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OfflineBlackd0ve420
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Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 160
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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: WildBud420]
    #688964 - 10/12/13 06:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

First off thanks for moving me where I need to be, you can tell I don't post here much haha, though it's nice to still see some familiar faces :smile:.

I read though the sudden amount of posts (Thanks you guys for contributing to my log). And it seems to be another light fight lol.. And my stance on HPS/HIDS in comparison to CFL is represented by:
Quote:

WildBud420 said:
Quote:

DonkeyDong69 said:
It doesn't matter though. CFL's are very inefficient compared to a MH/HPS HIDs, irrespective of growth phase. Recommending CFLs for any growth phase over an HID is most probably a mistake.




No question HID's are better, but they are more expensive, and generate a lot more heat. In a 2x2x4 tent heat is a concern especially if your not or can't air cool the light.




I am using the CFL's because I don't plan to have a huge monster plant...maybe two decent size ones and the rest smaller.. I am going more towards a sea of green..Also with the mylar tent and 95%+ reflection rate, I'm confident three-four bright 100 watt CFL's will get what I'm looking for. The two plants I posted previously were grown from CFL's (Alot shittier ones too). I'll review some of the ones posted. But I still got to save up for a fan with a carbon filter!...and maybe just a regular fan!! I have a space heater in there with just the fan fuction on and the door open just to keep it at 80...I can't imagine having a light that is even higher in heat output...and that is why I use CFL. I understand there may some who'd insist to use something else...but this is what I can afford and what I have available to me so sit back and see how a indoor grow-op can survive on a budget!

Anyways my 2nd light arrives the 16th, also a holder for them will arive the 21st (Will help me place the light closer to them to give them more light). By that time they'll be wanting some more light anyways. This 2nd one should be enough to get me through a while, though I'll know they'll be demanding more light. It'll be around that point I'll be making decisions on how high to keep them (While using LST).

Germination rate for the Purple Thai's have been perfect! I just thinned out the heard today and transplanted a few sprouts on hopes they'd survive. No hawaiian has sprouted yet...still holding out on one cube that might show promise. One of the unknown cubes sprouted. And all four of my bag seed mids sprouted. The purple thai is what I'll mainly be working with.

Right now they're all on a 12/8 timer. I squirt them down if they appear dry with a 8 fluid oz solution with 4 ml of step 1 of canna coco (Nitrogen fert basically). They have likened to that very much. The next step is waiting until they've outgrown their greenhouse dome to softly place them in a canna coco filled self watering pot! Will keep you all posted :smile:.

Also planted some jalapenos, sleepy grass, hbwr, and piper a. Got me a little garden growing [^_^].

*will update with pictures shortly*

1. My small family :smile:. I took off the plastic cover to the green house get a better shot of what I have.

2. Here are the Purple Thais! Great germination right? Straight seed to peat moss. I sprayed/mini fed the sprouts before taking pictures so I know not to drown them :wink:. I usually wait until the pellets start looking a little dry. They're growing great! The super long one is the big sister out of all of them with about 2-3 day head start



3. Annnnd here are the mids awakening from their slumber :smile:. The middle part with nothing growing is the part with the hawaiians which I suspect might be dead except for 1 and a few other miscellaneous strains, the one on the right aisle (inch seedling) is from an unknown local dro seed.



4. Here is what they're getting transplanted into , will simply water in their nutrients. I'll grab some shots of the "Self watering" pots too. And here is the light I use:


Another reason my focus is not all on lights is cause I need to also focus on getting one of these babies: Item Weight 17.4 pounds
Product Dimensions 20.3 x 14.9 x 11 inches
Item model number IF4CF412
Size Inline Fan -4" duct * Carbon Filter - 4 x 12


Edited by Blackd0ve420 (10/12/13 07:06 PM)


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: Blackd0ve420]
    #688978 - 10/12/13 07:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

With the power your wasting on that cfl light I can do this with dixie cups.



I realize you don't need much. I'm not saying replace the 200 watt cfl with 200 watts of HID I'm saying replace it with 75 even 100 watts of HID and still get better growth. (way better growth to be honest)


If your happy with your setup then by all means keep doing what works for you. I've been under the lights since 1985 and have used tubes, cfl, and just about ever kind of light you can think of and since I'm a mod here it's my job to let you know when there is a more efficient way to do things :wink:


:happyweed:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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OfflineBlackd0ve420
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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: Magash]
    #688981 - 10/12/13 08:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
With the power your wasting on that cfl light I can do this with dixie cups.



I realize you don't need much. I'm not saying replace the 200 watt cfl with 200 watts of HID I'm saying replace it with 75 even 100 watts of HID and still get better growth. (way better growth to be honest)


If your happy with your setup then by all means keep doing what works for you. I've been under the lights since 1985 and have used tubes, cfl, and just about ever kind of light you can think of and since I'm a mod here it's my job to let you know when there is a more efficient way to do things :wink:


:happyweed:




I don't blame you for using a different source of light for all those plants...I only might be doing half of that if I'm lucky... you get the picture. How old are those btw? Just trying to gauge how long I'll have to veg them for.

And I would only consider getting a HPS if I had a better fan/ventilation system. The heat would kill them. This does look appealing, but I would only consider it after I address the temperature/ventilation issues..Otherwise I think cfl's will be enough for me (And might use this as a platform to show it :wink:)

Also no disrespect to any of you but I trust my Medical Marijuana grow bible and it has nothing bad to say about cfl's. They state themselves they're lower on heat and energy, but it does seem to appear HPS is better for higher quantity like the picture you posted..."bulk light". I probably will purchase a 100-150 HPS ballast like the one mentioned in place of a 2700k cfl for near the flowering stage. "Compact Fluorescent lamps can also be used to supplement the reddish-yellow spectrum from HP sodium lamps"-pg 200 Marijuana Horticulture Indoor/Outdoor Medical Grower's Bible. See?..Maybe we can get along after all :mariopeace:


P.S.: While we're on the topic, since you are obviously knowledgeable about HPS I was wondering what your thoughts were on this thread?


