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Invisiblethedrake
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phenotypes?
    #723759 - 03/29/14 06:37 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

on average how many different phenotypes are there per cannabis strain?


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Invisibledrawde
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Registered: 11/15/09
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: thedrake] * 1
    #723760 - 03/29/14 06:49 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I'm pretty sure that's something that is just about impossible to nail down.
Phenotypes of what trait? All of them?
What would constitute a difference? It's more like a gradient.
Also take into consideration all the combinations of traits. Some being more independent and others dependent on other traits.
In short... a vast number.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: thedrake] * 1
    #723767 - 03/29/14 07:24 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

thedrake said:
on average how many different phenotypes are there per cannabis strain?




Theoretically, infinity. It just really boils down to how specific you want to get. You could have an identical twin and technically be different phenotypes if his fingernails just grow a little faster than yours.


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Invisiblethedrake
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #723769 - 03/29/14 07:40 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

ok im starting  to understand....i think.
im getting some seeds, and im wondering how many of each strain i should plant for the most chances of getting a plant that most resembles its parents.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: thedrake]
    #723773 - 03/29/14 07:58 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

That's a tough question. If the seeds are from a reputable breeder then all 10 seeds should be really close to the description, but some strains (like Flo for example) are huge crapshoots where you have to pop 40 seeds and hope you get a single pheno worth keeping.


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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: thedrake]
    #723778 - 03/29/14 08:12 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

thedrake said:
on average how many different phenotypes are there per cannabis strain?



OK this in one of those questions, Magash loves to point out the shady ways of today's breeders.

If the breeder does their work, and stabilizes their strain.  Then normally three with the occasional fourth or fifth showing it's head.  But these types of breeders are dying off and hard as hell to find honestly.  Most just refuse to put the time and work into their strains these days.

In fact many breeders now sell what is known as f1's.  And there pretty much isn't nothing stable about an f1.


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:getstoned:


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Invisibledrawde
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: Stoneth]
    #723784 - 03/29/14 08:46 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

So who does?


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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: drawde]
    #723788 - 03/29/14 10:00 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Well honestly it'll take someone with a bit more time and experience than me to fully answer that question.

The only ones I've found personally are Serious Seeds, DJ Short, and Mr. Nice.  I know there are others, but I only speak from experience and I haven't experienced the others rumored to do such.

Hopefully Mag or 81ren will pop in.  They stay more up to date on these things.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Registered: 02/17/11
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: Stoneth]
    #723801 - 03/30/14 05:05 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I just grew out a clone that was purchased for $10,000. My buddy wasn't suppose to give out his friends special cut but I just happened to need clones at the time he had a few extra. $10k might sound like a lot but to a serious grower doing many pounds at a time thats really only ~4lbs for the cut. Plus the search for that perfect pheno could cost you that much in seeds and years worth of effort trying out plants.

The struggle for that super dank one in a million seed that shows all others to shame is a hard one. Every once in awhile you come across that person with that bud that is super fire and makes you rethink how dank bud can get. That comes from a guy who's found his plant. Its where these legendary strains come from, and the reason why they are usually 'clone only' because they want to keep that specific plants DNA. You can order the cup winning seeds from the banks but you have to go through and find that elusive cup winning pheno.


This bud is some fire, super nice dense indica with great flavor, all the nuggets are solid even the ones toward the lower branches was nugged up well. I also had the light much higher than I should have because of 2-seeds-turned sativa. They were about 18" lower than I normally have them (so about 3' away)

The structure in veg was superb and I knew it was going to do well. I had to put them into flower a little earlier than I like and they stayed short but kicked so much ass. I'm going to try and get that one again and maybe do a more serious run with it.





With all that aside, there are generally just a few main phenotypes, I'd guess about ~1-6 depending on the strain. You'll find that even though one plant might not have grown the fastest or grew the largest buds, but the flavor is off the charts. You have to separate all the buds from all the plants and dry/cure separately and sample before you can honestly choose which one you want to keep as a mother. Its a lot of work but worth it when you find the one thats good enough.

http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/GrapeGod/Next_Generation_Seed_Company/
thats got a lot of strain lineage, and it also has a "known phenotypes" in the top right.


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Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

Perfect Dry and Cure
View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Offlinehamloaf
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Registered: 10/21/13
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: Stoneth]
    #723815 - 03/30/14 09:45 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stoneth said:
Quote:

thedrake said:
on average how many different phenotypes are there per cannabis strain?



OK this in one of those questions, Magash loves to point out the shady ways of today's breeders.

