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InvisibleZombi3
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F@#king CFL questions
    #656428 - 01/26/13 08:02 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I have a grow nearly setup, The dimensions are 33"x18"x18". Which makes it a 2.7ft square grow space. I'm so bloody confused at CFL lighting. How many furkin watts do I need here? I keep reading I need minimum 50w/square foot, but at the same time I see plenty of people who say I need minimum 100w/square foot. So obviously 100w is going to perform much better, but is it necessary?

My plan is to put 4 light sockets in this grow space, and start with 4x50w CFL bulbs. Which will give me a total of 200w or 74w/square foot. At 66 lumens/watt i have 13200 lumens or 4888 lumens/square foot.

I have also got 2x14w full spectrum LED panels that will be on the walls for supplemental lighting and to broaden the spectrum. I did not add the LED output in watts or lumens to the CFL because they are not my main light source, their strictly supplemental.

All I need to know, Is if 200w CFL will support 2 auto flower plants in the space i have. Please do not start a discussion about how id be better off with HPS, I understand they are better watt for watt and blah blah. I only need info on my setup.

So to recap:
4x50w CFL = 200w CFL = 13200 lumens
18"x18" = 2.7 square feet

=74w/square foot
=4888 lumens/square foot

Will it work? Will it work well? Can i get away with less light? This is what I need to know.

Thank you all kindly in advance.


--------------------
* Die For Your Government *


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OfflineDrCrumbs
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Zombi3]
    #656430 - 01/26/13 08:11 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Here's a 6 square foot garden using a little over 400 watts.

http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/582345/fpart/1/vc/1

I've been thinking of using cfl for veg, but may just end up getting a 400 watt mh.

Right now I'm using reg four 6500k 4 ft tubes and two 2500k 4 ft tubes for veg and it works pretty well.

I think 200 watts of cfl's will work pretty well for your space.


Edited by DrCrumbs (01/26/13 08:12 PM)


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OfflineRahz
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Zombi3]
    #656673 - 01/28/13 05:36 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

A standard 2'x2' 8 bulb t5 ballast puts out around 200 watts for 4 sq ft (50 watts per sq ft).

I'm on my 3rd grow (1st soil grow), and am pulling what looks to be about 3oz from under 200 watts of light in an area slightly larger than 2'x2'.

I would guess that 74 w/sq ft would perform better than 50. You could get away with less light sure, but if you don't have thermal issues with your setup more light is better.


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OfflineSam.Cee916
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Zombi3]
    #677413 - 07/08/13 06:15 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I'm joy new to growing. Yet I am currently in the beginning of my first CFL indoor Hempy grow. I made a crop from my first cloning attempt ever. Any who my footprint Is 2'x2' andd able to adjust height upto aa4.5' I created a cool CFL fixture capable of doing the Kobe from start to finih. I got the supplies at Home Depot, costing about $60 until my mod ideas came in and anothern$40 went into it all including bulbs. In starting  whether clones or seedlings, you want you light inestimable down and length long, example 2 or 3 20-26watt 5500ks. For my Fixture I have 8 26watt 5500 k CFLs ( tho some places say are useless for cannabis they are sure wrong, I'm experiencing growth never seen outdoors. My lights are adjustable it's very easy, I keep 8 26watt 5500s, 8 23watt 2700k CFLs one of each one color is 5500' the other 2700 42 watt (2 one in each color() the large amount of light is mostly needed during flowering, u sould be surprised how much veg you can Gro with a small amount of CFLs. As Veg stops and you induce flowering over a few days change youn5500s to 2700s until u have only one maybe 2 5500s. This mimics the suns Kelvin temp through the outdoor season, obviously keep them close, don't burn tho(I know Duh!) the side emotes the most light, is plants get big LST, FIM, or take clones for next go. that's my cfl strategy in a nutshell


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Sam.Cee916] * 1
    #677415 - 07/08/13 07:04 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, here we go again. CFL lights are garbage period. They shouldn't be involved in growing and have no place in it other then starting cuttings.

