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Offlinecdmc1984
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Registered: 12/19/12
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Last seen: 5 months, 40 minutes
lighting thread little dated
    #833129 - 05/18/18 05:32 PM (5 months, 3 days ago)

I think this fluorescent and HID is a little dated and needs some up to date information I drop by every now and then been a member for about five years if not more now and have not seen any new updates about LED's.  I have seen really good results using LED's in other agriculture grow projects and cutting growth time in half sometimes better depending on the plant species and I know some of you out there use LED's.


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OfflineLuko
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Re: lighting thread little dated [Re: cdmc1984]
    #833130 - 05/18/18 05:55 PM (5 months, 3 days ago)

I'm a new grower and new to this forum.  I want to do an indoor grow and would like to have some input about what lights are best. (I'm only doing one plant for starters) I had someone tell me about the CSL lights and was wondering if they are really good for indoor use or if i should find something else.  What would be the best type of light for indoor growing and what wattage should i use.

thank you and have a good weekend.


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Offlinecdmc1984
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Registered: 12/19/12
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Re: lighting thread little dated [Re: Luko]
    #833131 - 05/18/18 06:10 PM (5 months, 3 days ago)

Im old school and IMHO so right off for just one plant I would go 250 HID or even grow it outside.  but even a 250W would be a bit of over kill and you will have to deal with overheating problems. I think LEDs would be good also if anyone would post proper light combination and correct number of each color LED info so we could nail the spectrum down.


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OfflineRider420
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Registered: 06/21/17
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Re: lighting thread little dated [Re: cdmc1984]
    #833132 - 05/18/18 08:53 PM (5 months, 2 days ago)

Please don't take this wrong but there is a lot of misinformation about LED lights made by less then honest people who are selling crap.


https://globalnews.ca/news/4206151/aurora-cannabis-to-buy-medreleaf/


Quote:

Aurora Cannabis Inc. has a friendly deal to acquire MedReleaf Corp. in an all-stock transaction valued at $3.2 billion, creating a company capable of producing more than 570,000 kilograms of marijuana per year.




Aurora spends millions on lighting and their R&D does compare LED verses HID lights but they still only use HPS lights. Ya you did not misread that 570,000 kg of weed per year. :blazed: And believe me if they could reduce the cost or time it takes to get more weed they would!


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Offlineashfiken
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Re: lighting thread little dated [Re: Rider420]
    #833135 - 05/19/18 07:10 AM (5 months, 2 days ago)

The biggest reason for that is the ridiculous scale they grow on.
led is the newest and therefore most expensive tech to outfit a growspace with.
These huge commercial grows can't do that, too much overhead/upfront cost:
The average basement grower however, can spend 1000$ and have the best light around -good for 15 years with no bulb replacement. And grow enough meds for themselves and I'm sure a bit more.
Refer to my diy led thread.

Cheers


--------------------
Hmmm

I'm from shroomery


Edited by ashfiken (05/19/18 07:22 AM)


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Offlinecdmc1984
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Registered: 12/19/12
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Re: lighting thread little dated [Re: ashfiken]
    #833136 - 05/19/18 12:33 PM (5 months, 2 days ago)

Shroomery I wrote up a grain sterilization tek over there good site!  But back to the point there is a whole spectrum of different colors of lights the our star the sun puts off but what color does cannabis need for proper production? I mean for example with LED light 70% blue, 20% red, and 10% yellow. Like you said though there are people out there doing stuff but are the showing data and why is it not in a write up here?


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OfflineRider420
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Registered: 06/21/17
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Re: lighting thread little dated [Re: ashfiken]
    #833182 - 05/21/18 10:03 AM (5 months, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

ashfiken said:
The biggest reason for that is the ridiculous scale they grow on.
led is the newest and therefore most expensive tech to outfit a growspace with.
These huge commercial grows can't do that, too much overhead/upfront cost:
The average basement grower however, can spend 1000$ and have the best light around -good for 15 years with no bulb replacement. And grow enough meds for themselves and I'm sure a bit more.
Refer to my diy led thread.

Cheers




Sorry buddy but the facts remain HPS is still more cost effective for growing cannabis then LED lights. Remember cannabis companies have billions to spend and if LED lights were better they would be using them.

