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OfflineMidgetpawn
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Silica comparison by brand
    #744294 - 08/18/14 10:28 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I'm shopping for new silica and started to compare the product labels after noticing some big differences in numbers for some. Figured I'd put some of the label info on here to maybe help someone else shopping for silica. Some strange slight variations in %'s, what they are derived from, and they almost all have different applications amounts. I know I left out the bottle sizes and prices, but it appears to work out that the higher the % of silica the better the value per weight. I'm not sure if that's true of the powdered stuff though.


Liquid Silica

-Dyna Grow Protekt - Potassium 3.7%, Silicon(SiO2)7.8% Though SiO2 is silicon dioxide, and Silicon is just Si... 1-5ml per gallon

-General Hydroponic Armor SI - Derived from potassium silicate. Soluble potash 4%, Silicon Dioxide(SiO2) 10%.  about 1-5ml per gallon

-Advance Nutruents Rhino Skin - Soluble potash 0.4%, Silicon Dioxide(SiO2) 0.15%... read in a forum that a rep claims it's so low because plants supposedly can only absorb about 1% silica, which if even true you could just use less of something stronger.

-Cyco Silica - Derived from potassium silicate. Soluble Potash 3%. no silica amount labeled and even the MSDA sheet is full of "N/A". Really makes me trust Cyco. 4-8ml per gallon

-Dutch Master gold range silica - "1.4% silicon derived from potassium silicate", Soluble Potash(K2O) 2%, manganese(Mn).001%. 2ml per gallon

-Botanicare Silica Blast - Soluble Potash 0.5% and then the bottle says "2% silicon(Si) derived from sodium silicate and potassium silicate" but it's my understanding that potassium silicate(k2o3Si) is made from Silicon(Si) and potassium(k2o) so I don't know what they are saying the 2% is... 2.5-5ml per gallon

-GrowTek Pro Silicate - Just says 0-0-3

-Mad Farmer Silica shield - Derived from potassium silicate. Silicon Dioxide(SiO2)8%, Soluble Potash 3%. 5 ml per gal. TIP: I strongly suggest new small growers find this company's sample pack. I checked out the prices and it's over $100 value of optional additives for just $12 shipping.. has silica shield in the sample pack.

-Humboldt Structural Integrity - Derived From: Sodium Silicate(another brand "Potsil" mentions specifically that they avoided using sodium silicate because of impurities) "6% Silicon Dioxide(SiO2)" is all it says. 1-3 ml per gallon

-Potsil(UK) - Listed as 34% Potassium Silicate, 11% Potassium 23% Silicon Dioxide... 2ml per 10L(3.8ml = 1 gallon)

-Aptus Fasilitator - I don't know but an 8oz is $150 so fucck that. 5L = $8000 online... wtf

-Bloom Advanced Floriculture Silica - Contains potassium silicate 53.2%. Apply 1ml per 3 lters of water. Be aware that the % of potassium and silica is combined into one number to seem higher.


Powdered Silica

-Skunk Labs Silicate 7.8. DIY silicate powder - Derived from potassium silicate. Soluble potash(k2o)3%, SiO2(silica dioxide) 52%. 1-2ml per gallon.

-NPK Industries RAW Silica - Derived from Diatomite. 45% Silicon dioxide(SiO2) Potash 3% . Says to use 1/8-1/4 tbs per gallon in reservoir, but it also says 1oz makes 100 gallons but there are only 6 tsp in an oz. Also the only PH neutral Silica I've seen... So IDK wtf is going on with this stuff compared to most of the others.

-Agsil 16H Potassium Silicate - Potassium: K = 26.56% K2O = 32% Silica: SiO2 = 52.8% Use at 35 PPM or .25g/gal. This is probably the best option IMO Thanks Psychotron for mentioning it.

-Kelp4less(ebay) - 65% Silicon Dioxide, 5% potassium Dioxide. 2.5-5 ml per gallon

I personally think GH armor SI or Agsil 16H are probably the best options for the money they cost. A lot of people swear by Dynagrow Protek, but I dislike that they mislabeled the main ingredient. Although almost every brand has people who say the one they use is the best.

It's strongly suggested to add silica to water before adding nutrients and probably anything else. Apparently the PH of silica can be anywhere from 8 to 12+ and seems to be higher depending on the concentration. You can use it as PH up within reason. Also should be noted that Silica products work on the cellular level and don't work by coating foliage with applications of silica. AKA you can feed it via the roots, and I personally believe that coating your leaf with a layer of silica could potentially trap heat and have the opposite effect you'd want in high heat.


