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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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*Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* * 2
    #377442 - 03/03/10 12:10 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

From the time you first get the seed wet until it's placed into position in the medium.  Let the discussion begin.  Tell us your process for germination. 

Seeds are prompted to germinate by:
  • Water
  • Temperature
  • Air (Oxygen)

From the grow bible:

Cannabis seeds need water, heat, and air to germinate.  They do not need extra hormones to germinate.  Seeds sprout without light in a wide range of temperatures.  Properly nurtured seeds germinate in two to seven days, in temperatures from 70-90F.  Temperatures above 90F impair germination.  At germination, the outside protective shell of the seed splits, and a tiny, white sprout(radicle) pops out.  This sprout is the root or taproot.  Cotledon, or seed leaves, emerge from within the shell as they push upward in search of light. 

Soaking seeds in water allows moisture to penetrate the protective seed shell within minutes.  Once a seed receives moisture, there must be a constant stream of moisture to transport nutrients, hormones, and water in order to carry on life processes.  Letting germinated seeds suffer moisture stress now will stunt seedling growth.

Cannabis seeds grow best at 78*.  Low temperatures delay germination.  High temperatures upset seed chemistry causing poor germination.  Once germinated, move seedlings to a slightly cooler growing area, and increase light levels.  Avoid high temperatures and low light levels, which cause lanky growth. 

Quote:

geokills said:
I also do not use paper towels.  When germinating a seed - and this goes for ANY seed I germinate from tomatoes to peppers - I place the seeds in luke-warm water and leave them there for 24 to 36 hours.  I then take a rockwool cube (peat pellets are also a convenient way to insure that your seeds retain access to an appropriately moist/humid microclimate during germination) and place the seed about 1/2" down in the cube/pellet.  Let those rockwool cubes sit in about 1/4" of water inside a container with a perforated top (ie. a mini greenhouse).  Then place that germination greenhouse on top of something warm like an external hard drive or refrigerator.

Here's a picture of one of the greenhouses I have used, with the rockwool cubes:






https://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/194132#194132


Quote:

Sirius said:
Well, to start off with, let's explain how we came to try out this idea. It became time to start another round of seeds, as we had new strains to try out, but two of the strains were known to both be several years old, and the seeds of the other strain were replacements for seeds that had bad germination rates, next to several strains that had excellent rates in the same conditions, from the previous germination. We first started sets of these seeds in paper towel, and then took them to coco (some had split, some hadn't). Only two seeds actually completed germination - the rest either split and grew too slowly and became rotten, or they didn't split at all.

Then we read a thread, over at ICMag, that described a technique that this poster initially experimented with simply for older seeds that were difficult to germinate, but eventually did it with all of his seeds because they germinated faster. The process as he did it was to gently apply pressure with tweezers on the pointed ends of the seeds to actually pop the seed open where it would normally crack open, after he gave it twelve hours to soak. Several posters in the thread then tried it out for themselves, and reported back that it was working excellently.

So, we gave it a try. :smile: First we tried this with the seeds that showed no signs of changes from the first round of attempted germination, and then did it with every new seed that we tried to germinate. The only exception is that my lady popped them with her teeth instead of tweezers, because she had better control on how much pressure to apply (which is barely any, just enough - they pop right away, and you can hear it happen). Within a day, taproots began to emerge from two of the seeds that first showed no signs that they began germinating after about a week in paper towels and then in coco (some of the seeds simply were not viable). It has also been working exceptionally with the seeds we have started germinating since then.

It is beneficial to do this because the energy that the seed would have to exert, especially if they are seeds with thicker hulls, can be expended in taproot growth and getting the cotyledons out of the shell. Of course, if the seeds are fresh and completely viable, then allowing the seed to split itself and emerge would perhaps make it stronger, the same way putting a fan on seedlings will strengthen their stem, but I don't know how consequential allowing it to take care of itself is, and, for our situation, we're dealing with seeds that aren't as viable and need to conserve their energy for everything that we can't help them with. We've confirmed that this definitely works, noting that it isn't just seeds that would have grown out anyways, as seeds that weren't responding in all the usual germination settings then grew out immediately after being popped by us.

