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Offlinepftek
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I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand.
    #311306 - 11/06/09 06:46 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)



It has two reservoir tanks. I don't understand the point and use for these. Is it because it's easier to put all the nutrients in one tub? then why have two?


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
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Re: I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand. [Re: pftek]
    #311315 - 11/06/09 06:58 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

The top one is a supply reservoir. The bottom one is a control(er) reservoir. As the nutrient level in the bottom reservoir decreases, the top reservoir re-fills the bottom reservoir. Does that make sense?


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Edited by Crusty Ass Bastard (11/06/09 07:00 PM)


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OfflineTomCollins


Registered: 10/06/09
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Re: I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand. [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #311322 - 11/06/09 07:13 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

This guy built a system like that. It's a little different because he used individual buckets instead of 4 containers with 6 pot holes, but it's the same concept of supply and controller rez.

Those are pretty complex systems for hydro growing. Really only for heavy duty growing. I hope you got some mad lights for the plants. :P

http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/31912#31912


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


Edited by TomCollins (11/06/09 07:14 PM)


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Offlinepftek
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Re: I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand. [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #311333 - 11/06/09 07:29 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

206 said:
The top one is a supply reservoir. The bottom one is a control(er) reservoir. As the nutrient level in the bottom reservoir decreases, the top reservoir re-fills the bottom reservoir. Does that make sense?




I think. So let me get this straight. The bottom tub is directly supplying the 4 tubs on the bottom with water and nutrients. What's in the bottom tub is the exact same thing in the 4 tubs with the plants. The top tub is excess supply and when the plants start eating the nutrients and using the water the top reservoir replenishes the bottom one which then directly supplies the tubs with the plants.


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Offlinepftek
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Re: I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand. [Re: TomCollins]
    #311334 - 11/06/09 07:30 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Spency said:
This guy built a system like that. It's a little different because he used individual buckets instead of 4 containers with 6 pot holes, but it's the same concept of supply and controller rez.

Those are pretty complex systems for hydro growing. Really only for heavy duty growing. I hope you got some mad lights for the plants. :P

http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/31912#31912




i'm thinking of just using Compact Florescent Lights. Not sure if they'll do the trick. I hope so?


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Offlinepftek
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Re: I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand. [Re: TomCollins]
    #311337 - 11/06/09 07:35 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Spency said:
This guy built a system like that. It's a little different because he used individual buckets instead of 4 containers with 6 pot holes, but it's the same concept of supply and controller rez.

Those are pretty complex systems for hydro growing. Really only for heavy duty growing. I hope you got some mad lights for the plants. :P

http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/31912#31912




is there a way to build the above without that timer.

I'm trying to figure out a way so it'll fill each of the 4 tubs with exactly 6 gallons of water and nutrients and constantly keep it at that level. (the tubs are 8 gallons).

I was thinking I'd build all 4 tubs (the ones with the pots) with a drain at exactly the 6 gallon mark.  They don't do this. they have some floating device???


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand. [Re: pftek]
    #311387 - 11/06/09 08:30 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

pftek said:
Quote:

Spency said:
This guy built a system like that. It's a little different because he used individual buckets instead of 4 containers with 6 pot holes, but it's the same concept of supply and controller rez.

Those are pretty complex systems for hydro growing. Really only for heavy duty growing. I hope you got some mad lights for the plants. :P

http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/31912#31912




is there a way to build the above without that timer.

I'm trying to figure out a way so it'll fill each of the 4 tubs with exactly 6 gallons of water and nutrients and constantly keep it at that level. (the tubs are 8 gallons).

I was thinking I'd build all 4 tubs (the ones with the pots) with a drain at exactly the 6 gallon mark.  They don't do this. they have some floating device???





So your wanting a passive flow system??  My guess is that's what your talking about.  If so, here's how I would get the water to stay the desired level.  First I'd take a ballcock fill valve, the thing in your toilet that controls the level of water, and use that as your connecting piece from your main reservoir to your reservoir that supplies your buckets.  That way whenever the water level drops a bit the ballcock drops and allows a little more water/nutrients to flow into your bucket reservoir.  Therein keeping it at a constant level.


