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Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 41
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
supporting william (pics added)
    #318307 - 11/19/09 03:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Soil Growers:
1. Are you growing from seed or clones?

2. How old are your plants?
ancient 8 weeks or so

3. How tall are your plants?
the one in question is 15-17"

4. What size containers are they planted in?
4 gallon pot

5. What is your soil mix?
it's MG! I know I know

6. How often do you water and what type of water do you use?
once a week if that

7. What is the pH of your water?

8. What kind of fertilizer do you use and what is its NPK ratio?
bio thrive 4-2-2

9. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything?
bottled water

10. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights")
150w of cfl's

11. How close are your lights to the plants?
5-6 inches

12. What size is your grow space in square feet?

13. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space?

14. What is the pH of the soil?
no idea

15. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space?
thrips, not to bad

16. How much experience do you have growing?
Ive slayed many house plants, they all fear me
this is my first grow.

Where to start... I got 2 williams wonder clones from a caregiver, they looked pretty nute burned and had mites,gnats and thrips. I was just going to  set them outside and do what they do. It took me a long time to get my gf of 20 years to give the green light to grow, kids and loudmouth friends are all but delt with.

So I move these clones in at night and out during the day and in about 3 weeks of maybe half inch of growth I ask my gf to pick me up some new organic soil  (ya she got MG but her heart as in the right place). I transplanted them into 4 gal pots and moved them inside to the closet.

Now when I transplanted them almost all the roots were eaten by bugs and I mean only one 1/2 inch nub was left one one of them and the other had maybe an inch. this was upsetting but hey new soil new chance.

about 3 weeks in the closet and slow growth still but virtually no thrips. I grab  more clones, another williams wonder and a lemon kush.

I have only added nutes twice the last time it burned my kush but not the wonder. So the thrips came back a little damage here and there nothing to bad but growth is lacking still so I decide to try foliar or whatever and spray 4-8 times a day. Now its so top heavy when I spray it falls over and it can hardly stay up dry.

All that for this lol.. what should I do? I have a fan but cant put it on the plant at all and I dont want to keep spraying it if its going to keep falling. I was thinking of transplanting them again. I already have a lst project in the same space I just need these two plants to go up.

On a side note my kush is 3' tall and in the same soil/water.


After about a week inside

2.5 weeks after I gave it nutes


After a week or so of  spraying.

here is a pic of my lst project about 25 days a few more of along the way in my pics


Edited by Mud (11/19/09 02:54 PM)

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Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
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Re: supporting william [Re: Mud]
    #318314 - 11/19/09 04:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Hi Mud,

You can upload your pictures and post them like I did bellow by clicking on "Pics" in your control bar.

Here is the picture you just uploaded:


From the picture, your plant doesn't look too shabby. I don't see how it has a hard time standing up.

In all honesty though, from what you described there may be no saving these plants. It sounds like it's on it's way to becoming a hardcore hermie. Though it might pull through, so I think it's worth a shot. :smile:

I grow hydroponically, so my advice may not be the best. Though lots of people on here grow with soil, so I read a fair amount on it.

I think the first thing you need to do is stop folair feeding it. Over fertilization can hurt the plants too. Your only suppose to do it max twice a day, during the coolest hours of the day. Just don't do it anymore.

I would throw some sand over the soil as well. Lot's of growers do this, and it limits airflow into the soil - hence suffocating any pests in the soil. Just a good thing to do, incase the problem arises again.

Also, I think one of the best things you can do really is just stop fertilizing. Just use plain water (make sure the PH is between 6.5-7.0) for now until the plants look as though they have recovered. If you don't have anything to measure ph with, I think most non-carbonated bottled water is 6.0-7.0.

Really limit the water though. Thrips apparently seem to love really moist environments. Let your soil get dry before you water. I think most folks on here water like once every 3 days.

Here is some additional information on thrip control and removal: http://www.rollitup.org/organics/9821-thrips.html

Plants are sort of like children. They appreciate your love, but sometimes they need some space to grow on their own a bit. :smile: Give them what they need and then leave em be.

I hope your plants pull through. :smile:

andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.

Edited by TomCollins (11/19/09 04:54 AM)

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Re: supporting william [Re: TomCollins]
    #318569 - 11/19/09 05:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I haven't taken new pics yet those pics are week or so old, trust me when I say they cant support themselves. They are propped up with some hard chunks of soil.

