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OfflineMastaKa0s
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Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 6
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Lighting Debate...
    #538707 - 03/21/11 02:55 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

It's more of a lighting argument...
I'm currently running 4 55w CFL's(200w eqiv.) in a grow box roughly 3.5ft wide, 4.5 ft tall. the box is covered in reflective aluminum tape.

the point of this is i have 4 plants in it that are in 1 gal buckets. (hempy style, straight perlite) the tallest being about 8in tall and the shortest being abt 6.5in tall. my buddy is sayin that those lights wont support flower, im sayin they will but i need someone to settle the argument... I mean with the way the plants are lookin now they should be o.k. through harvest. but it never hurts to get a second opinion.


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Invisiblecoda


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,734
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: MastaKa0s]
    #538768 - 03/21/11 07:19 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not a CFL grower but I think you want 100 watts of CFL power (not the equivalent rating) per plant?  I would tend to agree with your friend here though in that your flowering cab is a little underpowered.  Not to say you couldn't complete a grow, but you would definitely have a better yield and buds with more light in there.


--------------------


MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.


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OfflineMastaKa0s
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Registered: 04/29/09
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Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: coda]
    #538781 - 03/21/11 07:36 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

I totally 100% agree with you on if i had better light id get better yield.
and i was under the impression that a 55w CFL(200w equivalent) = 200w of a regular flourescent bulb? If anyone could help us understand this better i would greatly appreciate it.

but until im actually proven that the amount of light sucks i think i'll be o.k.
theres little space in between nodes, been deleafing all the fan leaves that are blockin stuff out. and all the different stems are Exploding with growth, they go from skeleton looking plants to bushy and cant see stem in 2-3days... but this is my first hydro attempt so i dont mind letting someone with experience kick in and school me.. lol


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Offlinelostinbq
!!!STARNGE!!!!


Registered: 04/25/10
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Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: MastaKa0s]
    #538783 - 03/21/11 08:10 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

i have started out with cfl's and i will have to agree with coda, i just got a small 150 watt hps for christmas from my wife, well my box is 2ft x 2ft x-well my box is 4ft tall but has a modified lid of cardboard to let air exchange but anyway i used 6 26 wat daylights(witch i think veges plants fine and am still using) and i was using 6-8 26 watt(100 watt equ) and 2 42 watt(150 watt equ) 37k spectrum and the buds where awesome except they where a bit airy as they say but omfg it was still some bomb smoke. i picked up the 150 watt hps for only 70 bills shipped to my door cos i looked for a special on the internet and did not have to pay shipping. o yea and all i would have in my box at the most during flowering would be 2 plants. i noticed when i put a 3rd in they took an extra 2 weeks to finish. i did hook it up for my DWC project and omg there is a huge difference in penetration as compared to the cfl's with my bushy plant the cfl's did not reach the bottom as where the 150 watt hps got to the bottom(not the best light to the bottom but it was better) i just got a female after i lost my mother and have been trying to get another with the limited space i have so i will be using clones(i hear it will work best)for this time around and i wil see if there was any difference at all. so it can be done, your buds may be dank but i guarantee they will be a bit airy. id get more in there if you can or unless this is your first time growing like it was for me just completing the cycle first should prove enough data to make a better decision.
on another note, check the grow logs and you will see that cfl's can produce good results under the right conditions.

edit: STOP CUTTING THE FANS IF YOU ARE USEING CFL'S, THEY ARE YOUR PLANTS POWER SOURCE AND YOU WILL GET EVEN LESSER RESULTS. PLZ STOP I FOUND OUT THE HARD WAY.


--------------------
Everyone are you ready for doom,
Because I've blackened the sun,
And I've bloodied the moon.
I bring gloom when I step in the room,
With the fumes of a tomb.
flowers bloom when Im taken away
:rofldrunk:


Edited by lostinbq (03/21/11 08:12 PM)


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OfflineKaptKid
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 5,506
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Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: MastaKa0s]
    #538792 - 03/21/11 09:12 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Don't look at fan leaves as blocking light but as solar panels collecting power for the whole plant.


Just what I think. No links to back that up.


--------------------
Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.