Edited by Midgetpawn (09/04/14 05:15 PM)


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InvisibleCrushNazT
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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: Midgetpawn]
    #744295 - 08/18/14 10:48 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

idk all the ins and outs of silica, i can just say that ive been using silica blast for about a year now, and i love it. silica and fans blowing on your plants will definitely make super strong stalks and stems.


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OfflineMrshroom
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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: CrushNazT]
    #744298 - 08/18/14 01:16 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

ive been using silica blast and have nothing to complain about it, ive had very good results with it. The only other brand i really know of is dyna-grow that the guys at my hydro store say is a better brand to use. and ive heard that from other growers as well.


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OfflineMidgetpawn
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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: Mrshroom]
    #744301 - 08/18/14 02:14 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I most like the look of GH armor Si. I think dynagrow Protekt might have the best reputation because it's been around a while?.

With all hydroponic nutrients I get the impression that the most important thing is the quality/purity of ingredients, and factors surrounding ingredients, but none of these companies want you to know what grade ingredients they use. The only thing you can figure out is if they outsource or make their nutrients on site, and even that doesn't tell you if they use cheap impure ingredients to maximize profits. None of the hydroponic nutrient companies seem very trustworthy to me. Although I do like the company Blue Planet Nutrients who seems to genuinely care about making the highest quality nutrients via education and high quality ingredients, and they specifically formulate their nutrients with cannabis in mind. I think specifically they may potentially have the best bottled organic line and bloom boosters. Who knows though. They don't have a silica product.

oh btw even the us government acknowledges that silica has multiple potential benefits in horticulture and makes plants more resistant to harsh environmental conditions.


--------------------
Be sure to read up on "autoflower"/ruderalis seeds before choosing them. Unless you NEED autos, you might do much better with anything else. No more hoarding ultra genetics! We need more of the best not less!


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InvisibleJollyGreenJRayV
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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: Midgetpawn]
    #744302 - 08/18/14 02:45 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

There's this stuff called Bloom Silica, which they say has the highest concentration of potassium silicate on the market at 53.2%.

http://bloomadvancedfloriculture.com.au/products/bloom-silica/


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OfflineMidgetpawn
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Re: Silica comparison [Re: JollyGreenJRayV]
    #744310 - 08/18/14 04:08 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Hm missed that one. Contains potassium silicate 53.2%. Apply 1ml per 3 lters of water. It also costs 2 to 4 times more per liter than anything else.

Ohh wait they are doing a little trick saying "contains potassium silicate" Instead of saying the % potassium and % of silicon dioxide(SiO2), they combine the amount of potassium and silicon into one number. So it could be 20% potassium(0-0-20) and 30% silicon or whatever the number they are hiding is.

If anyone knows the relationship or difference between silicon(Si), Silicon Dioxide (SiO2), Potassium Silicate(K2O3Si), and Sodium Silicate(Na2O3Si), please share. I've been trying to figure it out since yesterday. I think maybe potassium and silicon together make potassium silicate or sodium silicate, which are sources of the potassium and silicate dioxide you want to use on your plants? I dunno but the internet isn't helping me figure it out.



--------------------
Be sure to read up on "autoflower"/ruderalis seeds before choosing them. Unless you NEED autos, you might do much better with anything else. No more hoarding ultra genetics! We need more of the best not less!


Edited by Midgetpawn (09/04/14 05:10 PM)


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: Midgetpawn]
    #744327 - 08/18/14 06:37 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I use dyna-grow, it works fine. Also used Grow Tek and noticed no difference, dyna-grow is more concentrated, growtek had slightly less silica, strange they dont list it anymore. 

I just bought a gallon of dyna grow when I found THIS PAGE...  that has the straight potassium silicate powder. When I finish the gallon jug I'm going to get one of these for 1/3rd the cost of the gallon, and make insanely more... Some things don't need to be pre-mixed with water, we just got sold on the idea of 'liquid nutrients'



Quote:

Agsil 16H Potassium Silicate, Soluble Silica Powder nutrient composition is approximately:

Potassium:
K = 26.56%
K2O = 32%


Silica:
SiO2 = 52.8%

If you take (1) gallon of R.O. water and add (.25) gram of Agsil® 16H you would have 18ppm (K)Potassium and 35ppm (Si) Silica in solution.