In all honesty though I don't really like a passive system like this.  When I was using this method I found that the buckets don't really stay at the desired level of pH and nutrient ppm that I preferred.  So I made a recirculating system, somewhat similar to the tek posted earlier but with one big difference.  Instead of having one big reservoir that feeds your control bucket, I take the control buck out all together.  I connect the main reservoir to all the buckets via an h2o pump.  The outflow of this being split from 1 tube into 2, with this tube going over each arm of buckets creating a constant flow of water to every bucket.  Then from every bucket I have a return line at the bottom bringing h2o back to the main reservoir. 

This way you have 50+ gallons of water circulating through all of your buckets instead of just a little bit of h20.  And since they're drawing off of a large volume of nutrient h2o the pH swings are greatly reduced and all the buckets stay in sync as far as pH and ppm are concerned. 


I hope that made sense.


--------------------
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Offlinepftek
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Re: I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand. [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #311694 - 11/07/09 12:16 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

hawksapprentice said:
Quote:

pftek said:
Quote:

Spency said:
This guy built a system like that. It's a little different because he used individual buckets instead of 4 containers with 6 pot holes, but it's the same concept of supply and controller rez.

Those are pretty complex systems for hydro growing. Really only for heavy duty growing. I hope you got some mad lights for the plants. :P

http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/31912#31912




is there a way to build the above without that timer.

I'm trying to figure out a way so it'll fill each of the 4 tubs with exactly 6 gallons of water and nutrients and constantly keep it at that level. (the tubs are 8 gallons).

I was thinking I'd build all 4 tubs (the ones with the pots) with a drain at exactly the 6 gallon mark.  They don't do this. they have some floating device???





So your wanting a passive flow system??  My guess is that's what your talking about.  If so, here's how I would get the water to stay the desired level.  First I'd take a ballcock fill valve, the thing in your toilet that controls the level of water, and use that as your connecting piece from your main reservoir to your reservoir that supplies your buckets.  That way whenever the water level drops a bit the ballcock drops and allows a little more water/nutrients to flow into your bucket reservoir.  Therein keeping it at a constant level.


In all honesty though I don't really like a passive system like this.  When I was using this method I found that the buckets don't really stay at the desired level of pH and nutrient ppm that I preferred.  So I made a recirculating system, somewhat similar to the tek posted earlier but with one big difference.  Instead of having one big reservoir that feeds your control bucket, I take the control buck out all together.  I connect the main reservoir to all the buckets via an h2o pump.  The outflow of this being split from 1 tube into 2, with this tube going over each arm of buckets creating a constant flow of water to every bucket.  Then from every bucket I have a return line at the bottom bringing h2o back to the main reservoir. 

This way you have 50+ gallons of water circulating through all of your buckets instead of just a little bit of h20.  And since they're drawing off of a large volume of nutrient h2o the pH swings are greatly reduced and all the buckets stay in sync as far as pH and ppm are concerned. 


I hope that made sense.




yeah it does a bit. so the control bucket is just to balance the ph level and food content before I put it in all the buckets?

i just want an easy system to do this all. this came with a deep tutorial on how to do 1 tub only. not on how to do multiples.


Edited by pftek (11/07/09 12:24 PM)


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OfflineTomCollins


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Re: I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand. [Re: pftek]
    #311709 - 11/07/09 12:41 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

If you want simple, do a DWC - All it is is netted cups, a big container and an air-stone. That's pretty simple to build and manage I think. Oh and by the way, if your wanting to do a 24 plant grow... I'd suggest an HID light.


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


Edited by TomCollins (11/07/09 12:42 PM)


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Offlinepftek
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Re: I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand. [Re: TomCollins]
    #311774 - 11/07/09 02:45 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Spency said:
If you want simple, do a DWC - All it is is netted cups, a big container and an air-stone. That's pretty simple to build and manage I think. Oh and by the way, if your wanting to do a 24 plant grow... I'd suggest an HID light.




but i really want to do this set up i've learned so much on it and plan to expand. but still just having some trouble on this. I even got the PDF file here.

http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/PDF_Files/Ver_2_1/Reservoirs.pdf

I think I can build it but still at a loss. i think having no experience in the matter is really screwing me up.


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OfflineTomCollins


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Re: I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand. [Re: pftek]
    #311820 - 11/07/09 03:54 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

Sometimes it's not about doing what you want to do, it's about being practical. Also it's like Hawk said, the double rez could be more pain than it's worth, because essentially you will be calibrating the PH of two different tanks. Let me tell you, you will probably be doing it a lot the first time you fill it up. On average I test and calibrate my system 1-2 a day. So if you're going to build this system, make sure you can access the bottom tank easily.