Edited by Blackd0ve420 (10/12/13 08:29 PM)


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: Blackd0ve420]
    #689019 - 10/13/13 05:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)


Well if it's the grow bible by Greg Green your reading your better off starting off a camp fire with it. He's never actually grown a plant but is smart enough to read the back of the box the bulb came in so I don't think it's that one your reading. To say that the information in this book is a bit outdated is a mild understatement.



If it's this one it's also old but I know for a fact that it sure as hell doesn't print any false information like cfl lights running cooler then HID.

It also can't be the Ed Rosenthal version cause I taught at Oaksterdam University with him and know for a fact he wouldn't say that or print it.


Yes a 200 watt HID is hotter then a 200 watt cfl but they are not for the same space. The 150 watt HID you put up is 8 times the light you need if that cfl your using now is enough light. Thats what were trying to tell you is the HID light you need for your size garden won't need any help to remove heat. If a 200 watt cfl puts out enough lumens for you then a 75 watt HID will.

Stop comparing watts and start comparing lumens cause till you do that you are incorrectly researching your bulbs.

There is no job that a cfl can do that correctly sized HID can't do better.


:happyweed:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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OfflineBlackd0ve420
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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: Magash]
    #689133 - 10/14/13 09:58 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:


If it's this one it's also old but I know for a fact that it sure as hell doesn't print any false information like cfl lights running cooler then HID.





Are you sure it's false?.....That is the exact book and it's in its 5th addition published in 2006...not that old
Quote:

Publication date: 3/28/2006
Edition number: 5
Pages: 486
Sales rank: 44,789.




Another quote:
Quote:

Although not as bright as HIDs they are available in Cool White and Warm White spectrums and generate little heat. CFL's are perfect for growers with a limited budget and a small space. They run cooler then HIDs and require minimal ventilation.




Quote:

CFL's are great for rooting cuttings. Some people even use them to grow cannabis. Buds that flower under fluorescent lack density and weight.




I don't even disagree with this and can understand why a HPS, HID would be useful for the flowering stage (which is what I posted earlier). However it appears that cfl's do just fine for the first half of a plant's growth cycle+cuttings.

Quote:

Light from CFL's fades fast and must be placed close tot he plants. The bulb produces very little heat and can be mounted about two inches away from foliage to achieve best results.




I think we all knew that 1st sentence. But again it mentions the low heating element of cfl's.

*With a picture of a similar looking CFL as I*:
Quote:

CFL's produce plenty of light of the proper spectrum to grow and flower a decent crop.




Quote:

CFL will normally last 10-20,000 hours (18-36 months at 18 hours daily use)...........My preference is to use the long CFLs that are not attached to the ballast.


(So it seems even he uses CFLs...)

I see a lot of good things about cfl's. While I see you have an obvious inclination for HPS or HID to dismiss these facts from a well respected book (RECOMMENDED by HawksApprentice) that you call old/outdated.. (The info is still plenty relevant)+ the thread I posted+++all the successful grows I've seen with them.. then you're just exhibiting product bias which doesn't really make me trust your opinion if all it is is cfl bashing...this isn't meant to be hurtful or rude but just the simple truth..I have no doubts you've had great success as you've shown..but they're other ways to accomplish it is all I'm saying.


Now with all that out of the way I want to remind you that I think it is a good idea to have a HPS ballast 150 watt over head with the two cfl's supplementing the plants on the side. For now, if cuttings work great with cfl's then my seedlings and good part of my vegetative growth will do just fine. Close to the flowering stage it seems CFLs lose their luster.

Also, I do look at the lumens rather then wattages..I bought my cfl pretty cheap and they produce 7500 lumens (verified by my book 7000-8000 lumens for 100 watt)..not to mention all the reflective light I get from my mylar too..
Quote:

The goal is to have 10,000 lumens for your plants.


I obviously keep this in consideration. The reason I planted so many seeds is because I wanted to increase my chances of success, or do a sea of green if I decide to do that instead...or do cuttings THEN do a sea of green...who knows, right now they're just babies we can plan their future later :smile:.

To summarize this is not me bashing you but simply taking up the CFL side of the argument, since no one else seems to care to besides wildbud420 (3.5 feet? Nice! Over half as tall as me..). They work fine, books, people, and articles say they work fine...yes HPS/HID have their advantages too which is why I will likely implement later down the line when it's needed nor do I say CFL's are better then any of them...but after re-reading all these quotes I posted again it seems that my use of them is not uncalled for.


P.S. If you want any pictures/page numbers of the book just let me know :thumbup:

Now to go check on my babies! [^_^] :mariopeace:
____________________________________________________________________


Also as an update to the seedlings everyone is doing great :smile:. The hawaiians I think weren't viable, none of them germinated except maybe one. One of the local unknown dro seeds is now a sturdy tall seedling now. The four bag seed mids are all successful/growing great.

The color on all the leaves are a nice growery.org green and showed impressive growth over the past day! Soon the plastic top will have to come off.


