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 DudeTron
Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 407
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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 Re: Isn't extinction a good thing?  [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#361496 - 02/10/10 06:42 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Inbred_gimp
Herb Connesuir
Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 1,115
Loc: Beyond the wall of sleep
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: DudeTron]
#361498 - 02/10/10 07:03 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I agree with what other people are saying here, and that is that natural evolution and extinction is based on a world where humans did not have such a huge impact on the earth ie: before major industrialization. Our destruction of ecosystems and habitat are surely affecting the rate at which species are becoming extinct and possibly driving many species to extinction that wouldn't of gone extinct without the human species causing them to.
I believe that in this modern day and age where humans have such a massive impact on the environment through things such as hunting, logging, fishing, waste dumping and all the gas' and fumes we output into the world, We Do have a responsibility to prevent animals becoming extinct as we do not know which ones would of died out naturally and which ones us humans as a species are driving to extinction.
With great power comes great responsibility.
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 niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,765
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: Inbred_gimp]
#361510 - 02/10/10 08:17 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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So natural evolution is to stop
now that humans are here 
More arrogance from the primates
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The Ego is a pathological conditionlike a calcareous tumor or cystthat begins growing in the personalityin the absence of hallucinogenic substances-Terence McKenna-
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal 
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: niteowl]
#361512 - 02/10/10 08:20 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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he's not saying it's going to stop but rather that the forces we're able to impart on species are far more destructive than the natural forces that evolution generally deals with. Evolution is a very slow process which generally deals with issues such as mating, finding food, or surviving drought etc. Nothing on this planet is evolutionarily adapted to deal with a giant machine tearing down trees and destroying habitat by the thousands of square miles annually. literally, NOTHING on this planet can evolve to cope with that.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,765
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#361612 - 02/10/10 01:31 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Are you trying to say that humans are not natural, or are somehow above nature?
I can assure you that we are just as natural as a beaver building a damn.
Nothing we do is above nature
so any animal that goes extinct
due to human activity, is again
just a natural part of earths evolution
Trying to argue otherwise is more primate arrogance.
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The Ego is a pathological conditionlike a calcareous tumor or cystthat begins growing in the personalityin the absence of hallucinogenic substances-Terence McKenna-
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: niteowl]
#361625 - 02/10/10 01:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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While I agree with you fundamentally you're missing a VERY important point.
Of course we're natural, we're just another animal that evolved on this planet like everything else.
That being said, what we can do is absolutely not natural and is entirely unprecedented over the entire history of the planet.
Evolution is retroactive; what I mean by that genetic mutations such as a longer beak or shorter legs occur as random mutations and then current conditions cull out the weak ones. It does not mean that a gazelle can just be like "oh shit here come the humans, I better grow some wings so I can fly the fuck away from this place."
Natural evolution takes place over tens of thousands of years as (for example) the birds with the brightest colors breed the most, and eventually their offspring is the majority of the population and the entire species is bright and colorful.
It is absolutely NOT primate arrogance to think that we're different than other animals on the planet. in fact I would argue that saying we're the exact same as everything else on this planet is just dumbfoundingly ignorant (or intentionally blind). Name me another species that can extract and burn fossil fuels. Name me another species that can remove thousands of square miles of healthy intact forest in a year. Name me another species that can clear cut entire continents to cultivate food, distribute that food via roadways and generate electricity to harvest the grains at 10,000,000% efficiency compared to harvesting by hand. Hell, name me another species that has guns. Or the ability to mass-fish like we do with nets and cages. Name me another animal with even a SINGLE domesticated pet, let alone the hundreds we can claim (tens of thousands if you consider domesticated species for agriculture and livestock).
No matter how much you want to just be an innocent little animal doing whatever it wants in this world you have to recognize that NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING in the entire history of this planet has EVER been capable of what we are. We have unbelievable sophisticated and powerful tools at our disposal that allow us to shape and alter this planet to suit OUR needs at a rate that was never before even conceivable.