In addition to all this, now that I looked at the pdf of the system you want to build, I can't help but wonder if you have a clue as to what a DWC system is?

The system you want to build is a DWC system that auto fills. Am I the only person who thinks there is really no sense in that? How often do you think you need to refill a standalone DWC? The roots will shoot down into the water anyway, so it's not like the level needs to be constant.

I can understand if you really want to build it, but understand this: Your still making a DWC - a DWC that looks difficult to manage and expensive to build. Yeah, also I think your going to need an aerator for each tank...

If you want to do a multi tank system like that, you don't even need that extra tank on top. You just need the controller tank. Just fill that sucker up when the water gets low, and boom. Also, then you only need to calibrate one tank. That being said, all you would need are the bottom fittings and hoses going to each tank.


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


Edited by TomCollins (11/07/09 04:03 PM)


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Offlinepftek
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Re: I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand. [Re: TomCollins]
    #311864 - 11/07/09 05:18 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Spency said:
Sometimes it's not about doing what you want to do, it's about being practical. Also it's like Hawk said, the double rez could be more pain than it's worth, because essentially you will be calibrating the PH of two different tanks. Let me tell you, you will probably be doing it a lot the first time you fill it up. On average I test and calibrate my system 1-2 a day. So if you're going to build this system, make sure you can access the bottom tank easily.

In addition to all this, now that I looked at the pdf of the system you want to build, I can't help but wonder if you have a clue as to what a DWC system is?

The system you want to build is a DWC system that auto fills. Am I the only person who thinks there is really no sense in that? How often do you think you need to refill a standalone DWC? The roots will shoot down into the water anyway, so it's not like the level needs to be constant.

I can understand if you really want to build it, but understand this: Your still making a DWC - a DWC that looks difficult to manage and expensive to build. Yeah, also I think your going to need an aerator for each tank...

If you want to do a multi tank system like that, you don't even need that extra tank on top. You just need the controller tank. Just fill that sucker up when the water gets low, and boom. Also, then you only need to calibrate one tank. That being said, all you would need are the bottom fittings and hoses going to each tank.




Would it be easier say - I want 3 tubs. So you think it'd be easier just to have 3 tubs - stand alone. And I work with each tub individually. OR have 3 tubs + 1 controller tank tub?


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OfflineTomCollins


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Re: I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand. [Re: pftek]
    #311902 - 11/07/09 06:09 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

Well for construction, 3 standalone tubs would be easiest- managing PH and nutrient levels of each individual tub would be the most "effective way" to manage your systems as well - I say this because there could be an issue with delay in regards to PH regulating. For example, if you calibrate the PH in your controller tank, it may take a while before it effectively spreads throughout all 4 tubs. By the time it's done that, whatever calibration you did would be off, because the buffer solution would be more spread out. However, as long as you know how much water is in your system at all times, and exactly how much to add to get the PH to a certain level, this shouldn't be a problem. :-P But there you see the difficulty. Then again, what any normal person would do is just check, calibrate and wait a little while and then do a second check and if necessary a second calibration. Time consuming, but really not as painful as checking each system individually.

With that said though, I think if you went with the controller and when you set it all up, and you get all the tubs filled, and just do a day of calibrating and testing it should be ok and the levels should not vary that much.

Since your doing 3 tubs regardless of a controller or not, I'd say go with the controller. Managing things might take a little longer, but would really be hassle free. It would be a pain to individually check each system.

So, I think the controller setup, minus the auto fill rez would be the best solution for you. Easy to build, easy to manage (just possibly time consuming.)


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


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Offlinepftek
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Re: I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand. [Re: TomCollins]
    #311934 - 11/07/09 06:53 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Spency said:
Well for construction, 3 standalone tubs would be easiest- managing PH and nutrient levels of each individual tub would be the most "effective way" to manage your systems as well - I say this because there could be an issue with delay in regards to PH regulating. For example, if you calibrate the PH in your controller tank, it may take a while before it effectively spreads throughout all 4 tubs. By the time it's done that, whatever calibration you did would be off, because the buffer solution would be more spread out. However, as long as you know how much water is in your system at all times, and exactly how much to add to get the PH to a certain level, this shouldn't be a problem. :-P But there you see the difficulty. Then again, what any normal person would do is just check, calibrate and wait a little while and then do a second check and if necessary a second calibration. Time consuming, but really not as painful as checking each system individually.

