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Invisibleniteowl
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Are you the follower of a religion......if....
    #486410 - 10/09/10 05:29 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

If you do not go to church, but believe that the bible is the 'truth' and the literal word of god.......

Are you the follower of a religion?

I have had many bible thumppers claim that they are not 'religious' nor do they belong to a 'religion' simply because they don't belong/go to a church.

I say bullshit. If you believe that the bible is the 'Word of God' then your a fucking christian and the follower of a fucking religion.

Opinions?


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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OfflineDon King
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Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: niteowl] * 1
    #486412 - 10/09/10 05:34 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I only know what I know and that's that I don't know.


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Only in America!


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Offlinewholesheet
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Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: niteowl]
    #486413 - 10/09/10 05:35 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

i believe .. in the father son and holy ghost.. jesus is they only way.. there r many opinions.. believe what u want.. there is only one truth.. all will know the truth in the end and some know it now.. i don't push it on people but i recommend it.. i believe that going to church is the least u can do for god.. and titheing.. but if u can worship and follow him without it then do it.. and if ya don't wanna believe any that i have said , then so be it .. i am not here to argue.. i was asked so i told..


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OfflineTHEBats
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Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: niteowl]
    #486429 - 10/09/10 06:14 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Nope you would still be part of a religion.  As far as being religious, well that's all relative and people's definition of being religious differs.

Also if you really follow and know the bible you would know church is not necessary.  Instead of doing things for God perhaps it's best to do things for humans.


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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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OfflineFRACTALife
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Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: niteowl]
    #486460 - 10/09/10 07:26 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I think if you say you follow the religion, then you follow it. If you say you don't, you don't. If you say you do and think the same thing that everyone who follows it does and thinks, but you say don't follow it- well that speaks for itself.
It's all BS anyway. :shrug:


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InvisibleGod
Yahweh

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: wholesheet]
    #486486 - 10/09/10 08:20 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wholesheet said:
i was asked so i told



The question asked was actually "is a person considered 'religious' if they believe in and follow a holy text, but don't worship publicly."  You just took the opportunity of the mention of your particular faith to proselytize, which is not very constructive. :nonono:


As to the OP: religion is a particular system of faith and worship.  Unless a major part of that faith is that it requires its members to go to church, I'd agree with you.  Specifically with christianity, the only requirements I'm aware of are belief in Joshua as the christ, asking for his forgiveness, and accepting him "into one's heart."

Here's the best of the unconvincing "evidence" in defense of going to church:

Quote:

NIV version:
Hebrews 10:25
Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

Romans 12:5
... so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.



:rolleyes:


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OfflineTHEBats
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Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: God]
    #486491 - 10/09/10 08:32 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Exactly.  I don't believe in God but the whole notion of church in the christian faith really has no biblical defense as being necessary.  The romans like their rituals though so temple, worship, idols (statues of mary everywhere, rosaries, saints ect.) have their roots in the roman adoption of christianity. 

Really if you take a biblical stand, a lot of what the catholic church does is not only unnecessary but it's sinful. And that's setting aside the child abuse.


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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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InvisibleGod
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Registered: 09/26/08
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Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: THEBats]
    #486495 - 10/09/10 08:45 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:
Really if you take a biblical stand, a lot of what the catholic church does is not only unnecessary but it's sinful. And that's setting aside the child abuse.



:thumbup: Statues of Mary, etc. would be graven images, right?  Praying to saints, confession to a priest...


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: God]
    #486496 - 10/09/10 08:47 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

God said:
Quote:

wholesheet said:
i was asked so i told



The question asked was actually "is a person considered 'religious' if they believe in and follow a holy text, but don't worship publicly."  You just took the opportunity of the mention of your particular faith to proselytize, which is not very constructive. :nonono:




Agreed. I have been nice and not said anything to wholesheet about that yet.

Quote:

As to the OP: religion is a particular system of faith and worship.  Unless a major part of that faith is that it requires its members to go to church, I'd agree with you.




See that is the point I was trying to make with my father. We were having a discussion on religion and how harmful religion was. He is a hardcore fundie christian who agreed that religion was bad but that he wasn't religious because he didn't go to church.

I thought nothing of this till I heard another person say the same thing. They believe the King James Version of The Holy Bible, but don't consider them selves to be a part of religion.

