Home | Community | Message Board


Seedsman.com
Please support our sponsors.

Cannabis, Marijuana, Ganja & Greens >> Cannabis Cultivation

Welcome to the Growery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: HPS, pH Test Strips

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
Free yourself from yourself
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,037
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
Trusted Cultivator
*Discussion 1 - 2/21/2010 - Preparing for Your Grow*
    #370509 - 02/22/10 03:30 PM (7 years, 5 days ago)

Welcome!  Hopefully you have already viewed this thread to get the background on what all this is supposed to be.  Quick rules for participation...


Anyone and everyone is encouraged to ask questions and provide any information they reasonably deem helpful and related. 
Keep off topic banter out of this thread.



Here are some questions you need to ask yourself when preparing for a grow that were brought to us by Azyle00.  I personally feel this is the most important aspect of growing cannabis (and everything else).  Planning is everything.  That means learning about the growth cycle of the plant to some extent, to be discussed later.  Although a thorough knowledge of each step is not required it can help you achieve maximum success, which is what we are after here. 

Quote:

Azyle00 said:
There are a lot of posts from first time growers or people who are brand new to growing and are about to try and grow at home for the first time.  Many rush in and start before even asking and learning about what they are really going to need to solve before embarking on this project. Simply planting a seed in soil and watering it is not going to produce very good results.  There is much more to being successful at producing, maintaining and growing decent and healthy plants.

This post contains the questions you need to ask yourself. 

Asking yourself these questions and learning about the options and hurdles you need to cross will really help you in getting answers for problems you face before you post asking for general help or tips about growing weed.

1) What is the size of my grow space (Example: 4' X 4' X 8')?

2) How many plants would I like to grow/handle at once?

3) Is my grow space enclosed or open?

4) What does my grow space have access to based on location (Example: Attics, Basements, Garage, Spare Room, Outdoors etc, etc)?

5) What ventilation does my grow space already have (Windows, Heating Vents, AC Ducts)?

6) Is it a high traffic or low traffic area around my grow space ?

7) Is smell from my grow space(yes weed growing SMELLS a lot) a factor/problem?

8) How will I deal with the smell generated by my grow space?

9) What type of light(s) am I planning to use, in detail (CFLs, Florescent, Metal Halide(MH), High Pressure Sodium(HPS), LED)?

10) Depending on the light chosen, how will I keep it cool/vented?

11) How will I keep the grow space cool (70-80F)?

12) How will I provide fresh air for the plants, or in other words, how will I vent the space continuously to exchange air?

13) Where will air that I expel or remove from my grow space go?

14) How will I safely provide power to run the equipment in my grow space?

15) How will I control the lights to power on and off on a strict schedule used in my grow space?

16) How will I position my lights and allow positional adjustments between my light and my plants?

17)What grow medium will I use, Soil, Hydro, Aero?

18) What "recipes" will I use, for my growing medium, for feeding during vegetative state, for feeding during flowering state?

19) How will I measure temperature and humidity in my grow space?

20) How will I measure PH in my water and soil?

21) How will I move air, to create a constant, oscillating breeze in my grow space?

22) Am I planting from seed or from cutting and rooting clones?

23) What are the start up costs for my project based on all the equipment I require?

24) What are my running costs, crop to crop or month to month based on my setup?

25) During the grow period, am I going to be away from my grow space for holidays, vacations etc?  How will I make sure my plants are ok during that time?

Answer these questions while in the planning stage and you will be far more successful than jumping in half blind.

All the information related to the above questions and much much more are available to you to research within this site by using the "Search" function.

Good luck with the quest! :stoned:




Questions to ask yourself before starting your first indoor grow

I think that's a good starting point for discussion.  If you want feel free to discuss anything related to this topic.  I was thinking it would be neat for each of the cultivators (or people who are just about to start their first grow) here to discuss their own grows and the issues they had to deal with prior to getting started.


