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InvisibleInocuole
The Wind Fish

Registered: 01/29/14
Posts: 212
Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance
    #710623 - 01/30/14 04:01 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Hello, I've been lurking for a few days and picking up some info on teks and training and nutes, really all manner of things, and I'm starting to formulate an idea of what kind of setup I want to use for my first grow.  Before taking an interest in this I've been a member on the sister site Shroomery since 2008 so I've had some good experience with that in the past (and present) which means I know where to get a lot of the supplies this hobby calls for already.

I'll preface this by saying I'm gonna spam you guys with some links.  I know that's a noob thing to do generally (mind turns to 1000s of threads on shroomery with people linking bunk ass grow kits, forum veterans facepalm, thread closure ensues) but I don't want to purchase bunk gear for this, I pretty much have my whole tax return to blow on whatever I want and this is what I'm leaning toward heavily.  In that respect, I wanna keep it kind of small but I also want to go big or go home with what I do grow.  So here it is.

TEK

I'm going to go ahead and go with hempy buckets, I've decided that for certain.  A quick look around has led me to believe that's the most economic and fruitful first grow setup I could be using, and probably one I'll stick with due to the simplicity of it.  I'm somewhat torn between scrog and just low stress training them (since I'm using bagseed, scrog might be harder)  I get most of how that works and don't have many questions there, but I'm going to start with these links now, of what I have been eyeballing.

AREA

For my grow space, I wanted to use a grow tent.  I was leaning between a 36"x36"x73" grow tent and one that's 50"x50"x79".  More heavily toward the larger one.  Both essentially have the same design aside from the size:  http://www.amazon.com/MILLIARD-Mylar-Reflective-Hydroponic-Window/dp/B00ETBDXZU/

Nay, yay, eh, okay?

As I understand it this will be 100% necessary because I am growing indoors in an apartment and I MUST contain the smell and be able to drape something over it or at least disguise it enough to be like "oh that's just our portable closet, no worries", although it'll be in the bedroom and it's unlikely anyone will ask.  Without doubt, the biggest concern is the smell though.

Because I am using a tent it follows that I will need a fan and a filter, or rather, probably two fans, (in and out) correct?  I was looking to just jump right in for quality and go with a Phresh carbon filter but I don't know what size I should choose, and I think it depends on my lighting and my fan, which is what I'll touch on now.

LIGHTING

I'm pretty certain I'm going with a 600W ballast with mh/hps bulbs, but I'm open to suggestions.  I would rather have 2-3 plants with some solid super dank nugs than a dozen spindly motherfuckers with some intermittent popcorn.  This is the light I was looking at: 
http://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Horticulture-GLK600GW19-Digital-Dimmable/dp/B004L3AQ1U

Got some good reviews there but what do you guys think?

---

Those are the only pieces I've gotten a good look at so far.  I know I want to go with a 3 part nutrient system with the typical grow/bloom/micro so I can control those variables, and that I'll also need something to balance and test PH.  Any recommendations there?  I thought I'd check local shops for some of those things so I can pay in cash for at least some of this.


TL:DR

I need help figuring out the following:
-Will my choice of ballast/lighting work with the tent I settled on?
-Leaving at least one constant (the light or the tent), are there any recommendations of changes that you'd suggest, such as higher wattage on the light, CFPM of the fan/filter, etc?
-How do I know what type of fan to match with a filter?
-Given the items I chose, or based on your recommendations, how many plants could I fit into this space in 3 gallon hempy buckets?
-If I were to scrog my plants, what's a common way of hanging the screen?  I imagine the tent's internal structure should provide something to work off of but I'm a little at a loss.
-Can anyone with experience with hempy buckets fill me in on exactly what you're supposed to do with that extra water that runs out of the hole when you water it.  That seems like it could invite mold if it's not wiped up every time.  I guess that's the solution?


I'll reiterate the specs here:

Grow tent size is 50"x50"x79"  (or 36"x36"x73" if you think I should?)
600W Ballast with MH and HPS
3 Gallon buckets

I need these:
-Fan size/speed
-Filter specifications
-Nutrient recommendations if you've got em.
-# of plants recommended
-LST or scrog?

Anything helps.  This forum doesn't seem to be quite as active as it once was, and people always DELETE THEIR FUCKING PICTURES OF THEIR GROWS, so it's been hard to find some of what I've been looking for.  Thanks in advance!