:whatever:


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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OfflineSmOakland
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Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: niteowl]
    #486497 - 10/09/10 08:49 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
If you do not go to church, but believe that the bible is the 'truth' and the literal word of god.......

Are you the follower of a religion?

I have had many bible thumppers claim that they are not 'religious' nor do they belong to a 'religion' simply because they don't belong/go to a church.

I say bullshit. If you believe that the bible is the 'Word of God' then your a fucking christian and the follower of a fucking religion.

Opinions?




Why are you talking to such morons?  Anybody who believes the bible is an idiot.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: SmOakland]
    #486499 - 10/09/10 08:53 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Kinda hard to completely avoid ones family :imslow:


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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OfflineSmOakland
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Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: niteowl]
    #486501 - 10/09/10 08:55 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Kinda hard to completely avoid ones family :imslow:




sorry didn't mean to hate on the fam.  i avoid a lot of my family but i guess that is bad.


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InvisibleGod
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Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: niteowl]
    #486505 - 10/09/10 09:03 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
They believe the King James Version of The Holy Bible, but don't consider them selves to be a part of religion.



The funny thing about that is the KJV was created by the Church of England, which is the exact kind of organization these "nonreligious christians" reject.

Quote:

from Wiki:
[King] James gave the translators instructions intended to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology and reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and its beliefs about an ordained clergy. The translation was by 47 scholars, all of whom were members of the Church of England.



:ilold:


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InvisibleCrayolaHalls
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Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: niteowl]
    #486598 - 10/10/10 03:18 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
If you do not go to church, but believe that the bible is the 'truth' and the literal word of god.......

Are you the follower of a religion?

I have had many bible thumppers claim that they are not 'religious' nor do they belong to a 'religion' simply because they don't belong/go to a church.

I say bullshit. If you believe that the bible is the 'Word of God' then your a fucking christian and the follower of a fucking religion.

Opinions?




Religion is more about dogma and structure than spiritual teachings.  If their reaction to the Bible is to live their life a certain way or act a certain way than it is their religion.  Religion is a deliberately formed set of rules that people follow in response to what they think are spiritual truths or messages.

I would argue that anyone who believes in the Bible is NOT necessarily a Christian.  Christians are people who try to emulate Jesus Christ.  Most people who read the Bible don't come anywhere close to behaving like Jesus Christ, thus they are not Christian (or Christ-like).


--------------------
I am not a cannabis grower.  I find the cannabis growers to be the most open to experimenting and sharing out of all of the different botany groups I enjoy.  I frequently use the suggestions that I find to apply to own organic gardening and food production.


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InvisibleCrayolaHalls
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Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: SmOakland]
    #486604 - 10/10/10 03:27 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SmOakland said:
Quote:

niteowl said:
If you do not go to church, but believe that the bible is the 'truth' and the literal word of god.......

Are you the follower of a religion?

I have had many bible thumppers claim that they are not 'religious' nor do they belong to a 'religion' simply because they don't belong/go to a church.

I say bullshit. If you believe that the bible is the 'Word of God' then your a fucking christian and the follower of a fucking religion.

Opinions?




Why are you talking to such morons?  Anybody who believes the bible is an idiot.




The Bible was assembled by a group of people called the council of Nicea.  Everyone on that council practiced the common Roman forms of Paganism.  The council was formed by Constantine, also a Pagan, in response to the rapid spread of Christian and Judaic beliefs in to Rome.  Constantine was facing a possible civil war between the traditionalists and the new radical "Christ believers".  Instead, he decided to help legitimize Christianity and assemble the original Bible with a heavy emphasis of manipulating most of the stories to fit what was needed by the current culture.

Every Bible-based religion since has came from this original Bible and Church forming by the Romans.  This event also marked a hard line in the separation of Judaism and Christianity, even though Christianity had its roots in Judaism, the Essenes, etc...


--------------------
I am not a cannabis grower.  I find the cannabis growers to be the most open to experimenting and sharing out of all of the different botany groups I enjoy.  I frequently use the suggestions that I find to apply to own organic gardening and food production.