Edited by Blackd0ve420 (10/14/13 10:34 AM)


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Offlinebudgrowerwannabe
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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: Blackd0ve420]
    #689139 - 10/14/13 11:41 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Blackd0ve420 said:
Quote:

Magash said:


If it's this one it's also old but I know for a fact that it sure as hell doesn't print any false information like cfl lights running cooler then HID.





Are you sure it's false?.....That is the exact book and it's in its 5th addition published in 2006...not that old
Quote:

Publication date: 3/28/2006
Edition number: 5
Pages: 486
Sales rank: 44,789.




Another quote:
Quote:

Although not as bright as HIDs they are available in Cool White and Warm White spectrums and generate little heat. CFL's are perfect for growers with a limited budget and a small space. They run cooler then HIDs and require minimal ventilation.




Quote:

CFL's are great for rooting cuttings. Some people even use them to grow cannabis. Buds that flower under fluorescent lack density and weight.




I don't even disagree with this and can understand why a HPS, HID would be useful for the flowering stage (which is what I posted earlier). However it appears that cfl's do just fine for the first half of a plant's growth cycle+cuttings.

Quote:

Light from CFL's fades fast and must be placed close tot he plants. The bulb produces very little heat and can be mounted about two inches away from foliage to achieve best results.




I think we all knew that 1st sentence. But again it mentions the low heating element of cfl's.

*With a picture of a similar looking CFL as I*:
Quote:

CFL's produce plenty of light of the proper spectrum to grow and flower a decent crop.




Quote:

CFL will normally last 10-20,000 hours (18-36 months at 18 hours daily use)...........My preference is to use the long CFLs that are not attached to the ballast.


(So it seems even he uses CFLs...)

I see a lot of good things about cfl's. While I see you have an obvious inclination for HPS or HID to dismiss these facts from a well respected book (RECOMMENDED by HawksApprentice) that you call old/outdated.. (The info is still plenty relevant)+ the thread I posted+++all the successful grows I've seen with them.. then you're just exhibiting product bias which doesn't really make me trust your opinion if all it is is cfl bashing...this isn't meant to be hurtful or rude but just the simple truth..I have no doubts you've had great success as you've shown..but they're other ways to accomplish it is all I'm saying.


Now with all that out of the way I want to remind you that I think it is a good idea to have a HPS ballast 150 watt over head with the two cfl's supplementing the plants on the side. For now, if cuttings work great with cfl's then my seedlings and good part of my vegetative growth will do just fine. Close to the flowering stage it seems CFLs lose their luster.

Also, I do look at the lumens rather then wattages..I bought my cfl pretty cheap and they produce 7500 lumens (verified by my book 7000-8000 lumens for 100 watt)..not to mention all the reflective light I get from my mylar too..
Quote:

The goal is to have 10,000 lumens for your plants.


I obviously keep this in consideration. The reason I planted so many seeds is because I wanted to increase my chances of success, or do a sea of green if I decide to do that instead...or do cuttings THEN do a sea of green...who knows, right now they're just babies we can plan their future later :smile:.

To summarize this is not me bashing you but simply taking up the CFL side of the argument, since no one else seems to care to besides wildbud420 (3.5 feet? Nice! Over half as tall as me..). They work fine, books, people, and articles say they work fine...yes HPS/HID have their advantages too which is why I will likely implement later down the line when it's needed nor do I say CFL's are better then any of them...but after re-reading all these quotes I posted again it seems that my use of them is not uncalled for.


P.S. If you want any pictures/page numbers of the book just let me know :thumbup:

Now to go check on my babies! [^_^] :mariopeace:
____________________________________________________________________


Also as an update to the seedlings everyone is doing great :smile:. The hawaiians I think weren't viable, none of them germinated except maybe one. One of the local unknown dro seeds is now a sturdy tall seedling now. The four bag seed mids are all successful/growing great.

The color on all the leaves are a nice growery.org green and showed impressive growth over the past day! Soon the plastic top will have to come off.





Hey which book are you reading ??
Mags saying that gregg sucks dick at growing!!LOL


The Bible man thats the one man!! By jorge cervantes


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OfflineBlackd0ve420
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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: budgrowerwannabe]
    #689141 - 10/14/13 12:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Bible man thats the one man!! By jorge cervantes




That's the one, 5th and most recent 2006 edition.


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: Blackd0ve420] * 1
    #689201 - 10/14/13 07:09 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

If your gonna quote the book then go to page 172 then find me one example of a cfl light putting out as many lumens per watt as any of the bulbs on this page. You can start at page 209. The best is 15000 lumens per 200 watt bulb.


and yes he states that the life of the cfl is longer that is until you use it in growing situations esp when used with other HID bulbs. Page 211 first paragraph.

I never said you can't grow with cfl lights I'm saying for the fuck knows how many times HID lights do it more efficiently. As far as cfl lights being cooler your book also proves that wrong if you knew how to read it.

Now lets see if I can explain this so you can under stand it.

If you have 2 bulbs that run at 200 watts each and one puts out more light then the other what is the other doing with energy that isn't being turned into light? Comon now you can do this there is only one answer. It turns it into heat.

Now you have two grow rooms that need 28000 lumens each. One is using HID one is using CFL which is hotter? The room that runs 200 watts or the one that has to run 500 to get the same light?

Quote:

CFL's are great for rooting cuttings. Some people even use them to grow cannabis. Buds that flower under fluorescent lack density and weight.




Wasn't this a clue? YOu also realize that most people don't really want airy buds right?


So according to your book CFL lights are hotter unless you can show me just one example of otherwise. I'm not bashing them if the facts are the facts. There are more efficient bulbs period. That's why serious growers don't use them. They have better things to do then waste money on power that isn't being turned into light.