I think that's everything... =\
:thataintright:


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Inocuole]
    #710681 - 01/30/14 07:33 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Go for the bigger tent, that will give you more room to expand and upgrade later on. 

With that size tent, you have about 112 CF.  You need to have at least 3 times that for air flow.  So a 400CFM inline would be appropriate.  The filter can be attached to that.  I would go with a vortex fan, and a phresh filter. 

For the size of the tent that you are getting, if you go with the larger one, I would run a 1000watt light.  That reflector is a piece of shit.  Get yourself something decent.  Like this 

http://www.rvfgardensupply.com/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=904655

It going to help cut down on heat in the grow space, and also allow you to get the light close to the plants.  If you don't get a sealed vented hood, you are going to regret it. 

# of plants is a personal preference.  You could do 2 under a 1000 watter, or 40.  It all depends on the type of grow you feel like doing.  I prefer to do less plants and allow them to get a bit bigger. 

Nutrients, I prefer Botainicaire.  But there are a lot of good lines.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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InvisibleInocuole
The Wind Fish

Registered: 01/29/14
Posts: 212
Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #710692 - 01/30/14 08:01 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I've heard a lot about Botanicaire and if they have it stocked locally I'll probably end up getting it.  I see this is probably going to run me a bit more than I initially expected but the results should surely pay for themselves I'd think.

So, what you're saying, on the topic of the light, is that this fixture you linked here will actually run cooler than that 600W despite being more powerful overall?  Does that light need it's own fan, come with one already, or is it designed to fit in the top exhaust port, or, what's up with that?  Actually, that fixture doesn't seem to be specifically rated, could I swap out bulbs of different wattages?  I'm definitely not opposed to going 1000W, I'm going to take a few energy saving precautions around the house to counter it anyway.  So if I decided to take your advice and get the 8" reflector you linked I'd need to get my own MH and HPS bulbs, correct?  Also do you have specific experience with that reflector or is that just one of the ones you know is good via observation/word of mouth?

Regarding the fan, if I just get, say a 6" 400CFM fan any 6" filter should be able to fit right onto that, right?  May seem like I want clarification on weird stuff but, having put many things together, especially computers, I don't assume to know that anything is just going to fit magically. =P  The cost of a vortex fan together with a phresh filter is a little daunting, I must say, unless you know where to get a good deal on a combo?  Also, does that mean I'd only use the one inline fan w/ filter (at the top to pull out the warm air) and let the cool air leak in passively or am I looking at two potentially expensive fans for in and out?

I appreciate your advice and was hoping it'd be you or one of the other regulars who responded, it's not hard to tell you're one of the people who know their stuff the best.  Thanks again!


Edited by Inocuole (01/30/14 08:45 PM)


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Inocuole]
    #710699 - 01/30/14 09:17 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Well your ballast is going to determine the wattage of bulb you are putting into it.  So whatever ballast you get, you are set with that wattage of bulb.  The reflector is separate from that.

Now if you are going to get that reflector, you will want to get an inline fan that is the same size of the ports in the reflector.  The more air you move in your space the better.  400 is just the minimum that I would go with.

Here's how you will set this up.  Carbon filter -> Inline fan -> Reflector -> Outside the tent.

Now you can hang the filter at the top, as long as the tent you get is VERY strong.  Those carbon filters are very fucking heavy. 

Yeah this hobby is expensive, but the cost is definitely offset by how much you can yield, as long as you do everything right, and aren't a complete idiot.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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InvisibleInocuole
The Wind Fish


Registered: 01/29/14
Posts: 212
Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #710708 - 01/30/14 09:57 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Ah crap so the reflector holds the ballast as well?  That seems like an awful lot of shit to be hanging from the top of that tent.  Fuck.  I'm wondering if ~1000 dollars is actually going to be enough for this...
Tent- 115
Nutes/PH: ~100
Reflector-170
Ballast with lights- 200ish?
fan: 170
filter: 170

That's already 925 and I'm pretty damn sure I'm missing some things.  Not even counting the perlite/buckets/verm and whatever I start my seedlings in.

  :herpyderp:

Am I just finding some shitty prices or is this really the overhead I should've been planning for to get a fairly decent product?