Many people use them cause of the heat issue.........huge fucking mistake.

Take a 250watt MH people replace these all the time cause they say it's to hot for their space so they replace with 200 maybe 300 or even 400 watts of cfl and don't realize just how much they just fucked up their garden. To replace that 250 MH and get the same amount of lumens that they were before they need at the very least 1000watts of cfl light and if they did that it would be twice as hot as it was before with the MH.

MH bulbs come in 75watts up to 1500watts. With 4 50watt cfls you'll get way less light then using 1 150watt MH. Not even half the light actually.

When I see CFL's do this (not much bigger then the space your using)



I'll figure maybe they have a place in growing. With such a small space don't you want the most from it?
Remember you also have to figure in penetration power of the light also.


:potleaf:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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OfflineSam.Cee916
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Magash]
    #677416 - 07/08/13 07:59 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

To each their own. I would agree thatHIDs work best for you, but I must say I disagree with your statement that's roughly, CFLs are useless for growing save cuttings/seedlings. First from personal experience I've seen cfl grows produce big sweet colorful flowers, not potency lacking or anything. The grower also had a large room with HID lamps I believe 1000watt MH, and a600watt HPS OR 2, he was able to grow larger plants and more only because their effective PAR range is influenced or met by greater distances, as well as all the wasted electricity given off as heat. Thecfl crop was surprisingly robust for its optical size, carefull intricate LST along with minimal FIMing an SCROG out produced his guess by 3-5x expected. The flower formation was as pristine as HPS, potency the same buds close in size to HID produced meds. They key is understanding what type/color/PAR/ effect the plant your growing and to exploit those to give Thorpe best possible conditions, with less electricity and greater electricity  conservation,there's less heat meaning little to no fan or circulation, easily adjustable lights and quick move of fixture height. Everyone will stick to what they learned with, what they've found to suit the best, or what gives them the most with the least work, no matter what what ne person does exHID grower only, they will abviously emphasize the cons of CFLS to a point where the "facts" they tell you are greatly out of true proportion, if CFLs didn't work, there wouldn't be thousands of topics on them(light bulbs, set up, best utilization so on and so fourth. So I respect everyone's right to believe what they want, we just need to change in a way where we are more receptive to change


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Sam.Cee916] * 2
    #677430 - 07/08/13 11:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I've been under the lights over 30 years and have tried just about every bulb on the market made for growing and am more then willing to change if something better comes along.

first off this is false
Quote:

as well as all the wasted electricity given off as heat.


anybody who does even the slightest bit of research will find that not just cfl but any florescent light produces more heat per watt then MH or HPS does.

Quote:

They key is understanding what type/color/PAR/ effect the plant your growing and to exploit those to give Thorpe best possible conditions, with less electricity and greater electricity  conservation




This may be true in a sense but under testing the main problem was their inability to get the light to the plants with any power. I use to teach with good old Ed Rosenthal at Oaksterdam University till the DEA hit us. We had the equipment to test all the lights on the market which is a little better then "my buddy did this stuff". (by the way for those in Oakland I believe Oaksterdam is open again but the clone garden is still shut down).

The equipment use was a photosynthetically active radiation meter used to measure the intensity of light in the spectrum that plants use to photosynthesize and the ability of the light to get this light in effective amount to the plants. (this is where cfl lights have their problem). The unit was made by a company called Li-Cor. The exact model I can't remember but I can find out if you like. (by the way I'm not being a smart ass here. You sound smart and I figure you may want to know where I got the info from.)

Quote:

point where the "facts" they tell you are greatly out of true proportion


and yes my facts may have been out of proportion but unfortunately it was in favor of the cfl's.

Quote:

The flower formation was as pristine as HPS,


Maybe on the very top of the plants but get to the middle of the plant and there is no way in hell unless your friend was using HID lights that were not made for growing (home depot bulbs) then maybe or his plants were under two feet tall. (see chart below)

Quote:

Everyone will stick to what they learned with




Wrong again. I learned with florescent both tubes and cfl's simply because HID lights weren't being used in home gardens yet. Yeah yeah yeah keep your old man comments to yourself.

