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Offlinekrypto2000

Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 87
Loc: Slightly off the Ground
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Starting a grow
    #126871 - 09/30/08 10:04 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Hey guys, some of you may recognize me from the shroomery, just joined the growery today for the following reason (post copied from the shroomery):

So I'm moving into my apartment tomorrow and soon after I'm going to be starting my first marijuana grow. I've ordered some white widow and some neville's haze x jack herer. I'm going to build a grow box and I haven't quite figured on the size yet, enough space to give me enough for me and a few friends and I guess I'll just keep it going if I need to or just stock up and grow once or twice a year, we'll see how it goes.

So I was thinking of a 4x3x4 grow space and I was planning to put 8 plants in there. I was going to get a 400w hps and, perhaps a 400w mh conversion bulb or a universal ballast, whatever is cheapest (looks like the former probably).

So, does anyone have a recommendation for a light? It doesn't have to be great, I'm looking for a decent hps/mh at a good price. Also any recommendations for a carbon filter? Again, price is key here. And lastly, how does my setup sound? Should that be good, more space, more lights, etc? I'm going to be growing in soil btw. If there's not enough light, or that's too many plants I'll probably cut down the growspace/number of plants instead of getting a bigger light. Any idea about how much I could yield from this btw?

Upon doing further research I'm now leaning towards a digital ballast because it looks like it's better overall and I'd make up for the cost in the long run, still kinda up in the air at this point though. I'll wait for more opinions before I decide on anything.


Edited by krypto2000 (09/30/08 10:08 AM)


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OfflineSirius
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Re: Starting a grow [Re: krypto2000]
    #126892 - 09/30/08 12:07 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

The floorspace should work well for eight full-size plants, but I think a 400 watt HPS for that amount of space and that many plants might be a little too less than optimal. A 600 watt HPS would be perfect for that, which is good because a 600 watt HPS is the most energy-efficient lamp of all the different wattages. The amount of money you'd need to invest to go from 400 watts to 600 is pretty slim, so it would really pay off to just make the switch up.

However, a space that is only four feet tall really just isn't going to work for you, especially if you're using HID lighting. The size of the pots is going to be at least six inches tall I would imagine, you're going to need about a foot of space in between the lamp and the canopy of your plants, and then that only allows two feet of space for your plants, which is probably at least two feet short, and might still be a little too short if you're growing more sativa-dominant plants (like I would imagine Neville's Haze x Jack Herer would be... sounds like a hell of a cross by the way, which breeder has that?).

Also, you're going to need to keep in concern of heat that comes with an HPS. If you did jump up to a 600 watt from a 400 watt, there would be more heat to deal with. I don't know about 400 watt lamps, but I'm sure they produce a good amount on their own anyways. Is it going to be possible to air condition the grow room, or the area you'll be pulling air into the grow room from?

Digital ballasts are nice from what I hear, although the benefits they list are apparently pretty exaggerated. At the same time, regular ballasts really don't have any problems.


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Offlinekrypto2000

Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 87
Loc: Slightly off the Ground
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Starting a grow [Re: Sirius]
    #126924 - 09/30/08 12:48 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I can move up to a 600w if you don't think the 400w would be adequate. I'd rather have too much light than not enough so, that's not a problem.

I ordered the seeds from drchronic, the breeder is femaleseeds.nl.

The growbox will be in my living room so I can make it as tall as the ceiling allows (7-8ft? I dunno), so that's not a problem either I don't think. I was probably going to grow the white widow first as that'll be easier for my first grow and probably is faster to harvest than the other since it's a strong sativa dominant. In regards to heat, like I said, it's in the living room so that will be air conditioned. I was going to have a few fans running to circulate the air and to push it through the carbon filter. I was thinking of building a separate enclosure for the light on top of the growbox so that the hot air doesn't get sucked back into the box, that should take care of the heat I would think. I was thinking of sealing it with a piece of plexi glass, any flaws with that plan? I was planning to have an inlet at the bottom and then an outlet near the top with a fan or 2 pushing the air out. After the outlet it would go through the light (not sure how yet, I haven't gotten a light in hand to figure that one out) and then through the carbon filter where it will exit the box. Would it matter if the carbon filter is before or after the light? Not sure if it makes a difference but I thought it might collect odor better from warm air than cool, but that's just a guess.

edit: If the light is kept seperate then I could safely have the plants closer to the light correct? Would 6 feet be adequate for this? Maybe 6.5 - 7 counting the light I guess. I'll try and aim for 6 feet of growing room in the box and then add w/e is needed for the light. I'm thinking of maybe even doing a sea of green for my first grow so I can cut down on the harvest time. Then I'll have some bud to hold me over while waiting for the nevilles haze x jack herer to come in.