With that said though, I think if you went with the controller and when you set it all up, and you get all the tubs filled, and just do a day of calibrating and testing it should be ok and the levels should not vary that much.

Since your doing 3 tubs regardless of a controller or not, I'd say go with the controller. Managing things might take a little longer, but would really be hassle free. It would be a pain to individually check each system.

So, I think the controller setup, minus the auto fill rez would be the best solution for you. Easy to build, easy to manage (just possibly time consuming.)




So with this controller? What exactly does it do. I'm still confused. sorry for this.

It has nozzles that would refill my tubs with the proper nutrients, water, and ph level.

How does it know the PH level of each of the 3 other tubs? Couldn't they be very different? So if one tub is too high and another too low... I'd be screwed? Or does this not happen with a controller? would it know to only fill each 8 gallon tub to 6 gallons then stop? Could it also drain all 3 tubs when I give the roots an air bath? Also, the controller tub would physically have to be higher than the other tubs to get water to them?

i wish I could just see this in action.


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OfflineTomCollins


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Re: I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand. [Re: pftek]
    #312144 - 11/08/09 03:48 AM (7 years, 27 days ago)

No dude. Did you sleep during physics class in high school? :tongue:

Quote:

pftek said:
So with this controller? What exactly does it do. I'm still confused. sorry for this.




The controller allows you to add water and calibrate PH & Nutrient levels FOR ALL THE TUBS. It also acts as just a general reservoir for the other tubs, so that it would take A LONG TIME for the level to drop.


Quote:

pftek said:It has nozzles that would refill my tubs with the proper nutrients, water, and ph level.




Right, and the nozzles/valves are always kept open. That way the water level in each tube will alway be level with each other, assuming they are all the same height. That's why it's important to have the nozzles so low down (bottom of the tank) as you can see in your PDF. Because it only works via gravity, so therefore if water level in one tank dropped bellow nozzle level, then the system is broken. valves always on the bottom and always open.

Quote:

pftek said:How does it know the PH level of each of the 3 other tubs? Couldn't they be very different?




It doesn't "know" what the PH of the other tubs is. Take a glass of water, and drop some buffer solution in it. Watch what happens. It spreads out. Same shit would happen with your system, but it would take a while. Thats why you need to do some hardcore initial calibration before you stick those plants in, so that way any and all future calibration would be minimal.

So yes initially, RIGHT after a calibration, you could check the PH in your controller and then in one of your tubs and they would in fact be different. However, over the course of say 1 hour, they would be the same. 

Quote:

pftek said:So if one tub is too high and another too low... I'd be screwed? Or does this not happen with a controller? would it know to only fill each 8 gallon tub to 6 gallons then stop? 




No, as long as those valves are on the bottom of each tub including the controller, the water level will remain constant throughout each tub. This is why it's nice to have a controller with a multi tub system, because you can control the level for each tank through one. All the other tubs would be just as full as it is.

So lets say for example your system is up and running - and your water level in your controller is a little on the low side. This means the water level in each tank is low too. So you pour water into your controller to the level you want, and the tanks will rise to that level as well. SO LONG AS THOSE VALVES ON THE BOTTOM STAY OPEN ALL THE TIME.

Quote:

pftek said:
Could it also drain all 3 tubs when I give the roots an air bath?




It could drain them, but I would then make an additional valve on the controller, also located at the same height as the other valves. Put it on the other side of the controller or in a convenient location (just on the bottom.) That way, when you want to drain it, just hook up a long hose leading to your bathroom floor drain. Turn the valve on and boom, drainage.

Quote:

pftek said:Also, the controller tub would physically have to be higher than the other tubs to get water to them?




NOOOO! This would in fact overflow the other tubs. Remember, if two bodies of water are connected, via a river/pipeline/etc those two bodies will adjust/remain to be at the same level. So as long as your tubs are hook up with those valves on the bottom, and they stay open all the time, as your plants drink your solution out of your plant tubs, the controller will feed solution to the tubs. THE WATER LEVEL IN EACH TUB WILL BE EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE OTHER. Remember, whatever water level your tub is at, your other tubs are at.

That's why this system is cool.

Quote:

pftek said:i wish I could just see this in action.