You may want to use a book from a guy who has been growing since 1969


Here is the site that goes with the book so if some information gets outdated it will be shown here or if new information comes out.
http://mjgrowers.com/home.htm

and before you go and throw HawksApprentice at me again you may want to pick a grower who has at least 50% of the time growing I've had and last you may also want to pick a grower who doesn't agree with me on cfl lights.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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OfflineBlackd0ve420
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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: Magash]
    #689316 - 10/15/13 11:32 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
If your gonna quote the book then go to page 172 then find me one example of a cfl light putting out as many lumens per watt as any of the bulbs on this page. You can start at page 209. The best is 15000 lumens per 200 watt bulb.  (Btw 7500x2=15,000 so I guess I got the best :lol:).


and yes he states that the life of the cfl is longer that is until you use it in growing situations esp when used with other HID bulbs. Page 211 first paragraph.

I never said you can't grow with cfl lights I'm saying for the fuck knows how many times HID lights do it more efficiently. As far as cfl lights being cooler your book also proves that wrong if you knew how to read it.

Now lets see if I can explain this so you can under stand it.

If you have 2 bulbs that run at 200 watts each and one puts out more light then the other what is the other doing with energy that isn't being turned into light? Comon now you can do this there is only one answer. It turns it into heat.

Now you have two grow rooms that need 28000 lumens each. One is using HID one is using CFL which is hotter? The room that runs 200 watts or the one that has to run 500 to get the same light?

Quote:

CFL's are great for rooting cuttings. Some people even use them to grow cannabis. Buds that flower under fluorescent lack density and weight.




Wasn't this a clue? YOu also realize that most people don't really want airy buds right?


So according to your book CFL lights are hotter unless you can show me just one example of otherwise. I'm not bashing them if the facts are the facts. There are more efficient bulbs period. That's why serious growers don't use them. They have better things to do then waste money on power that isn't being turned into light.

You may want to use a book from a guy who has been growing since 1969


Here is the site that goes with the book so if some information gets outdated it will be shown here or if new information comes out.
http://mjgrowers.com/home.htm

and before you go and throw HawksApprentice at me again you may want to pick a grower who has at least 50% of the time growing I've had and last you may also want to pick a grower who doesn't agree with me on cfl lights.




Dude how did you become a Trusted Cultivator and moderator on this site  if you all you do is try and belittle anyone that has a difference of opinion then you? We could go all week swapping facts back and forth. You're even bashing on hawks? Damn man that's harsh, he helped me a lot on my first go and is a nice guy.

I really have nothing more to say to you man you're not being helpful and everyone can see that. I would like to request you not post in MY grow log if this is how you're going to behave. I do not need help from you and you can sit back and see for yourself that this grow op will do just fine and will accomplish what I set out for it.
_________________________________________________________________


Also, I'm not getting baited into a fact war with you. I'm not stupid I know you have more experience then me, but you're obviously using it just to boost your ego here on these forums and not to actually help. So as much as facts go this round I'm not entertaining you with a further defense of what is already known..also you're obviously not even reading what I say all the way through...


Quote:

Quote:

CFL's are great for rooting cuttings. Some people even use them to grow cannabis. Buds that flower under fluorescent lack density and weight.



Wasn't this a clue? YOu also realize that most people don't really want airy buds right?






Dude I said CFL's work just fine UNTIL FLOWERING in which case I agree with you CFL's aren't enough to flower unless you have a redic amount of them and even said I would probably plan to get a 150 watt HPS.....why are you even arguing with me I'm not even going against what you said...

Also do you even remember the reason I got CFL's in the first place???? I am working with a VERY small space with reflective surfaces that will make that small space even hotter and I don't have proper fanning/ventilation yet so yes I will pick CFL's because they are obviously cooler...let's see you try put HID/HPS 2 inches from your plants and see how quickly they burn up and die...

Also every forum I've ever been in has said they run cooler, my book says they run cooler, and in fact YOU'RE the only person I've ever heard in my entire life that has even tried to take up the argument that CFL's run hotter...
_____________________________________________________________________

On that note my 2nd CFL arrived today and my stand will come for them soon :tongue2:. Will eventually get a 150 hps when funds are available. Also got my 420 scope today for down the road :cheers:


Edited by Blackd0ve420 (10/15/13 01:20 PM)


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: Blackd0ve420]
    #689362 - 10/15/13 02:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

.let's see you try put HID/HPS 2 inches from your plants and see how quickly they burn up and die...




Not a problem cause I'd read the box and know that I'd need a 50 to 75 watt HID that would not need any additional help to remove heat. I'd have more light then you at less cost without having to do shit to remove heat.

I in no way bashed on Hawks I even have a PM to him so he can see this. We both feel the exact same way about cfl lights. I'm sure as soon as he is unbanned he will chime in.


Quote:

my book says they run cooler,




No actually it doesn't I already showed you where it says otherwise.

Whats funny is you can't give one example of a cfl bulb that can convert power to light better then a HID.


Does 200watts of cfl run cooler then 200watts of HID well duh of course it does nobody said otherwise but 200 watts of cfl and 200watts of HID are not made for the same job. Would I put a 75 watt close to the plants sure no problem.

You read in forums that cfl lights are cooler? Show me just one that isn't comparing like wattages just 1.




Why do I keep up with this simple.
When somebody is giving false information I have to point it out and tell people to read the damn back of the box the bulb came in or to at the very least learn to figure out what it takes for each bulb to produce the same amount of light lumens.

