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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Advanced Nutrients
    #316110 - 11/15/09 09:08 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

I just saw a video on GrowersUnderground where Big Mike challenges any of his nutrient producing competitors to a grow off, claiming that if any of their nutrient lines can grow bigger, more potent marijuana than his advanced nutrient line that he will personally write them a check for $1 Million.

This seems like a pretty fucking serious wager to make if he isn't 100% confident that his nutrients will kick their ass.... does anyone have any experience with AN lines and want to back up this claim? I've had amazing results with Lucas Formula, but it's so simple that I can't help but feel like I'm leaving some slight holes in the nutrient requirements for my plants, and AN being specifically targeted and designed for marijuana horticulture has got me itching to try it out.


thoughts?


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OfflineTomCollins


Registered: 10/06/09
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #316201 - 11/15/09 10:33 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Yeah, I use Big Bud as a supplementary nute. There's a 100% satisfaction guarentee on the thing that says "if your not satisfied, send us whatever is left in the bottle for a full refund." So, I would imagine these guys are super confident.

I think my plants are monsters and it hasn't even been a month yet - I think that's due to a combination of things but, it looks like it's only helping. :-P

I can't really comment too much on it, because I've never grown without it.

I've been curious to try out some of their other stuff, but I think they really market themselves wrong.

These guys in Amsterdam who I buy my spore prints from recommended it to me when I bought my seeds.


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andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


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InvisibleDr. Penguin
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #316204 - 11/15/09 10:37 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

From what I've read, AN is the only company specifically doing research and targeting cannabis. A fertilizer tailor made for a species will (hopefully) always be better than its generic counterpart.

AN is way overpriced when you consider all the parts of their line. That said, I will never go back... I've come to relish the flexibility of a three(-ten) part system especially when I am dealing with different stages of growth in my plants and having different strains with various specific needs.

I would say, if you have the money, go for it but it would definitely not be my pick for cost effectiveness.


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OfflineTomCollins


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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #316213 - 11/15/09 10:41 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Now that I've thought about it a little more, I rekon this is a huge publicity stunt. I don't think companies like GH or AHOH are going to participate in something like this, only because it would really cast them in a very different light.


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andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: TomCollins]
    #316238 - 11/15/09 11:00 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

You know they claim to be specific for a certain plant but why then are the numbers on their 3 part exactly the same as GH's original 3 part?

Now how does Mike wanna do his test? Let the competitors use his stuff at their labs or he uses theirs at his? Maybe he's gonna send it to the independent counsel of cannabis research and development.

sounds to me like he made a offer he knew nobody would take as a publicity stunt. Yeah I've tested their line and it's good stuff but better? Nah, I found that even their connoisseur wasn't the Popeye's spinach it pretends to be.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: Magash]
    #316418 - 11/16/09 10:41 AM (7 years, 19 days ago)

his challenge was that both competitors get a clone so everyone has the same genetics, go to his lab in bulgaria, and then build a room from the ground up, lights, vent, etc.


Honestly though, I'm far more interested in real information, anyone can make a challenge like that for publicity.

So you didn't think Connoiseur was worth it? that's the one I'm mainly curious about because they seem to talk like it's the shit of the stable....


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #316454 - 11/16/09 12:29 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

My only AN experiences are with Big Blood and Bud Blood, which are the cat's meow, and Overdrive, which the verdict is still out on. Their marketing is cheesy at best and annoying at worst, but they do seem to make excellent products.


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InvisibleDr. Penguin
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: TomCollins]
    #316476 - 11/16/09 02:05 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

After doing a bit of research on the differences in the two brands and the differences in composition it turns out that they are rather similar in some regards.

Advanced Nutrients Micro
Quote:

Ingredients: Calcium Nitrate, Cobalt Nitrate, Copper Nitrate, Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Borate, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Casbonate, Iron EDTA, Iron DPTA, Iron EDDHA, Iron Proteinate, Manganese EDTA, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc EDTA, Zinc Proteinate, Copper EDTA, Copper Proteinate, Boron EDTA, Boron Proteinate, Molybdenum EDTA, Molybdenum Proteinate, Colbalt EDTA, Colbalt Proteinate.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Nitrogen (N) ....................................... 5.30%
(4.90% Nitrate Nitrogen)
(0.40% Organic Nitrogen)
Soluble Potash (K2O) ....................... 1.40%
Calcium (Ca) ..................................... 5.40%
(5.40% Water Soluble Calcium)
Zinc (Zn) ......................................... 0.008%
(0.008% Chelated Copper)
Manganese (Mn) ............................. 0.028%
(0.028% Chelated Manganese)
Boron (B) ........................................ 0.012%
(0.012% Water Soluble Boron)
Iron (Fe) ........................................... 0.08%
(0.08% Chelated Iron)
Molybdenum (Mo) ......................... 0.0006%
(0.0006% Water Soluble Molybdenum)




GH FloraMicro
Quote:

Ingredients:ammonium molybdate, calcium nitrate, cobalt nitrate, copper nitrate, potassium chelate, zinc chelate, potassium borate, potassium sulfate, calcium carbonate, manganese EDTA, iron EDDHA, iron
DTPA.