Edited by krypto2000 (09/30/08 12:52 PM)


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OfflineSirius
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Re: Starting a grow [Re: krypto2000]
    #126978 - 09/30/08 02:07 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
I can move up to a 600w if you don't think the 400w would be adequate. I'd rather have too much light than not enough so, that's not a problem.




Yeah man, as long as you have a way of managing heat concerns, the 600 watt HPS is definitely the way to go. :pimp3:

Quote:


I ordered the seeds from drchronic, the breeder is femaleseeds.nl.




When did you order these seeds? Female Seeds isn't even listed on Dr. Chronic anymore... I'm more than curious about this. :wink:

Quote:


I was thinking of building a separate enclosure for the light on top of the growbox so that the hot air doesn't get sucked back into the box, that should take care of the heat I would think. I was thinking of sealing it with a piece of plexi glass, any flaws with that plan?




I'm not really sure that would work since I believe plexiglass isn't perfectly transparent like regular glass is. A more common way to go is to get an air-cooled reflector, something that the lamp stays inside which has a way to hook ducting up on both ends, to pull air away from the lamp to help cool it. A cool-tube is probably the cheapest way to go with that, and I've seen people make their own DIY cool-tubes as well.

Quote:


Would it matter if the carbon filter is before or after the light? Not sure if it makes a difference but I thought it might collect odor better from warm air than cool, but that's just a guess.




I'm not sure about the effectiveness of the carbon with different temperatures of air, but I know it should work fine to pull air from the room, through the light, and then out through the carbon filter.

Quote:


edit: If the light is kept seperate then I could safely have the plants closer to the light correct? Would 6 feet be adequate for this? Maybe 6.5 - 7 counting the light I guess. I'll try and aim for 6 feet of growing room in the box and then add w/e is needed for the light. I'm thinking of maybe even doing a sea of green for my first grow so I can cut down on the harvest time. Then I'll have some bud to hold me over while waiting for the nevilles haze x jack herer to come in. 




Yeah, a combination of conditioning the air and using an air-cooled reflector will make it so that you can keep the lamp closer to the plants, which is exactly what you want to accomplish, because the plants will receive exponentially more lumens the closer they are to the light source (as long as they don't get too close and light bleaching occurs). Since your room is like eight feet tall, you aren't going to need to worry about height. I wouldn't recommend doing a sea of green from seed - seeds are spendy and the sog is really intended for running clones. One thing you could do, of course, is grow the plants from seed until they are big enough to supply many clones for a sog, and keep these mothers in a separate area in vegetative state to be able to keep providing more clones. :wink:


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Starting a grow [Re: krypto2000]
    #126985 - 09/30/08 02:25 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Hell I'd even go higher. The space here is 4x8 and it used 2-1000watt lights.


Now they have a new light out a 750watt light. That sounds right for a space of 4x3. You may wanna look into one of the grow tents out cause they have em in sizes like that. That way if your only gonna grow once or twice a year the thing can be packed away on a shelf. :flyhigh:


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Offlinekrypto2000

Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 87
Loc: Slightly off the Ground
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Starting a grow [Re: Sirius]
    #126990 - 09/30/08 02:28 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Well I'll have (I think) 10 white widow seeds. I figured I'd do a 'sea of green' as in, just a bunch of small plants, not so much a 'sea' per se. Then I'll harvest those and take clones to start my next batch with. In this batch (the 2nd one) I'll have a mix of white widow and I'll probably start some of the nevilles haze x jack herer, unless there's a problem with doing this. The only thing I see posing a problem here would be that the nhxjh would be starting kinda late, and it probably takes longer to grow since it's a sativa anyways. So I don't know if I could easily mix the 2 without having a seperate veg room, which maybe at that point I might just setup a temporary one anyways or something.

Anyways, any problem with growing 10 seeds, flowering them early and cloning from those around harvest time to start a new batch?

btw, here's the link for the nevilles haze x jack herer. They don't list female seeds as one of their vendors, but they still carry some.

edit: ^^^ that looks beautiful man  :bow2:  :vaped: . How many plants is that and what strain?