Here is how your suppose to figure light for your space
Now you have 4x4 foot space and a 200 watt cfl and a 200 watt HID which is gonna light the space better? (this is a example I realize you don't have this size space)
So as you know a HID will light the space better right? So now that person decides to add more cfl light to the space to equal the light from the 200watt HID. So now you have two spaces with equal light in them. 1 space has a 200watt HID and 1 space has 700 watts of cfl's which space is hotter? Do you understand now why people make the fuckup? I'm gonna guess that you can figure out that 700watts of cfl light is gonna run hotter then 200 of HID light.

Do you understand how the lights work now? Do you get why both Hawks and myself pull our hair out with this subject? and yes Hawks may have advised you on your grow but I know for a fact he did not tell you to use cfl light esp when he knows about LED lights which run just as cool and are way more efficient. In fact I'm dying to see his reaction to somebody saying he recommended them.

:happyweed:


--------------------
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OfflineBlackd0ve420
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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: Magash]
    #689366 - 10/15/13 02:44 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Remember
250W HPS- (300W actual), 29,000 Lumens, 97Lumens/Watt

Verses your mix which weighs in as follows

387watts 28,000 Lumens, 72 Lumens/Watt

If you just used the HID, you'll get an extra 1,000 lumens and use almost 100 watts less power.

Don't get me wrong, CFL are great, espescially for side lighting and their low heat etc. Hell, they're all I can afford, but I guess this sort of proves my point:
If efficiency/cost are your only concern, cfls lose their bennefit unless you're running around 200W of light or less overall.

Also people should note that HPS lights 150W or less aren't anywhere near as light efficient as their big cousins. Again don't get me wrong, I'll admit i never tried one and can't afford one. Also HID (HPS) Light does penetrate the canopy better, but if they're going to have almost the same efficiency as CFL (in terms of lumens/watt) until you clear the 250W HPS hurdle, then I'd personally run CFL and distribute the light with good bulb placement. Food for thought anyway.




CFLs vs HID Lights

If you want to start an argument fast, then visit an Internet Grow Forum or Chat Room and mention CFLs vs HID Lights. (HID Lights = High Intensity Discharge Lights)
Let me just tell you a fact. HID Lights (High Intensity Discharge Lights) are much more efficient than CFLs (Compact Fluorescent Lights) and they grow FASTER and penetrate a large plant much better than CFLs do. HID lights grow tighter denser buds too. That is a fact no one should argue. HIDs win easily.

Wait a minute. What costs more to purchase? What requires a fancier Reflector and costs more to hang? What cost more to use and adds more to the electric bill? What cost more to handle the HEAT? What do I have to VENT? What will VENTING cost?

HEAT? VENTING? I can touch a 200 watt CFL for ten seconds and not burn my hand. I can hold a burning 42, 65, or 85 watt bulb in my hand for five seconds and not get burnt. I can touch a HID bulb for half a second and have a serious blister and burn. Touching a HID bulb is like touching the burner on an electric stove. If you use HID bulbs, not only will you have to cool the bulb, you will have to cool the grow area too. Growing with HID lights requires VENTING the HEAT, and that cost extra money, BIG MONEY.

If you are a large scale grower, or commercial grower, HID lights are best for you.
If you are a small grower, a closet or tent grower, an occasional grower, a small scale personal use grower, then CFLs are your best, easiest, cheapest way to grow.

As I mentioned, I like the cheaper CFLs because of their mobility and ease of use. When I did my first grow over three years ago, a 65 watt CFL bulb was the largest made and sold. Today I see up to 300 watt CFLS, but I do not advise using the larger watt CFL bulbs.



Let me share a magazine article with you about Lighting.

From Ed Rosenthal:

In the new Skunk Magazine there was a question in the "Ask Ed" section that just made my night last night when reading it...



The Question Was:

I intend to grow a single cannabis plant in a space 1' x 2'. What light would you recommend? I was think of using four 30-watt compact fluorescent lamps. Will this be enough? Cost isn't an issue but I am deterred from getting a high pressure sodium [light] because of the amount of heat the bulb produces.

The Answer Is:

As you mentioned, you have several lighting systems to choose from, including compact fluorescents and high pressure sodium (HPS) lamps. Among HPS lamps you have a choice between a single 100-watt lamp which uses a total of about 120-watts and emits about 8,800 lumens(73 lumens per watt) or a 150-watt lamp, which uses about 180 watts and emits almost double that-15,800 lumens (87 lumens per watt).

A 42-watt compact fluorescent (CFL) emits about 2700 lumens(64 lumens per watt). Four 42 watt CFLs use 168 watts and emit 10,800 lumens. Other size CFLs have a similar efficiency.

However, that is only part of the story. Plants use mostly red and blue light. Yellow and green light is of little use to them, so light that is emitted in these spectrums is wasted energy. Most of the light emitted by HPS lamps is in the yellow spectrum. Only a small amount of the emitted light is in the orange or red spectrums, which plants use efficiently. Warm white fluorescents (2700 Kelvin) emit a greater portion in the red and orange sectors.
Although fluorescents produce only about 75% of the light per watt that the HPS does, the amount of light usable by the plant is equal or probably higher with the fluorescents. You may wish to experiment to see if adding a single cool white CFL to replace one warm white results in shorter, stouter stems and more vigorous growth. The reasoning is that warm whites don't emit much blue light, which the plants use for photosynthesis and to regulate their growth. The cool white bulb supplies the blue light.

My call for your unit would be to use several (three to five) CFLs with a total input of between 120-160 watts. Although the 150 watt HPS is a bit more efficient that the CFLs in total output, watt for watt the fluorescents provide as much useful light as the HPS lamp. Heat is another consideration. The HPS runs much hotter and emits more heat than the flourescents.

