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InvisibleGod
Yahweh

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99
    #497758 - 11/13/10 03:19 PM (6 years, 25 days ago)

Hello, and welcome!  Allow me to introduce my perpetual grow closet.

Air is pulled in through the veg room first.  The veg room is 3x3x3' and is lit by a 100W metal halide bulb:



After flowing through the veg room, air continues into the flowering room.  The flowering room is 3x4x5' tall and is lit by a 600W high-pressure sodium bulb:



The flowering room is also where much of the other equipment is located.  Below, you can see my DIY carbon filter at the top right, the 600W ballast next to that, the light/reflector itself, the 447 CFM Vortex fan, and a shitload of wires:

Behind the reflector, attached to the Vortex is a thermostatic speed controller.  It's pretty adjustable; I've got it keeping the fan running at around 70% capacity unless it goes above 85F--then it amps up to 100% until it's below 80F.


Here's a better shot of the carbon filter, and the ducting from it to the light:



This shot from last season better illustrates how airflow goes down in here:

Air enters at the bottom left from the veg room, is stirred around by the oscillating fan, is pulled up the to top right to the carbon filter, then back down through the light, then back up through the Vortex, and finally out through my DIY duct muffler (not pictured for security, sorry).  Phew!

Anyway, that's pretty much the cab itself, let me know if you have any questions.  In the next post, I'll show you guys what I've got going on in the veg room.


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InvisibleGod
Yahweh

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: God]
    #497760 - 11/13/10 03:28 PM (6 years, 25 days ago)

Without further ado, here's a big group shot of everyone in the veg closet:

Amongst the nine various clones of the Cinderella 99 and bagseed strains I've been working with, you can see the two new AK-47 seedlings.  They're about 20 days old now.  Here's a few more pictures of them:








I'll be cloning them a bunch as soon as possible, and the seedlings will go into flower once they show sex.  Here's hoping for two girls!


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Offlinejkell
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Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: God]
    #497850 - 11/13/10 11:58 PM (6 years, 25 days ago)

YES! God has a new grow! I'll be watching. And question for you both those ak's are how old? Almost 3 weeks? I really need a new light then the floro's aren't cutting. I got 4 weekers that barely look as big as that.


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InvisibleGod
Yahweh

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: jkell]
    #497878 - 11/14/10 02:44 AM (6 years, 25 days ago)

Yes, they're both about three weeks old.  23 days max (I keep poor records).  I've got them as close to the 100W MH as possible, and they're up to veg strength nutes already.


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InvisiblePandor

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 503
Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: God]
    #498000 - 11/14/10 07:09 PM (6 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

God said:
Without further ado, here's a big group shot of everyone in the veg closet:

Amongst the nine various clones of the Cinderella 99 and bagseed strains I've been working with, you can see the two new AK-47 seedlings.  They're about 20 days old now.  Here's a few more pictures of them:








I'll be cloning them a bunch as soon as possible, and the seedlings will go into flower once they show sex.  Here's hoping for two girls!




I'm still a noob.

I was wondering,
Whats that in the background of the second picture?
(ecoplus?)
Thanks


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InvisibleGod
Yahweh

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: Pandor]
    #498061 - 11/14/10 10:16 PM (6 years, 24 days ago)

That's just a thermometer/hygrometer.  The white wire you can see running out of it is a remote sensor.  It runs into the flower room and measures the temperature in there as well.  Handy tool.


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InvisiblePandor

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 503
Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: God]
    #498365 - 11/16/10 12:47 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

Thanks.

Beautiful plants BTW.


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OfflineGoombah
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Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: God]
    #498408 - 11/16/10 03:08 AM (6 years, 23 days ago)

Nice setup. Another newbie here hoping you could answer a question or two. It looks like you have the same carbon filter that I got for my setup. I have a little 4" inline fan which works well for keeping the light cool but I'm not sure it is going to have enough draw on the filter. What is the "Vortex" you are using? Pricey? What does it draw for power? I'm using 1000w MH so I like to cut watts anywhere else that I can.


