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 TrueHerbCrystal
Uncertified Oregrowian
 
Registered: 02/07/09
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 What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? 
#351375 - 01/21/10 03:48 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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I ask this because I have been researching seeds online and have found 2 different types of seeds available for almost every strain: "Regular" and "Feminized".
Because of the higher cost of "Feminized" seeds, I have been considered getting the much cheaper "regular" seeds, which can be either male or female.
I don't wanna spend too much money on the seeds, since I don't have much more money to spend (after my current set-up I bought).
So I'm in a certian delimila: buy 1 expensive feminized seed and risk it all or buy several "regular" seeds and have a chance of growing a male (which is not what I need, I need a women), but have a better chance of not failing on one seed.
Back to the original question: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? Is is above 50%?
>>> And what about "feminized" seeds? Are they 100% garnettted to be a female plant or is it close to 100%?
-- Finally, how are "feminized" seeds made? is it bred into the seeds somehow? Gene-splicing maybe?
Thanks for your help,
~ TrueHerbCrystal ~
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 Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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 Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
#351377 - 01/21/10 03:52 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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no, it's almost exactly 50% female to male. Granted, you can get lucky and get 9 females out of 10, but that is an anomaly of sample size. Every population sample of natural cannabis with large study size will land around 50%.
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TrueHerbCrystal
Uncertified Oregrowian
Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 1,352
Loc: Emerald City
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 Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#351380 - 01/21/10 03:56 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was afraid of that, but that's natural selection for ya. Thanks for the info HarryBallz.
What about "feminized" seeds, are they always 100% feminine? Or is the percentage a little lower?
~ TrueHerbCrystal ~
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mhbound
Ballin out at all cost
Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 8,144
Loc: High
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
#351496 - 01/21/10 06:36 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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no not always 100 percent it depends on the breederr and how well you take care of yer plants
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,041
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: mhbound]
#351721 - 01/21/10 10:40 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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feminized seeds are produced by purposely inducing staminate (male) flowers on a female plant. that pollinates the female calyx and poof a few weeks later you got female seeds.
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Inbred_gimp
Herb Connesuir
Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 1,115
Loc: Beyond the wall of sleep
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#351733 - 01/21/10 11:48 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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if the regular seeds are significantly cheaper you could just buy 2 packs and chop ur males
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Inverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: Inbred_gimp]
#351821 - 01/22/10 09:50 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think the breeders already thought of that, that's why it's about 80-90% cheaper to buy the fems than 2 packs of regulars...
No Money No Honey as my mexican coke selling coworker used to say every day...
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Don't criticize what you can't understand
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Inbred_gimp
Herb Connesuir
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Posts: 1,115
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: Inverted]
#351866 - 01/22/10 11:00 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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ah, excuse my ignorance i am unfamiliar with seedbanks.
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Inverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: Inbred_gimp]
#351873 - 01/22/10 11:20 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Huh? I was just saying. If you look at the prices that's generally where they stand...
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Don't criticize what you can't understand
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Inbred_gimp
Herb Connesuir
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Posts: 1,115
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: Inverted]
#351874 - 01/22/10 11:25 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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that was more directed to the poster of this topic for me suggesting something that wasn't right 
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
#351887 - 01/22/10 12:23 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well in nature the ratio is about 2 females for every male plant. Reason for this is that one male can fertilize tons of female plants. In other words if there are more females the plants you get a higher number of seeds which is a higher number of offspring.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
 Join us at the Growery!
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blueberry D
Registered: 04/22/08
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: Magash]
#352165 - 01/22/10 10:43 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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well out of the ten seeds I popped I got 6 ladies, so that sounds about right. I read about people getting ten males out of ten seeds also, so I think it just depends on the seed company, if they are legit, or if the grower even knows how to germinate seeds properly I don't know if there is a sure percentage you can get, can you?
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,041
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: blueberry D]
#352276 - 01/23/10 10:23 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've read from multiple sources that how you handle the plant and the stresses you provide to the plant can play a large factor into whether or not the plant is male or female come flowering time.
