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OfflineTribalSeed
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For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff??????
    #708874 - 01/20/14 11:30 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Ok, my first serious grow is going great and I am going to update my journal within the next few days, however I have ran into a bit of an irritating issue.
I use soil as my medium and everytime I water it is such a huge pain in the ass because of the water draining out of the pots. I went and got the plastic saucers and they are great, but they take up a lot of floor space and I still have to empty them after a bit when they are full of runoff water.
Long story short, its just a big pain in the arse.

What tricks do you soil guys use to help with that?
I thought about getting a hydro tray and setting up a slightly slanted table-like contraption with it and drill a hole in the lower side to allow the water to just drain out the hole and into a Rubbermaid or something like that so the water doesn't sit under the plants and cause any type of rot.

I dunno, just a thought of a how to make things abit easier on us stoners with the greenthumb.

Thanks for any tips and suggestions guys.

:baaaam:  <---------I love this.lol.


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InvisibleDrGreenThumb
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: TribalSeed]
    #708878 - 01/20/14 11:44 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Use containers without holes. I had the same problem and eventually said "screw it, no holes". 5 gal. buckets without drainage works like a charm.


--------------------
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” -Dr. Seuss


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OfflineTribalSeed
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: DrGreenThumb] * 1
    #708879 - 01/21/14 12:09 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DrGreenThumb said:
Use containers without holes. I had the same problem and eventually said "screw it, no holes". 5 gal. buckets without drainage works like a charm.



Really? What about root rot? Isnt that a worry?


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InvisibleDrGreenThumb
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: TribalSeed]
    #708903 - 01/21/14 02:27 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Root rot was a worry at first, but turns out, it's not an issue. The trick is in the transplant.

When you take your clones or seedlings out of the starting cup they need to have a real good root zone, almost root-bound by some people's standards. When you transplant, use moistened soil so you don't need to add water after transplanting.

The next day, water just the area of the original container with a watering can. The idea is to keep the plant thriving while the roots stretch through the new bucket. Do this for about 3-5 days.

You will notice that the bucket gets lighter by the day and the surface of the soil getting dry and crusty, this is good. You will eventually  a feel for when it's light and needs it first real watering.

For the first real watering use an entire 1 gallon jug of nutrient water. Pour gently but fast and try not to disturb the soil surface, it happens though.

After this you're in the clear, when the bucket gets light again, give another full gallon. Eventually the surface will harden as the roots circle to the top and watering becomes a breeze, as you can just pour it right in. Makes a tedious job quite easy.

Once the roots fill the bucket, they start using water really quick. Just make sure the bucket is light when you water. They go from watered  to dry so quickly that the roots are unaffected.

While it's true that irrigation runoff contains an average of 10% more "salt" than the original irrigation water, the amount that builds up over the 3-4 month life span of a plant is so insignificant that it won't affect your plants.

I had no way to drain runoff personally, so I eliminated it. Now I know that everything that goes in my jugs, goes in the plants and you're not washing money down the drain.


--------------------
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” -Dr. Seuss


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Invisibleresincoatedlungs
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: DrGreenThumb]
    #708908 - 01/21/14 06:49 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I just take a big Rubbermaid tub, place an oven grate over it, and sit the plants on that while I water. :shrug:


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OfflineTribalSeed
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: DrGreenThumb]
    #709051 - 01/21/14 11:07 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DrGreenThumb said:
Root rot was a worry at first, but turns out, it's not an issue. The trick is in the transplant.

When you take your clones or seedlings out of the starting cup they need to have a real good root zone, almost root-bound by some people's standards. When you transplant, use moistened soil so you don't need to add water after transplanting.

The next day, water just the area of the original container with a watering can. The idea is to keep the plant thriving while the roots stretch through the new bucket. Do this for about 3-5 days.

You will notice that the bucket gets lighter by the day and the surface of the soil getting dry and crusty, this is good. You will eventually  a feel for when it's light and needs it first real watering.

For the first real watering use an entire 1 gallon jug of nutrient water. Pour gently but fast and try not to disturb the soil surface, it happens though.