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Inocuole]
    #710716 - 01/30/14 10:36 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

No, the ballast is not connected to the reflector.  Not sure how you inferred that one. 


The prices you are stating seem reasonable for quality products.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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InvisibleInocuole
The Wind Fish


Registered: 01/29/14
Posts: 212
Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #710728 - 01/30/14 10:57 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I guess I wasn't sure what to infer.  If the reflector is for the light, and the ballast is also attached to the light.. well, they both gotta go somewhere somehow.  I'm gonna have to scale things a little lower I think for the time being though.  I still want the big tent and quality nutes and a good filter, but I'll probably need to cut some kind of corner somewhere to make do while I get more funds together.

But while I'm staring at a number feeling a burning sensation in my pocket, was there anything vital missing from that list that'd be necessary or would that actually cover it?

Because if 925 really is my final number for equipment and I can afford it I'll god damn fucking do it if it means I never have to pay another asshole 100 dollars or more for a quarter oz again.


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Inocuole]
    #710732 - 01/30/14 11:14 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

pH tester?  PPM tester?


You can get a cheap pH tester, the little drop ones can work for you just fine for a long time. 

I never used hempy buckets, so I can't really comment on those.

You can go ahead and get a lower wattage light and what not, but if you skimp on the reflector, you will end up having heat issues.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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InvisibleInocuole
The Wind Fish


Registered: 01/29/14
Posts: 212
Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #710735 - 01/30/14 11:27 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

So regardless of what I do, definitely ensure I have a sealed reflector that can attach to a fan, correct?  I'd wanna attach the filter to that fan as well and use it for the heat output, just to make sure I understand?

I can handle the business with the hempy buckets on my own, more or less, those are what intimidate me the least about all this.  It's all this equipment that I've never used before that's got me sketched mostly.  In that regard, you can pretend I'm growing in soil for all it matters.

I know there's cheap pH testers but the PPM tester is pretty expensive no?  Is there a cheap semi-temporary alternative for that as well?  I don't mind something being a little more work at first, I know I can eventually spend money on new stuff for this again.

And thank you again for checking back in here every so often.  I'm kind of surprised it's only you chiming in here but if you didn't it'd still be at 0 replies so seriously, thanks, a lot.  Consultation about these things is hard to find.

Also, is this a fan/filter combo I'm seeing?  http://www.amazon.com/Phresh-Filter-400CFM-Active-Air/dp/B00HFEGSCI  If so, that could save some money, for sure, if you approve of deviation from a vortex fan while I'm getting sorted, anyway.  I'm sure I can find a few ways to get some deals on what I need if I can mix and match a bit.


Edited by Inocuole (01/31/14 12:18 PM)


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OfflineTank333
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Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Inocuole]
    #710751 - 01/31/14 12:42 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Because if 925 really is my final number for equipment and I can afford it I'll god damn fucking do it if it means I never have to pay another asshole 100 dollars or more for a quarter oz again.




Honestly, you're gonna want to just about double that number, bro. Yea, the initial equipment will be maybe $1250-1400 (the PPM and PH meters will be a little pricey, just remember you get what you pay for. And you will need ducting, and maybe flanges too.). But before the end of your grow, you will find yourself needing this little thing or that, and those little things tend to add up quickly.

But all in all, even if you end up spending $2000 total before your first harvest, if you do things right you should be able to at least yield that much worth of usable product, if not more!


--------------------
My best run so far


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InvisibleInocuole
The Wind Fish


Registered: 01/29/14
Posts: 212
Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Tank333]
    #710753 - 01/31/14 12:59 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Well, I understand that I'll get out what I put into it but not having money is why I'm in this situation so I've gotta start somewhere.  I just want to get some of the more permanent fixtures and make shit work with them for now while I get things perfected.  I'll spend however much I need to but when I'm all out of money and I just have a half-working grow setup that won't do me any good either.  I've heard of people growing on far less and getting some pretty dank results, though.


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InvisibleInocuole
The Wind Fish


Registered: 01/29/14
Posts: 212
Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Inocuole]
    #710754 - 01/31/14 01:17 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

But then I guess I'm the noob coming up on the forum gaping slack jawed at the prices everyone else here readily paid to enjoy their hobby.  So there's that for me to think about for a bit.  =P


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Inocuole]
    #710755 - 01/31/14 01:36 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Well you can get away with less.  But to avoid having issues during the grow is why I am recommending what I am.