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTriptonic
Male Arcade Champion: Spider Jump


Registered: 06/14/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc: Flag
Re: *Discussion 1 - 2/21/2010 - Preparing for Your Grow* [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #370555 - 02/22/10 03:54 PM (7 years, 5 days ago)

What is your budget for your grow?

How much are you at home during the week?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleGod
Yahweh

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
Re: *Discussion 1 - 2/21/2010 - Preparing for Your Grow* [Re: Triptonic]
    #370765 - 02/22/10 05:16 PM (7 years, 5 days ago)

I think the first two things that should be thought about when planning a grow are security and ventilation.  For some people, security isn't a factor, but for the others it's the most important one. We can probably do a whole thread about security, so I'm not going to go into it a whole lot in this post. However, if one needs security, it and ventilation kind of go hand in hand. Case in point:

"Where can I put a grow in my house? Well, I need a place that (1) I can properly ventilate (so the question might have to be "Can I cut holes in here?") and (2) that no one will notice, or notice any of the ventilation byproducts (unusual noises, breezes, smells, etc.)."

Once the factors of security and ventilation are considered thoroughly, you can actually start planning the rest of your room.

Something that I see overlooked often is that hot air rises. It's usually easier to take advantage of that by having intakes low in the room and exhausts up high.  Even if it's impractical to cut holes anywhere but in one odd wall, one can use ducting inside the room to deposit and remove air where it would be best suited.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
Free yourself from yourself
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,037
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
Trusted Cultivator
Re: *Discussion 1 - 2/21/2010 - Preparing for Your Grow* [Re: God]
    #370962 - 02/22/10 09:07 PM (7 years, 4 days ago)

Good points guys!

As trip mentioned, I think the most important thing to keep in mind while starting the preparation stage of your grow is to keep your budget in mind.  The higher your budget the less thrifty you have to be.  Security is also an issue that should be considered at every step along the way.

Quote:

"Where can I put a grow in my house? Well, I need a place that (1) I can properly ventilate (so the question might have to be "Can I cut holes in here?") and (2) that no one will notice, or notice any of the ventilation byproducts (unusual noises, breezes, smells, etc.)."




I've only done two grows so far.  of those two, neither of them had a carbon scrubber or anything else for the smell of the plants during flowering.  That was a problem, since I live in an apartment.  I am pretty sure they smelled it outside.  They did an inspection here just 36 hours after I manicured the plants.  Anyway, i think the ventilation issues should (in an ideal grow) go hand in hand with odor control.  But as you mentioned, cutting holes in the walls wasn't an option.  So I just loaded the room up with 3 fans.  it worked ok, just not for the smell. 

Quote:

Something that I see overlooked often is that hot air rises. It's usually easier to take advantage of that by having intakes low in the room and exhausts up high.  Even if it's impractical to cut holes anywhere but in one odd wall, one can use ducting inside the room to deposit and remove air where it would be best suited.




Great point!  Just the kind of thing that can be easily overlooked by a new grower.  That's an opportunity that shouldn't be missed.  There are lots of people that heat their homes with the heat produced by their grows. 

Some things that you absolutely have to acquire for the grow don't need to be a front end cost.  Meaning that you can just buy some items as you go along.  For example, things like flowering nutes, sugar and molasses supplements, etc can be purchased months after you start your grow.  I would suggest you spread your investment around a bit.  I mean buying items here and there until you have the minimum required to get your grow off the ground.  Seeds will last a long time if properly stored.  Lights are usually the most expensive part of any cannabis grow.  A brand new 400 watt setup will run ya around $200, but can be purchased cheaper through craigslist and ebay, among other sources (like ours and Shroomery's marketplace).


