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InvisibleStonethM
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
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Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 24,971
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #723927 - 03/30/14 05:42 PM (10 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
That's why I hate the seed hunt, I wish there was a way to just always grab the clone genetics.



:highfive:
This a thousand times over.
If I had access to proven clone genetics, I'd never pop a seed again.


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:getstoned:

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Invisiblethedrake
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Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 101
Re: phenotypes? [Re: Stoneth]
    #723954 - 03/30/14 07:41 PM (10 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
As mentioned Serious Seeds, DJ Short, and Mr. Nice are all good as are Soma, Sensi. There is a old company that many have forgotten about including myself till I recently saw a grow with one of their strains is Sagarmatha Seeds.

I'd stay away from Dutch Passion, Green House, and most the other Amsterdam companies cause they use mostly F1s. Now as Hawk said there are plenty of good reasons to use them esp if you're hunting down breeding material.

Its the guys that sell F1's but tell you that their seeds will do this or have that taste and so on yet they forget to tell you about having to hunt down the strains that have that taste or trait you're looking for in a ton of phenos. The closest to getting a plant like the original is if it was selfed or S1. That is when pollen taken from a female (not from a hermie that is false. I've explained the process before) and used on itself. You can treat just one branch of a plant to get female pollen and use it on the rest of the plant. yadda yadda yadda........

:happyweed:



i may be wrong but iirc i remember you talking down about somas seeds. or maybe it was the way he produces his fem seeds. are you saying all his seeds are good or just the regular?
ok you confused me a bit with the f1 and s1 stuff, the place i ordered from doesnt say if they are f1 or s1. except for the freebies that im getting with my order, one is called kosher kush s1 and another freebie im getting is called tangie s1. the rest of the seeds im getting doesnt say if they are f1,f2, or s1.

heres the breeders and strains that i ordered,
heavyweight seeds: budzilla/fem. and strawberry cheesecake/fem
greenhouse seeds:  white rhino/fem.
cream of the crop seeds: sour turbo diesel/fem.
i know greenhouse seeds are not a very reputable seed bank but the whole order was a group buy and this is what 1 guy wanted. i tried telling him to pick seeds froma different breeder but i could not convince him. oh well im not the one whos going to end up with a bunch of hermies or questionable genetics. :ohwell:

the freebies im getting, the website only gave me the strain names so i have no idea who/where they came from.or if they are fem. or regular.they are:

animal cookies
girl scout cookies
kosher kush s1
tangie s1
kosher kush X girl scout cookies
tangie kosher kush
cherry bomb/fem

so is it safe to assume that the seeds not marked as f1 or s1 are seeds from selfed plants?


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InvisibleMagashM
The Feminizer
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Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: thedrake]
    #723955 - 03/30/14 08:03 PM (10 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

i may be wrong but iirc i remember you talking down about somas seeds. or maybe it was the way he produces his fem seeds.




You are exactly right. I hate the way he makes his fems but he has great genetics. His regulars are pretty killer.

Ok as for the breeders if they are S1s or fems they are gonna tell you. The same goes for F2s they are going to tell you and in most cases F2s will cost less. If a breeder has a strain of the same name as another breeder it's usually a knock off or a F2 of the original breeders strain.

Example many banks sell a version of blueberry. The true version is from DJ Short cause he is the original breeder.

S1s are fems by the way.

:happyweed:


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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


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Invisiblethedrake
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Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 101
Re: phenotypes? [Re: Magash]
    #723965 - 03/30/14 10:16 PM (10 years, 1 day ago)

yeah the seeds that i paid for told me if they were regular or feminized. none of them said f1 or s1 or s1 in the description.
but i think im understanding this a little bit better.

F1s are the first generation of seeds produced from distinctly different parental types. which produce seeds that are homozygous for the most part. now is it up to the breeder to make sure that the parents are homozygous enough to produce homozygous f1 seeds?or are all F1s homozygous enough to produce plants that resembles their parents? are all regular cannabis seeds homozygous F1s?
(ex1: say you took two seeds of dj shorts blueberry. one turned out to be a male(wit phenotype XX
and a with a female phenotype XX. now if you pollinated the bb female with the bb male. would the resulting seeds be homozygous F1s, or Heterozygous F1s or just some F2s that could give you offspring that resemble mom or dad or most likely a wide mix of the two?
F2s are the offspring of two f1 seeds/plants mating?

now with the S1s, are all fems. S1s? or just all S1s are fems.?
im thinking that the S1s are only the seeds that were produce by forcing the female to produce female pollen, and then using that pollen to pollinate a different plant that came from the same mother?

nvmd me saying im starting to understand. the more i read into the more confusing it gets. :confused:
thanks for the help guys, you guys are really helping me understand this stuff.
man i dont remember learning about Gregor Mendeland his pea expierments back in the 4th grade to be this hard and cunfusing..................................................................................if i wasnt on cannabis,etizolam,ethylphenidate, and kratom when i was trying to learn it might be a bit easier.  :crazy3
:cryng:
sorry for all questions















Edited by thedrake (03/30/14 11:10 PM)

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InvisiblephychotronM
Medicated


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly) Flag
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #723978 - 03/31/14 01:43 AM (10 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
That's why I hate the seed hunt, I wish there was a way to just always grab the clone genetics.