Quote:

CFLs didn't work, there wouldn't be thousands of topics on them(light bulbs, set up, best utilization so on and so fourth.



Yes there are thousands of topics on them but if they were better then HID lights every professional grower, seed company, and so on would be using them. (I may be misunderstanding you but that seems to be what your saying here).


Do I think HID is the best out, no I do not. There is no doubt that they are going to be replaced by LED lights and that is not very far off.

We have a moderator here that works with bulbs testing them and such if he would stop working and show up every once and a while. 

If your wanting to get in depth in the subject this is the man to reach.
http://www.growery.org/forums/showprofile.php?User=41

He pretty much know all there is to know about lights since that is his living and has a brain the size of a beach ball and can get his point across better then my 2nd grade grammar skills.






Now that I check it's open again and has been for a while apparently and has a class on lighting but it looks like old Ed is gone now also.
http://www.oaksterdamuniversity.com/semester.html


This comment you can feel free to say to me as much as you want.
Quote:

Everyone will stick to what they learned with, what they've found to suit the best, or what gives them the most with the least work, no matter what what ne person does exHID grower only, they will abviously emphasize the cons of CFLS to a point where the "facts" they tell you are greatly out of true proportion



Say this to anybody else here before they get a chance to say where they got their info whether right or wrong and it's a instant perma ban. (I have to say that shit it's the rules. I don't ban shit)

The difference between a regular HPS and one for growing

I wasn't being a smart ass about this earlier in this post

For a MH


This is the best reading I can find for cfl bulbs and it's pretty damn good other then the inability to get this light to the plants in decent amounts. There inability to penetrate the upper growth is a major problem. In order to do this you will be using more power then if you used HID lights.




Like I said HID will be a thing of the past but it won't be cfl or any other kind of florescent that will do it.


Sorry my fucked up grammar is fucking up my ability to get across very well.

:happyweed:

Oh and PS I read your bio and we have had almost the same injury mine was a little further down from my neck. Sounds like you had a better doctor though. I didn't get hurt the same way though I was run over working as a road painter on the freeway.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Magash]
    #677436 - 07/09/13 02:52 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Thank you mag.  I hate this fucking CFL trend.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineTomCollins


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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #677439 - 07/09/13 03:58 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Awesome reply mag. That was really informative.


--------------------
andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


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OfflineSam.Cee916
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Magash]
    #677597 - 07/11/13 02:42 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I can only Gro in a small closet, CFLs handle the job fine, I use the right lights at right times. I only went this way because I believed. I'm seeing excellent growth in both clones and seedlings. Time will tell, and the flowers will be the deciding factor, I've enjoyed every bit of this my first indoor, after 8 years growing outside. If my flowers match or surpass my expectations I will make sure to post pics and to let all the oh F the cfl thread that they just have no clue about em never tried wont, and r thick headed for others they more than likely will try it. I've never had seedlings grow with such vigor and my clones are excellent!


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Sam.Cee916]
    #677598 - 07/11/13 03:36 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

this my first indoor, after 8 years growing outside




Exactly why I can't take what you say seriously. Your reading our of a book and have no experience with HID. After you do your cfl grow why don't you try HID light and test it yourself. Myself I have years with florescents and years with HID and currently sell buds, clones, hash to the clubs for a living.

Quote:

the oh F the cfl thread that they just have no clue about em never tried wont,




Quote:

Everyone will stick to what they learned with, what they've found to suit the best, or what gives them the most with the least work, no matter what what ne person does




Quote:

If my flowers match or surpass my expectations I will make sure to post pics and to let all the oh F the cfl thread that they just have no clue about em never tried wont, and r thick headed




You are doing exactly this. Just in reverse with the cfl. When you've tried both then maybe you can be taken seriously.