Anyways, just passing this along to the Growery :bigweed:, since I haven't seen this technique mentioned yet here. To anyone looking to try this out, I'd suggest trying it out with bag-seed first, because there is definitely potential there for putting too much pressure on them and completely smushing the seeds. The poster we read about this from was using a magnifying glass, in addition to tweezers, to see better what was happening. Teeth work great though! :smirk:

We're definitely happy with this because we scored some rare beans of a strain that hasn't been available for years (Rez's Apollo Mist), and this technique is resulting in growing seedlings when, at first, it looked like we weren't going to get any results. On that note, expect a new grow journal from us soon. :grin:
:toke:



https://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/128408#128408





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Offlinethe man

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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #377460 - 03/03/10 12:22 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

cut 1cc of rockwool, make small holes with toothpic to put seed in
let soak in 1/10 (very weak anyway) fertilizer or hydro with a drop of peroxide per few 100 ml. leave that in teh rockwool for a couple hours
place cubes in shallow dish or bowl whatever with a bit of solution under the cubes but not anywhere near the level of where the seeds are.
cover the bowl with news paper, place in a small box in a warm area.
2 days at most you got what you want.

one would think having fert would delay water entering teh seed and slow sproat. hasnt for me.
cubes make it so you dont touch delicate root hairs
ferts in the cube supply that first bit of growth aswell as plenty of O2

Cheers


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: the man]
    #377488 - 03/03/10 12:55 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Most people would agree that germinating seeds is the easiest part of the cultivation process, so don't be intimidated if you're doing it for the first time. I try to keep things as low-tek as possible in my garden and that goes for germination too:

Pour water in cup
Place seeds in water in cup
Once the tap-root emerges (24-48 hours) plant the seed in soilless medium of your choice, making sure to cover the seed 1/8th~ of an inch with medium.

If you keep your house at 60f or warmer this will work year-round.


--------------------
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Edited by Crusty Ass Bastard (03/03/10 12:59 AM)


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #377492 - 03/03/10 01:01 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

I would like to add that you can put your pre-soaked seed straight into soil as well with out harm.  You don't HAVE to use a soil-less medium.


--------------------
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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #377505 - 03/03/10 01:10 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

206 said:
Most people would agree that germinating seeds is the easiest part of the cultivation process, so don't be intimidated if you're doing it for the first time. I try to keep things as low-tek as possible in my garden and that goes for germination too:

Pour water in cup
Place seeds in water in cup
Once the tap-root emerges (24-48 hours) plant the seed in soilless medium of your choice, making sure to cover the seed 1/8th~ of an inch with medium.

If you keep your house at 60f or warmer this will work year-round.




:thumbup:yeah, i was thinking that myself.  It is pretty easy to do it and get high success rate.  After all I remember learning how to do this (paper towel in an egg carton) in the fifth grade.  not cannabis.  i cant remember what plant.


--------------------





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OfflineBuddy Guy
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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #377569 - 03/03/10 03:29 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

When it comes to germination. I like to take ten of my favorite seeds and I like to soak them in a black tea. A cold black tea. Chill it down. Soak the seeds in it and put it in the refrigerator over night. Botanic acid from the tea will cleans the husk from any bacteria and help soften the husk. Take em out the next day. Rinse them off with water and put them in your germination medium of choice. The transition from the fridge. Out. Is winter to spring. This will help your seeds crack sooner, show tails sooner, and have a much better germination rate.


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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* *DELETED* [Re: Buddy Guy]
    #377573 - 03/03/10 03:41 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by lampshadehelmet

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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: wishcouldeletethis]
    #377624 - 03/03/10 10:08 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lampshadehelmet said:
A word of caution on germinating seeds... having extra rapid rooter plugs sitting around I decided to use them rather than throw them out(used to clone in them switched to aero).

The seeds failed miserably at pushing their way out of the plugs and most coiled up into a ball of tap root and died without ever emerging. The ones that did break surface ended up dying as well due to the root not being able to grow properly.

This was a fresh bag of plugs and I have used them to clone before, but suggest never attempting to germinate in them. I managed to save a few by ripping them out of the plugs and placing in dirt.




