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OfflineKine

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 374
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Lux vs Lumens
    #339216 - 01/03/10 12:56 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Lumens is a measure of light percieved by the human eye.
Lux is illuminance and luminous emittance.

So whats more important to plants?  I hear a lot about "The Lumens arent high enough".. well, what if the Lux exceeds the lumens? What if lux is what plants want over lumens?

Can anyone shed some... light (fuck sick and stoned makes for some lame humor) on this subject?


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Offlinedutc2006
Grow or Die


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Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: Kine]
    #339230 - 01/03/10 01:24 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

A lux is one lumen/square meter.  So lumens go up, lux goes up accordingly.  More lumens = faster plant growth.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: dutc2006]
    #339232 - 01/03/10 01:28 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)



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OfflineKine

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 374
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #339259 - 01/03/10 02:29 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Clarifies lumens. But dutc, theres more to lux then that from my research.  Cause if you have 1 CFL, your lumens can be say 2700, and 700 lux.  and when you have say 4 CFL's, your lumens are still 2700, but you can have 2800 lux.

But on a side note... the PAR kinda makes me thing to only care about wattage... but then why is lower wattage CFL's better? (a 13w = like 75w)


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Offlinecockdiesal_mf


Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 46
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Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: Kine]
    #339347 - 01/03/10 11:54 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

The kelvin is 2700 (the color of the light) 4 cfl would be... depending on what watt lets say the 4 cfl's are 300W(65 real watts) 2700k lights coming out to about 19000 lumens 260 watts and the color of light stays the same 2700 our  red to yellow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature


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Edited by cockdiesal_mf (01/03/10 12:10 PM)


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OfflineKine

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 374
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Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: cockdiesal_mf]
    #339663 - 01/03/10 06:42 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

uhhhhhh... and that has what to do with lumens/lux?


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Offlinecockdiesal_mf


Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 46
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Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: Kine]
    #339684 - 01/03/10 07:05 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kine said:
Clarifies lumens. But dutc, theres more to lux then that from my research.  Cause if you have 1 CFL, your lumens can be say 2700, and 700 lux.  and when you have say 4 CFL's, your lumens are still 2700, but you can have 2800 lux.




This is not right, it's not lumens that stay the same it's the kelvin. lumens are a way to measure the amount of light being put out.


--------------------
PLEASE CALL UR REPS FOR P.A. HB 1393  http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/354101
THERE IS NO CRIME WITHOUT A VICTIM! 
A MUST WATCH FOR ANYONE!!
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A MUST WATCH FOR ANYONE!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-4Id57CaAI
A MUST WATCH FOR ANYONE!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avipzVVmpL8
A MUST SEE FOR ANYONE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA


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OfflineKine

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 374
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: cockdiesal_mf]
    #339750 - 01/03/10 09:40 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Nope... lumens stay the same bro.  I'll try and search out the article.  A light specialest used a Lumen meter (not lux) and tested two lights vs one... lumens didnt change; lux went up.

Sure lumens are a way to measure the output of light. but it doesnt add like one would think.  Electricity doesnt work like it should; it follows its own laws...


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Offlinepblcenmy1
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Registered: 12/30/09
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Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: Kine]
    #339762 - 01/03/10 10:02 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

light deminishes as it travels.  Lux deals with a square meter space.  So if you have 2700 lumens in a square meter... your lux is 2700.  If you have 2 square meters with 2700 lumens.  you have half the lux.

Again lux deals with intensity and space


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Offlinecockdiesal_mf


Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 46
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Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: pblcenmy1]
    #339805 - 01/03/10 11:14 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Well I'm not to sure what lux is?  I guess I need to do my own research. But it seemed to me, you had lumens and kelvin  miss understood. If not cool! Just trying to help out. Good luck with your posts maybe I will learn something as well. :gethigh:


--------------------
PLEASE CALL UR REPS FOR P.A. HB 1393  http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/354101
THERE IS NO CRIME WITHOUT A VICTIM! 
A MUST WATCH FOR ANYONE!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cNOoNu3FCU&feature=related
A MUST WATCH FOR ANYONE!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-4Id57CaAI
A MUST WATCH FOR ANYONE!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avipzVVmpL8
A MUST SEE FOR ANYONE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA


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Offlinepblcenmy1
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Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: cockdiesal_mf]
    #339814 - 01/03/10 11:56 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

lumens dont stay the same.  if your ten miles from your cfl its not producing 2700 lumens in relation to where you are.  again lux deals with intensity and space(volume)  Its that simple.

lux is pretty much a sweet spot when your maximizing the output of your lights.  the formula was made because lumens dont calculate the loss of the lights intensity as it travels through space, or from your light to across the room.

lux factors in diminishing light intensity due to traveling from one point to another


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Offlinecockdiesal_mf


Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 46
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: pblcenmy1]
    #339821 - 01/04/10 12:05 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

interesting? (As I smoke a duby):gethigh:


--------------------
PLEASE CALL UR REPS FOR P.A. HB 1393  http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/354101
THERE IS NO CRIME WITHOUT A VICTIM! 
A MUST WATCH FOR ANYONE!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cNOoNu3FCU&feature=related
A MUST WATCH FOR ANYONE!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-4Id57CaAI
A MUST WATCH FOR ANYONE!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avipzVVmpL8
A MUST SEE FOR ANYONE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA


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Offlinepblcenmy1
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Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: cockdiesal_mf]
    #339827 - 01/04/10 12:14 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

and if your lux exceeds your lumen output then either your grow space is less than one square meter like mine or you have integraded a bad ass reflection systen, like mine, or you have too many lights crammed in one area and your gonna burn that motherfucker DOWN!  but if you dont up your lumens for a bigger grow space theres no way that sweet spot is going to be touched. at all. ever.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Registered: 04/20/08
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Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: Kine]
    #339874 - 01/04/10 03:00 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kine said:
Nope... lumens stay the same bro.  I'll try and search out the article.  A light specialest used a Lumen meter (not lux) and tested two lights vs one... lumens didnt change; lux went up.