Thats how my buddy got the $10k cut, he was asked to take care of the plants and he took a quick snip on a lower branch.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
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“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein

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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Registered: 04/20/08
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: phychotron] * 2
    #723979 - 03/31/14 01:47 AM (10 years, 1 day ago)

That man is an evil genius :hi5:


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InvisibleMagashM
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Posts: 6,634
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: thedrake] * 1
    #723981 - 03/31/14 02:58 AM (10 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

or are all F1s homozygous enough to produce plants that resembles their parents?




Nope. You have to go threw a ton of phenos

Quote:

are all regular cannabis seeds homozygous F1s?




Nope.


Quote:

ex1: say you took two seeds of dj shorts blueberry. one turned out to be a male(wit phenotype XX
and a with a female phenotype XX. now if you pollinated the bb female with the bb male. would the resulting seeds be homozygous F1s, or Heterozygous F1s or just some F2s that could give you offspring that resemble mom or dad or most likely a wide mix of the two?




F2 with a wide mix of the two



Quote:

now with the S1s, are all fems. S1s? or just all S1s are fems.?




All S1s are fems but not all fems are S1s. You can also have F1 fems. :wexican:

:happyweed:


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:

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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
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Re: phenotypes? [Re: thedrake]
    #724046 - 03/31/14 12:12 PM (10 years, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

thedrake said:
yeah the seeds that i paid for told me if they were regular or feminized. none of them said f1 or s1 or s1 in the description.
but i think im understanding this a little bit better.

F1s are the first generation of seeds produced from distinctly different parental types. which produce seeds that are homozygous for the most part. now is it up to the breeder to make sure that the parents are homozygous enough to produce homozygous f1 seeds?or are all F1s homozygous enough to produce plants that resembles their parents? are all regular cannabis seeds homozygous F1s?
(ex1: say you took two seeds of dj shorts blueberry. one turned out to be a male(wit phenotype XX
and a with a female phenotype XX. now if you pollinated the bb female with the bb male. would the resulting seeds be homozygous F1s, or Heterozygous F1s or just some F2s that could give you offspring that resemble mom or dad or most likely a wide mix of the two?
F2s are the offspring of two f1 seeds/plants mating?

now with the S1s, are all fems. S1s? or just all S1s are fems.?
im thinking that the S1s are only the seeds that were produce by forcing the female to produce female pollen, and then using that pollen to pollinate a different plant that came from the same mother?

nvmd me saying im starting to understand. the more i read into the more confusing it gets. :confused:
thanks for the help guys, you guys are really helping me understand this stuff.
man i dont remember learning about Gregor Mendeland his pea expierments back in the 4th grade to be this hard and cunfusing..................................................................................if i wasnt on cannabis,etizolam,ethylphenidate, and kratom when i was trying to learn it might be a bit easier.  :crazy3
:cryng:
sorry for all questions




















Cannabis doesn't act differently than any other organism on the planet as far as chromosomal division goes. If you lay out the Punnett Square it'll give you a general idea. In your example with both parents being bb you'd have a homozygous offspring with the progeny resembling a fairly even mix of both parents, but if one or both of the parents is Bb or BB (which is very likely if you get the seeds from a "pollen chucker") then you'll have a wildly heterozygous array of offspring.

      B    b
B)  BB Bb
b)  Bb bb

In that example you end up with every possible array due to the non stabilized genotypes leading to unpredictable phenotypic expression. A good breeder will find the traits he likes (large single cola, and citrusy smell for example) and pollinate that mother with strong male pollen. He will then grow out the seeds from that, choose the females that most closely resemble that mother and then re-pollinate. This process repeats until every seed that's produced (for the most part) has those desirable traits. That's what everyone means when they say a stabilized strain.


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InvisibleP-O


Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 17,891
Re: phenotypes? [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #724119 - 03/31/14 05:59 PM (10 years, 15 hours ago)

Great thread guys... def a good read :thumbup:

Makes sense why cutts are more dependable, and why some growers dont wanna share their genetics.  fuck payin 10k for a cutting imo.

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