I agree, plugs are more difficult to grow seeds in because they get waterlogged so easily. I think coda uses them and I know a couple other experienced growers that do, but for a newbie starting out they should be avoided.


--------------------
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Offline81renaissance
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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #377667 - 03/03/10 12:05 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

In my germination process, I also scuff my seeds with sandpaper to create micro abrasions in the hull.  The seed becomes more apt to absorb water and will often times germinate quicker.  Additionally if the seeds are older (over a year) your germination percentages will be better with this practice.


--------------------
"So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut


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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: 81renaissance]
    #377671 - 03/03/10 12:12 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

I never really thought about using the tea or sandpaper to assist in hydration but it makes perfect sense. Does anyone know if the tea would have any adverse effects if left in past splitting?


--------------------
"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz

"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
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Offline81renaissance
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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: pha3r0]
    #377676 - 03/03/10 12:18 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

I haven't used that practice, so Buddy would be the person to answer your question, but it seems like a bad idea.  I don't even leave my seeds soaking in pure water to split, I give them a 24 hour soak and then its directly into the plugs before they have a chance to open up.


--------------------
"So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut


BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.


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Offlinepha3r0
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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: 81renaissance]
    #377685 - 03/03/10 12:35 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

I thought it sounded dubious but if he's done it with success I am interested, not that I will be changing my system but I might give it a try if I ever have to germ old seeds or something.

Though the sandpaper is going to do the same thing and I would feel safer knowing I have control of how much comes off.


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OfflineBuddy Guy
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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: 81renaissance]
    #377932 - 03/03/10 06:10 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

81renaissance said:
I haven't used that practice, so Buddy would be the person to answer your question, but it seems like a bad idea.  I don't even leave my seeds soaking in pure water to split, I give them a 24 hour soak and then its directly into the plugs before they have a chance to open up.



I think there has been a misunderstanding here.. In my method the only soaking they do is in a organic black tea over night in the fridge. I have never left my seeds in the fridge longer than 24 hours. I stay on top of my seeds. You would too if you were spending good money on them. In fact, I have had people bring me seeds. Because they are having trouble cracking them. Old doods 2. I mean like 50+. Asking for my help to crack seeds that were over a year old when I got them that they had been trying to germinate them for that whole year. With NO success.  They gave me 11 seeds. Using my Black Tea Tek coupled with the sand paper method 81renaiassance speaks of I got 9 of those 11 seed to germinate.


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: Buddy Guy]
    #378009 - 03/03/10 09:07 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I agree, plugs are more difficult to grow seeds in because they get waterlogged so easily. I think coda uses them and I know a couple other experienced growers that do, but for a newbie starting out they should be avoided.




I honestly don't see what's so difficult about growing in peat pellets, I don't do anything special at all when I pop seeds.  I don't even bother pre-soaking the seeds in water.  I just hydrate the peat pellets with warm water, make a little hole about 1/2" deep, plop the seed in, lightly place a little peat over the seed (don't pack it down), then I plop it into my cloning chamber.  3 days later I have a sprout with the tap root out the bottom.

I think seed germination, like almost everything in cannabis cultivation, is scary to newbies because there's a fuck ton of different ways to do it.  It's one of those things where I tell people that if they find a method that works for them, just stick with it, because in the end they all do the same damn thing.  Give seed water, pop the tap root out, put in substrate.  Peat pellets have always worked for me no problem, so I never bothered using anything else. 

Anyways, as long as you don't microwave your seeds ( :wink: ), and they're viable, just keep them wet and warm and watch for the tap root.


--------------------


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Offlinepha3r0
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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: coda]
    #378115 - 03/03/10 11:45 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

coda said:
I honestly don't see what's so difficult about growing in peat pellets, I don't do anything special at all when I pop seeds.  I don't even bother pre-soaking the seeds in water.  I just hydrate the peat pellets with warm water, make a little hole about 1/2" deep, plop the seed in, lightly place a little peat over the seed (don't pack it down), then I plop it into my cloning chamber.  3 days later I have a sprout with the tap root out the bottom.