Total Nitrogen: 5% 
Avail. Phosphate:    Sol. Potash: 1%
Calcium: 5%
Magnesium: 
Sulfur: 
Boron: 0.01%
Chlorine: 
Cobalt: 0.0005%
Copper: 0.01%
Iron: 0.1%
Manganese: 0.05%
Molybdenum: 0.0008%
Sodium: 
Zinc: 0.015%





Both of their total percentages for nutrient amounts are almost identical which confirms what Magash said about their product not being tailor made like we are lead to believe. But aside from that, the above information does elucidate one important fact, the ingredients for both of these products are quite different.  While GH and AN both use similar base chemicals (ie: calcium nitrate, cobalt nitrate, copper nitrate), AN also includes two other classes of chemical, proteinates (mineral bound to a protein compound) and chelates (formed by reaction of micro-nutrients with chemicals such as EDTA, and EDDHA), both of which increase absorption rate[1] of nutrient ions.



Along with that, I also looked into third party analysis of both products, found here:
AN Micro
Quote:

http://www.oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_metal/detail.lasso?-op=eq&product_id=6624



GH FloraMicro
Quote:

http://www.oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_metal/detail.lasso?-op=eq&product_id=816




The only noteworthy information here may be the levels of heavy metal in solution which is low in in both cases but slightly lower in the case of AN.


Quote:

[1] Fe Chelates for Remediation of Fe Chlorosis in Strategy I Plants, Juan J. Lucena (2003), Journal of Plant Nutrition 26, 1969 - 1984




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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #316477 - 11/16/09 02:12 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

so it's not the percentages that differ in this case, it's the source of nutritive cations that provides the edge. that's pretty interesting to me. I wonder if having a small colony of microbiota(even in hydro applications) would remediate that difference and give GH equal uptake-ability. I always notice some green trich colonies forming on my hempy buckets, so I wonder if switching over would actually give me any noticeable effects.
I'm still really curious to try it out... seems like a pretty good product, and with a recirculating hydro system you wouldn't really use so many nutrients as to make the price difference prohibitive.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #316479 - 11/16/09 02:23 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

oh and I was also curious about the pH issue. One of the main reasons I love GH so much is that I never have to adjust the pH. after the water comes out of my tap (at only 65ppm, I love colorado) and I add all my nutes it consistently measures 5.8pH. it's the most wonderful and easy thing ever, I barely even check the pH anymore. Does AN balance their nutes this well, or would I have to go back to buffering and measuring?


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #317673 - 11/18/09 10:47 AM (7 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Dr. Penguin said:
From what I've read, AN is the only company specifically doing research and targeting cannabis. A fertilizer tailor made for a species will (hopefully) always be better than its generic counterpart.





The only company? Generic counterparts?


Canna and Dutchmaster are known to research cannabis. They might not do it as openly as Advanced Nutrients though.

ALSO to the OP... I've used Advanced Nutrients with all the bells and whistles because my hydroponics store that's owned by a family friend gives me an insane discount. Anyways I ran literally everything they recommended with their connoisseur line up and found similar results to a simple 2 part formula + bloom booster. Using dozens of overpriced nutrients doesn't work miracles.


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OfflineAzyle00
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: captain.koons]
    #317683 - 11/18/09 11:24 AM (7 years, 17 days ago)

All these Nutes are for hydro I assume?


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: Azyle00]
    #317684 - 11/18/09 11:41 AM (7 years, 17 days ago)

You could use them in soilless medium and perhaps even in soil but they are designed for a hydroponics situation.

If growing in soil I'd just use compost tea.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: captain.koons]
    #317723 - 11/18/09 01:14 PM (7 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

captain.koons said:
Quote:

Dr. Penguin said:
From what I've read, AN is the only company specifically doing research and targeting cannabis. A fertilizer tailor made for a species will (hopefully) always be better than its generic counterpart.





The only company? Generic counterparts?


Canna and Dutchmaster are known to research cannabis. They might not do it as openly as Advanced Nutrients though.

ALSO to the OP... I've used Advanced Nutrients with all the bells and whistles because my hydroponics store that's owned by a family friend gives me an insane discount. Anyways I ran literally everything they recommended with their connoisseur line up and found similar results to a simple 2 part formula + bloom booster. Using dozens of overpriced nutrients doesn't work miracles.




I guess with a name like canna it makes sense that they would have a specific interest in cannabis :lol:

since I know you're a botany student and a student of the sciences like myself I trust your experimental skills on that comparison. What nutes do you use nowadays after all that comparing?