The most incredible part about that is that only 200 years ago we had basically none of this. We did all of our farming by hand, we built our structures by hand, coal and gasoline had never even been thought of. Considering "natural" evolution takes thousands upon thousands of years to completely alter a species to better suit the environment, what makes you think everything on the planet is suddenly going to start evolving on a timescale of a century or two?
that, in my opinion is primate arrogance
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Edited by Harry_Ba11sach (02/10/10 02:00 PM)
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,765
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#361662 - 02/10/10 03:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Considering "natural" evolution takes thousands upon thousands of years to completely alter a species to better suit the environment
Then where are these new species coming from in places where we have used nukes?
These animals have adapted to their new environment in a matter of decades.
Evolution takes thousands and thousands of years ..... pssht
more primate arrogance thinking we know how shit works
And humans have been affecting the environment the day we conquered fire
When we started building ships and moving animals from point A to point B
To say that what we are doing now is unnatural is a blatant lie
it may be abnormal but it is far from unnatural my friend
To take on the stance that our existence on the planet
is to prevent animals from ever becoming extinct is foolish
that is placing us above nature and you cant do that
If that is your stance then you must be a Christian
If the basic teachings of evolution
is 'only the strong survive'
then aren't we doing something right
the only species that are on the verge of extinction are ones
that were close to that point prior to humans showing up
we are just speeding the process up a bit, noting to stress over
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The Ego is a pathological conditionlike a calcareous tumor or cystthat begins growing in the personalityin the absence of hallucinogenic substances-Terence McKenna-
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: niteowl]
#361670 - 02/10/10 03:49 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said:
Quote:
Considering "natural" evolution takes thousands upon thousands of years to completely alter a species to better suit the environment
Then where are these new species coming from in places where we have used nukes?
These animals have adapted to their new environment in a matter of decades.
Evolution takes thousands and thousands of years ..... pssht
more primate arrogance thinking we know how shit works
are you joking man? Do you seriously think we've been using nukes for thousands and thousands of years? that's literally the stupidest thing I think I've heard in years.
We have so much information on evolution that you're completely insane to think we don't know how it works. Please go read up on the basic fundamentals of how a species changes to fit it's environment and then please rejoin this debate when you're educated enough to comprehend what's being said to you. I don't have time to be your Biology 1000 professor and this is simply a waste of my time.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,765
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#361694 - 02/10/10 04:12 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Then please explain the mutations and adaptations that happened at these nuke sites
animals adapted and have thrived in these 'hostile environments'
that is evolution happening in a matter of decades
not thousands and thousands of years man
Yes we have an 'idea' of how evolution works
we do NOT know he whole story on how evolution works though
it is arrogant to claim otherwise
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The Ego is a pathological conditionlike a calcareous tumor or cystthat begins growing in the personalityin the absence of hallucinogenic substances-Terence McKenna-
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: niteowl]
#361696 - 02/10/10 04:16 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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give me an example and I'll gladly work you through the process. I don't have time to search out every individual case and explain natural order to you.
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Edited by Harry_Ba11sach (02/10/10 04:17 PM)
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,765
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#361699 - 02/10/10 04:23 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I was watching a documentary on the Bikini Islands the other night
and they were talking about how there were many different species of coral
and even a new species of shark that had adapted to the environment
That is evolution happening in a matter of decades, there is no disputing that fact
these animals adapted and survived in these highly irradiated areas, quickly
that alone flys in the face of your thousands and thousands of years theory
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The Ego is a pathological conditionlike a calcareous tumor or cystthat begins growing in the personalityin the absence of hallucinogenic substances-Terence McKenna-
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DoPeYsMuRf
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 645
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: niteowl]
#361704 - 02/10/10 04:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Evolution happens every generation of life.
Think about it. Why would they have to come up with a new flu vaccine every year.