Sure lumens are a way to measure the output of light. but it doesnt add like one would think.  Electricity doesnt work like it should; it follows its own laws...





you're wrong. if you have 2700 lumens from one light, then 4 lights emit 10,800 lumens in total.


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OfflineLucid
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Registered: 07/18/08
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Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #339952 - 01/04/10 12:30 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Inverted has a very good scale that shows how many lumens your plants are getting at a certain height from the plants, little off topic but its seriously mind opening to see. ill have him post it later.


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InvisibleInverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
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Registered: 06/01/08
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Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: Lucid]
    #339998 - 01/04/10 03:38 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)



It's foot-candles of light received not Lumens, but equally important when determining light/plant height.


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Don't criticize what you can't understand


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Offlinecockdiesal_mf


Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 46
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Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: Inverted]
    #340028 - 01/04/10 04:56 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

very nice!:gethigh:


--------------------
PLEASE CALL UR REPS FOR P.A. HB 1393  http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/354101
THERE IS NO CRIME WITHOUT A VICTIM! 
A MUST WATCH FOR ANYONE!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cNOoNu3FCU&feature=related
A MUST WATCH FOR ANYONE!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-4Id57CaAI
A MUST WATCH FOR ANYONE!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avipzVVmpL8
A MUST SEE FOR ANYONE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA


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OfflineKine

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 374
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #340056 - 01/04/10 05:49 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
Quote:

Kine said:
Nope... lumens stay the same bro.  I'll try and search out the article.  A light specialest used a Lumen meter (not lux) and tested two lights vs one... lumens didnt change; lux went up.

Sure lumens are a way to measure the output of light. but it doesnt add like one would think.  Electricity doesnt work like it should; it follows its own laws...





you're wrong. if you have 2700 lumens from one light, then 4 lights emit 10,800 lumens in total.




Im not wrong.  While your logic would work normally; this is electricity.  And it has its own laws.  2+2 does not equal 4 in lights.  It equals 2.  Otherwise anyone that says "HID is better; more lumens" is retarded because i can max out WAY more CFL's and triple a HID output... but we all know that just isnt true and that HID's pwn.

You cant intensify a light source by putting the SAME light source next to it.  It can only be equal too; or less then the highest bulbs lumens.  I know it's hard to understand... but take some time and research.  Call up your local light companies and talk to them about it.  I work with electricians on a daily basis.  My uncles a master electrician.  He doesnt know light well; but he can assure you; two lights of the SAME intensity; do not equal double intensity.

Lol... cause if your correct in saying Lumens add... then that means i can take my 220v outlet; and split it to two 110v's right?  Or vise versa... if i want a 220v, i can just spice two 110v's up no?  Exactly; you cant - just like lumens dont add.



But The "Lux deals with square meters" ix EXACTLY what i was looking for!  Mad Props to pblcenmy. Makes sense; and is a solid answer.  It allows for why Lumens and lux can start out the same; but why lux can add up and lumens cant...


EDIT: Here's ya'lls goeses.  The article that shed the light to me about lumens...

http://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/82702-lumens-they-dont-add-up.html

- and for those to lazy to go read the whole discussion (that is now massive since i first discovered it at like 4 pages) here is the best way to prove... Im right. -

"Lumens measure light intensity, in other words it is how much force or energy they have behind them to penetrate material. So putting another bulb next to a light with a certain intensity does not amplify the intensity. You can kinda think of it in mph for cars. If you are driving 55 miles per hour and someone pulls up next to you going 55 miles per hour, you will not both then be going 110. You do however get benefit from extra lights because you can spread out the lumens and cover your surface area better. Even though using two cars won't get you to the location any faster they can each haul a certain amount of boxes so you still get benefit of using two cars over one. I hope this strange analogy helps a bit."


Edited by Kine (01/04/10 05:53 PM)


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OfflineKine

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 374
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: Kine]
    #340064 - 01/04/10 05:57 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Just to drive it into the ground...

"I think you need to cough up the math on how lumens add. Because every physics book Ive read and all the information on the internet at the physics forums state other-wise. As a matter of fact on several they do AL B's demonstration as the perfect example.

Lumens are a measurement of intensity along a single band-width of light.

No one should listen to you until you can prove it with the math and physical experiment OH.. and I am a Professional lighting designer. I have lit theatre, concerts, television etc. When I put two lights in the same area (one focused right on top of the other) the lumens DO NOT increase. The area may appear to be more illuminated but in fact is receiving the same lumens. If I want it truly brighter I need to get a brighter lamp. 5 1000w lamps focused right on top of one another will pale in comparison to one 5k lamp. Stop spreading bad information or prove it."

And as another user over there said... "Has noone here taken physics?"  Shit; i havent even taken physics and I can get it... i know ya'll are older (and i was hoping wiser) then myself...  Anyone wish to contest still?  Hopefully you have some physics to back it up now...


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OfflineKine

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 374
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Lux vs Lumens [Re: Kine]
    #340066 - 01/04/10 06:00 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

For those who are going to post up this thread...

http://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/74888-1550-watts-cfl-s-13.html#post968704

He has a LUX... not LUMENS meter.  Again; refer to the top of this thread to see that; Lumens are a measure of one wavelength of light, Lux is the measure of lumens per sq meter.  Lux can add... Lumens do not.  Physics... proven.  Sorry i cant find Al. B. Fuct's pic... but as many state; it exists and it proves lumens dont add...


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