FYI I have been hearing about how great LED lights were since 2000 yet everyone i know who has tried them including myself who also ran HID lights first say even the newest LED lights simply don't produce as much cannabis with the same wattage, never mind the greedy sellers who claim you need only half the amount of wattage for LED lights relative to HID lighting.




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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: lighting thread little dated [Re: Rider420]
    #833183 - 05/21/18 12:39 PM (5 months, 7 hours ago)

I started out with HID lighting years ago. Played with a few LED panels over the years as well. Most LED grow lights suck no doubt about it. But this Advanced LED 350 XML I picked up a little over a year ago is a bad ass. It only uses 305 watts turned up. And in all honesty a 400 watt HPS doesn't compare in fact I average just under 50 grams of my old 600 HPS yeilds.

I'm not one to go all in on what commercial growers are doing.


--------------------
:getstoned:


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OfflineRider420
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Registered: 06/21/17
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Re: lighting thread little dated [Re: ashfiken] * 1
    #833199 - 05/22/18 11:07 AM (4 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

ashfiken said:
The biggest reason for that is the ridiculous scale they grow on.
led is the newest and therefore most expensive tech to outfit a growspace with.
These huge commercial grows can't do that, too much overhead/upfront cost:
The average basement grower however, can spend 1000$ and have the best light around -good for 15 years with no bulb replacement. And grow enough meds for themselves and I'm sure a bit more.
Refer to my diy led thread.

Cheers




https://insights.regencylighting.com/understanding-led-lifespan-how-long-do-led-lamps-and-fixtures-actually-last

Quote:

What is average rated life?
As defined in our downloadable lighting glossary, average rated life is:
"An average rating, in hours, indicating when 50 percent of a large group of lamps has failed (operated at nominal lamp voltage and current). Manufacturers use three hours per start for fluorescent lamps and 10 hours per start for HID lamps when performing lamp life testing procedures. Every lamp type has a unique mortality curve that depicts its average rated life."
This is the de facto metric for measuring the life expectancy of traditional light sources. LEDs, however, follow a different method for measuring life expectancy called lumen maintenance.
What is lumen maintenance?
Lumen maintenance is an approach of measuring the light output (lumens) of a brand new light source and comparing that with its light output after a certain period of time. L70 and L50 are examples of lumen maintenance –– benchmarks for when 70 or 50 percent of a lamp or fixture's total light output remains.
What is L70?
In 2011, LEDs Magazine published a thorough article on L70 and lumen maintenance. In it, they explain:
"Rated lumen-maintenance life is measured in hours with associated percentage of light output, noted as Lp. In other words, L70 of 30,000 hours means that the tested LEDs produce 70% of the initial light output at 30,000 hours. If an LED has L50 of 30,000 hours, its lumen output decays faster than one with L70 of 30,000 hours."
We've written about a lot of this stuff before, specifically in this article about LED warranties. What makes the recent DOE report interesting, and worth writing about and re-hashing some of this, is the pointedness of its determination that the way we think about LED lifespan ought to be totally different than the way we've traditionally thought about the lifespans (read: life ratings) of conventional lighting products.





https://www.growlights.ca/growlights/hid-bulbs/metal-halide-bulbs/400w-grow-metal-halide-bulb.html


Quote:

1. High output,balanced spectrum is engineered specifically to promote vigorous plant growth.
2. Robust stainless steel armature versus nickel plated steel,far stronger and longer lasting.
3. Optimized spectrum (Violet and Blue) and high PAR (Photosynthetic Active Radiation) to enhance vegetative growth
4. Extra-low lumen depreciation: maintaining over 90% of initial lumen output after running for 5,000 hours.
5. Fusion Bright bulbs work well with both Magnetic and Digital Ballasts.





Cold hard truth LED lights loose 10% of their light after only 5000 hours the same lumen loss curve of a MH bulb. BTW this is when I replace my MH and HPS bulbs. The HPS bulbs cost $16.99 and the MH bulb cost $15.99 Canadian to replace a 400 watt LED system is $424 at the same store.

I'm sure you guys can now do the math if you so choose or just keep believing LED lights are better.