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Offlinewholesheet
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Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: CrayolaHalls]
    #486701 - 10/10/10 04:27 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

I thought i was answering a question... but i didn't realize it was a complicated ?. what does it matter if you r labeled religious.. its just a word.. if your looking for definate answers from people ur not gonna get it.. life is not a math problem... sometimes there is no obvious answer.. but i don't think u gotta go to church to be a christian.. and yeah  i guess if u consider urself a christian then u r part of a religion.. when i say i thank that going to church is the least u can do... maybe i should of said i feel that going to church is the least i can do for him... everyone has different convictions .. that is the reason a question like this is hard to answer.. everyone isn't the same and everyone has a opinion


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OfflineTHEBats
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Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: wholesheet]
    #486713 - 10/10/10 06:34 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

How can everyone have different opinions on one truth?


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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.  :twobooks:


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: wholesheet]
    #486784 - 10/10/10 10:11 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wholesheet said:
I thought i was answering a question...




No you didn't, or you didn't read the OP. You took an opportunity to profess your Christianity like a good lil evangelical.

Quote:

what does it matter if you r labeled religious.. its just a word..




Because that was the whole point of the thread.
To ask a question, and get some opinions on the question.

Not one time did I ask you or anyone else what your religion was.

Quote:

and yeah  i guess if u consider urself a christian then u r part of a religion..




See you can answer the question.

The whole issue arose over a discussion my father and I were having over how religion poisons everything. Time interviewed Christopher Hitchens and we were discussing the interview.


In his latest book, “God Is Not Great,” Christopher Hitchens makes the case against religion and for “free inquiry and open-mindedness.”  Hitchens, of course, is a contributing editor to Vanity Fair, a visiting professor of liberal studies at the New School, and author of many books.  He spoke recently with Truthdig’s Jon Wiener.


Jon Wiener:  You show in your book how many horrible things men have done because of religion. In Belfast, Beirut, Bombay, Belgrade and Baghdad, men kill other men, and say God told them to do it.  But why blame God for the bad things that men do?


Christopher Hitchens: I don’t blame God.  I blame religion.  I don’t believe there is such a thing as God. Religion makes people do wicked things they wouldn’t ordinarily do. It doesn’t make them behave better—it makes them behave worse.  You couldn’t get people to hack away at the genitals of their newborn children if they didn’t think there was a religious obligation to do so. The licenses for genocide, slavery, racism, are all right there in the holy text.


Wiener: Yes, the Old Testament is full of these horrors.  But it also contains the Ten Commandments, prohibiting killing, stealing, adultery, and lying—isn’t this a good thing?


Hitchens:  No.  it’s not.  Because these are prefaced by a series of injunctions to fear a permanent, unalterable dictatorship.  The first three commandments say “just realize who’s boss.”  Let’s assume the story of Moses is true, even though archaeologists have utterly discredited it.  Do our Jewish ancestors have to put up with the insult from us at this late stage that, until they got to Sinai, they thought murder and theft and perjury were OK?  Of course not.  There would have been no such people if they thought that.  There has never been a society or civilization that did warrant those things. And you don’t need divine urging to see that they’re wrong yourself.


Wiener: There’s one other commandment, the tenth—thou shalt not covet.

Hitchens: That is a particularly horrible crime of dictatorship, namely the crime of thought.  It says you can’t even think about this.  To say you’re not allowed to steal your neighbor’s possessions—including his wife—that’s one thing.  But to say you’re not allowed to envy your neighbor is absurd.  It’s impossible.  And the spirit of envy can lead to ambition and innovation and initiative.  I would say that’s an immoral commandment.

Wiener: Let’s talk about Islam.  You point out that the 9/11 terrorists said Allah wanted them to fly planes into buildings.  But there are something like a billion Muslims in the world today, and only 19 of them flew planes into the World Trade Center.  Why hold all of Islam responsible for the acts of those 19?