After this you're in the clear, when the bucket gets light again, give another full gallon. Eventually the surface will harden as the roots circle to the top and watering becomes a breeze, as you can just pour it right in. Makes a tedious job quite easy.

Once the roots fill the bucket, they start using water really quick. Just make sure the bucket is light when you water. They go from watered  to dry so quickly that the roots are unaffected.

While it's true that irrigation runoff contains an average of 10% more "salt" than the original irrigation water, the amount that builds up over the 3-4 month life span of a plant is so insignificant that it won't affect your plants.

I had no way to drain runoff personally, so I eliminated it. Now I know that everything that goes in my jugs, goes in the plants and you're not washing money down the drain.



I see how this would really work. I just didn't know if it was an issue or not.
My question to this explanation though is what about mother plants? Since they go way past the 3-4 month mark most times, would you want to keep mothers in a pot with holes for runoff?

The Rubbermaid idea is a decent idea, but it still takes the time for them to drain. I got 3 kids brother, lol, I don't ger a whole lot of "me" time with the plants.lol. However this would definitely cut down on mess and travel with the plants. (i.e. taking them back and forth to the bathroom.lol)


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: TribalSeed] * 3
    #709060 - 01/22/14 12:05 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Ok, keep the plastic saucers and water less. There is no need to empty the saucers. You can't empty the pot if you plug the holes right? What you can't do is flush. What if you overfeed the plants? you're putting yourself in a position that you can't flush the plants to save them. You also can't flush before harvest. This really isn't something that should be done when you're new to growing.


:happyweed:


--------------------
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:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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OfflineTribalSeed
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: Magash]
    #709063 - 01/22/14 12:57 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
Ok, keep the plastic saucers and water less. There is no need to empty the saucers. You can't empty the pot if you plug the holes right? What you can't do is flush. What if you overfeed the plants? you're putting yourself in a position that you can't flush the plants to save them. You also can't flush before harvest. This really isn't something that should be done when you're new to growing.


:happyweed:



Before I read your last sentence I thought to myself that a person with a lot of experience wouldn't run into this problem as often. I agree someone like me definitely wouldn't want to try this. Also you bring up the point of flushing, what do you do for the final flush at least, DrGreenThumb?

I would definitely think you would want to flush out the chemicals/ferts so you would have a decent tasting bud, right?

Mag: You say water less, what about the water till you have some runoff rule? Would the water that sits in the saucer cause any sort of problems? Rot? Fungi or pests? Or is it not enough to really matter?

I thank you guys for all the responses!

:baaaam:


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: TribalSeed]
    #709077 - 01/22/14 03:06 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Well first I wasn't saying Dr. Greenthumb was wrong I was just saying it's not gonna be easy for somebody new. I'm sure he stops feeding at a certain point a few weeks before harvest and just waters with plain water for a few weeks. Myself that is what I do with soil drainage holes or not.


Quote:

what about the water till you have some runoff rule?




Yeah you can do that in two ways. Just water till you get the runoff. You can give a half a watering and let it sit for a few minutes so the water absorbs then finish watering a few minutes later. You will still get runoff but less of it.
Myself I just do it the first way when I was in soil.

:happyweed:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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Offlinebudgrowerwannabe
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: Magash]
    #709097 - 01/22/14 07:29 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I like the second way. I think it gives the soil time to really get wet. I grow in bags and if I just water till run off it just runs out the easiest way. When I go to put it back it would be way to light. Meaning not watered enough. So I now water a little at a time till I see run off. I catch the first couple drops of run off to see the Ph of my soil.

Im like Res. I water over a Rubbermaid with a bread grate:thumbup: works great.  I start watering. Roll a joint. Then I check them give them more water! Now I sit back smoke the jammer!!  By that time I can put them back  under the lights but I still use the plastic trays:wellidunno: lol









In this pic I built a table with a drain like you were talking about so I didn't have to move them. It works but I still move my plants to the tub to get watered. The table would just let all the extra water run into a bucket.:bigjoint:


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: budgrowerwannabe]
    #709114 - 01/22/14 11:28 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

budgrowerwannabe said:
I like the second way. I think it gives the soil time to really get wet. I grow in bags and if I just water till run off it just runs out the easiest way. When I go to put it back it would be way to light. Meaning not watered enough. So I now water a little at a time till I see run off. I catch the first couple drops of run off to see the Ph of my soil.