Show me your outdoor grow here's mine



I'm a Mendocino County native, yeah I know that don't mean shit but to this day 75% of the people in Mendo are bud growers. If CFL lights were good for anything other then growing a garden you can fit under a kitchen sink then maybe some serious growers would be using them.

After reading this
Quote:

as well as all the wasted electricity given off as heat.



I don't think, I know you have done little research on them as this would be the first thing that you would have found out is false. (Other then "My friend did this" Watching YouTube, or reading some book)

It gets really fucking old arguing with someone (this isn't just you by the way) when they have no experience what so ever growing indoors even with the lights they are arguing for let alone the ones they are speaking out against. Funny thing we have had this argument with others and the ones who have tried both never seem to come back and defend the cfl or T5s.Had the same argument with someone who felt the same way about T5 lights. (Which happen to be a better option for small grow then CFLs are)


Quote:

I can only Gro in a small closet, CFLs handle the job fine



Maybe but still try a HID light. I don't argue for no fucking reason I want everybody including you to get the best they can and the most bang for their buck.

If you incest on CFL light I hope you use something like these. Like I said I grew with just about every kind of florecent for years and as far as CFL these were the best I found.

They come optimized for vegitive growth and for flowering rather then a bunch of the little coil ones.

and have you even looked into these

These are HID bulbs that have been coated for a balanced spectrum and can easily match the spectrum of CFL lights.

Years under the lights my friend, years. :wink:

:happyweed:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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Offlinebudgrowerwannabe
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Magash]
    #677601 - 07/11/13 05:53 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I cant say anything I have been only veggen under t5s. They do ok in veg  for me .But i put them under mh/hid for flower.
Imo, I dont think cfls have the penetration MH/HID have!!


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OfflineSam.Cee916
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Magash]
    #677651 - 07/11/13 04:45 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Much respect but you misinterpreting what I'm writing, I've never grown indoors, CFLS offer a cheap easy way to test your indoor skills, so why would I brine in a large HID that would require a greater start cost, cost more to run, and deal with the extra heat. CFLs get warm, they are cheap, don't need to change my electricity, is suiting my needs as of now, it's literally been 2 weeks, I'm a hard headed outdoor organic as it can get that's my way I'm stuck on, so saying I'm doing what I'm stuck in would be false considering this is new for me, trying this out and not to spend more money when I can spend less and if it fails I don't take that large hit, if I had a house free to do whatever I'm positive I'd have HIDS but u can't discount CFLs for what they can do in certain situations.


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OfflineSam.Cee916
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: budgrowerwannabe]
    #677652 - 07/11/13 04:46 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Oh i agree nothing penetrate like HID.


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OfflineSam.Cee916
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Sam.Cee916]
    #677653 - 07/11/13 04:49 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I'm in North Highlands, Sacramento CA, it's not wise to grow for height considering the high level of crime, drugs and violence, I have some pics of my girls this season and more from last seasons. I also LsT. I will post when I'm back from work


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Offlinebudgrowerwannabe
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Sam.Cee916]
    #677661 - 07/11/13 07:03 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I love pics man!:jackiechanofapproval:


