love with coco from the shroomery, and used it in a couple of my recent projects. Even if you do not use straight coco, it works wonderfully for a wick.
I use 5 gallon buckets with 1/2 holes drilled across the bottom. Placing 1-2 inches of coir in the bottom of the buckets and then filling with FF dirt and about 20% coir I can use a ebb and flow type watering system and the wicking action from the coir has AMAZING root development. I do not think I will ever water from the top down again.
The only thing to watch out for is salt build up from the coir, and if you over feed I had a real pain trying to get it flushed. But thats just my two cents.





Soil ebb and flow? I call bullshit.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #385800 - 03/18/10 12:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

206 said:
Quote:

airborne robot said:
I fell in love with coco from the shroomery, and used it in a couple of my recent projects. Even if you do not use straight coco, it works wonderfully for a wick.
I use 5 gallon buckets with 1/2 holes drilled across the bottom. Placing 1-2 inches of coir in the bottom of the buckets and then filling with FF dirt and about 20% coir I can use a ebb and flow type watering system and the wicking action from the coir has AMAZING root development. I do not think I will ever water from the top down again.
The only thing to watch out for is salt build up from the coir, and if you over feed I had a real pain trying to get it flushed. But thats just my two cents.




I've never seen a soil/coir mix, but it sounds like its working for you. I completely agree about its root development and wicking properties, I've yielded considerably (10-20%) more since switching. You can cut it with 25-50% perlite and salt buildup won't be a problem. Also, straight coir is less than stellar for cloning and starting seeds in my experience. Today I'm using something like 50% coir, 30% perlite, 20% hydroton.




I've used 20% coco in my soil mixes and I liked it.

Adding perlite doesn't stop salt build up the perlite component just wouldn't hold nutrients as much as the coco component, salt build up in the medium is attributed to having nutrients held in the medium evaporate and having the solid components remain in the medium. This is fixed or prevented in coco by having run off which helps release some of this nutrient build up.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #385803 - 03/18/10 12:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

206 said:
Quote:

kln said:
Some months ago i decided to stop with soil and give straight coco a chance.

I've been following biobizz feeding scheldule, but now i think it's time to change for coco specific nutes

What's your experience with coco coir? I've been thinking in Hesi or Canna nutes coco nutes, but would like to know some opinions before buying!

Thanks for your time

kLn




There are not many coco growers on the growery...yet. I made the switch about 5 months ago and use canna A, B, PK 13/14, Rhizotonic and Cannazyme. My nutrient costs have never been lower and plants love the shit, I don't know what else to say. Everything from the actual bottle (the best out there) to the feeding schedule (Add equal parts A+B the entire grow) makes it really hard to fuck anything up.

Here is a post I made about my transition from dirt to coco: https://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/301352/page/5




What nutrients did you use before? Canna is amongst the most expensive nutrients on the market.


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: captain.koons] * 1
    #385884 - 03/18/10 02:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

FYI, its a pain in the ass to reply to multiple questions when each question is in a different post and each post cites different quotes. Take a couple extra seconds and edit your post, because its not worth the effort to reply.

Quote:

captain.koons said:
I've used 20% coco in my soil mixes and I liked it.




What I meant was people cutting coco with soil, not vice versa. I've never heard of anyone cutting coco with soil. That is a step away from hydroponics and yet without the benefits of soil...just a bad idea IMO. Not to mention a good deal of the nutes in FF are going to be locked out @ hydro ph.

Quote:

captain.koons said:
Adding perlite doesn't stop salt build up the perlite component just wouldn't hold nutrients as much as the coco component, salt build up in the medium is attributed to having nutrients held in the medium evaporate and having the solid components remain in the medium. This is fixed or prevented in coco by having run off which helps release some of this nutrient build up.




You might be interpreting what I say too literally. Perlite will significantly reduce salt buildup compared to straight coco, whether you water to runoff (I don't) or not. Obviously any medium is going to have salt buildup over time unless its flushed, I think of that as implied knowledge.