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TrueHerbCrystal
Uncertified Oregrowian
Registered: 02/07/09
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Loc: Emerald City
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 Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#352389 - 01/23/10 04:13 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wow, thats amazing...so you're saying that the sex of the plant could be influenced by the environment?
Interesting...kinda like turtle eggs, which the sex of the baby turtle dependes on the temperature they are incubated at. Could there be a similar "nature" rule to ganja plants?
Crazy stuff Furrow, can you provide some sources of that claim so I can look it up?
Good Stuff
~ TrueHerbCrystal ~
Edited by TrueHerbCrystal (01/23/10 04:15 PM)
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,041
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
#352473 - 01/23/10 09:15 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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oh yeah, the fist one that comes to mind is jorge cervantez's book. The factors that lead to higher female rates are things like lower temps and no heat stress, free flow of fresh air, more blue light spectrum, high humidity. These are all things that lead to less stress for the plant. Stress really impedes vibrant growth. Make the plants happy, give them what they want and let them grow.
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dutc2006
Grow or Die
Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 199
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#352566 - 01/24/10 03:49 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
FurrowedBrow said:
how you handle the plant and the stresses you provide to the plant can play a large factor into whether or not the plant is male or female come flowering time.
This is definitely true, and one of the easiest ways to help induce a female is to flower it from seed. It has been all but proven that this can lead to more females than males. As an experiment I once took 6 regular seeds and gave them 12/12 from germination. All 6 ended up female. Even if the odds of female truly are 6/10 for a regular seed, the odds of taking 6 random regular seeds and getting 6 females would be 6/10 to the 6th power = 0.046 * 100 = 4.6 % , or about 1/20. So I could just been lucky, or it really works. This isn't a large of enough sample size of course for an accurate statistic, but I have bought the theory ever since then. There are tons of reports using it that you may be able to find online. However, you cannot create odds for male or female with marijuana seeds, as they have a more complicated mechanism of sex determination. Decades ago it was thought that cannabis had a dioecious sex determining mechanism, like humans, meaning two chromosomes XX or XY. Now it is often referred to as an X:A system, meaning the second is a variable and isn't established when the gametes meet. There are other chemicals that can induce sex changes, I remember gibberellins or gibberellic acid is used to induce males, I can't remember the one that induces a female, but you could google that if you are interested.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: dutc2006]
#352772 - 01/24/10 07:38 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
dutc2006 said:
Quote:
FurrowedBrow said:
how you handle the plant and the stresses you provide to the plant can play a large factor into whether or not the plant is male or female come flowering time.
This is definitely true, and one of the easiest ways to help induce a female is to flower it from seed. It has been all but proven that this can lead to more females than males. As an experiment I once took 6 regular seeds and gave them 12/12 from germination. All 6 ended up female. Even if the odds of female truly are 6/10 for a regular seed, the odds of taking 6 random regular seeds and getting 6 females would be 6/10 to the 6th power = 0.046 * 100 = 4.6 % , or about 1/20. So I could just been lucky, or it really works. This isn't a large of enough sample size of course for an accurate statistic, but I have bought the theory ever since then. There are tons of reports using it that you may be able to find online. However, you cannot create odds for male or female with marijuana seeds, as they have a more complicated mechanism of sex determination. Decades ago it was thought that cannabis had a dioecious sex determining mechanism, like humans, meaning two chromosomes XX or XY. Now it is often referred to as an X:A system, meaning the second is a variable and isn't established when the gametes meet. There are other chemicals that can induce sex changes, I remember gibberellins or gibberellic acid is used to induce males, I can't remember the one that induces a female, but you could google that if you are interested.
Well close on the seed thing but flowering right from seed won't induce females. There are several strains that cause of their flowering times that many people flower right from seed.
Now on the chemicals that induce sex changes that really isn't the case what they do is block a hormone. There is a hormone that tells the flower that it is to be female what Gabrillic acid and sts (even better) do is block that hormone. There is no known way to add the hormone to a plant to induce female flowers.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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coda
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,736
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: Magash]
#352774 - 01/24/10 07:45 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
There is no known way to add the hormone to a plant to induce female flowers.
How nice would that be though. Inoculate your substrate with the hormone and boom, instant female.
One day...
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MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.