I don't want to get much higher than 400w (now 600 heh) because that's probably mainly going to be what my electricity bill is covering. Otherwise the only thing I'll have running is my PC a few lights and heating/air. I don't have a lot of money and I'm not doing this to sell so excess pot isn't too useful to me, though I'm not sure if 8 plants will even provide 'enough' since I don't really know what I'll get from it. When I don't have to pay for pot I might end up smoking more too, who knows.

edit2: if I were to upgrade from 600w, I'd think I might go with 2 400w, or 2 600w, then I could have a MH and a HPS at the same time, wouldn't that be better?


Edited by krypto2000 (09/30/08 02:34 PM)


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Starting a grow [Re: krypto2000]
    #127003 - 09/30/08 03:02 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anyways, any problem with growing 10 seeds, flowering them early and cloning from those around harvest time to start a new batch?





Well yes and no. When you take clones from flowering plants the clones have to revert and it takes fucking weeks. To take clones from vegging plants is much better if possiable.



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Offlinekrypto2000

Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 87
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Re: Starting a grow [Re: Magash]
    #127010 - 09/30/08 03:25 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Well that might actually help me. If they will be delayed for a few weeks then that will give my nh x jh time to catch up. That might work out in my favor  :shrug:.

My options would be cloning from flowers, not growing anymore white widow, or ordering more seeds. Provided that my previous harvest was enough I can't see being in any rush for my 2nd batch to come through (other than curiosity to try my neville hybrid  :jah:)


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InvisibleYasi
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Re: Starting a grow [Re: krypto2000]
    #127027 - 09/30/08 05:14 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Carbon filter tek

This could save you some cash.


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OfflineAnnom
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Re: Starting a grow [Re: krypto2000]
    #127030 - 09/30/08 05:18 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Using a cooltube is probably the easiest way to cool your HPS. Your have to be able to change the height of the lamp, so a closed space may not be the best option.

If you don't need to move your plants, you should consider growing in one large container, something like this:

You fill that with soil. The drainage tubes are used for watering. It's an easy to make, works quick and gives the roots a lot of space. The same can be done with container, but it's something to consider.

What kind of fans do you plan to use? Airflow is very important for heat transport. What's your budget for the whole thing?


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Offlinekrypto2000

Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 87
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Re: Starting a grow [Re: Annom]
    #127051 - 09/30/08 05:59 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Annom said:
Using a cooltube is probably the easiest way to cool your HPS. Your have to be able to change the height of the lamp, so a closed space may not be the best option.

If you don't need to move your plants, you should consider growing in one large container, something like this:

You fill that with soil. The drainage tubes are used for watering. It's an easy to make, works quick and gives the roots a lot of space. The same can be done with container, but it's something to consider.

What kind of fans do you plan to use? Airflow is very important for heat transport. What's your budget for the whole thing?




Not sure what a cool tube is, but I'll google it. I don't see why I'd have to ever move my plants, and that looks pretty convenient for watering. How much did it cost you to build? I would feel safer knowing I could disassemble everything quickly in case I had to move/get rid of them. Also, I was thinking after I've got this first batch under my belt, maybe a couple others, I'd build a 2nd box for vegging, so that would require me to move them, but maybe this is more worth it. I'd like to hear more about it (edit: cost, how it's made, is it anymore effective, can you fit more plants etc).

I didn't rely have a set budget in mind, I'm moving out of my parents so I don't know how much exactly I'll be spending monthly yet. I won't have a lot of excess revenue (~300 or so a month in spending cash after bills I figure). I'm mostly building this with what I have saved up, which is a couple grand, but I'm not trying to spend all of it. My idea is to build a good, frugal setup without skimping on anything. I'm not super tight on cash, if it's worth it I'm willing to spend more, but I don't have money to waste either.

edit: I thought I replied about the diy carbon filter, but maybe I pasted over it or something. Anyways, won't bother retyping it, but thanks, I'll probably be doing that instead of purchasing one. Any idea on the cost of supplies and is it just as effective as a store bought one? I don't want to risk the neighbors smelling, jail doesn't sound too fun.

edit2: cool tubes look too expensive. I think I'll have to find another route. I'm thinking I could build a closed reflector and put a sheet of glass over it and put some ducting on either side, then it'd be pretty free to move up and down. Anyone have a better idea? I haven't looked into what fans to get yet either, forgot to mention that earlier. Any suggestions for those? Actually I have a couple of these uh.. I dunno, I'd guess 6", maybe 8" fans. They blow at least 100CFM I'm pretty sure, they're pretty noisy though. They probably blow even 200CFM, if that's the case I should be able to turn them down. I was thinking I'd have 2 in the exhaust one on the inlet and one on the outlet. One on the inlet and depending on how much circulation that gives I'd have a couple more bigger fans to circulate air/harden the plants. 