It's because the virus has evolved.
You inoculate a petri dish with bacteria. Place it in 90 degrees incubator.
All that survive have evolved too.
Take the same bacteria and put into 60 degrees.
All that survived have evolved too.
Evolution is dependent on the length of any given organisms life cycle.
Now if your talking whoops the polar ice caps melted. It would take a long time for us to evolve gills like Kevin Costner.
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Inbred_gimp
Herb Connesuir
Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 1,115
Loc: Beyond the wall of sleep
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: DoPeYsMuRf]
#361894 - 02/10/10 07:02 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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i just dont think that this is how we are supposed to be living.
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mel_lonta_tauda
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 9,407
Loc: the sun
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: DoPeYsMuRf]
#361908 - 02/10/10 07:08 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoPeYsMuRf said:
Now if your talking whoops the polar ice caps melted. It would take a long time for us to evolve gills like Kevin Costner.
waterworld was a badass movie
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,041
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: Inbred_gimp]
#361951 - 02/10/10 08:22 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inbred_gimp said:
i just dont think that this is how we are supposed to be living.
Hemp to save the world!
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DudeTron
Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 407
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#362151 - 02/11/10 05:22 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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To say that we've somehow broken the rules and now defy the ways of the earth is silly. We are still of the earth and we can never NOT be a product of her... UNLESS you believe in creationism or extra-terrestrial intervention.
I love what DopeySmurf said....
We ARE a macro virus on the flesh of the Earth, and I'm still convinced we'll be dealt with accordingly... And if not, then we DID win whatever game was set in motion at the dawn of time...
Now personally, I am quite against the destruction of rare habitats, and think it's shortsighted the way we pollute (the great pacific garbage patch? are you fucking kidding me?) but I also feel that it's a very sentimental and cultural... I mean, is there really such thing as littering amongst acres and acres of concrete, steel and composite materials suffocating our land?
Also, Haven't WE evolved in the last 200 years? Aren't we a bit taller, have larger breasts and different immune systems?
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,765
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#362165 - 02/11/10 07:33 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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and what about all the deliberate extinctions that humans have done ?
small pox
polio
I didn't hear any people crying when we killed those organisms
but heaven forbid some rare squid in the deep goes extinct 
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The Ego is a pathological conditionlike a calcareous tumor or cystthat begins growing in the personalityin the absence of hallucinogenic substances-Terence McKenna-
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Inbred_gimp
Herb Connesuir
Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 1,115
Loc: Beyond the wall of sleep
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: niteowl]
#362169 - 02/11/10 07:53 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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my main belief on this issue is that the earth is alot more important than the human species and we should recognize that by nurturing it and not by pillaging it for its resources for our benefit, especially when we could get all the resources we need from environmentally friendly sources, Instead of sources like dwindling fossil fuels etc. talking about 'primate arrogance' i believe that real primate arrogance is things like logging and overfishing.
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: niteowl]
#362178 - 02/11/10 08:41 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said:
and what about all the deliberate extinctions that humans have done ?
small pox
polio
I didn't hear any people crying when we killed those organisms
but heaven forbid some rare squid in the deep goes extinct
this is another example of you not fully comprehending how survival of the fittest goes. First, I don't think it's fair that we fully extinguished those species. That said, since they were organisms whose sole purpose was to cause destruction and death for the human race, we couldn't just stand by and let them kill us and thankfully we were able to stop them from doing just that. I only wish there was another intelligent species on this planet to do the same to us.
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,041
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Isn't extinction a good thing? [Re: niteowl]
#362180 - 02/11/10 08:47 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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^There is. It's called fungi!
Quote:
niteowl said:
and what about all the deliberate extinctions that humans have done ?
small pox
polio
I didn't hear any people crying when we killed those organisms
but heaven forbid some rare squid in the deep goes extinct
not to mention that america has the entire world trying to make the most useful plant in existence a thing of the past. shit is wack.
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