I think seed germination, like almost everything in cannabis cultivation, is scary to newbies because there's a fuck ton of different ways to do it.  It's one of those things where I tell people that if they find a method that works for them, just stick with it, because in the end they all do the same damn thing.  Give seed water, pop the tap root out, put in substrate.  Peat pellets have always worked for me no problem, so I never bothered using anything else. 

Anyways, as long as you don't microwave your seeds ( :wink: ), and they're viable, just keep them wet and warm and watch for the tap root.



QFTMFT folks. the seed is supposed to get buried, get wet and warm and then they either sprout or not (most the time).

I honestly have sprouted 10's of thousands of different seeds in my life. All the different techniques we discuss for sprouting MJ seeds really boil down to preference. "I do it this way and here is my results", "Oh well this is my tek bleh"... You can't compare one method to some one else's because they have different beans (unless they are using the rapid sprout microwave tek). I would never compare my germination rate from last year beefsteak's to some SS 100 seeds I just got from wal-mart. They are totally different seeds from totally different sources.

It really comes down to being in the right temperature range and keeping your seeds moist but not water logged. If you do that they will sprout, or they wont. If you keep soaking them in a towel and they don't sprout they are either not viable or you did something wrong, putting them in cold tea  or soaking them in diluted nutrient water is not going to make them sprout, they are just not viable. This is a natural occurrence and should be looked at as completely normal.

I am sorry if anyone gets upset at this I realize it took thousand of years for humans to realize we can cultivate crops from seed but it has been thousands since then.


--------------------
"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz

"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound


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OfflineBuddy Guy
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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: pha3r0]
    #382803 - 03/12/10 11:53 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

I'm thinking it's time for a new discussion. This Discussion thread is a good idea. As far as ideas for the next topic. How about seedling stage. Then vegetative growth and cloning. Also I noticed this thread stopped getting attention when ever it got locked in the top of the posts. A suggestion. Maybe let the thread run through like normal threads. Like the first Discussion Thread.


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Offlinepha3r0
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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: Buddy Guy]
    #383421 - 03/14/10 12:11 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

I think I killed it sorry, it is sunday though which is new topic day.


--------------------
"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz

"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound


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OfflineDelBoycie

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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: pha3r0]
    #387609 - 03/21/10 08:45 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

I tried to germinate seeds last year by putting them in moist soil inside an egg carton but none did. It turned out that they were old seeds and that was a big disappointment.

Now,I'm trying my hand again with what I hope are decent seeds.

I'm trying 3 different ways: putting them between moist paper towels between two plates. I dropped some into a cup of water and covered it. I also tried the soil in egg carton again.

I do feel that the water was a bit chilly though as it wasn't long out of the tap. It's room temperature now but would that hamper things?

I do have more seeds to try with so I'm not worried yet...

This is for an outdoor grow btw.


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: DelBoycie]
    #387683 - 03/21/10 01:26 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Yah, get some heat on those seeds.  Room temp is usually still too cold.


--------------------


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OfflineUnion420
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Re: *Discussion 2 - 03/02/2010 - The Germination Process and Techniques* [Re: coda]
    #387714 - 03/21/10 02:24 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

I start with the paper towel wet not soaked, place seeds in there then place the folded paper into a cup with a piece of foil over the cup and 1 or 2 holes poked in the foil. Then, and I think this is a great way, I place the cup into my old tub in tub incubator that I usto use for shrooms, temp set at 76, (gets higher if jars or good amounts of living mycellium are in there) and within 24 hours I have taproots emerging.

I then place them into rapid rooters, and place the rooters into a terrarium untill the taproot emerges from the plug and from there, I place rapid rooter into 1 to 3 gallon pots of flushed coco.

Ive had great results with the incubator, Id say 99% germ rate doing this, I dont have exact numbers on how many germs I did but I can say the number of seeds that havent germed was about 10 and thats out of hundreds. I dont recall ever seeing this tecnique used, kinda suprizing considering how well it works.

One good tip to remember, when you place the paper in the cup have it standing up so the root grows down making it easier later to place into a cube or rooter.


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Everything is fictional, I dont even exist.


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