Edited by krypto2000 (09/30/08 06:09 PM)


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OfflineSirius
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Re: Starting a grow [Re: krypto2000]
    #127056 - 09/30/08 06:15 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Well I'll have (I think) 10 white widow seeds. I figured I'd do a 'sea of green' as in, just a bunch of small plants, not so much a 'sea' per se.




With your floor space, you have enough space to grow, like what you were mentioning earlier, eight plants to their full, natural size, so I really don't think you're going to have much to gain from trying to grow them smaller except less yields.

Quote:


So I don't know if I could easily mix the 2 without having a seperate veg room, which maybe at that point I might just setup a temporary one anyways or something.




You're definitely going to want to set up a small area for germinating seeds, which you could definitely also use to keep a mother plant or two so you can keep taking clones from, as well as clones in place of seedlings. A small investment in the right CFL's will easily accomplish this. :wink:

Quote:


Anyways, any problem with growing 10 seeds, flowering them early and cloning from those around harvest time to start a new batch?




Like was mentioned already, it becomes more difficult and takes much longer for clones taken from late flowering to root and start growing again. Keeping a well-trained mother in veg works very well for making sure you'll always have enough clones to put into flower when it works for you.

Quote:


btw, here's the link for the nevilles haze x jack herer. They don't list female seeds as one of their vendors, but they still carry some.




Ahh, definitely. Female Seeds has been knocked out of business for awhile, but they did get those seeds out a month or so ago. I was just curious because they weren't listed anymore. They are actually getting back into the swing of things and should be releasing seeds again in the next couple months. Anyways, always heard the best of their work, and I'm sure they did excellent with that cross. :smile:

Quote:


though I'm not sure if 8 plants will even provide 'enough' since I don't really know what I'll get from it. When I don't have to pay for pot I might end up smoking more too, who knows.




Well, it depends on what your requirements are, but if you grow fairly well (which you will if you do your research and post any questions you have here at the Growery :grin:), you could definitely look forward to at least an ounce per plant. 

Quote:


edit2: if I were to upgrade from 600w, I'd think I might go with 2 400w, or 2 600w, then I could have a MH and a HPS at the same time, wouldn't that be better?




I can't really say for sure because I've never messed around with MH or running a combination at the same time, but generally, MH provides a lot more blue light and HPS provides a lot more red light, and I don't know just how beneficial it would be to have an MH going as well during flowering. I'd recommend going with one ballast for now, and then seeing if you would like to maximize yields by adding more light.

Also, my personal recommendation would be to run half of the amount you decide on as White Widow, and the other half Neville's Haze x Jack Herer.
:toke:


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Offlinekrypto2000

Registered: 09/30/08
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Re: Starting a grow [Re: Sirius]
    #127062 - 09/30/08 06:23 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Anything I'd have to take into consideration going with both? I figured it'd be more difficult, since the jack herer x neville's haze might not be ready to flower as soon as the white widow. I guess it'd just end up smaller though (or the WW bigger). If I did make a small room for germination/mother growing, could I keep the mother just a couple feet tall? Do I just keep cropping it or something?


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Re: Starting a grow [Re: krypto2000]
    #127233 - 10/01/08 12:57 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

A diy cool tube might be right up your alley, I built mine with a 400w hps for about 20$. All you need is a "Bake-A-Round" tube from ebay and a pack of cafe rod brackets from home depot, super easy and super cheap. I'll post up some pictures if you are interested in going this route.

I also built my own carbon scrubber which has performed flawlessly for my last two grows. This was also easy to build. Home depot stocks everything you need except the activated carbon which is the most expensive part... All and all about 30$

For your fan you want to make sure it can handle high static pressure because it will be hooked to a carbon scrubber. The most common types of fans for this purpose are inline centrifugal fans and squirrel cage fans. Inline booster fans and bathroom exhaust fans just can't handle the pressure. If you are extremely tight budget wise, head down to your local HVAC repair place and ask if they have any used furnace blowers (which happen to be squirrel cage fans).