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Invisibleagmotes165
That Guy
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 1,552
Loc: Southeastern U.S.
Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: lostinbq]
    #538795 - 03/21/11 09:20 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Well by doing a little bit of research, I found THIS ARTICLE which states that cannabis can flower successfully in 3000-5000 footcandles (fc). Using google,

1 fc = 10.76391 lux.

This works out to 32,292 - 53,820 lux. Lux is a measure of luminous intensity, and is defined as :

1 lux = 1 lumen / 1 sq. meter

I'm gonna assume that your grow area is square. So the area would be :

3.5ft x 3.5ft = 12.25 sq.ft.

Via google again:

12.25 sq.ft. = 1.13806224 sq. meters

So then by multiplying your lux requirements by your grow area...you can determine how many lumens of light you need in order to support flowering:

1.12806224 sq.m. x (32,292 - 53,820 lux) = (36,428 - 60,712 lumens)

So you need between 36,500 and 60,500 lumens in order to support flowering. Now by looking up 55W CFLs of all kind it seems to be the general rule of thumb that they output roughly 65 lumens per watt. By dividing the lumen requirment by the output of the bulb, you can determine the number of ACTUAL watts of CFL lighting you would need.

(36,500 - 60,500 lumens) / 65 lumens per watt = (562 - 931 Watts)

So if you are using 55W bulbs, then you need b/w 11 and 17 of those bulbs in order to properly support flowering.

PLEASE NOTE: This calculation is based on research math only, and only applies for 55W CFL bulbs. I used 26W CFL's, and with those, you would need roughly 21 to 35 bulbs to get adequate lighting. The website also sites that in order to penetrate to the lower leaves/buds and really fill the plant out...indoor growers will run the light intensity up to around 9000-10,000 fc which is 96,875 - 107,639 lux and would require 31 to 34 55W CFLs and 63 to 70 26W CFLs

Also if anyone has a more accurate source of how much light is enough light then one can easily use this method to re-calculate the number of CFLs required. If anyone sees any mistakes or anything just let me know, I take criticism well I think :gethigh:

Hope this helps, peace and love,
agmotes165


--------------------
“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT


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Offlinedmtcorey
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Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: agmotes165]
    #538806 - 03/21/11 09:36 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)



--------------------
:whereismiddleman:


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Offlinelostinbq
!!!STARNGE!!!!


Registered: 04/25/10
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Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: dmtcorey]
    #538855 - 03/22/11 02:08 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

dmtcorey said:
check this cfl grow outhttp://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/501519



yea but it looks airy tho and i think it was a fluro and cfl. i bet it smokes great and tastes good but it could be heavier.

this was my cfl grow and that was a whole plant but the buds were airy. smoked great/tasted and smelled like oranges got me and my wife in the couchlock and all was good for cfl's. cfl's=good/a more powerful light source=fantastic. like i have proven to my self even tho i have not flowered with a hps yes im just going on what i see and have had. o and i think it takes a bit longer to finish flowering also due to the difference in lumens from the power sources.


--------------------
Everyone are you ready for doom,
Because I've blackened the sun,
And I've bloodied the moon.
I bring gloom when I step in the room,
With the fumes of a tomb.
flowers bloom when Im taken away
:rofldrunk:


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Offlinelostinbq
!!!STARNGE!!!!


Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 581
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: agmotes165]
    #538856 - 03/22/11 02:16 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

agmotes165 said:
Well by doing a little bit of research, I found THIS ARTICLE which states that cannabis can flower successfully in 3000-5000 footcandles (fc). Using google,

1 fc = 10.76391 lux.

This works out to 32,292 - 53,820 lux. Lux is a measure of luminous intensity, and is defined as :

1 lux = 1 lumen / 1 sq. meter

I'm gonna assume that your grow area is square. So the area would be :

3.5ft x 3.5ft = 12.25 sq.ft.

Via google again:

12.25 sq.ft. = 1.13806224 sq. meters

So then by multiplying your lux requirements by your grow area...you can determine how many lumens of light you need in order to support flowering:

1.12806224 sq.m. x (32,292 - 53,820 lux) = (36,428 - 60,712 lumens)

So you need between 36,500 and 60,500 lumens in order to support flowering. Now by looking up 55W CFLs of all kind it seems to be the general rule of thumb that they output roughly 65 lumens per watt. By dividing the lumen requirment by the output of the bulb, you can determine the number of ACTUAL watts of CFL lighting you would need.