Most companies selling Agsil 16H Potassium Silicate, Soluble Silica Powder, will tell you to use it at 50-100ppm when the industry standard is 30-35ppm, even Botanicare® Silica Blast® will yield 30ppm from 5ml/gal at the manufacturer’s recommended dosage. In our opinion, this is just to get you to buy more Agsil® 16h.




--------------------
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OfflineSmokeSomeHash
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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: phychotron]
    #744376 - 08/18/14 11:31 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Ive used the GH armor si and botanicare silica blast and both work well.

ArmorSi is a good value for the cost, and yes it even says on the bottle add to water first and it is a strong base that will raise pH.


--------------------


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: SmokeSomeHash]
    #744380 - 08/19/14 02:51 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Posted the wrong link, if you click on it you'd get to the right page... lots of good info, two pdf's at the bottom

http://www.mbferts.com/Agsil-16H-Potassium-Silicate-Soluble-Silica-Powder-545.htm


--------------------
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View My Garden
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Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: Midgetpawn]
    #744381 - 08/19/14 03:08 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Midgetpawn said:
Hm missed that one. Contains potassium silicate 53.2%. Apply 1ml per 3 lters of water. It also costs 2 to 4 times more per liter than anything else.

Ohh wait they are doing a little trick saying "contains potassium silicate" Instead of saying the % potassium and % of silicon dioxide(SiO2), they combine the amount of potassium and silicon into one number. So it could be 20% potassium(0-0-20) and 30% silicon or whatever the number they are hiding is.

If anyone knows the relationship or difference between silicon(Si), Silicon Dioxide (SiO2), Potassium Silicate(K2O3Si), and Sodium Silicate(Na2O3Si), please share. I've been trying to figure it out since yesterday. I think maybe potassium and silicon together make potassium silicate or sodium silicate, which are sources of the potassium and silicate dioxide you want to use on your plants? I dunno but the internet isn't helping me figure it out.




Potassium Silicate is a SALT, just as NaCl is table salt, you dissolve it in water and it breaks apart into Na+ and Cl-. I believe SiO2 is the negatively charged portion of the salt, leaving the potassium/sodium positively charged. Although I'm not sure how the Potassium or Sodium react, I'd guess in both cases they would combine with the extra Oxygen to form K2O and Na2O respectively. Oxygen likes to be O2, so the three Oxygen in the salts would leave a negatively charged O-, just waiting to find something to grab onto, with the + ions readily available.

Silica Dioxide is probably not absorbed until it breaks to just Silica and O2, but don't quote me on that, its just a guess. The hydro store told me silica takes about a month before its showing results, and was trying to sell me a new silica product that would uptake rapidly and show results in 2-3 days. Not sure what form it is in, but its probably just chelated Silica with no O2. I can't remember the name though.


--------------------
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View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflineMrshroom
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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: phychotron]
    #744391 - 08/19/14 09:45 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
I use dyna-grow, it works fine. Also used Grow Tek and noticed no difference, dyna-grow is more concentrated, growtek had slightly less silica, strange they dont list it anymore. 

I just bought a gallon of dyna grow when I found THIS PAGE...  that has the straight potassium silicate powder. When I finish the gallon jug I'm going to get one of these for 1/3rd the cost of the gallon, and make insanely more... Some things don't need to be pre-mixed with water, we just got sold on the idea of 'liquid nutrients'



Quote:

Agsil 16H Potassium Silicate, Soluble Silica Powder nutrient composition is approximately:

Potassium:
K = 26.56%
K2O = 32%


Silica:
SiO2 = 52.8%

If you take (1) gallon of R.O. water and add (.25) gram of Agsil® 16H you would have 18ppm (K)Potassium and 35ppm (Si) Silica in solution.

Most companies selling Agsil 16H Potassium Silicate, Soluble Silica Powder, will tell you to use it at 50-100ppm when the industry standard is 30-35ppm, even Botanicare® Silica Blast® will yield 30ppm from 5ml/gal at the manufacturer’s recommended dosage. In our opinion, this is just to get you to buy more Agsil® 16h.








