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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal Flag
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Re: The [Re: Inverted]
    #359914 - 02/08/10 01:11 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

  Plus, as i said before, this debate is entirely un-needed as plants dont care how many lumens.




my god you have an interesting interpretation of reality. I was under the impression that if the post had my name at the top then I was the one who said it. I'm sorry though, it must have been you because you're so incredible.

Quote:

Kine said:
Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
even amongst the scientific community theres a grand debate over photosynthesis and artificial lighting. In one camp they say that plants utilize the full spectrum from high frequency ultraviolet all the way down to far infra-red and that growing without the full broad-spectrum will yield deficient results. The other camp looks at graphs of peak photosynthetic efficiency and claims that since chlorophyll, xanthophyll and carotenoids all have their specific peak wavelength that putting energy into producing light at any other wavelength is just a waste of energy. I wish I had an answer for you, but professional biologists and botanists haven't even agreed on an answer yet. :shrug:




Interesting.  Hadent heard this... i had thought they came down to refining it to "Par" is the useable light... but then again; i dont know what "Par" consists of lol...




Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
Carotenoids, xanthophyll and chlorophyll are merely the pigments within the chloroplasts (photosynthetic organelles) that absorb the light. scientists have figured out down to the single nanometer exactly which wavelengths are absorbed best by each of these pigments. this is the "PAR" that kine referred to, PAR standing for Photosynthetically active radiation. 
The problem here is that although there are certain peaks where the pigments absorb best, they still do work at other wavelengths. just because they're best at one color doesn't mean that all the other colors are useless :shrug: see this graph for an example.


Lumens are useless in this debate anyway since they in no way have any bearing on the activation of photosynthetic organelles. the only necessary measurement is the intensity of the light source.






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OfflineKine
Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 374
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: The [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #360328 - 02/08/10 10:44 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)



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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: The [Re: Kine]
    #360329 - 02/08/10 10:45 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

linking me to other people's conversations is not the same as making a point


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OfflineKine
Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 374
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: The [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #360399 - 02/09/10 12:47 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
linking me to other people's conversations is not the same as making a point




No shit Sherlock! Not trying to make any point... just posting links.  Get over yourself... not everything is directed to you.  Douchebag...


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: The [Re: Kine]
    #360401 - 02/09/10 12:52 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

the quick reply feature begs to differ


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Offlinepha3r0
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Registered: 12/21/09
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Re: The [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #360623 - 02/09/10 09:30 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Is it possible that lumens have a lot to do with foliar penetration. We normally would say HPS or other HID lamps have better penetration, could that be just because the light they emit is more 'concentrated', for lack of a scientific term.


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"The proverb warns that, "You should not bite the hand that feeds you." But maybe you should, if it prevents you from feeding yourself."
- Thomas Szasz

"if you arent good with electricity dont go touching it...ive electrocuted myself twice...its no fun"
- mhbound


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OfflineTrueHerbCrystal
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Re: The Results [Re: DungenessDank]
    #360882 - 02/09/10 07:29 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I just wanted to make a post thanking everyone who enjoyed my little light experiment....such as DungenessDank, Harry_B, and of course, Inverted. Thanks for reading and responding guys, it means a lot.

And I wanted to respond specifically what you said Inverted...

Quote:

Inverted said:

All I know is CFL's work great for a lot of people, but HID's will always be a step ahead.

Plus it's a lot nicer having 1 bulb emit all the light that a baker's dozen of High-Watt CFL's produce.  1 light, 1 cord, cleaner setup.

Laying CFL's horizontally will make a big difference.  I used to hang them vertical and lost a LOT of light.  Now when I use them, I like to hang them on their sides.  It is worth the adjustment.




Oh yeah, there's no doubt in my mind that HID or any HPS lights are way better than CFL bulbs. The difference is really night and day (Ha! I love puns....). And according to some charts I read, they are much more efficient in terms of the amount of light produced per watt.

The only reason I use CFL's is that they are so cheap right now. I'm buying some 2 packs of two 27 watt 5000K CFL's at Home Depot for $1.50 a pack! Thats right, $0.75 a bulb! Its ridiculous how cheap some of these are, especially considering how complex the technology is (micro-electronics, the use of Mecury to make light, the thin spiral glass bulb, etc.). But in the long run, buying a $100 HID lamp is a much better alternative.

And as for the horizontal orientation...I'm actually planning on buying some 1"x2" wood strips and building my own box to fit bulbs in horizontally. Then I'll hang that in my closet instead of those inefficient clamp lamps, which I thought would be really good (but I now know better).

Laying side is the best side.

Thanks again for reading my results,
~ TrueHerbCrystaL ~


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InvisibleInverted
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Registered: 06/01/08
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Re: The Results [Re: TrueHerbCrystal] * 1
    #361000 - 02/09/10 08:24 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I was in no way knocking on CFL's though, just to clear that up.

I actually have a secret crush on them.  I'm the type of guy to do something right, and also a separate experiment using NO DOLLARS, and when you put your mind to it, you can create some highly efficient "ghetto" grows.  I used to use a 175MH for vegging, but it actually stretched my plants out more than using 6 CFL's of 30, and 42w so I use those now instead. :lol:

It's how you use them, and reflect the light they emit.  I kept a flat white sheet of cardboard 1 inch above my 6 light "cradle" and it reflected a lot more visible light back down onto the canopy of the plants.  Keeping the plant(s) enclosed in a box of some sort also makes use of all the emitted light.  If I left the door open, then closed it, while looking at the amount of light reflecting off of the nearby fan leaves; I noticed a huge increase in the brightness coming off of the plant when the door closed.

I'm just high and rambling now but I hope I made a point in there somewhere.  Oh yeah, and keeping the lights within the optimal range (2-4") is very important.  You want to keep them as close as possible, without causing heat stress.  For me, 3-4 inches worked the best.  They grew incredibly tight nodes, but didn't experience ANY heat stress with this run.


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OfflineLacombe Grown
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Re: The Results [Re: Inverted]
    #444578 - 07/10/10 04:11 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

ya im using the big 64w CFL's and they work great . started out with two bulbs, and there was an obvious difference when i added 2 more alotta people talk down on em but i find them to veg good  bushyy


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Offlinefungi
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Registered: 05/03/10
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Re: The [Re: Lacombe Grown]
    #445708 - 07/13/10 01:45 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Hum this debate is interesting considering LED's. Instead of making single diode LED's, they often make multiple diode LED's. What that means is you had X area, you could put 1 diode in X, but now they have the technology to put 3, 20, 50 diodes in X.

Because the diodes are so close together, it essentially is a single light source. I saw a picture of a LED Array, which seemed to have 16 diodes in a square configuration. I'm not sure of the scale, but it is most likely small.

So if this theory is true, then if I have a 1 diode LED that has 1000 lumens, and a 10 diode LED would be 10,000 lumens. I think this theory is being applied with LED research currently.


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