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OfflineMr. Hands
Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 89
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
The whole one gram per watt thing
    #190723 - 01/30/09 12:26 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

If I have two 600 HPS's running in the flowering room then shouldn't I get 1,200 grams of material at the end of the flowering cycle?  That's about 2 1/2 pounds.  I cannot reach this mythic yield no matter what I do.  I usually get one ounce per 100 watts.  So, in a two 600 HPS setup I will get 12 ounces after an 8 week cycle. 

What gives?  I am using B.C. hydro solutions and following the directions.  My plants look green and lush.  The fruits look decent-sized.  My PH is good.  My bulbs are new (and the onces with the added blue spectrum no less).  I'm not an idiot.  Why am I only getting 1/4 of the yield that I should?


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InvisibleDr. Penguin
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Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 1,036
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Re: The whole one gram per watt thing [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #190729 - 01/30/09 12:44 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

1 gram per watt is like a unicorn... Let me start over.

Very few people I have seen are actually capable of yielding one gram per watt. It is a very high standard that I think can only really be achieved in vertical growing chambers and micro-grows. Think of your grams per watt ratio like a game of golf, you're really only playing against yourself. Every time you decide to change your setup, think about efficiency and slowly but surely, your G/watt will increase.

One other thing to note. Don't forget about time in your equation. Just G/watt alone isn't enough, (#grows/year)*G/watt is more appropriate.
If you yield 3 pounds in 3 big grows but your friend yields 3.5 pounds in 4 smaller grows with the same setup in one year, he is more efficient than you even though his G/watt alone is lower.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,163
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Re: The whole one gram per watt thing [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #190925 - 01/31/09 03:09 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

ugh....

Reaching a gram per watt isn't that hard if you grow SoG/SCROG. Annom on here reaches a gram per watt or at least did with his first grow log. I believe my Double Strawberry Diesels were just shy of 1gram per watt from seed. My second run of cheese which was 12 clones and 4 seeds I believe was around there too.

Theres a lot of crap behind the 1gram per watt quota though like when do you not count popcorn buds? How dry are these buds ? (bud is usually 21% dry weight andyou will only reach this weight with curing otherwise ull be round 23-25% "dry weight" from your fresh weight)

Penguin is completely right though, effeciency matters most. I think my next grow im going to grow trees.


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OfflineJellyhashman
Registered: 01/31/09
Posts: 7
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: The whole one gram per watt thing [Re: captain.koons]
    #190986 - 01/31/09 11:55 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

1 Gram per watt is easy it ain't no myth., What most people don't account for is the size of there room. For example if you put 1200watt in an area over 2m squared you would never reach 1g per watt because of the low intensity of the light (well they might but it wont be of any quality). And then there's the Genetics of the plant to take into consideration as well as how many plants and how big there are.


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OfflineAnnom
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 316
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 10 months, 28 days
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Re: The whole one gram per watt thing [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #191000 - 01/31/09 01:07 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

It sure is possible, but only with some strains/genetics and very good conditions. It definitely is more easy with strains that have a flowering period of 12-14 weeks. This does not mean that you have the best yield per time period though, as Dr. Penguin already stated: "Just G/watt alone isn't enough, (#grows/year)*G/watt is more appropriate."

Quote:

Annom on here reaches a gram per watt or at least did with his first grow log.



True, we reached the 1g/W once (in 9 grows) in 9 weeks of flowering under 400W HPS, but we did include 50g of somewhat fluffy flowers. All my other grows are between 0.7 and 0.9 g/W.

A scrog increases the yield in my experience, but genetics are also very important. I just don't think I could ever get 1g/W from the genetics I have in my grow room right now. Beginners should aim for 0.5 g/W and forget about the 1g/W thing. Actually finishing a grow is an accomplishment alone.


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OfflineNibin

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 21
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: The whole one gram per watt thing [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #191006 - 01/31/09 02:40 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Hands said:
If I have two 600 HPS's running in the flowering room then shouldn't I get 1,200 grams of material at the end of the flowering cycle?  That's about 2 1/2 pounds.  I cannot reach this mythic yield no matter what I do.  I usually get one ounce per 100 watts.  So, in a two 600 HPS setup I will get 12 ounces after an 8 week cycle. 

What gives?  I am using B.C. hydro solutions and following the directions.  My plants look green and lush.  The fruits look decent-sized.  My PH is good.  My bulbs are new (and the onces with the added blue spectrum no less).  I'm not an idiot.  Why am I only getting 1/4 of the yield that I should?




You are certainly doing somethig wrong. While 1gr/watt requires that you grow well even not growing ideally should get you pretty close.

It all depends on:

Genetics: Both commercial strain and specifically selected genetics if you are working from clones

Seeds or clones: Clones will give you smaller plants but you can put more into the same space. So you end up with more plants with less bud per plant but more plants and a higher yield.

Growing conditions: You say your plants are green and look healthy so it probably isn't nutrient deficiency. But are you limiting growth some other way?

Common mistakes (IMHO) that are often made are:
  • Using a pot too small for the total growing time. This will be detrimental in the long run.
  • Loosing lumen outpoot due to poor quality reflectors or not covering the sides of your growing area with reflective material
  • Over high/low temps. Temps too low slow the plant metabolism, temps too high and the plant looses efficiency due to photorespiration occurring too much (a problem with C3 plants)
  • Overenthusiastic pruning. I personally never prune a single leaf, but even if you choose to prune, overdoing it will lower your yield. Remember, the leaf is the plants foodsource. Don't worry about leaves being shaded and not doing their job. Plants have control mechanisms that will kill a leaf if it is a net consumer of energy instead of a producer.
  • Not maximizing use of space. Depending on how big you allow your plants to get you should have more or less plants


The list can go on and on. How about you describe your setup a bit more in depth and let's see if we can find where you can improve things.