(36,500 - 60,500 lumens) / 65 lumens per watt = (562 - 931 Watts)

So if you are using 55W bulbs, then you need b/w 11 and 17 of those bulbs in order to properly support flowering.

PLEASE NOTE: This calculation is based on research math only, and only applies for 55W CFL bulbs. I used 26W CFL's, and with those, you would need roughly 21 to 35 bulbs to get adequate lighting. The website also sites that in order to penetrate to the lower leaves/buds and really fill the plant out...indoor growers will run the light intensity up to around 9000-10,000 fc which is 96,875 - 107,639 lux and would require 31 to 34 55W CFLs and 63 to 70 26W CFLs

Also if anyone has a more accurate source of how much light is enough light then one can easily use this method to re-calculate the number of CFLs required. If anyone sees any mistakes or anything just let me know, I take criticism well I think :gethigh:

Hope this helps, peace and love,
agmotes165



and with 30+ something cfl's at 6 for $10+ includeing materials for setting up the cfl's it would be more cost efficient to just go with a hid system to reach the lumens that are needed instead of jerry rigging a light system. like i only use 6-8 65k's for veg and it is adequate i think tho im not growing trees.


--------------------
Everyone are you ready for doom,
Because I've blackened the sun,
And I've bloodied the moon.
I bring gloom when I step in the room,
With the fumes of a tomb.
flowers bloom when Im taken away
:rofldrunk:


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal Flag
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Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: lostinbq]
    #538857 - 03/22/11 02:18 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Ok, then check out THIS cfl grow; http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/251624#251624

I yielded a single bud over 30 grams that was the size of my forearm.


You guys want to look at the ACTUAL watts of the bulb, not the incandescent equivalent.


--------------------


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Offlinelostinbq
!!!STARNGE!!!!


Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 581
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #538861 - 03/22/11 02:42 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

i remember reading that log when i first signed up researched  cfl's on the site. was a good read. but you posted the weight in another log and i don't know where it is right now.


--------------------
Everyone are you ready for doom,
Because I've blackened the sun,
And I've bloodied the moon.
I bring gloom when I step in the room,
With the fumes of a tomb.
flowers bloom when Im taken away
:rofldrunk:


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OfflineMastaKa0s
Stranger

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 6
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #538892 - 03/22/11 11:17 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks all for you input! :smile:

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
Ok, then check out THIS cfl grow; http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/251624#251624

I yielded a single bud over 30 grams that was the size of my forearm.


You guys want to look at the ACTUAL watts of the bulb, not the incandescent equivalent.




and thanks Hairy... that one helped me alot.. nice grow with 250W of CFL!!!  so i got four 55w cfl so that = 220 real watts of CFL so if i get another bulb i should be ok with the 250w of cfl..

i cant get anymore bulbs till after this harvest anyways...so how well do yall think 220w of CFL will do through harvest??? (besides the bit longer flowering period)

and my goal when i started this was 1/2 o.z. per plant... does anyone think this is a reasonable goal with this equipment.

oh, and im using general hydro's 3 part flora series if that matters to anyone.. and now seriously thiking of getting some gravity as well. lol.. hairy's cfl's were fuckin rediculous crazy.. propz..:thumbup:


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: MastaKa0s]
    #538895 - 03/22/11 11:42 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

1/2oz per plant is definitely doable if you only have 2-3 plants at most. Remember I was only really running two plants in there (the seedlings we just sort of a joke) and I kept the CFL's never more than 2-3 inches from the plant at any time. It requires daily adjustments but it can be done. The biggest mistake people make when growing with CFL's is keeping the bulbs as far away as you would with an HPS, and that just doesn't do anything.


--------------------


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Offlinelostinbq
!!!STARNGE!!!!


Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 581
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #538909 - 03/22/11 02:03 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

yea but if you have the higher watt cfl's id ad another inch to the 2-3 cos they get a bit hotter. trust me i came downstairs and saw the hairs starting to crisp up on the top. moved it a extra inch and i was fine or i could have added a fan but i was broke at the time. and harry is right daily inspections is a must almost. or until it is done with the stretch then they could go 2 days i guess without crisping them. gl tho man.