Make sure to use reflective material around the garden so that any light escaping the garden is reflected back to the plants. Any light that doesn't get to the plant leaves is wasted.


Look at a lumen/watt ration of various CFL's. The higher the wattage of CFLs, the lower the lumen/watt ratio. This chart was submitted by Jerry Garcia, a grow buddy from another grow site, and edited for typos.

For example...

the 200w listed at 9250 lumens for a lumens/watt ratio of 9250/200=46.25

the 150w is listed at 7500 lumens for a l/w ratio of 7500/150=50

the 125w is listed at 6500 lumens for a l/w ratio of 6500/125=52

the 42w are listed for 2700 lumens, l/w ratio of 2700/42=64.28

I have some 26w that give off 1700 lumens for a l/w ratio of 1700/26=65.38

GE lists some 13w that give off 825 lumens for a l/w ratio of 825/13=63.46

So, according to these numbers the most efficient bulbs for growing are the 26w that emit 1700 lumens. If you used 8 26w bulbs (208 watts total) you'd be getting 13,600 lumens...4,350 more lumens than a single 200 watt CFL. AND the eight 26 watt bulbs would cost less than the one 200 watt bulb.

I suppose you need to purchase more sockets and cords and things to support 8 bulbs, but in the long run more lower watt CFLs seem like the way to go.
_______________________________________
Edit:Grow lighting: HPS or CFL?
Question

I am not sure what kind of grow lighting I should get. I plan on growing 2 plants but I am on a tight budget and have a very small grow space (only 32" high). I've heard you can grow plants in very small spaces like a computer case, so this cupboard should be big enough.

I thought a 150w HPS grow light would be a bit big/hot for my space, so I'm thinking about going with CFLs instead. What do you recommend?


Summary:

Plan on growing 2 plants
Short grow space (32" / 80 cm)
150W HPS or CFLs?
Answer

It depends.

CFLs are generally better suited to such a small growing space. They will do the job of getting plants to grow and can produce dank buds, but will take more work from you on a regular basis as you'll need to adjust the lights every few days. These lights must be kept very close to your plants, and plants quickly grow into the lights if you're not tending your garden.

HPS grow lights don't need to be adjusted as often and they produce a more intense light (greater lumen/watt ratio) that gets plants to grow faster than with CFLs. Generally you'll get better overall results with an HPS (though CFLs can definitely produce dank buds too). Yet in such a tight grow space, an HPS takes up several more precious inches of vertical space than CFLs.

Heat

No matter which one you choose, you're going to need ventilation to control the heat in such a small grow space. CFLs run cool, but they'll still heat up a small space quickly.

I've used both CFLs and a 150 HPS in a cupboard, and the most important factor is using an exhaust system with a fan to constantly move the air and keep temps down.

Home depot and/or most home improvement stores sell 70 CFM bathroom fans, which exchanges air faster than a 150W HPS light can heat up your space (these fans cost around $35). You would place the fan in your exhaust hole at the top of your grow space, and use the fan to pull all the hot air out through the exhaust.

Space

As you stated, an HPS will require more space than CFLs. In addition to the size of the actual HPS bulb and reflector, you must consider that a 150W light will need to be kept further away from the tops of plants (usually 6-8").

In a cool environment, I've seen growers keep the tops of plants just 3" away from the glass of a 150W reflector, but that's as close as you could possibly get, and would require that you use a good fan to vent out all the heat through an exhaust hole that goes outside.

This HPS light is 7" tall. So if you consider that plants must be 3" (or more) away from the reflector, that means the light takes 10"+ of space, leaving you with less than 22" for your plants and their containers. It's quite a tight fit, but it can be done, especially with training techniques to keep your plants short.

With CFLs, bulbs placed horizontally take up just a few inches, and plants can be kept just 2" away. That means CFLs only need about 5" of vertical space, giving you quite a few more inches for your plants to grow. There really aren't any other grow lights that need less space than CFLs. This is why CFLs are so popular for cupboard and PC grows.

It's really a toss-up as far as space. Would you rather spend your time training plants to grow short, or would you rather tend to your CFL lights? In a small space like yours, it's hard to say for certain what's actually going to be easier for you.

Speaking of space, you may also want to consider looking into auto-flowering strains, as they naturally grow very short.

Electricity

A 150W HPS light draws about 160W of electricity to run. That's less than your average TV or desktop computer, and comes out to less than $5/month where I live even if you're running the grow light all the time.

CFLs don't produce as much light per watt as an HPS, so they are less efficient (as far as how much light is produced compared to how much electricity they use).

Just to give you an example, if you buy 6 x 26W CFLs, you'll be using about as much electricity as a 150W HPS and you'll be producing less light, but you'll also have more room in your grow space for your plants, and you'll have more freedom to arrange the lights as you want around the plant.

Safety

Safety is another thing to consider that a lot of people forget when choosing grow lights. Doing everything DIY (like with CFLs) is cheaper, but adds safety risks since they're not designed for gardening.

When you buy products that are specifically designed for growing, there are more safety features. If you use 5+ CFL bulbs in a small space you increase your risk of fire or other accidents. More sockets... more plugs... more heat.... All things to consider.

Results/Yields

Both HPS and CFLs can produce stellar results. My first few grows were all with CFLs, and I was impressed with the quality and potency of my buds. Yet nothing beats the density and bag appeal of buds grown under an HPS.

As far as yields, it really depends a whole lot on your grow style and how well you adapt to using each type of light. The skills it takes to master an HPS are different than the skills needed to master CFLs. It's been proven that both options can produce a few ounces of buds in a small space, but it's almost impossible to definitively say that one option is better than the other.