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InvisibleGod
Yahweh

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: Goombah]
    #498659 - 11/16/10 07:17 PM (6 years, 22 days ago)

I made my carbon filter myself, but yours may be the same size; mine is 24" long and has an outer diameter of 8" and in inner diameter of 6" (so that's 1" of carbon).  It hooks up to 6" ducting, which is the size of the light reflector and the Vortex.

I'm using the 447 CFM Vortex dialed back to around 70% using a thermostatic triac (so probably around 300-350 CFM).  The fan itself is a beast, and yes, it's a bit pricey for "just a fan," but reasonable for a good inline fan, and well worth it if you need to move a lot of air "quietly" and want your fan to last.  I say it's "quiet" because for a fan of that power/speed, it makes little to no mechanical noise, but there is quite an epic whooshing sound when the air is pushed out the end.  I semi-solved this with insulated ducting and a DIY duct muffler.
You can get new Vortex fans a bit cheaper on eBay, but be careful of cheap knockoffs!  And I wouldn't buy one used, you don't know how worn it is.

As far as power use and your general situation goes: the 447 CFM draws 130 watts, which doesn't seem too bad for such a big fan.  That 4" fan you're using sounds inadequate.  It definitely wouldn't keep my setup cool even without the filter, unless it's >350 CFM, which seems unlikely.  With 4" you're kinda fucked on static pressure, and the filter definitely won't help.  Is your 1000W reflector 4"?  Anyway, you're right, once you put a filter on there, it's doubtful any 4" fan is going to exhaust your room, go through a filter, and cool your light.  It's going to move air too slowly and your room will be super hot.  How many CFMs does your fan pull?


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OfflineGoombah
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Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: God]
    #498749 - 11/17/10 02:53 AM (6 years, 22 days ago)

Thanks for the info. My dinky little inline fan is only 80CFM but I am in an open basement venting to the great outdoors so it functions only to keep the light cool. My hood has 6" vents so I have a reducer from the light to the fan. Basically I suck room air through the light, past the fan and out the window. I know there is no way in hell that fan is going to draw through the filter much less exchange all the air in the room. I thought if I got a 6" of the same model it might do the job but after checking on the net it really isn't much better, about 160CFM.

My basement has been somewhat stinky as of late but I wasn't in a screaming rush to hang the filter until about two days ago when I noticed a hint of skunk outside the house. Normally it is breezy around here but the outside air has been really still the past few days and the smell has begun to linger. Naturally I don't want to alert anyone to my goings-on over something stupid like this.

So I checked out the vortex that you described and it is not all that bad cost-wise but I guess it weighs about 16 lbs or more depending on the size you get. I wonder, dollar for dollar, if an ionizer/HEPA filter would work just as well for my purposes. That way I can leave it on the floor or a table and not have to worry about screwing more heavy objects to the ceiling, the stupid filter weighs alot too as I'm sure you know. I'll be checking out the grow room design pages also to see if anyone has experience with the ionizers. 

Anyhoo, thanks for your help, much appreciated.

Afterthought: maybe I could get a much smaller filter as I am less worried about the smell in the basement than I am about the air blowing outside. Just something to plug in the window maybe?


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InvisibleGod
Yahweh

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: Goombah]
    #498845 - 11/17/10 03:56 PM (6 years, 21 days ago)

Yeah, that fan won't cut it for a couple reasons.  First, it's simply too slow.  It can only move 80 cubic feet of air in 60 seconds.  That's good enough to exhaust an 80 cubic foot room, and it's enough to cool a 1000W light, but not necessarily both (depending on intake temperature; seems to be working for you), and certainly not with any filter that will work, regardless of size (more on that later).  For reference, my two rooms combined are 87 cubic feet.
Second (less important) reason that fan won't be enough: it's too small.  Its perimeter:area ratio is 1:1, compared to a 6", which is 2:3.  This basically means you lose more CFM to friction with 4" ducting than with 6" (and 8" is even better, but that's kinda big!).  Sending it through the reducer will help with this some, but it still has to go through the fan in the end.  Combine this loss with the frictional loss from the filter, and I bet you have a warm room and a skunky-smelling basement.
However, if you put it all together and it works, then by all means, go for it!