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: budgrowerwannabe] * 1
    #677669 - 07/11/13 08:08 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Well a 150 HPS wont increase the heat, or electricity bill, anymore so than the CFL's.  Plus you get the added benefit of a higher degree of penetration.  When we use the term HID, MH, and HPS, we're not automatically talking about a thousand watts per light.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineSam.Cee916
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #677687 - 07/11/13 10:16 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I know I know that HID doesnt automatically mean 1000 or 600 watts. I'm not a beginner and know a thing or two, I'm assuming since I posted my CFLs that I'm auto-locked as uneducated. That's fine because these forums are for this exactly, growers/peers sharing and debating over a shared interest. I have read thousands of threads before posting. I can attest there a lot of shlomoes on these things and also legit growers, I know I could learn something valuable fom most of you. I also could teach you something as well, if we close of our mind to lisetning to learn as in we know it all u can't tell me. We will often never catch valuable info. One may have been so pro about cloning and he'd easily not pick up some info from another that he'd probably need soon after, yet since he knew it all, he couldn't learn. I'm here to learn, Starting indoor grows and outs for me is in the beginning go slow and easy, but u should have that shit down and more after some seasons. What I guess I'm saying is there's no wrong way to grow a crop(yeah, but u know what I mean) hell even those to pay turfy tomatoe things work whoda thunk? N not me but I was willing to listen and learn same with lights, I know if I want my prime crop grown indoors I'd need more than CFLs but my primary meds are outs nothing's better than the sun, and I don't buy any nute, make my own, and a natural self made bloom, have a healthy compost bin, outside my girls are in paradise. If not for my neighbor hood I'd have the 14 foot afghanis and 17 foot haze plants. But I can't go over 6ft or it's a target by every gangbanger around. So now maybe you get my direction. I want to TRY indoors, in a SMALL area, I Wanted fairly inexpensive equipment, I did have a 200 watt MH I would need to bring 3phase 220 to my little space just to power my ballast. Yeah they have 110 online and stores, but not the stores I went to, and i wanted something easy to replace without having to order anything or go to green fire Hydroponics but lowes, Home Depot, osh. I'm not remedial to the place where I'm clue less. I know what I'm doing.  This is this year, pic is from June 14th, they've been trained and topped. Kens Grand Daddy Purp. I have 6 Smartpots act as raised bed, no nutes used, just my own made tea. Use Maple Ash as bloom with tea, finishes so tasty, frosty and just amazing.


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OfflineGreenHorns
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Sam.Cee916]
    #677705 - 07/12/13 01:08 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

CFL are dirt ass cheap and they work period. I would say use them and learn with them before you over complicate your grow with hydro and nutes up the wazoo and bulbs/ballasts/can fans. I've flowered under CFL and pulled 1.5-2oz per plant. They aren't dense but its weed and it got me real high. Its the PF Tek for growing weed how I see it. Start small and grow into your setup. I've got a T5 grow journal with pics. Check out what it takes and what you can expect best case with low power lighting.


--------------------
wiggy wham wham wazzle


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: F@#king CFL questions [Re: Sam.Cee916]
    #677709 - 07/12/13 03:04 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sam.Cee916 said:
Much respect but you misinterpreting what I'm writing, I've never grown indoors, CFLS offer a cheap easy way to test your indoor skills, so why would I brine in a large HID that would require a greater start cost, cost more to run, and deal with the extra heat. CFLs get warm, they are cheap, don't need to change my electricity, is suiting my needs as of now, it's literally been 2 weeks, I'm a hard headed outdoor organic as it can get that's my way I'm stuck on, so saying I'm doing what I'm stuck in would be false considering this is new for me, trying this out and not to spend more money when I can spend less and if it fails I don't take that large hit, if I had a house free to do whatever I'm positive I'd have HIDS but u can't discount CFLs for what they can do in certain situations.





Ok, I got ya now and I agree. I was fully misinterpreting what you were saying really badly apparently. Not your fault it's mine. I own up when I fuck up or give wrong info and I fucked up this time. :shrug::facepalm:

Like I've stated many many times I'm a full computer retard.:tard:


Oh yeah nice job on the outdoor plant :thumbup:

Quote:

Sam.Cee916 said:
I'm in North Highlands, Sacramento CA, it's not wise to grow for height considering the high level of crime, drugs and violence, I have some pics of my girls this season and more from last seasons. I also LsT. I will post when I'm back from work




I know your area a little I've sold to a few Sacto clubs. I know the crime thing in that area or near there anyway. I had to watch a friends house while he was in the hospital for a month in a bad area of Stockton. I think that is fairly close to you. I had bushes next to the house I was watching along the backyard fence. Twice in that month (March 2008) they found bodies in the bushes.



:happyweed:

Once again sorry about that I own up when I fuuuuuuck up.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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