_____________________________________________________________________
Why I continue to conversate with one that doesn't even bother to open his mind to read something new. I also didn't find anything in what you referred to in the book that would dampen my position on using CFL's in my tiny space w/mylar tent..


How about a little more researching and a little less bashing. For my situation cfl's are just fine.
1. Initial cost is cheap
2. On small grows efficieny is just as good
3. Can grow cannabis even to flower (though not as good as HPS)
4. Runs cool can be held up to plants
5. Has a high life expectancy

HPS
1. Deeper light penetration
2. Can be used perfectly through all stages
3. Can run hot and take up more space for smaller grows...
4. More expensive start up

Combined both would work good.

Quote:

Here is how your suppose to figure light for your space
Now you have 4x4 foot space and a 200 watt cfl and a 200 watt HID which is gonna light the space better? (this is a example I realize you don't have this size space)





I would have a 200 watt cfls and a 150 watt hps...you fail to believe that one puts out more heat then the other so there's no reasoning with you there...but you do have to know that more light equals denser buds so investing in 350 watts of light for all the lumens I'll ever need...yeah..I'm still liking this :cool:
Now leave troll.


LASTLY: No matter who's right or wrong how about you let the bipolar patient grow his plants the way he wants to? That is the purpose of a log isn't it? To record the results of a project and what was used over a period of time?


Edited by Blackd0ve420 (10/15/13 03:11 PM)


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Offlinebudgrowerwannabe
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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: Blackd0ve420]
    #689390 - 10/15/13 05:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Dam my brain hurts coulnt get threw all that.!!!LOL


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: Blackd0ve420] * 2
    #689394 - 10/15/13 06:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You realize that article backs most of what I was saying right? Doesn't matter anymore anyway.

I have been getting endless shit on letting people slide on shit from admins, fellow mods and members here. You had to make it personal in public so today I do my job.


Falsely accusing anybody of anything without proof whether in ratings or in posts that is something you can be banned for.

Show me where I bashed you or where I'm trolling anyone. I have in no way attacked you or resorted to name calling.

You also accused me of bashing on Hawks show me where. Saying he hasn't grown as long as I have isn't bashing on him. I've been under the lights since 1985 I believe he was either 10 or 12 years old at the time so I'm gonna guess it wasn't a false statement.

Show me where I have ever attacked Hawks in anyway.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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OfflineTomCollins


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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: Blackd0ve420]
    #689442 - 10/16/13 07:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Blackd0ve420 said:
If you want to start an argument fast, then visit an Internet Grow Forum or Chat Room and mention CFLs vs HID Lights. (HID Lights = High Intensity Discharge Lights)
Let me just tell you a fact. HID Lights (High Intensity Discharge Lights) are much more efficient than CFLs (Compact Fluorescent Lights) and they grow FASTER and penetrate a large plant much better than CFLs do. HID lights grow tighter denser buds too. That is a fact no one should argue. HIDs win easily.

Wait a minute. What costs more to purchase? What requires a fancier Reflector and costs more to hang? What cost more to use and adds more to the electric bill? What cost more to handle the HEAT? What do I have to VENT? What will VENTING cost?




You're making things waaaay tooo complicated!

In the long run, the answer to all your questions there is the CFL.

You need to think about the time complexity of each light - that is, what is the lumen output (lm), cost (in $$), heat (in C), wattage (watt), energy efficiency per cycle, per bulb over some interval of time.

A quicker but less revealing method would be to take the each bulb (cfl and HID HPS): look at the wattage, figure out the average heat of the light over some time interval, lumens per square meter, and the energy efficiency per cycle. Solve for 1 watt for each light system, and then apply the same conditions to all the other features I listed in this paragraph.

I don't mind at all. I like math a lot - I'm happy to do this step by step.


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


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OfflineTomCollins


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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: TomCollins]
    #689443 - 10/16/13 08:13 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Another perspective to consider is the per grow perspective.

What will 4x100 Watt CFL's cost you per grow (for let's assume 10 grows.) What will be the output?

What will 1x400 Watt HPS bulb + Ballast cost you per grow (let's assume 10 grows again.) What will be the output?

Will any of the bulbs break or go out?

Consider that 400W HPS bulbs are almost the same price as 100 Watt CFL bulbs.


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


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OfflineTomCollins


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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: TomCollins]
    #689444 - 10/16/13 08:23 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

If this is your one and only grow...

Quote:

Blackd0ve420 said:
Wait a minute. What costs more to purchase? What requires a fancier Reflector and costs more to hang? What cost more to use and adds more to the electric bill? What cost more to handle the HEAT? What do I have to VENT? What will VENTING cost?




...then the answer to these questions is the HID. But things become more complex when you do multiple grows.


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


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OfflineBlackd0ve420
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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: Magash]
    #689450 - 10/16/13 09:48 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
You realize that article backs most of what I was saying right? Doesn't matter anymore anyway.





I suppose if you only read the parts that support your side of the argument...

Quote:

I have been getting endless shit on letting people slide on shit from admins, fellow mods and members here. You had to make it personal in public so today I do my job.


Falsely accusing anybody of anything without proof whether in ratings or in posts that is something you can be banned for.




And what did I falsely accuse you of?! :lol: Think about how you're speaking to a self admitted person with mental disorders (From 1st page) and you think I'm being the immature one? You were bashing a different person with similar beliefs as me earlier in my thread..then proceed to the OP when you're done with him? How is that mature...