If it's not sufficient, there are two major options I see:
A.  Getting a significantly more powerful fan to exhaust the room through the filter and light effectively.
B.  Getting a slightly more powerful fan to exhaust the room through the filter alone, and use current fan in a closed-loop system to cool the light.

Option B seems quite viable with a couple qualifiers: it will probably be noisier with two low-quality fans versus one nice one, and you'll need to be careful with the closed loop part.  The goal is to take air from outside the room, push it past the light, and push it right back out again, without being able to actually get inside your room.  This is important because if there's a leak in your closed-loop ducting, it will pull a little air from inside the room, which will be unfiltered and smell like weed.

So that's your call, depends on money and how much noise is acceptable.

A note on the size of filters: smaller isn't necessarily better.  Air needs to be pulled across the carbon slowly enough that it lingers and all of the smell can be absorbed before the air moves on out of the room.  If you make your filter small, the air moves through it more quickly because there's less surface area for the fan to pull air in from.  A large filter increases the surface area hugely beyond the 6" of the ducting, so the air is pulled into the filter very slowly from all sides, adding up to a shitload inside of the filter, whereupon it is all accelerated into the ducting--it must move faster now because there's less cross-sectional area to linger around in.


Oh, and ionizers/HEPAs are ineffective for this sort of application.  They're not good enough odor eliminators.  It'd just be a wasted expense, spend that money on filter supplies or a new fan. :thumbup:


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OfflineGoombah
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Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: God]
    #498912 - 11/17/10 08:15 PM (6 years, 21 days ago)

Eureka, God, you are a freekin genius! Actually, I feel like a complete idiot because I didn't think of it  :facepalm3:  My drier vent is about 3 away from the basement window where I am venting:



I could do the closed system as you mentioned, suck air in through either the drier vent or the window and just blow it out the other side. Actually that would probably reduce the temperature of the lamp even more, reduce my heat signature, and I'll be able to get the lamp even closer to the canopy. As for the smell in the basement, It doesn't permeate the rest of the house, so long as it is contained and not drifting outside I'm gold.

Thanks Man!


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InvisibleGod
Yahweh

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: Goombah]
    #498958 - 11/17/10 10:43 PM (6 years, 21 days ago)

Glad I could help!

Just one more hint that I thought of upon seeing that picture: fans are around 4x more efficient at pulling air than pushing it, so it's best to put your fan at the end of the exhaust ducting.  It'll move more air that way.


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OfflineGoombah
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Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: God]
    #498959 - 11/17/10 10:49 PM (6 years, 21 days ago)

Christ, whoda thunk? I figured that closer to the light was better to zip the air through. Another great suggestion I'll give it a try.


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Offlinejkell
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Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: Goombah]
    #503327 - 12/06/10 03:02 AM (6 years, 3 days ago)

Hey God you got an update for us man? I'm curious how the girls are looking


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InvisibleGod
Yahweh

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: jkell]
    #503652 - 12/07/10 03:43 PM (6 years, 1 day ago)

Yeah, sorry, I've been super busy for the past month or so, I've hardly had time to even keep the ladies watered!  I will do a huge picture update this weekend.  See you all then.


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Offlinegoldennic007
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Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: God]
    #504096 - 12/08/10 10:58 PM (6 years, 6 hours ago)

in great anticipation!  :ganja:


--------------------
Amsterdam Honeymoon:rave:


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InvisibleGod
Yahweh

Registered: 09/26/08
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Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: goldennic007]
    #514688 - 01/17/11 06:57 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Hey guys, sorry for the lack of updates.  Life and death have been getting in the way for a while, and the garden suffered heavily.  There's still some stuff flowering, some stuff vegging, so I'll hopefully get the time to put some pictures up in here soon.


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Offlinejkell
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Re: God's 700W Perpetual Closet: AK-47, Cinderella 99 [Re: God]
    #514692 - 01/17/11 07:05 PM (5 years, 10 months ago)

Looking forward to it! and i hope everything is alright for you God.:sad:


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