Im like Res. I water over a Rubbermaid with a bread grate:thumbup: works great.  I start watering. Roll a joint. Then I check them give them more water! Now I sit back smoke the jammer!!  By that time I can put them back  under the lights but I still use the plastic trays:wellidunno: lol









In this pic I built a table with a drain like you were talking about so I didn't have to move them. It works but I still move my plants to the tub to get watered. The table would just let all the extra water run into a bucket.:bigjoint:





Oh I fully agree with you the second way is better but when you have several gardens of this (these are in bags like yours)

your talking about hours of work so I'd just go the first way and let excess water soak in from the bottom but like I said the second way is better.


:happyweed:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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Offlinebudgrowerwannabe
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: Magash]
    #709197 - 01/22/14 03:09 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

When I saw your pic a while back I noticed they were bags too . They work good . As I can see LoL

Don't know how many are there but you are right there is a lot of hours watering .


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: budgrowerwannabe]
    #709204 - 01/22/14 03:28 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

In those pics it was 4 per sq ft. 64 under each 1000watter.


:happyweed:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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Offlinebudgrowerwannabe
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: Magash]
    #709210 - 01/22/14 03:40 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

:bigjoint: There nice as hell .what strain are those monsters?










I can only flower about 16 in I gal. bags in  my tent. If I want to go bigger im going to have to figure something out.


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InvisibleDrGreenThumb
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: Magash] * 1
    #709216 - 01/22/14 04:44 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Magash makes a very good point as it does limit you to an extent. If you happen to overfeed (which I have done), then your only option is to give them plain water until the issue corrects itself. It usually takes no more than 2 waterings to correct itself, unless you really poisoned it.

As far as flushing them before harvest, Magash nailed that one also. He was half the inspiration for the flush test I conducted, along with a patient who claimed that he LOVED how thoroughly my plants were flushed and he could easily tell the difference between mine and others.

Normally I do just as Magash stated, plain water for the last 2 weeks before harvest. The flushing with 2X the volume of water is super overrated. So anyway, I took 2 identical looking plants (both clones from the same mom) not far from harvest and fed 1 plain water like normal. The other I marked and kept feeding for the rest of it's life. Both were harvested, dried, cured and put side-by-side in a blind taste test with 5 different people. 3 out of 5 picked the one that got fed until the end. I actually preferred the fed plant myself. There was no difference in the way it burned but the fed one seemed to have a fuller flavor in my opinion.

Does this mean I should keep feeding until harvest? Hell no, I don't see where it makes a significant difference, except you save money and time feeding plain water for the last 2 weeks. During the end of a plants life cycle they naturally shut off the nutrients it doesn't need anymore, regardless of what you put in the soil. It works the same for all plants, weed isn't special.

After reading The organic myth. by Magash, it got me on a crusade to debunk a lot of well ingrained growing practices. Having a network of fellow growers helps, as it's easy to recruit their resources also. The myths run deep folks; nutrients, light leaks, stresses of all kinds, water quality, temps, flushing, all kinds of garbage out there. It's no wonder new growers get overwhelmed and frustrated and as a result their plants suffer.

Back to the topic, if you have time to wait for your plants to drink it up then gradually watering to full capacity is your best bet. I do this with my clones. The clone cups NEED drainage holes so they go in a baking dish and get watered a few times and left in there until they get heavy. But it's time consuming.

Watering a flowering 5 gal. bucket gradually or lifting it up to put in a Rubbermaid is impossible later in flowering as I'd end up with broken  branches and falling buds. Not to mention the time involved. I came up with this method out of necessity to save time watering. It's so easy to just mix a jug and be able to pour in as fast as you can and walk away. When you go larger and start getting overwhelmed by the plants keep this in mind. Personally, if I could drain the floor I'd use holes.