--------------------
Everyone are you ready for doom,
Because I've blackened the sun,
And I've bloodied the moon.
I bring gloom when I step in the room,
With the fumes of a tomb.
flowers bloom when Im taken away
:rofldrunk:


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OfflineDoc
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Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 186
Loc: New Caledonia
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Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: MastaKa0s]
    #540831 - 03/27/11 11:59 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

There is a book , it is called "How to grow 8 oz of bud for $100 or less"
  It's like a daily grow journal with a picture for every page and some quotes and info. Basically the guys method is to make a rack to mount the CFLs to that lets him adjust them around the tops of the plants, and everyday he adjusts it. The plants grow very bushy, and theres only two or three, maybe four plants. When they bud he trains them to each be just two or three buds on each plant, but very massive buds. He keeps the light no farther than 3 inches from each bud, and uses either 27 or 32 or something watt CFLs nothing else.
One plant was a mango clone and the others were seed plants. In the end he yields a half pound using nothing more than CFL's.

He said the key was PH of the soil and the fact that some of the plants were F1 seedlings resulting in hybrid vigor.

This is a great book I highly recommend it!


--------------------
No one is free when others are oppressed


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Offlinelostinbq
!!!STARNGE!!!!


Registered: 04/25/10
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Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: Doc]
    #540926 - 03/28/11 11:19 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

i think 32 cfl's will run a nice chunk of change first off and like i said it will cost money to make a rig for the lights also. i mean a power strip is (for a good 1) $6+ and then you need to make something to hold the light fixtures or power strips. when was this book made cos prices are going up on everything my friend. yea a 6 pack of the 75 watt equiv is $16.88 takes just over 5 packs to make 32 bulbs, 5x$16.88=$84.40 witch is more then i payed for my 150 watt hps. witch dont get me wrong i bet all those cfl's are brighter then my hps i only need to put 2 150watt equiv bulbs in to get a lil extra light. so i dont see how he made it for under $100, i mean i could put some junk on a book and pplz will buy it but it dont mean it is accurate to the T. o and if he is only growing 3-4 plants and trying to get 8 oz i just dont kno cos i only got a half+ off my biggest plant that had 10 tops and the main cola. o and i was trying to find the book you speak of and i dont see it. are you sure you know the name cos i would like to read it and see how he really did it. not saying he wasn't accurate cos i haven't read it but i see how the economy is going now and say it would be more like 8oz with $150.


--------------------
Everyone are you ready for doom,
Because I've blackened the sun,
And I've bloodied the moon.
I bring gloom when I step in the room,
With the fumes of a tomb.
flowers bloom when Im taken away
:rofldrunk:


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal Flag
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Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: lostinbq]
    #540933 - 03/28/11 11:50 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

He said 32w cfl's, not 32 individual CFL's.


--------------------


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Offlinelostinbq
!!!STARNGE!!!!


Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 581
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #540949 - 03/28/11 01:06 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

:doublefacepalm: i was still making my coffee when i read his post.


--------------------
Everyone are you ready for doom,
Because I've blackened the sun,
And I've bloodied the moon.
I bring gloom when I step in the room,
With the fumes of a tomb.
flowers bloom when Im taken away
:rofldrunk:


Edited by lostinbq (03/28/11 01:06 PM)


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OfflineMastaKa0s
Stranger

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 6
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: lostinbq]
    #541597 - 03/30/11 10:51 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

hey all.

i went to one of my local growshops and was just lookin and the guy there was tryin to get me to upgrade my light to a 150w hps for $150...
thats a bit pricey to me considering i found this...

http://www.insidesun.com/0072185327b45b84d573c69bb829f6e1.item

yall think its worth it?? (hope that dosent break rules abt links to vendors or aything, just ripped some hash plant x G13 and cant remember.. lol)


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Offlinelostinbq
!!!STARNGE!!!!


Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 581
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Lighting Debate... [Re: MastaKa0s]
    #541622 - 03/30/11 11:58 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

$150 wow i only paid $70 shipped to door for my 150w hps


--------------------
Everyone are you ready for doom,
Because I've blackened the sun,
And I've bloodied the moon.
I bring gloom when I step in the room,
With the fumes of a tomb.
flowers bloom when Im taken away
:rofldrunk:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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