I just oreded all there nuits a month or so back and using it in my new hdro set. And i also did buy the silica powder.figured i would give it a test run. Even got there clone dip and and clone nuits for the cloner. I think i only spent round 250 for everything and all my liquid nuits were gallon and i got a one pound of silica poweder.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: Mrshroom]
    #744421 - 08/19/14 02:06 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

How do you like it? I'm trying the booster right now, its still early so its hard to tell how it works.


--------------------
Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

Perfect Dry and Cure
View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflineMidgetpawn
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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: phychotron]
    #744489 - 08/20/14 09:22 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Well I'm having a hell of a hard time figuring out why "silicon dioxide" is listed as the main ingredient on so many of these products when silicon dioxide(SiO2) is an insoluble sand. I was just reading something that says silica additives don't even have SiO2 in them and are just potassium silicate or sodium silicate. I'd really like to know how someone knew to make the first silica additive.


Also seems kind of  important to establish if 1. it takes a month for plants to benefit from silica additives, and 2. if plants can only use a very limited amount of silica.


Good link, phsychotron. That seems like the right stuff to get, and $12 with free shipping is great. Wish I had seen it before I spent more $ on much less silica additive.


--------------------
Be sure to read up on "autoflower"/ruderalis seeds before choosing them. Unless you NEED autos, you might do much better with anything else. No more hoarding ultra genetics! We need more of the best not less!


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OfflineMrshroom
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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: phychotron]
    #744496 - 08/20/14 10:31 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
How do you like it? I'm trying the booster right now, its still early so its hard to tell how it works.




WY to early to tell, i just started my plants a week ago sunday in hydro. I used nothing for nuits. Friday ill change out the water and use 1/4 strength. And go from there.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: Mrshroom]
    #744519 - 08/20/14 03:19 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Free shipping but you need to spend $20+ dollars :wink:


--------------------
Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

Perfect Dry and Cure
View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: Midgetpawn]
    #744526 - 08/20/14 03:45 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Doing some reading on silica now... Apparently you can't overdose with silica, or rather, its probably just really hard...

"Plants deprived of Si are often weaker structurally and more prone to abnormalities of growth, development and reproduction and it is the only nutrient which is not detrimental when collected in excess"

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/100/7/1383.full

Only two or three paragraphs in and it seems like its got all the good info you need... It was the first link in the google search for 'plants and silicates'

"The occurrence of Si within the plant is a result of its uptake, in the form of soluble Si(OH)4 or Si(OH)3O−, from the soil and its controlled polymerization at a final location. However, the ability of a plant to accumulate Si varies greatly between species "


--------------------
Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

Perfect Dry and Cure
View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflineSmokeSomeHash
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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: phychotron]
    #744618 - 08/20/14 11:48 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Dude thats a crazy document on silica...

totally TL DR for now but will check it later for sure


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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: phychotron]
    #746446 - 09/05/14 02:00 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry to bump an old thread but this I thought this would be the best place to ask.

Has anyone done any foliar applications of silica? I bought GH armour si and mixed it at 2.5mL/gal, pH'd to 6.5 and was wondering when should I apply it? Lights on or off?


Edited by webster10 (09/05/14 02:13 PM)


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InvisiblebEelzeBosS
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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: webster10]
    #746470 - 09/05/14 03:35 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Ive never foliar fed with anything but everything Ive read says always lights off. The way my grow room is set up its a pain in the ass to do anything during lights off so I just never tried it.


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Re: Silica brand comparison [Re: bEelzeBosS]
    #746474 - 09/05/14 05:33 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I worry foliar feeding silica could potentially suffocate the leaves, prevent transpiration, and even trap too much heat between a silica coating and the leaf. Though it's probably only a risk if you use excessive amounts of foliar silica. I first thought you HAD to foliar feed silica, but that started to seem wrong, and I figured out that it's taken into the plant on the cellular level via roots or foliage.

Btw apparently the main reason to have the lights off when foliar feeding is to avoid magnifying light and burning the leaves through droplets of water. At least the main reason I'm aware of.

I think armor Si is for sure the best bottled option. Though Agsil 16 blows them all out of the water for cost. I have been applying around 30ppm silica since reading the agsil 16 label. btw if anyone needs a ppm meter, you can get HM's 80$ waterproof EC/PPM for 20$ or less on auction sites. They're probably refurbished.


--------------------
Be sure to read up on "autoflower"/ruderalis seeds before choosing them. Unless you NEED autos, you might do much better with anything else. No more hoarding ultra genetics! We need more of the best not less!


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