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepha3r0
Stranger


Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 615
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: *Discussion 1 - 2/21/2010 - Preparing for Your Grow* [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #371398 - 02/23/10 11:45 AM (7 years, 4 days ago)

proper ventilation is one thing i have seen 3 different people do all wrong first hand in my short career. really can't stress enough the difference it makes in cooling efficiency to have the air flow done right.

sorry I don't have anythign else to contribute right now, sotally tober and it :feelsbadman:


--------------------
"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz

"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedutc2006
Grow or Die


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 199
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: *Discussion 1 - 2/21/2010 - Preparing for Your Grow* [Re: pha3r0]
    #371673 - 02/23/10 06:22 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Another thing a person thinking about beginning to grow should consider is how much product they want and over how much time.  They should think about if they can live with the harvest from a single grow or if they should consider a perpetual harvest.  If you smoke like me you may be surprised how fast a large plant goes up in smoke.  If you want to have a seemingly endless supply, a perpetual grow may be the way to go.  Of course that entails having a space for vegging and a space for flowering at least.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offline81renaissance
Coachella '13 KKOTY
Male


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,181
Loc: State of Mind Flag
Last seen: 7 months, 12 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: *Discussion 1 - 2/21/2010 - Preparing for Your Grow* [Re: pha3r0]
    #371708 - 02/23/10 07:51 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

pha3r0 said:
proper ventilation is one thing i have seen 3 different people do all wrong first hand in my short career. really can't stress enough the difference it makes in cooling efficiency to have the air flow done right.

sorry I don't have anythign else to contribute right now, sotally tober and it :feelsbadman:




Pha3ro, what are the mistakes you've seen, and what advice would you give the noobs regarding ventilation.


--------------------
"So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut


BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepha3r0
Stranger


Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 615
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: *Discussion 1 - 2/21/2010 - Preparing for Your Grow* [Re: 81renaissance]
    #372050 - 02/24/10 12:43 AM (7 years, 3 days ago)

well now that I am in the right frame of mind and not helping people move lets think about this for a minute.

The big one is having your air flow going from bottom to top. It doesn't matter if it is a whole room or a 2x2 closet you can't expect to efficiently remove heat if you pull air out of the room anywhere but the top foot or so, vented hoods would be the exception i guess. You can blow cold air all over your lights but unless you are specifically removing the hottest air in the room all the other air is going to heat up

The other one is choosing where and how you exhaust. It matters that you get cold or at least cool air in to your space but you have to remember to not poison that air supply with your exhaust. The guy I gave one of my clones to was complaining that his room is always baking hot now and he can't keep his closet cool enough because that used to be his fresh air source. now with 7 soon to be bushes and several hundred watts of CFL's burning 24/7 the only choice is to exhaust elsewhere. The remedy since he can't cut holes was to build a panel that fits in to one edge of the bypass doors with sheet metal AC vents at the top and bottom. on the top is a 10ft length of ducting which he can put up the attic access. I also want to note that this problem came up quick and if he was not living with his plants it easily could have killed them if not checked for several hours.

Those are the two that I feel should have been common sense but needed an outside thinker to solve. But one other topic I want to hit is fan selection. certain fans are for certain jobs. some designs are better at pushing air under pressure and some are only sufficient to move air around a room. you need to consider this if you are going to be using any scrubbers or a long run of ducting. I have not yet but I know very soon I will need to stop shopping at thrift stores for my ventilation fans.


--------------------
"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz

"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFarmer Joe
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 1,706
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: *Discussion 1 - 2/21/2010 - Preparing for Your Grow* [Re: pha3r0]
    #372233 - 02/24/10 08:29 AM (7 years, 3 days ago)

I know most of us have common sense, but there are always a select few.

Tips (obvious they may be)

- know where you need to purchase needed items for your grow. Especially if large quantities of specific items are needed as it may appear suspicious to others. I personally purchase things here and there so less attention is drawn.

- Never take your own vehicle to a hydro store (if you're growing at your residence).

- Always use cash with any purchase related to your grow.

- If you have to go to Lowe's,walmart, home depot for a quick item, don't shop locally.  Maybe I just live in a small town but I always seem to run into someone I know. It's especially uncomfortable when it is a friend that knows you blaze, but does not know you grow and you can rest assured that they will easily put the pieces together. I price items locally and then shop a few towns over, it at least lessons your chances of seein someone you don't want to.

-Always keep some coin tucked aside for your girls. Consider it some insurance, you never know when you may need something in an emergency.