:shrug:


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


Edited by TomCollins (11/08/09 10:20 AM)


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Offlinepftek
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Re: I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand. [Re: TomCollins]
    #312208 - 11/08/09 11:39 AM (7 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Spency said:
No dude. Did you sleep during physics class in high school? :tongue:

Quote:

pftek said:
So with this controller? What exactly does it do. I'm still confused. sorry for this.




The controller allows you to add water and calibrate PH & Nutrient levels FOR ALL THE TUBS. It also acts as just a general reservoir for the other tubs, so that it would take A LONG TIME for the level to drop.


Quote:

pftek said:It has nozzles that would refill my tubs with the proper nutrients, water, and ph level.




Right, and the nozzles/valves are always kept open. That way the water level in each tube will alway be level with each other, assuming they are all the same height. That's why it's important to have the nozzles so low down (bottom of the tank) as you can see in your PDF. Because it only works via gravity, so therefore if water level in one tank dropped bellow nozzle level, then the system is broken. valves always on the bottom and always open.

Quote:

pftek said:How does it know the PH level of each of the 3 other tubs? Couldn't they be very different?




It doesn't "know" what the PH of the other tubs is. Take a glass of water, and drop some buffer solution in it. Watch what happens. It spreads out. Same shit would happen with your system, but it would take a while. Thats why you need to do some hardcore initial calibration before you stick those plants in, so that way any and all future calibration would be minimal.

So yes initially, RIGHT after a calibration, you could check the PH in your controller and then in one of your tubs and they would in fact be different. However, over the course of say 1 hour, they would be the same. 

Quote:

pftek said:So if one tub is too high and another too low... I'd be screwed? Or does this not happen with a controller? would it know to only fill each 8 gallon tub to 6 gallons then stop? 




No, as long as those valves are on the bottom of each tub including the controller, the water level will remain constant throughout each tub. This is why it's nice to have a controller with a multi tub system, because you can control the level for each tank through one. All the other tubs would be just as full as it is.

So lets say for example your system is up and running - and your water level in your controller is a little on the low side. This means the water level in each tank is low too. So you pour water into your controller to the level you want, and the tanks will rise to that level as well. SO LONG AS THOSE VALVES ON THE BOTTOM STAY OPEN ALL THE TIME.

Quote:

pftek said:
Could it also drain all 3 tubs when I give the roots an air bath?




It could drain them, but I would then make an additional valve on the controller, also located at the same height as the other valves. Put it on the other side of the controller or in a convenient location (just on the bottom.) That way, when you want to drain it, just hook up a long hose leading to your bathroom floor drain. Turn the valve on and boom, drainage.

Quote:

pftek said:Also, the controller tub would physically have to be higher than the other tubs to get water to them?




NOOOO! This would in fact overflow the other tubs. Remember, if two bodies of water are connected, via a river/pipeline/etc those two bodies will adjust/remain to be at the same level. So as long as your tubs are hook up with those valves on the bottom, and they stay open all the time, as your plants drink your solution out of your plant tubs, the controller will feed solution to the tubs. THE WATER LEVEL IN EACH TUB WILL BE EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE OTHER. Remember, whatever water level your tub is at, your other tubs are at.

That's why this system is cool.

Quote:

pftek said:i wish I could just see this in action.



:shrug:





thank you thank you thank you.

Why would he install a water pump inside the controller as well? Is there a need for it? wouldn't i just have to fill the controller and it would fill the other tanks as well. Or is there another reason for it? like to force nutrients and ph in the other tubs?


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OfflineTomCollins


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Re: I'm trying to build a system like this one. HOW??? Help me understand. [Re: pftek]
    #312213 - 11/08/09 11:49 AM (7 years, 26 days ago)

Exactly. If that were the case then all the tubs should be connected, like a big circle. Then in the controller, for one nozzle/valve would be a pump. I imagine you would only really have that pump just for when you alter the solution chemically somehow, just to speed up the process and ensure adequate spreading.

You could also have a pump to drain the thing as well. Really doesn't matter. You could do the thing via gravity. If you decide to get a pump, don't go expensive. Go to a plumbing supply and buy a submersible flood pump. They're really heavy duty, but they're cheap, last forever, reliable and water can move freely through them even if it's not on. If the flow is too strong, no biggie, shave the impeller a bit with a hole saw - very easy to do. That's what I did to my flood pump.


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


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