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OfflineBlazedChillin
Registered: 01/31/09
Posts: 3
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: The whole one gram per watt thing [Re: Nibin]
    #191049 - 01/31/09 06:49 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Yea I am with everyone else on this it is possible, With a 250w hps and a dished scrog setup I used to average 3/4gpw.


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OfflineMr. Hands
Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 89
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: The whole one gram per watt thing [Re: Nibin]
    #191072 - 01/31/09 07:47 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Nibin said:
Genetics: Both commercial strain and specifically selected genetics if you are working from clones




I can't verify the genetics.  All of my babies are clones of a mother that came from a friend of a friend.  So, who knows what it is.  I must say that it is incredibly potent though.  Everybody raves about it.

Quote:

Nibin said:
Seeds or clones: Clones will give you smaller plants but you can put more into the same space.




My plants vegetate beautifully and quickly.  I sometimes even have to hack them down a little during the vegetative phase.  They continue to get significantly bigger during fruiting phase as well.


Quote:

Nibin said:
1.  Using a pot too small for the total growing time. This will be detrimental in the long run.





I am doing a hydroponic ebb and flow system in a tray.  There are no pots.  Only water and nutrients.  I am following the directions on the nutrient solution labels.

Quote:

Nibin said:
2.  Loosing lumen outpoot due to poor quality reflectors or not covering the sides of your growing area with reflective material




My reflector, bulb, and ballast are all top of the line.  Admittedly, the sides of my trays don't have any reflective stuff around them but I am not losing much light on the sides.  My 600 Watt HPS's are about 6 inches away from my plants.  My tray is 40 inches by 40 inches.  So, my lumens per foot is optimal.

Quote:

Nibin said:
3. Over high/low temps. Temps too low slow the plant metabolism, temps too high and the plant looses efficiency due to photorespiration occurring too much (a problem with C3 plants)




My temps are perfect.


Quote:

Nibin said:
4.  Overenthusiastic pruning.





I pretty much let the plants do their thing.

I don't know...plants just don't seem to like me I guess.  :shrug:


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OfflineNibin

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 21
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: The whole one gram per watt thing [Re: Mr. Hands]
    #191077 - 01/31/09 08:31 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Well, if you are cutting every two months or so and only getting 0.25 g/watt something has to be wrong.

The first thing I would try is switching genetics. Try growing a mother or two from seed or get some clones that you know for a fact are from a decent yielding set of genetics.

If that doesn't solve the problem it would be time to revisit your setup and find out what is going wrong. I have cut 380 gr from a 400w MH/HPS setup before now on soil without doing anything fancy. No SCROG or LST, just a standard 400w bulb for a 1m2 homebox on prefertilized soil with added nutrients for flowering.

I have seen yields of 2kg every two months with two 600w bulbs on a double adjust-a-wings but that was using rails to move the lights about over 3m2.


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InvisibleDr. Penguin
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Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 1,036
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Re: The whole one gram per watt thing [Re: Nibin]
    #191100 - 01/31/09 10:56 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

:picdidnthappen:

Lets start a bit of a contest. If anyone here can prove, beyond all reasonable doubt, that they can yield 1g/watt with a light equal too or greater than 400w I will give them a prize worth no less than 50$. (Annom and other mods excluded. :wink: )

I just don't believe that kind of efficiency is normal in 9/10 grows. In my opinion you would need to grow in the same system with the same genetics upwards of ten times in order to yield like that; and honestly who wants to smoke the same strain ten grows in a row?

Quote:

Seeds or clones: Clones will give you smaller plants but you can put more into the same space. So you end up with more plants with less bud per plant but more plants and a higher yield.



This absolutely false. Clones are the exact same plant as the parent, period. It's all a matter of growing conditions, if you flower after 2 weeks of veg, your clones will be small, if you veg for two months, you will grow trees.


--------------------
* My Cab
* How to Build a Grow Tent
* Fan Speed Control 101
* Easy Butane Extraction

Not responsible for advice not taken.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,163
Trusted Cultivator
Re: The whole one gram per watt thing [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #191117 - 01/31/09 11:52 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------


TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!


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OfflineNibin

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 21
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: The whole one gram per watt thing [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #191289 - 02/01/09 05:20 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Dr. Penguin said:

Quote:

Seeds or clones: Clones will give you smaller plants but you can put more into the same space. So you end up with more plants with less bud per plant but more plants and a higher yield.



This absolutely false. Clones are the exact same plant as the parent, period. It's all a matter of growing conditions, if you flower after 2 weeks of veg, your clones will be small, if you veg for two months, you will grow trees.




Well, normally, at least with everyone I know that grows, if you grow from seeds, you start flowering with bigger plants that if you started with clones.

I admit I might have worded that incorrectly as it is not so much the fact that it is a clone or not, just that with a clone you are at flowering leaf density with smaller plants (in my experience).

Let me rephrase:

When growing from clones you can start flowering with smaller plants so you can fit more in the same space. You can, of course let them grow bigger if you chose so.

Better? :grin:

PS: I can't get pics of the big grow, I have moved cities. But the guy really knew what he was doing.

I'll try and get the blurry pics of my setup off the phone, but I was not on the 1g/watt mark, just under it. 385/370 g in two grows under a 400w in soil, with a Jack Herer/Black Domina cross.


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