--------------------
"Marijuana may not be addictive, but growing it is" - ED Rosenthal



Maine Caregiver In 100% compliance with Maine state laws.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepha3r0
Stranger


Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 615
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: *Discussion 1 - 2/21/2010 - Preparing for Your Grow* [Re: Farmer Joe]
    #372238 - 02/24/10 08:59 AM (7 years, 3 days ago)

well I am up early and feeling great lets dig right into this. I was thinking about security last night but I didn't come up with much because, at least for most of us, our first and biggest layer of security is obscurity. most of us don't have a whole room let alone a whole facility to lock down. but even us growing in boxes and tents we need to remember that we have something other people want, those people are not to nice to come and take it some times. keep your mouth shut, your mind open and your doors locked.


I did think of one other aspect I myself over looked. when you grow things water is involved. lots and lots of it. plan on that when you build.

where do you get your water? distilled jugs? fridge filter? there is lots of sources but you are going to need a gallon a week for each plant.

where does your water go? plan for run off. in every box i build from now on i will integrate a catch basin with drain hose and all. individual trays are okay but when your go to flush a plant you need to handle some serious water flow. If your in a room you will want to either strip the carpet or build a waterproof floor lining.

and the last most importent question about water, where is all your electrical. if you set up your lights half assed and have cords hangin around and power strips on the floor your are asking for problems. get that shit off the floor. mount it solidly to the wall up above waist level if you can. nothing will get you busted like 16 fire fighters coming to put out your house.


--------------------
"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz

"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
Free yourself from yourself
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,037
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
Trusted Cultivator
Re: *Discussion 1 - 2/21/2010 - Preparing for Your Grow* [Re: pha3r0]
    #374450 - 02/27/10 02:11 AM (7 years, 15 hours ago)

Good points FJ and pha3r0! 

Quote:

This is important to bear in mind before you grow your weed.  Have you got the time to take care of your plants? Are you going to be
taking long holidays? Have you got someone you trust to take care of your plants? And if you do how secure is your grow area? How do the
people you live with feel about this? Can you hide the smell when the plants start to flower? Are you prepared to pay money on lights and
other grow items? Are you prepared to pay the costs of a higher electricity bill? Are people going to see your grow room? Are people
going to walk past your grow site outdoors? Is the meter man going to see your grow room? Is the gas man going to see your grow room? Are
you sure that you really want to do this?

This is important to bear in mind before you grow your weed.  Have you got the time to take care of your plants? Are you going to be
taking long holidays? Have you got someone you trust to take care of your plants? And if you do how secure is your grow area? How do the
people you live with feel about this? Can you hide the smell when the plants start to flower? Are you prepared to pay money on lights and
other grow items? Are you prepared to pay the costs of a higher electricity bill? Are people going to see your grow room? Are people
going to walk past your grow site outdoors? Is the meter man going to see your grow room? Is the gas man going to see your grow room? Are
you sure that you really want to do this?


NEVER TELL ANYONE THAT YOU ARE GROWING CANNABIS!




From the cannabis growing bible by greg green.

It's also important to start with good genetics, whether they are obtained through sexual (seed) reproduction or asexual (clone) reproduction.  That's not always possible but if it is I'd recommend it.  However, a fine specimen can be grown from bagseed.  Look for seeds that are dark brown or light grey. Some may have dark lines inset into these colors, like tiger stripes. White, small seeds are immature and should not be planted.

Good seeds:



Bad seeds:

damn, i can't find a picture of some bad seeds.  If anyone has a pic or finds one please share.  As said above white, or green, small seeds are immature. 


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepha3r0
Stranger


Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 615
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: *Discussion 1 - 2/21/2010 - Preparing for Your Grow* [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #374493 - 02/27/10 10:16 AM (7 years, 7 hours ago)

geeze not much action here or does no one want to go after me? all the people that said yeah lets do it come on furrowed open a thread! where did yall go?