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OfflineAzyle00
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #317727 - 11/18/09 01:19 PM (7 years, 17 days ago)

CaptnKoons is a botanist student hmm?  OR the Doc?  Are you interested in doing experiments and research on the psychoactive properties of Coleus?  Been doing some heavy research about this plant and seems that, yes there is "something" in Coleus that gets you tripping, the problem is lack of knowledge and research about the plant/substance and specifically is the extraction of said compound or substance.

Drying and burning it renders it ineffective as a starter and some theories seem to be that is is alcohol based, which would explain why it vanishes if burned...I think.

Sorry for derailing this thread about this, but desperate for a scientist to get involved in unlocking this mystery.


--------------------
"I never post unless high.  Well that does explain a lot then."

"The best part about going to sleep each night is knowing that my plants will have grown more when I wake up in the morning."

"I smoked it then I became so tired that my eyes shut down automatically without my consent" - My Chinese GF, Oct 23, 2009 :smile:

Starting your first GROW, things you should ask/answer before you do

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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #317876 - 11/18/09 04:58 PM (7 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
Quote:

captain.koons said:
Quote:

Dr. Penguin said:
From what I've read, AN is the only company specifically doing research and targeting cannabis. A fertilizer tailor made for a species will (hopefully) always be better than its generic counterpart.





The only company? Generic counterparts?


Canna and Dutchmaster are known to research cannabis. They might not do it as openly as Advanced Nutrients though.

ALSO to the OP... I've used Advanced Nutrients with all the bells and whistles because my hydroponics store that's owned by a family friend gives me an insane discount. Anyways I ran literally everything they recommended with their connoisseur line up and found similar results to a simple 2 part formula + bloom booster. Using dozens of overpriced nutrients doesn't work miracles.




I guess with a name like canna it makes sense that they would have a specific interest in cannabis :lol:

since I know you're a botany student and a student of the sciences like myself I trust your experimental skills on that comparison. What nutes do you use nowadays after all that comparing?




AN definitely aren't shit nutrients. In theory a broad range of products would be exceptional and give you optimal control over plants. However in practice an over priced bottle of microbes (Tarantula/piranha) that promises the world really isn't going to do much if anything at all.

I find General Hydroponics to offer what I want. I plan to use Dutchmaster also. Botanicare offers solid nutrients if you're looking for organic. Canna I like because of the ease, when I used Canna they had a 4 part system and no separate grow and bloom. I generally use GH Bloom and Micro along with a Bloom Booster(koolbloom) and Silica and Cal/Mag. I plan to try out DM's Goldline and also their foliar products with DM nutrients and GH nutrients.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: Azyle00]
    #317877 - 11/18/09 04:59 PM (7 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Azyle00 said:
CaptnKoons is a botanist student hmm?  OR the Doc?  Are you interested in doing experiments and research on the psychoactive properties of Coleus?  Been doing some heavy research about this plant and seems that, yes there is "something" in Coleus that gets you tripping, the problem is lack of knowledge and research about the plant/substance and specifically is the extraction of said compound or substance.

Drying and burning it renders it ineffective as a starter and some theories seem to be that is is alcohol based, which would explain why it vanishes if burned...I think.

Sorry for derailing this thread about this, but desperate for a scientist to get involved in unlocking this mystery.




I study the genus Coleus but only for it's anatomy/physiology.


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: captain.koons]
    #318081 - 11/18/09 09:38 PM (7 years, 17 days ago)

koons failed botany i heard.  i mean, look at his girl in his sig/avatar.  Anyway, I've done two grows now and used GH Floranova series for both.  I used a few supplements (gravity on the second grow) but nothing too much.  What's the advantage of using the three part system rather than the one?  Like HB said, it adjusts the water for ya and i really like that.  I'm not sure if he was referring to the fn series though.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #318091 - 11/18/09 09:47 PM (7 years, 17 days ago)

I just use the regular flora series. not sure what the difference is in total composition other than they shrunk it down to 2 bottles instead of 3.

maybe I'll go out and pick up either some koolbloom or some big bud tomorrow.

anyone have a preference between the two? will a bloom booster really give that noticeable effects over just plain 'ol nutes?


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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: Advanced Nutrients [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #318105 - 11/18/09 10:11 PM (7 years, 17 days ago)

I'm all for the Koolblooms both liquid and dry.

Tho I only have experience with the liquid.

I'm currently use the dry for the first time and truly like what I'm seeing.

I grew my first few grow with just the floranova bloom and yes I see a large difference using the extra parts, and I mean big difference.

In yeilds, resin, and finishing time.:yesnod:

As I said my current grow is my first time with the dry koolbloom but at this point I see a large increase in the hair growth already as well as a denser buds, but yet it is still to early to know the facts on it.


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