Quote:

captain.koons said:
What nutrients did you use before? Canna is amongst the most expensive nutrients on the market.




I believe the OP specified coco-specific nutes. I'm interested to hear what coco nutrients you would recommend that are cheaper than canna a+b? H&G is the only one close and their entire line is one big canna clone, they don't even try to hide that.

To the OP: GH Flora/FN and almost all hydroponic nutes are not tailored to coco, they have excessive P. Coco-specific = less P because coco already has a shit-ton of it. CNS17 coco+soil especially is a joke, any grower should laugh at that product description. If its all their local shop carries I understand, but yeah.

To actually answer your question...I've used FF's complete line, BMO's complete line, GH 3-part, AN A+B, Botanicare grow, etc. I've cropped 16 plants so far with 1 liter of canna A and 1 liter of canna B and I've still got 1/4 of each bottle left and 14 plants going. I don't have exact numbers from the past, but like I said I've never spent less on nutrients, even when my dirt was pre-laced with them. I paid a total of $31.90 for both bottles.

If I sound like an asshole I guess its because you took a dump on this thread and nobody seems to care when people do that around here.


--------------------
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Skunk Train (Most Recent) | G13 Haze (Completed) | G13 Haze (Completed) | G13 Haze (Completed)
Cinnibis Rolls | Indoor Peppers

"The secret of improved plant breeding, apart from scientific knowledge, is love." -Luther Burbank


Edited by Crusty Ass Bastard (03/18/10 03:26 PM)


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #385895 - 03/18/10 03:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

he uses the same amount of coco (20%) in his soil mix. I don't see how using 1/5th coco is cutting coco with soil and not cutting soil with coco as the coco is most abundant.

I don't know where you get your information from. The perlite will make the coco drain and dry faster which is what causes salt buildup. The only perk is the perlite won't hold salts as well as the coco.

Again. Salt buildup is from your medium being wet with x(say 1300ppm) concentration of nutrients, then your medium dries and the water component of the nutrient solution evaporates, leaving a more concentrated (over 1300ppm) known as salt build up other than the perlite will not prevent salt build up from occuring it will in fact do the opposite.


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Offlinekln
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: captain.koons]
    #385900 - 03/18/10 03:25 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

captain.koons said:
Quote:

206 said:
Quote:

kln said:
Some months ago i decided to stop with soil and give straight coco a chance.

I've been following biobizz feeding scheldule, but now i think it's time to change for coco specific nutes

What's your experience with coco coir? I've been thinking in Hesi or Canna nutes coco nutes, but would like to know some opinions before buying!

Thanks for your time

kLn




There are not many coco growers on the growery...yet. I made the switch about 5 months ago and use canna A, B, PK 13/14, Rhizotonic and Cannazyme. My nutrient costs have never been lower and plants love the shit, I don't know what else to say. Everything from the actual bottle (the best out there) to the feeding schedule (Add equal parts A+B the entire grow) makes it really hard to fuck anything up.

Here is a post I made about my transition from dirt to coco: https://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/301352/page/5




What nutrients did you use before? Canna is amongst the most expensive nutrients on the market.




I used bio grow, bio bloom, topmax and bioheaven, i paid 60€ for those, so i'm gonna save 15€.
Biobizz is nice, but this time i wanna try specific coco nutes


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: kln]
    #385902 - 03/18/10 03:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ah I've never bought BioBizz nutrients before wasn't aware they were that expensive. They are certified with a lot of different organizations as being fully organic so that could influence the price a great deal. A lot of other people who don't have certificates and claim they're fully organic are full of shit. For example Canna claims their Rhizotonic is fully organic and won't pay the $20 000 to get certified?


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Offlinekln
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: captain.koons]
    #385906 - 03/18/10 03:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

captain.koons said:
Ah I've never bought BioBizz nutrients before wasn't aware they were that expensive. They are certified with a lot of different organizations as being fully organic so that could influence the price a great deal. A lot of other people who don't have certificates and claim they're fully organic are full of shit. For example Canna claims their Rhizotonic is fully organic and won't pay the $20 000 to get certified?