I just screw my spray nozzle into a newly opened bottled water, no nutes added to spray ever. Do you still think I should not be spraying?

I have been thinking all day of transplanting them when my nematodes get here but they have had such a hard life. Way more stress than I have indicated like 3 soap baths a day for 10 days, had them in 40 deg outdoor weather a bunch, dumped over at least 3 times before the closet and one of those times the wind blew it off my porch 6' fall.

As you can see by the pics thy have pulled through after some quiet time but in the back of my mind I figured they would go herm also but I dont care as I am attached to them now, sad I know. And I could give away wonder seeds!

Any suggestions for my lst project? It is about 2 inches longer than the pic now with 4 more growth centers. It is by far my favorite plant. I am in the process of walking it from the other direction around the pot also. When I decide where I want to go with it I am going to move it to a 10 gal pot we use for peppers in the summer.

I just want to do a good job regardless of harvest amount, I think they look great and feel so much better after all that growth. I am a patient person and can wait as long as it takes but it sucks that they cant support themselves.

If they do go hermie will the seeds be viable?
can I do anything to help them at this point?
should I take clones from them and try growing in water?
am I asking to much from the plant, will it even flower?

The only wonder plant I have seen was purple, I know this ones mother is also. When I first got them you could see uniform crystals on the leaves in bands for lack of better words and currently they have none that I can see, I could barely see them on the clone. Any ideas why I dont see them?



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Captain Canada

Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 240
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: supporting william [Re: Mud]
    #318662 - 11/19/09 07:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

First, stop foliar feeding period.  It is a touchy thing to do and honestly if you do not know what you are doing with it, you are causing more harm than good.  Your plants have gone through hell obviously, at this point, do not transplant.  If you get Nematodes, just use them on the current soil.

You should stop feeding and watering immediately.  Do not water again until they are bone DRY.  Like a week from now.  Do not feed again until we see 1) Recovery 2) Desire after recovery.  Your primary problem is you lack roots, healthy roots.  The pests have eaten the roots along with other conditions such as over nutes, over watering. This along with the fact the plant has not hardened at all in its life is causing the toppling over issue.

So lets use a stake or chopstick or whatever you have to tie and support it loosely for the next few weeks.  Do not bind it super tight as to restrict its movement or growth, but tight enough that it can stay standing up.  Now get fan/wind on it at a low rate that is interrupted, IE: oscillating fan.  This will allow it to harden.  Stopping feeding and watering will get the roots (hopefully) growing and stretching and grasping stronger into the soil. 

It also seems this plant has stretched early in its life.  Perhaps the light was too far away, not sure, but what I would like to see is that you add no more than 1 inch of soil to the container and this will aid more root devlopment and further support the plant.  Then add the 1 inch of sand (sterile if possible, bake it at 350F for 1 hour if you are unsure), now you have added two inches of base support that it greatly needs.

Covering the top layer of the soil with 1 inch of sand will make the pests have a very difficult life from now on.  Nematodes of course will erradicate them completely. Kill every bug you see manually.  Do not use chemicals or pesticides.

Use a Neem Oil application lightly on its leaves as well.

Given the obvious top heavy nature of the plant, lack of hardening and a complete imbalance of root VS leaves, you can consider cutting all the largest leaves in half, perhaps 30% to 50% of all the leaves, but choose the largest leaves.  There is a direct relation between roots and leaves, like highways and right now the root system you are left with is incapable of supplying the upper leaves with the nutes and water they need.  More watering and more nutes is NOT the solution at all though, as it is about how much the plant can take up given its damaged system.

Space all these changes out a bit over time as well, don't do it all in one day, do half of it today, some more tomorrow, give it a chance to settle into these new positive conditions, the stress is awful for these plants.

Do everything I have posted and then pray 3 times a day to whatever deity you fancy at the moment and I will give them a 70% chance of survival.  Keep going the way you are and I doubt they can pull through.

Seeds from a hermie are no good.

You can harvest healthy clones from it and they would likely be ok if you treat them properly...but you may find issues and certainly this will weaken the main plant a lot.

Keep us updated, would love to see your plants make it.

Good luck.

Edited by Azyle00 (11/19/09 07:20 PM)

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Re: supporting william [Re: Azyle00]
    #318958 - 11/20/09 01:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the advice, holding off on watering for awhile.


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