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OfflineRider420
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Registered: 06/21/17
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Last seen: 2 days, 7 hours
Re: lighting thread little dated [Re: Stoneth]
    #833200 - 05/22/18 11:08 AM (4 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Stoneth said:
I started out with HID lighting years ago. Played with a few LED panels over the years as well. Most LED grow lights suck no doubt about it. But this Advanced LED 350 XML I picked up a little over a year ago is a bad ass. It only uses 305 watts turned up. And in all honesty a 400 watt HPS doesn't compare in fact I average just under 50 grams of my old 600 HPS yeilds.

I'm not one to go all in on what commercial growers are doing.




Yup but what is its lumen loss curve? Check the above post.

I do believe that you got 50 grams under a 600 HPS FYI I've gotten 70 grams under a 70 watt HPS. Perhaps it was not the light that was the limiting factor eh?


Edited by Rider420 (05/22/18 11:25 AM)


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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: lighting thread little dated [Re: Rider420]
    #833205 - 05/22/18 03:28 PM (4 months, 30 days ago)

Lumens are worthless measurement when it comes to plants.  But according to my. lumen meter it, loss none in 18 months of running.
Also would like to note. HID bulbs worth growing with cost well over 20 bucks. Those cheap Home Depot and Lowes bulbs aren't worth shit. Just saying!
And for those that want to know PAR is the relavent  measurement when it comes to plants. They don't see lumens, humans do.:smirk:

FYI you should stop trying to argue and stir shit. I post my finding/opinions based on my personal experiences.


--------------------
:getstoned:


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OfflineRider420
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Registered: 06/21/17
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Re: lighting thread little dated [Re: Stoneth]
    #833209 - 05/22/18 07:47 PM (4 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Stoneth said:
Lumens are worthless measurement when it comes to plants.  But according to my. lumen meter it, loss none in 18 months of running.
Also would like to note. HID bulbs worth growing with cost well over 20 bucks. Those cheap Home Depot and Lowes bulbs aren't worth shit. Just saying!
And for those that want to know PAR is the relavent  measurement when it comes to plants. They don't see lumens, humans do.:smirk:

FYI you should stop trying to argue and stir shit. I post my finding/opinions based on my personal experiences.




Reread my post about HID lights NO#3 3. Optimized spectrum (Violet and Blue) and high PAR (Photosynthetic Active Radiation) to enhance vegetative growth.

https://www.growlights.ca/media/MH400WBT63-4K.pdf


BTW I do base my fact on personal experiences want to see them?


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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: lighting thread little dated [Re: Rider420] * 1
    #833212 - 05/22/18 10:49 PM (4 months, 29 days ago)

Yeah sure show us some of your work. "Your work" not some link to articles or pictures of someone else's.


--------------------
:getstoned:


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OfflinePotsandPans
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Registered: 03/11/18
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Last seen: 4 months, 26 days
Re: lighting thread little dated [Re: Stoneth]
    #833237 - 05/25/18 12:39 AM (4 months, 27 days ago)

There's a guy on the forums at ilgm.com that's real knoelefable about lights I've learned a ton by lurking in that forum.

I wonder if this is changing there are diy cob led lights people are building you can get about 1watt per $1 If you build it yourself but that's one true from the wall watt not these equivalent ratings all the Amazon led lights have lije a mars hydro 2 "300" watt is a 129watt or whatever it is.

PAR is the measurement in question I think mind you I'm a total noob in his first grow, but I've been studying ilgm like I studied the shroomery for months just soaking it up.

Supposedly.... These new leds save about 30-40% electrictiy cost, because of higher efficiency and bc so much less energy is becoming heat, also the color spectrum is customizable also the PAR is supposedly 3x the amount as equivalent lumen HPS/MH. Physically more photons to be used in the same amount of light.

They're hella expensive $1000 for a 1000 watt (true watt) and they're very new, I think this LEDs being badass since 2000 may not be true I've read a lot about how even the kind led lights aren't worth half what they say.

But drbn32 over on ilgm is a smart dude and had a whole diy led thread.