I don't know about that, but anyway if it works better it's definatly a go!


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: captain.koons] * 1
    #385908 - 03/18/10 03:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

captain.koons said:
I don't know where you get your information from. The perlite will make the coco drain and dry faster which is what causes salt buildup. The only perk is the perlite won't hold salts as well as the coco.

Again. Salt buildup is from your medium being wet with x(say 1300ppm) concentration of nutrients, then your medium dries and the water component of the nutrient solution evaporates, leaving a more concentrated (over 1300ppm) known as salt build up other than the perlite will not prevent salt build up from occuring it will in fact do the opposite.




It is exactly because the perlite doesn't hold salts as well that it better prevents salt buildup. Those less-salty airy pockets all over the medium keep it from drying out evenly, which is when TSS really rears its fucking head. Start a pot of straight coir and a pot of 50/50, feed at the same ppm's every day, and wonder in amazement as the coir needs a flush days or weeks before the 50/50. I'm not on this site for an ego-stroke or to impress anybody, I share some pictures and offer some advice based on actual experiences. I'm not talking out of my ass or just to hear myself, try to understand that.

Also: This thread became unreadable 3 hours and 44 minutes ago.


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Edited by Crusty Ass Bastard (03/18/10 03:47 PM)


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #385915 - 03/18/10 04:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

What is TSS?

I've grown in coco with varying amounts of perlite and straight coco, I now grow in pure coco and I don't flush until right before harvest. As I don't flush I don't see how I could improve on flushing less.

Quote:

Those less-salty airy pockets all over the medium keep it from drying out evenly




Coco dries from the top more than the rest so it wouldn't dry evenly either way, I don't understand what you're trying to get across. Could you rephrase?


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Offlineairborne robot
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Re: Nutes for Coco [Re: captain.koons]
    #386553 - 03/19/10 10:14 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

And thanks for calling BS on something.
A soil hybrid grow can be used with a ebb and flow watering system VERY effectively, and easily. All you have to do is be able to think around corners.

Take a 5 gallon bucket and drill some 1/2 inch or 1/4 inch holes across the bottom, or the 3 gallon square pots that already have the holes in the corners.
Line the bottom inch or two with shredded coir. This will act as a buffer so the dirt will not muddy up the water, or fall out the holes.
Fill the rest of the pot up with your choice of High quality dirt, and mix in about 10-20% coir as a fluffer and wicking agent.
I place my buckets in sweater boxes from walmart, or you can use a traditional water table from the hydro store.
Now for the watering all you have to do is make sure the table/box does not flood above the line of coir in the bottom of your pots. The coir will act as a wick and suck the water up to the bottom of the root ball, and the coir mix in the dirt will help with wicking the water through out the root ball.


Key points to remember when setting this up.
1. Do not flood above the line of coir in the buckets. trust me I have let the table get to full and the mud that can be pulled out is a pain, But the coir does act as a nice filter.
2. The top of the soil can dry out very easily with no water pouring down through it. I suggest a buffer layer on the top. hydro rock, gravel anything will work.
3. I usually wait to start this watering system till I know I have a decent root ball. I would water top down very lightly till you know the roots are close enough to the bottom that the wicking action will water them.


Unlike boomers, mary is a very forgiving hobby. And that can give us growers the ability to play around and try out new things. Think of how many advances in our customs and traditions we have because people thought around a problem, or tried new things. Yes there are failures and yes there are success stories.
And the best part about this hybrid system it will give new and old g growers some amazing results, and can help break the new ones into the world of custom systems.
This simple little hybrid on a soil grow will tack on a very minimal price tag, and yield a cost/benefit ratio off the charts. If you already have all the parts needed for your soil grow, all you need is the following
1. Water pump, hell a wal-mart one will work just fine ($20)
2. Sweater box for holding buckets ( $5-10 ) each
3. Timer, 24 hour duel plug in one from Menards was $14
4. Rubber tubing for the return line and flow line, $4
5. 3-pack of coir from pet smart $11 ( will make about 5 gallons of expanded coir)


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