If the breeder does their work, and stabilizes their strain.  Then normally three with the occasional fourth or fifth showing it's head.  But these types of breeders are dying off and hard as hell to find honestly.  Most just refuse to put the time and work into their strains these days.

In fact many breeders now sell what is known as f1's.  And there pretty much isn't nothing stable about an f1.



That's some fuckin' bullshit!  :nonono:


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: hamloaf]
    #723840 - 03/30/14 11:21 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

But f1's are extremely vigorous growing plants.  There are reasons for growing them. 


And this 10,000 for a clone is fucking bullshit.  Anyone who would pay that is fucking retarded.  And anyone who would charge that is a huge fucking douchebag.


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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #723851 - 03/30/14 12:29 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

As mentioned Serious Seeds, DJ Short, and Mr. Nice are all good as are Soma, Sensi. There is a old company that many have forgotten about including myself till I recently saw a grow with one of their strains is Sagarmatha Seeds.

I'd stay away from Dutch Passion, Green House, and most the other Amsterdam companies cause they use mostly F1s. Now as Hawk said there are plenty of good reasons to use them esp if you're hunting down breeding material.

Its the guys that sell F1's but tell you that their seeds will do this or have that taste and so on yet they forget to tell you about having to hunt down the strains that have that taste or trait you're looking for in a ton of phenos. The closest to getting a plant like the original is if it was selfed or S1. That is when pollen taken from a female (not from a hermie that is false. I've explained the process before) and used on itself. You can treat just one branch of a plant to get female pollen and use it on the rest of the plant. yadda yadda yadda........

:happyweed:


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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,491
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #723872 - 03/30/14 03:28 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hawksapprentice said:
And this 10,000 for a clone is fucking bullshit.  Anyone who would pay that is fucking retarded.  And anyone who would charge that is a huge fucking douchebag.




Some people are really bad hoarders of strains. One guy wouldn't hook me up with a Blackberry clone until he left town. But its not that expensive if you have 50lbs coming in and someone takes 4 to upgrade your cut of weed an extra notch or two. Cost is merely a matter of grower scale. Its well worth it for one of those premium pheno's. This one truly is a great cut. It grows and smokes like a boss.

But ya, still douchebaggery at play, its just a plant and it would be nice if people would share.


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Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

Perfect Dry and Cure
View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: phychotron]
    #723877 - 03/30/14 03:48 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I understand how the cost could be insignificant depending on your grow size.  But either way it's unbelievably stupid.


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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Registered: 02/17/11
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #723879 - 03/30/14 04:01 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Word. But as I sit here and smoke this bowl I'm glad the guy bought it.


--------------------
Authorized Medical Marijuana patient. Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws.

Perfect Dry and Cure
View My Garden
Latest Grow Log - Grapegod under LED

Try adding a tablespoon of cooking oil to your bong water to keep it clean. The oil soluble resin stays off the glass.


“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: hamloaf]
    #723883 - 03/30/14 04:19 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
Quote:

Stoneth said:
Quote:

thedrake said:
on average how many different phenotypes are there per cannabis strain?



OK this in one of those questions, Magash loves to point out the shady ways of today's breeders.

If the breeder does their work, and stabilizes their strain.  Then normally three with the occasional fourth or fifth showing it's head.  But these types of breeders are dying off and hard as hell to find honestly.  Most just refuse to put the time and work into their strains these days.

In fact many breeders now sell what is known as f1's.  And there pretty much isn't nothing stable about an f1.



That's some fuckin' bullshit!  :nonono:



Really?
Then by all means educate me.  I know I don't know all, but I'm always willing to learn.:smile:


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:getstoned:


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Offlinehamloaf
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Registered: 10/21/13
Posts: 164
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Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: phenotypes? [Re: Stoneth]
    #723889 - 03/30/14 05:43 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

No.  Wait.  What?  Haha, I was saying that it is bullshit that the breeders these days don't really take the years it takes to stabilize a strain yet don't advertise that they are selling F1's and or are straight up lying passing their F1's off as stabilized strains.  Not that what you were saying is bullshit, lol.


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InvisibleStonethM
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: hamloaf]
    #723892 - 03/30/14 05:49 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:
OK you just threw me off there a bit.:lol:


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:getstoned:


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: Stoneth]
    #723904 - 03/30/14 06:18 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

It threw me off as well.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #723908 - 03/30/14 06:27 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

That's why I hate the seed hunt, I wish there was a way to just always grab the clone genetics.


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