--------------------
"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz

"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
Free yourself from yourself
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,037
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
Trusted Cultivator
Re: *Discussion 1 - 2/21/2010 - Preparing for Your Grow* [Re: pha3r0]
    #374530 - 02/27/10 12:35 PM (7 years, 5 hours ago)

well, i think it's the topic.  This isn't anything that's very exciting.  It's mainly just questions that need to be asked before you start.  I'll start the next one tomorrow but will leave this open in case anyone ever has anything to add.


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFarmer Joe
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 1,706
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: *Discussion 1 - 2/21/2010 - Preparing for Your Grow* [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #374537 - 02/27/10 12:48 PM (7 years, 5 hours ago)

Are these discussions generally geared towards indoor gorwing?

Or are the aspects of outdoor growing to be discussed as well?


--------------------
"Marijuana may not be addictive, but growing it is" - ED Rosenthal



Maine Caregiver In 100% compliance with Maine state laws.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
Free yourself from yourself
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,037
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
Trusted Cultivator
Re: *Discussion 1 - 2/21/2010 - Preparing for Your Grow* [Re: Farmer Joe]
    #374539 - 02/27/10 12:52 PM (7 years, 5 hours ago)

We can be proactive in pursuing all knowledge related to cannabis cultivation.  Add topics you want to have discussions on in this thread.

I was thinking about doing germination next then the roots.  Too many people underestimate and neglect the importance of healthy roots so I think that one would be good.  But let's move this discussion to the thread posted above to keep this one on topic.


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
The Growery's Herb Museum (post #24)
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepha3r0
Stranger


Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 615
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: *Discussion 1 - 2/21/2010 - Preparing for Your Grow* [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #374817 - 02/27/10 09:26 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Something I have not seen personally but have heard of is people not fully understanding some of the costs involved in growing indoors. All of the bullet points we have thought of all have an associated cost. Growing is way cheaper then buying your cannabis but you do need to consider the costs of all these steps as you debate wether to take them or not.

If you are going to grow for production you will have some income but personal grows can go south just as quick as a commercial size grow and if you don't have the 20 bucks for the fix you very well may lose it.

For those starting out on a budget I suggest planning well ahead and keeping a 20 spot in the back of your wallet then when you absolutly need to go buy a bulb or some Cal-Mag or whatever you have the cash. Cal-Mag you could go without for a bit but If you run a single fixture and the bulb goes out you need a new one right now not on pay day. For those with larger plans you should consider keeping a lot more cash on hand. When the AC dies is the wrong time to worry about finding the money to replace it.

Also this advise is great for life in general guys, keep a few bills for a rainy day and it will be a lot easier to :smile:


--------------------
"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz

"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Amazon Shop for: HPS, pH Test Strips

Cannabis, Marijuana, Ganja & Greens >> Cannabis Cultivation

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Discussion Group Information and Suggestion Box
( 1 2 3 all )
FurrowedBrowM 5,060 55 03/01/10 02:26 PM
by SillyString525
* GreenThumb's Garden. What does your Garbage grow??? 84 Days Flowering. UPDATE 3-8-10
( 1 2 all )
DrGreenThumb 11,194 36 10/10/10 08:13 AM
by OGman
* Hi / Preparing for next attempt snufkin 689 1 10/22/08 10:53 PM
by Dr. Penguin
* Grow questions Ero42oH2o 1,030 3 05/11/09 11:10 AM
by ethnoguy
* Going to Start a Grow in a Couple of Months - Beginning Questions FugueRider 2,191 7 04/30/09 04:59 PM
by FugueRider
* Question on grow cabinets mister 3,547 12 10/31/09 12:41 PM
by mister
* First newbie grow should get feminized seeds? or no? pftek 1,452 8 09/26/09 04:02 PM
by Jeff Funk
* Questions to ask yourself before starting your first indoor grow
( 1 2 all )
Azyle00 28,501 29 03/29/16 01:33 PM
by Chakanooga

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: FurrowedBrow, Magash, Dr. Siekadellyk, phychotron
3,753 topic views. 0 members, 167 guests and 87 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Seedsman.com
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.091 seconds spending 0.002 seconds on 14 queries.