Also you slightly bashed hawk by making it seem he wasn't as a credible source or seemed to imply that what he did recommending me that book was a mistake and should listen to you instead. Otherwise I wouldn't say you bashed on him hard or anything I just didn't care for you said..

However, as regard to people 'bashing' you are doing it with your assertions you won't let it go....some people like to grow with cfl's too....just drop it. I get you have opinions that you strongly uphold...you're a TC I would hope you are sure of what you say... All I'm saying there are multiple ways to grow a cannabis plant... even you can't deny that. Before you even start getting to what's the best/most efficient etc... let me just stop you.....just drop it.....this log was supposed to be about my log to get my medicine for legit disorders that I have to take many pills for, and am growing in a state where it is 5 years if caught with ONE plant!...

Now ban me if you want, I got great ratings on shroomery with my same SN and have an active thread on the same log over there as well. If I am left to only that log fine by me, probably for the best. If you want to decide to drop the topic all together and simply watch my log...maybe we'd have less of this.

I'm done talking about this. As OP I'm only going to be focusing on my log for now on. Thread jack be gone.


Edited by Blackd0ve420 (10/16/13 11:44 AM)


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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: Blackd0ve420]
    #689678 - 10/18/13 09:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

All still doing well. It seems the extra light and 4ml N/8 fl oz solution (When cubes are dry or every 2 days) are keeping the seedlings happy. The bag seed mids have the biggest leaves/growth out of all of them. Everything else looks ok but I'm sure they'll start thriving once I have them settled into their final home+feeling the effect of being on a consistent feeding schedule. Been pretty hectic here but it's still doing well :smile:.

Also have some stipa robusta sprouts from my ghetto egg carton set up outside :smile:.

:pipesmoke:


Will update with pics when I'm closer to transplanting. Will likely have to thin out what I want to grow some more. At least 1 of each strain and whatever looks the healthiest from there.


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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: Blackd0ve420]
    #690085 - 10/21/13 04:14 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Just updating to say I have thinned out the herd a little bit to make room in the tent. In pots I have 1 unknown dro, 1 Hawaiian, 1 Mid, and the rest Purple Thais :smile:.

I saw that they were well ready for a move so I took and put them in pots/cups with pure coco-coir broken down fiber. Still got plenty left over. I watered the pot a bit and mixed it around (It stores a decent amount of water in there!). I also watered the cubes with a food solution to help with the transition.

It may look more crowded now but it's easier to light them now and I'm sure they're getting a lot more direct light now. My holder came in today, unfortunately it didn't come with a stand...but I think I can rig something up :wink:. It's probably better like this for now the way the lights are while they're seedlings. It's when they get bigger I'll need to use my bulb holder purchase. Also still hoping to buy that 150 hps by November :smile:.

I'll be increasing my watering/food as needs be. Whenever the sub seems/feels try I'll water in with nutrients. I'm mainly using step 1 now to give them that N boost.

At this level I been dosing 16 Fl oz H20/8 ml (4ml step 1/4 ml step 2) and spreading that among the plants (refilling and stopping when all seem sufficiently moist/wet).

I got a regular bigger fan blowing on them to help with the room's pretty closed circulation, it seems to be helping.

Oh I also found another local dro seed! I think I'll try and germinate that one and see if I can get another strain up and running :laugh:

Also here's some pics of my Sleepy Grass, HBWR, and Jalapenos!!! :fire:
____________________________________________________________________

Here you go! Was walking near by and looked at the fence and thought...that's one praying mantis looking wire...oh snap! haha

But anyways I taken some shots of them transplanted into their new 'self watering' pots. My CFL holder arrived not too long ago so I switched out the hanging set up to a rigged set up of a mic stand ghetto fied with half a fishing pole...to let me clamp on with my dual CFL holder (adjustable+on/off switch in the back). I can basically make the pots more compact in the tent while sweeping the small canopy with a wave of day light and moving like the direction of the sun :smile:. It makes things more convenient if anything and was cheap.

Also dropped the one seed I found in some water since last night from a local dro bud and awaiting the results to see if that is viable..




Edited by Blackd0ve420 (10/22/13 07:17 PM)


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Re: Tired of dealing with people..growing my own medicine. [Re: Blackd0ve420]
    #691238 - 10/31/13 12:54 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Happy 1 Month Halloween Birthday!!! :mallow:

These guys have obviously switched over into the veg stage and the biggest one (Purple Thai) Looks amazing! With the Hawaiian right behind it. The three plants that you see leaning have improved and are rising up towards the light so I'm not worried there (2 mids/1 PT).

Equipment status: I am awaiting for the arrival of my 150 watt internal ballast sun system by HTG supply. [^_^], I may also be getting at 175 MH but we'll see. The plants are doing well, I've had to bump them up their food a little bit since their leaves were starting to fade a little lighter which I've read is a sign to increase feeding. I been sticking with once a day and they seem to be doing fine with it :smile:.

I am also aiming at getting a Dual lumen/ph tester as well as some pH up/down to see how my water is.

Also getting a new strain in the mix xD I figured I'd just drop them in a little warm cup this time instead of straight planting them and see how that goes too. I saved the left over peat moss pellets and will do the same method of sprouting them, though this time I have more light as an advantage. I'll use the cfl's to raise the baby seedlings (I love how I can move it so simply) while the 150 hps I've heard from its previous owner
Quote:

Well - I had a 3x3x5 grow big tent (stealth chamber) lol
I had 9 low rider that did amazing with just the light I sent you!


So I feel completely confident light wise! [^_^]. Other then that just playing the waiting game and waiting for signs of sex so I can strangle the males lol. Enjoy the pics!



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