Hitchens:  I don’t.  Islam in fact has one advantage over Christianity—it doesn’t have a papacy.  There is no center that can say “we condemn this” or “we support this,” the way the church supported Franco Spain and said prayers in Germany on Hitler’s birthday by order of the Vatican.  But the centers of legislation and authority in the Islamic world, such as Al-Azhar University in Cairo, have a lot of difficulty condemning suicide bombing.  In fact they’ve never got around to doing it.  They can’t seem to condemn even the blowing up of other Muslims—in Iraq, for instance, where they are blowing up each other’s children and each other’s holy places. No words seem to come from either Sunni or Shiite religious authorities there or elsewhere in the world saying “this is wrong.”  That’s because they don’t really think it is.  If it’s done for their cause, they surreptitiously sympathize with it, and you can detect that surreptitious sympathy if you read any of the statements from the Muslim authorities.  That’s a grave crisis for Islam—and for us, too.


Wiener: Are you saying Islam is worse than other religions?  It seems to me your position has to be that all religions are equally bad.


Hitchens: The position I take in the book is, of course, that all religion is equally stupid and an expression of contempt for reason and an exaltation of the idea of faith, of believing things without evidence.  But that doesn’t mean I think a Quaker and a Bin Laden are exactly the same.  They all have individual disadvantages.  I would say that, with Catholicism, the mad insistence on celibacy is peculiarly deforming.  With Islam, the problem is that it claims to be the last and final revelation.  All that’s required now is that everybody realize the truth of this book.  That’s extremely dangerous preaching, in my opinion

Wiener: Don’t Christian fundamentalists say pretty much the same thing?


Hitchens: Yes they do.  But I think there is a real problem with Islam of intolerance in that way—it forbids itself to have a reformation.  That’s fanatical and actually murderous right now.


Wiener: Is the problem you have been describing religion per se, or is it the monotheistic religions of the West: Judaism, Christianity, Islam?  Are Eastern religions different and better?  Especially Buddhism, with its compassion for all living things; especially Tibetan Buddhism, with its impressive leader, the Dalai Lama.


Hitchens: The Dalai Lama claims to be a hereditary god and a hereditary king.  I don’t think any decent person can assent to that proposition. You should take a look at what Tibet was like when it was run by the lamas.  Buddhism has some of the same problems as Western religion.  Zen was the official ideology of Hirohito’s fascism that was used to conquer and reduce the rest of Asia to subservience.  The current dictatorship in Burma is officially Buddhist.  The Buddhist forces in Sri Lanka are the ones who began the horrific civil war there with their pogroms against the Tamils in the 1950s and 1960s.  Lon Nol’s army in Cambodia was officially Buddhist.


Wiener: Let’s talk about the U.S.  Polls show that 94 per cent of Americans believe in God, and 89 per cent believe in heaven; of those, three-fourths think they will go to heaven, but only 2 per cent think they will go to hell.  This seems laughable, but what’s the harm in people believing they will go to heaven after they die—and see their mothers there?


Hitchens: All you have to do is promise them 72 virgins, and they’ll kill to get there. That’s what’s wrong with it, along with the fact that it’s a solipsistic delusion.  And the spreading of delusion in the end isn’t a good thing, because credulous and deluded people are easy to exploit.  People arise who are aware of that fact.

If belief in heaven was private, like the tooth fairy, I’d say fine.  But tooth fairy supporters don’t come around to your house and try to convert you.  They don’t try to teach your children stultifying pseudo-science in school.  They don’t try to prevent access to contraception.  The religious won’t leave us alone.  These are not just private delusions, they’re ones they want to inflict on other people.


Wiener: Of course, you are right that we have Pat Robertson and, until recently, Jerry Falwell, saying horrible things in the name of religion. Both welcomed 9/11 as payback for America’s tolerance of homosexuality and abortion.  But we have also had Martin Luther King and Daniel Berrigan and William Sloane Coffin.  Why not conclude that religion can lead people to do good things as well as bad?


Hitchens: Let me start with a question: Can you name a moral action taken, or a moral statement made, by a believer that could not have been made by an atheist?  I don’t think so.  I’ll take your case at its strongest—that would be Dr. King. Fortunately for us, he wasn’t really a Christian, because if he had followed the preachments in Exodus about the long march to freedom, he would have invoked the right that the Bible gives to take the land of others, to enslave other tribes, to kill their members, to rape their women, and to destroy them down to their uttermost child.  Fortunately for us, he didn’t take that route.

The people who actually organized the March on Washington, Bayard Rustin and A. Phillip Randolph, were both secularists and socialists.  The whole case for the emancipation of black America had already been made perfectly well by secularists. I don’t particularly object to the tactic of quoting the Bible against the white Christian institutions that maintained at first slavery and then segregation.  But there’s no authority in the Bible for civil rights—none whatever.  There is authority for slavery and segregation.