Currently I have an Apollo 1000w MH because like an old big dirty diesel engine I know it works and it'll produce top shelf but wow it puts out so much more heat now that I've turned it up, the future is LEDs theres no doubt I'll be building my own LED light if I continue indoor stealth growing


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Offlineashfiken
im home
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Registered: 09/25/14
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Re: lighting thread little dated [Re: Rider420]
    #833246 - 05/25/18 10:04 AM (4 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Rider420 said:
Quote:

ashfiken said:
The biggest reason for that is the ridiculous scale they grow on.
led is the newest and therefore most expensive tech to outfit a growspace with.
These huge commercial grows can't do that, too much overhead/upfront cost:
The average basement grower however, can spend 1000$ and have the best light around -good for 15 years with no bulb replacement. And grow enough meds for themselves and I'm sure a bit more.
Refer to my diy led thread.

Cheers




https://insights.regencylighting.com/understanding-led-lifespan-how-long-do-led-lamps-and-fixtures-actually-last

Quote:

What is average rated life?
As defined in our downloadable lighting glossary, average rated life is:
"An average rating, in hours, indicating when 50 percent of a large group of lamps has failed (operated at nominal lamp voltage and current). Manufacturers use three hours per start for fluorescent lamps and 10 hours per start for HID lamps when performing lamp life testing procedures. Every lamp type has a unique mortality curve that depicts its average rated life."
This is the de facto metric for measuring the life expectancy of traditional light sources. LEDs, however, follow a different method for measuring life expectancy called lumen maintenance.
What is lumen maintenance?
Lumen maintenance is an approach of measuring the light output (lumens) of a brand new light source and comparing that with its light output after a certain period of time. L70 and L50 are examples of lumen maintenance –– benchmarks for when 70 or 50 percent of a lamp or fixture's total light output remains.
What is L70?
In 2011, LEDs Magazine published a thorough article on L70 and lumen maintenance. In it, they explain:
"Rated lumen-maintenance life is measured in hours with associated percentage of light output, noted as Lp. In other words, L70 of 30,000 hours means that the tested LEDs produce 70% of the initial light output at 30,000 hours. If an LED has L50 of 30,000 hours, its lumen output decays faster than one with L70 of 30,000 hours."
We've written about a lot of this stuff before, specifically in this article about LED warranties. What makes the recent DOE report interesting, and worth writing about and re-hashing some of this, is the pointedness of its determination that the way we think about LED lifespan ought to be totally different than the way we've traditionally thought about the lifespans (read: life ratings) of conventional lighting products.





https://www.growlights.ca/growlights/hid-bulbs/metal-halide-bulbs/400w-grow-metal-halide-bulb.html


Quote:

1. High output,balanced spectrum is engineered specifically to promote vigorous plant growth.
2. Robust stainless steel armature versus nickel plated steel,far stronger and longer lasting.
3. Optimized spectrum (Violet and Blue) and high PAR (Photosynthetic Active Radiation) to enhance vegetative growth
4. Extra-low lumen depreciation: maintaining over 90% of initial lumen output after running for 5,000 hours.
5. Fusion Bright bulbs work well with both Magnetic and Digital Ballasts.





Cold hard truth LED lights loose 10% of their light after only 5000 hours the same lumen loss curve of a MH bulb. BTW this is when I replace my MH and HPS bulbs. The HPS bulbs cost $16.99 and the MH bulb cost $15.99 Canadian to replace a 400 watt LED system is $424 at the same store.

I'm sure you guys can now do the math if you so choose or just keep believing LED lights are better.




Lul great job mang, none of those sites contain any scientific data or interpretation.
Just statements of their said "truth" with no lab tested backing.
Also what do you think mh'bulbs do after 30k hours? They continue to degrade FAST.
Leds do not, and you win by dialing in spectrum custom and saving on power for the same amount of worthwhile par of a bigger wattage hid.
Throw up something else besides "fusion bulbs" info and grow lights.ca lul
What a joke for sources.
Do you know what a umol is?
That is the measurement I want to see.
Efficacy of the lamp?
Dude hids are great, but they will soon be old news.
It's okay that it works for you but a real great lamp can be built that will operate more efficiently then any hid on the market.
If you started talking cmh I may have listened to you.
But chill mang and find some real scientific data not statements that validate your opinion.

Cheers


--------------------
Hmmm

I'm from shroomery


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