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dutc2006
Grow or Die
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Posts: 199
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: Magash]
#352878 - 01/25/10 01:49 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
Well close on the seed thing but flowering right from seed won't induce females. There are several strains that cause of their flowering times that many people flower right from seed.
Now on the chemicals that induce sex changes that really isn't the case what they do is block a hormone. There is a hormone that tells the flower that it is to be female what Gabrillic acid and sts (even better) do is block that hormone. There is no known way to add the hormone to a plant to induce female flowers.
I honestly didn't mean to say "sex changes" in my previous post, I should have said something like "encouraging which sex they will be", but it has been reported, according to the Wikipedia article on Cannabis, that sex changes have been induced chemically. Here is a quote from that article:
"Environmental sex determination is known to occur in a variety of species.[77] Many researchers have suggested that sex in Cannabis is determined or strongly influenced by environmental factors.[66] Ainsworth reviews that treatment with auxin and ethylene have feminizing effects, and that treatment with cytokinins and gibberellins have masculinizing effects.[60] It has been reported that sex can be reversed in Cannabis using chemical treatment.[78] A PCR-based method for the detection of female-associated DNA polymorphisms by genotyping has been developed."
Of course everything on Wiki isn't necessarily true...
As I was eating a banana for breakfast this morning I remembered the chemical I was thinking about that could induce the female sex: ethylene. I believe ethylene gas is a byproduct of banana peels as they sit out, and this reminded me of it.
Also I wasn't getting flowering from seed because of long flowering periods, and flowering from seed to get more females mixed up. It has been reported by many people all over the internet that when they induced flowering from seed that they got more females. Unless you have tried it or can post some data refuting it, I will say the concept is plausible. I admit my 6 seed sample was not enough to come up with conclusive evidence, but it led me to do more research on the subject, and I have found tons of posts of people with similar experiences. Seasonal cues are environmental factors that could easily affect the sex of the plant. Of course this stress is not recommended, even by me, it can increase the likelihood of the plant turning hermie, I am just noting these peculiarities for the sake of discussion. None of the 6 that I flowered from seed hermied on me. You first must admit that cannabis sex is not necessarily determined at seed creation, except for feminized seeds, but that is much more simple genetics.
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dutc2006
Grow or Die
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Posts: 199
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: dutc2006]
#352884 - 01/25/10 02:27 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Haha, now that I am looking for some evidence to back that idea up about 12/12 from seed leading to more females I can find nothing.
Well maybe somebody else has heard of this before and can pull something up, but if it were actually true there would probably be a lot more literature out there about it. I have a bunch of regular seeds bought from reliable vendors, so I could give this test another go, but what a waste it would be. I like to veg my plants out to be monsters, I have some tall ladies patiently waiting their turn at the flowering box. I doubt I am gonna give it to a seedling test subject, that is probably gonna prove me wrong turning into a shitty male!
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: dutc2006]
#352911 - 01/25/10 07:32 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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maybe I'll throw some banana peels next to my seedlings to see if they all come out female 
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: dutc2006]
#353001 - 01/25/10 02:31 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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You are so close it's not funny. Now there is no way to add ethylene to cause more females. Ethylene is the hormone I was talking about earlier. What gabrillic acid and sts do is block ethylene to cause the male flowers.
The environmental factors that influence gender are: (These are claims by the Dutch Passion Seed Company)
* a higher nitrogen concentration will give more females.
* a higher potassium concentration will give more males.
* a higher humidity will give more females.
* a lower temperature will give more females.
* more blue light will give more females.
* Fewer hours of light will give more females.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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coda
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,736
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: Magash]
#353033 - 01/25/10 05:33 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
maybe I'll throw some banana peels next to my seedlings to see if they all come out female
Ah, the good 'ol banana religion. I always laugh when I see pics of seedlings with banana's around the base of their stems
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MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.
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dutc2006
Grow or Die
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Posts: 199
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: coda]
#353098 - 01/25/10 07:33 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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 I too have heard of people putting banana peels by their seedlings hoping for females, it is pretty funny how desperate some people can get, and gullible too.