The widespread view among white liberals that black people in some way prefer to be led by preachers is a condescending one.  It leaves out heroes of the movement like Rustin and Randolph, and has licensed the assumption that people like Jesse Jackson and, much worse, a complete charlatan and thug like Al Sharpton, are somehow OK because they’ve got the word “Reverend” in front of their names.  That’s done enormous damage, not just to black people, but to the country in general.  It’s the Falwell equivalent.


Wiener: What about practical politics for progressives: since almost all Americans believe in God, for progressives to attack, ridicule and dismiss religion as you do is political suicide that will ensure religious Republican domination forever.  Instead, we must argue that God is not on their side, and we must respect the fact that people belong to different communities of belief.


Hitchens: If you want to argue that God is not on their side, you can’t argue “that’s because he’s on my side”—you have to argue there is no such person. Marxism begins by arguing that people have to emancipate their minds. The beginning of that emancipation is outgrowing of religion.  If religion were true, there would be no need for politics; you’d only need to have faith.


Wiener: I know you’ve often been told that everybody has faith in something—for most Americans, it’s Jesus; for you, it’s reason and science.


Hitchens: That’s not faith, by definition.  You can’t have faith in reason.  It’s not a dogma.  It’s a conviction that this is the only way that discovery and progress can be made.


Wiener: The intelligent person’s argument for religion is that religion and rationality don’t compete—they deal with different parts of life.  Religion answers questions that science doesn’t: Why do the innocent suffer? What is the meaning of life?  What happens when we die?


Hitchens: I wish it was true.  But, in fact, religion doesn’t keep its part of the bargain here.  It incessantly seeks to limit first discoveries and innovation in science and then their application.  Galileo, of course, but more recently discoveries about the possibilities of limiting the size of your family.  Really, they don’t want us to reconsider our place in the universe, because if we face the fact that we live on a tiny speck in an immense universe, it’s going to be difficult to convince people it was all created with that tiny speck in mind.  It’s not possible to believe that nonsense if you have any interest in science.


Wiener: The final killer argument of your critics is that Hitler and Stalin were not religious.  The worst crimes of the 20th century did not have a religious basis.  They came from political ideology.


Hitchens: That’s easy. Hitler never abandoned Christianity and recommends Catholicism quite highly in “Mein Kampf.”  Fascism, as distinct from National Socialism, was in effect a Catholic movement.


Wiener: What about Stalin?  He wasn’t religious.


Hitchens: Stalin—easier still.  For hundreds of years, millions of Russians had been told the head of state should be a man close to God, the czar, who was head of the Russian Orthodox Church as well as absolute despot.  If you’re Stalin, you shouldn’t be in the dictatorship business if you can’t exploit the pool of servility and docility that’s ready-made for you.  The task of atheists is to raise people above that level of servility and credulity.  No society has gone the way of gulags or concentration camps by following the path of Spinoza and Einstein and Jefferson and Thomas Paine.


I said that all religious people are at fault for the worlds issues. He agreed that religion was bad and that those in power use religion as a tool to get what they want. But he wasn't a follower of a religion.

:what:

This came from a bible thumping Jesus loving fundamental fucking christian.

'I don't belong to a religion'

:dudewtf:

I was like...
Ok he couldn't get away from the glaring fact that religion is not a force for good. So he tried to distance himself from 'religion'
:whatever:

Then I heard another 'christian' say that they were not a part of religion because they didn't go to church.

I was like

:awewtf:

again

So I made this post to get some feed back on the current definition of religion.


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-


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InvisibleGod
Yahweh

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: THEBats]
    #486786 - 10/10/10 10:16 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

THEBats said:
How can everyone have different opinions on one truth?



Opinions are views formed that are not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.  You can believe that magnets are fuckin' miracles and no one knows how they work, and that's your opinion.  You're still wrong, though.


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InvisibleMagashM
The Feminizer
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,497
Re: Are you the follower of a religion......if.... [Re: God]
    #486793 - 10/10/10 10:32 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Fast forward about 6:50 minutes.




--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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