--------------------
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” -Dr. Seuss


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: DrGreenThumb]
    #709231 - 01/22/14 07:18 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Hey Dr GreenThumb when you did this

Quote:

After reading The organic myth. by Magash, it got me on a crusade to debunk a lot of well ingrained growing practices.




Weren't you amazed by the amount of bullshit that is out-there and thought of as the right way to do things?

I could write a book just on the bullshit alone. :facepalm:


:happyweed:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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OfflineTribalSeed
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: Magash]
    #709235 - 01/22/14 07:51 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Damn, thanks for the read guys. You are right Greenthumb, it is extremely frustrating reading thru shit and most of it contradicting the last thing you read. Thanks again guys!


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OfflineTank333
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: DrGreenThumb] * 1
    #709268 - 01/23/14 03:47 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Watering a flowering 5 gal. bucket gradually or lifting it up to put in a Rubbermaid is impossible later in flowering as I'd end up with broken branches and falling buds. Not to mention the time involved. I came up with this method out of necessity to save time watering. It's so easy to just mix a jug and be able to pour in as fast as you can and walk away. When you go larger and start getting overwhelmed by the plants keep this in mind. Personally, if I could drain the floor I'd use holes.




This right here is one of the biggest reasons I do hydro rather than soil. In a room that's packed wall-to-wall with flowering plants, you can't always reach everything. In hydro, everything always gets watered (provided no pump or controller failures) perfectly evenly and you have complete control of the entire system from one point (the main rez).


--------------------
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OfflineTribalSeed
SoulJah


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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: Tank333]
    #709503 - 01/23/14 08:33 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tank333 said:
Quote:

Watering a flowering 5 gal. bucket gradually or lifting it up to put in a Rubbermaid is impossible later in flowering as I'd end up with broken branches and falling buds. Not to mention the time involved. I came up with this method out of necessity to save time watering. It's so easy to just mix a jug and be able to pour in as fast as you can and walk away. When you go larger and start getting overwhelmed by the plants keep this in mind. Personally, if I could drain the floor I'd use holes.




This right here is one of the biggest reasons I do hydro rather than soil. In a room that's packed wall-to-wall with flowering plants, you can't always reach everything. In hydro, everything always gets watered (provided no pump or controller failures) perfectly evenly and you have complete control of the entire system from one point (the main rez).



That's what is making hydro really attractive to me, but I am still a n00b to the growing experience so I went for soil because of the forgiveness that soil gives. I thought about doing a little Rubbermaid 4 or 6 site hydro setup just to get a feel for it and see if its the route I want to take later on, but for now I gotta stick with the dirt.lol.


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: For Soil Growers, WTF to do with water runoff?????? [Re: TribalSeed]
    #709548 - 01/24/14 12:02 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TribalSeed said:
Quote:

Tank333 said:
Quote:

Watering a flowering 5 gal. bucket gradually or lifting it up to put in a Rubbermaid is impossible later in flowering as I'd end up with broken branches and falling buds. Not to mention the time involved. I came up with this method out of necessity to save time watering. It's so easy to just mix a jug and be able to pour in as fast as you can and walk away. When you go larger and start getting overwhelmed by the plants keep this in mind. Personally, if I could drain the floor I'd use holes.




This right here is one of the biggest reasons I do hydro rather than soil. In a room that's packed wall-to-wall with flowering plants, you can't always reach everything. In hydro, everything always gets watered (provided no pump or controller failures) perfectly evenly and you have complete control of the entire system from one point (the main rez).



That's what is making hydro really attractive to me, but I am still a n00b to the growing experience so I went for soil because of the forgiveness that soil gives. I thought about doing a little Rubbermaid 4 or 6 site hydro setup just to get a feel for it and see if its the route I want to take later on, but for now I gotta stick with the dirt.lol.




It's a myth that beginners shouldn't do hydro.

Remember with hydro there is complete control. Find a problem and it's taken care of in minutes rather then flushing the shit out of a bunch of soil pots. Watering, ph control, nutrient strength to the plants, all easier to do with hydro. Last as long as everything is on timers and dialed in you can leave for days without needing a person to check the plants. :wink:


:wink:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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