If you are interested in MH/HPS light effects, I have to recommend a digital ballast. I have a galaxy digital ballast and I love it. Price wasn't too bad either, about 120$ shipped.

I think I would start with only one variety. That why you can get one strain dialed in before you introduce another. Also, if anything ever went wrong, you still have seeds on hand to start over. Keeping a mother small is an art form. The easiest way is to restrict light levels, use small pots, prune the roots every other month or so and fertalizer extreamly lightly.

You sound like you're well on your way to a great grow, stay safe!


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Offlinekrypto2000

Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 87
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Re: Starting a grow [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #127345 - 10/01/08 07:41 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I'd look into making my own cool tube, gimme a link for that if you can. I'm assuming I can get inline centrifugal fans at home depot or something? And what d'you mean by 'light effects?' I think most of the lights I've been looking at come with a digital ballast anyways, so most likely I'm going to go with one of those. I'll probably get my lights off of ebay to stay cheap. They're about half the cost as anywhere else I've seen.


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OfflineSirius
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Re: Starting a grow [Re: krypto2000]
    #127358 - 10/01/08 10:23 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Anything I'd have to take into consideration going with both? I figured it'd be more difficult, since the jack herer x neville's haze might not be ready to flower as soon as the white widow. I guess it'd just end up smaller though (or the WW bigger).




Well, I think the only problem you would have is in coordinating the next round of seeds/clones. The veg time would pretty much be the same with both strains, but the difference is in the flowering time. All running both strains at once would mean is that the Haze hybrid is likely going to take a couple more weeks to finish after you've harvested the White Widow (not sure on the flowering time of the WW, but Dr. Chronic has the Haze at at least ten weeks), and you couldn't use the HID light for the vegetative cycle of any new plants while it is still finishing.

I think you'd love yourself for running two strains at once come harvest day, especially since one of the strains is more indica-dominant and the other is more sativa-dominant. Different smokes for different times really.

Quote:


If I did make a small room for germination/mother growing, could I keep the mother just a couple feet tall? Do I just keep cropping it or something?




Yep, it shouldn't be hard to keep a good bonsai mom or two alive and healthy, so you can always take a good number of clones when you need them. Here's a link to a great guide on how to train bonsai mums.


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InvisibleDr. Penguin
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Re: Starting a grow [Re: krypto2000]
    #127361 - 10/01/08 10:28 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Here is the cool tube link:
[url=http://forum.grasscity.com/grow-room-design-setup/184802-diy-best-cool-tube.html]

inline centrifugal fans cannot usually be found at home depot, they are a bit more specialized. Try your local hydro shop, they will carry them. The internet has some pretty good ones for cheap. Remember, if noise is going to be an issue, buy the biggest fan you can afford and buy a speed controller. A bigger fan running slower moves the same amount of air as a smaller fan on high and only makes half the noise.

What I mean by light effects is being able to switch between MH in veg and HPS in flower. The MH is more in the blue spectrum and will produce shorter bushier growth while the HPS is more towards the red spectrum and is better for flowering.

I was just checking out e-bay and they have some great deals on digital ballasts right now. Check out plantlightinghydroponics.com as well. They have brand new digital 600w for 180$ just keep that price for a new one in mind when you shop for it used.


--------------------
* My Cab
* How to Build a Grow Tent
* Fan Speed Control 101
* Easy Butane Extraction

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Offlinekrypto2000

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Re: Starting a grow [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #127371 - 10/01/08 11:11 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

This is what I was thinking of getting or the lights. Any problems with this? Cheapest deal I could find, saves at least $100 off anything else I've found outside of ebay. I think I'm deinitely going to make a cool tube, that looks like a great idea. I plan to grow both strains I'm pretty sure too, can't wait to try different types of pot. I've been smoking seedy brickweed for the most part of the past 2 years.


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Re: Starting a grow [Re: krypto2000]
    #127379 - 10/01/08 11:53 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

The link you posted is broken... I don't know what that one costs but you most likely aren't going to need a reflector especially if you are going to make a cool tube. If you buy only a ballast it might save some dough.

Its great to move away from seedy ditch weed. Home growing is the fucking best!


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OfflineSirius
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Re: Starting a grow [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #127380 - 10/01/08 12:00 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Here is the link, somehow "http.com" ended up in there. :grin:


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