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DudeTron
Registered: 10/24/09
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: dutc2006]
#353151 - 01/25/10 08:40 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ripe bananas do give off ethylene gas though... It can help ripen other fruits. My money says cannabis just can't absorb it like that.... Though would a handful of banana peels lead to faster flowering times?
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Union420
Horticulturist
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: dutc2006]
#386937 - 03/19/10 03:28 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ahh, finnaly someone else that has experienced this. I kno this post is somewhat old but it just so happens I got into it with people on another site about this very subject. Years ago I read in Jorge Cervantes book that envirometal factors play a role in determining plant sex in a small paragraph about how to get more females from seed. The factors where this: Less hours of light ie:14, more nitrogen, higher humidity, more blue light, lower temps and even growing medium moisture. This sparked enough of my interest to try it. The first time I went small using two different enviroments one being the test and one being completely opposite ie: 18hours, low nitrogen more potassium, warmer temps lower humidity ect ect, bacically everything he said encouraged more males I did and everything that encouraged more females I did (on the test crop)Now he claims the factors take charge the moment the plant grown from seed has three pairs of 'true leaves' not including codyledons and you should make these changes at this point or earlier then revert to normal conditions once the plant has pre flowers, I used 14 hours on the test crops then changed to 16 thats just me with the 16 tho but I would advise using 14 at the change, less will cause the plant to flower most likely. I did this test 3 seperate times each time using more seed and everytime I got much more females from the test crop and almost opposite on the other. Like you, the first time I said "well it must be luck" after doing it 2 more times I now believe there is much more than luck. I now only use this method when using regular seed and have contiued to experience great results, however, I dont normally advise people to do this because I get pounced on by people who believe the sex is predetermined and I feel Im waisting my breath. It works, I kno that, I use it, but I think its gonna be a long time before people pick up on it as people can be very stubborn. I just wish the ones who attack my findings whould try it for themselves and they would see also but, instead I get talked to like its my first year growing and im crazy lol. It reminds me alot of the coir wars that were going on years ago at shoomery when people claimed it was only a casing an not a substrate lol now we see its the opposite. Ive had no problems with anyone here, it was another site that damn near shuned me for this but no love lost as the people there were obviously ignorant to many things lol. Like ive said from the start, I may be wrong but how do you explain my findings? luck? I find that hard to believe so ill continue to do it this way, hell in a few years it may be the way to go well see.
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Everything is fictional, I dont even exist.
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Union420
Horticulturist
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Loc: New World
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: Union420]
#386942 - 03/19/10 03:35 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Woops, dint realize there was a second page lol, seems Mag already beat me to it, so Mag have you tried this as well? Oh and yes it was originally claimed by dutch passion thats what Jorge said too in a short thank you to them. Try telling people at grasscity it works watch what happens lmao, Growery is where its at! love this place.
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Everything is fictional, I dont even exist.
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TrueHerbCrystal
Uncertified Oregrowian
Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 1,352
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: Union420]
#386948 - 03/19/10 03:48 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nice post Union420!
A little hard to read (due to no spacing), but you got some interesting results from your experiment.
You should do a grow log specifically on this whole "sex is determined by environmental factors" claim, because I would love to see it in action. Would you be interested in starting a Grow Journal at the lovely Growery? I think a lot of people would like to know the results: its not something that most people do. And with all the males growers have to kill, it would increase crop production (if environment *really* effects the sex).
I don't even think Mag has done a detailed, photo-logged experiment on this subject, but I could be wrong. Feel free to direct to such an experiment Mag if I'm wrong.
Good Stuff Union! 
~ TrueHerbCrystal ~
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Union420
Horticulturist
Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 94
Loc: New World
Last seen: 14 years, 21 days
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Re: What is the Percentage that a "Regular" (non-feminized) Seed will be Feminine? [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
#386962 - 03/19/10 04:34 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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My bad on the spacing lol, I got going and was happy to finnaly see somethig on the subject. I will likely do a grow journal soon as I get a camera (I love photos too) im hard on cash so theres no tellin when that will be. I would deff like to get this spreading cause as I said thers gotta be somthing to it. Right now im working on something else but after that I most deff will create a detailed log. Thanks
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Everything is fictional, I dont even exist.
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