That link wasn't working for me.  Can't comment on it.

Eco-Plus is a good alternative to vortex fan wise. 


From my understanding hempy buckets are a soilless way of growing.  It's a good idea to have a ppm meter for those things.  They run about 100 bucks.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineTank333
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Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #710785 - 01/31/14 02:29 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

hawksapprentice said:
Well you can get away with less.  But to avoid having issues during the grow is why I am recommending what I am.

From my understanding hempy buckets are a soilless way of growing.  It's a good idea to have a ppm meter for those things.  They run about 100 bucks.




This is key right here. You COULD just buy a light a tent a bucket and some cheap ass nutes and use JUST that.  There are people that do okay doing that. But to get top notch results that make your investment and time worth it, you'll want to invest in good equipment. There's quite a few things that you SHOULD have that you don't NEED to have right away... Shit, my next cool gadget I want for my room is an automatic PH dispenser. Costs almost $500! But I won't ever have to worry about forgetting to check the PH again! Lol


As far as a ppm meter, you don't HAVE to have it. I don't. I just have a bluelab PH meter. I replace my rez once a week (and in heavy drinking periods in flower sometimes every 5 days), and it works well for me. BUT, to take myself to the next level in dialing in my nutrient regimen, I should invest in a decent one.


--------------------
My best run so far


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InvisibleInocuole
The Wind Fish


Registered: 01/29/14
Posts: 212
Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Tank333]
    #710858 - 01/31/14 11:37 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I understand, and that makes total sense.  I've been spending the last day or so talking it out and thinking it over and I think I'm more or less ready to put in investments wherever they're most worthwhile.  I know for a fact that however many dollars spent, no matter how many dollars, you WILL have that value made up in the first harvest, unless you just plain suck at utilizing your gear.  And I don't think that'll be me, I follow instructions pretty well.  I appreciate all the advice and appreciate anything anybody's got, even if I don't have any other questions at this exact moment, I'm sure I will.


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Inocuole]
    #710867 - 02/01/14 01:05 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Environment is going to be one of the biggest factors in making the difference between really good yield/weed and just mediocre.  They need x amount of constant fresh air to be happy.  They prefer lower temps as well, although that by far is not always 100% true.  I have made runs with my temps in the 90's the whole way through, with great results.  But not all strains can handle high temps. 

And you don't need all the different additives to get a really good grow down.  You could just use the 3 part base from fox farms and do really, really well.

Are you completely stuck on the hempy buckets?


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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InvisibleInocuole
The Wind Fish


Registered: 01/29/14
Posts: 212
Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #710872 - 02/01/14 01:22 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Not completely, but I've seen a few of them and they look like they churn out some really nice results.  What would you recommend alternatively?

Fox Farm and Botanicaire are the #1 brands I've been hearing so I'll certainly be checking out one of the two, would you say if I was just going to start with the 3 part base that Fox Farm would be a better choice?


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Inocuole]
    #710878 - 02/01/14 02:26 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I think that would be a solid economical way to go.  But once you get rolling with more money, and a couple of grows under your belt.  I would look into other brands of nutrients and going beyond the basics


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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InvisibleInocuole
The Wind Fish


Registered: 01/29/14
Posts: 212
Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #711112 - 02/02/14 11:58 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Alright, I've got all my equipment figured out, thanks to Jason over at RVF Garden Supply.  I'm going with a 4'x4' tent (taller than the previous one), and for lighting, 1000k MH/HPS in a 6" reflector.  Everything else is in the budget and should be acquired without issue. 

Thanks again to everybody who chimed in.  I'm probably going to start another thread in mjcult since most questions I have are pretty off topic to grow room design at this point.

:raisemyglass:


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InvisibleInocuole
The Wind Fish


Registered: 01/29/14
Posts: 212
Re: Setting up a grow tent - In need of guidance [Re: Inocuole]
    #714830 - 02/13/14 05:41 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Heey there guys I got all my gear today and I'm setting up the tent.  I have the light hung up properly now and I think I have the general idea of how the ducting and whatnot goes but I thought I'd check first.  I've got a sun hut xl (54"x54"x84") and the exhaust goes out the top on the back-right of the tent.  Given that, I assume intake comes from the left side, works into the reflector, and then back out through that exhaust port in the top. 

What I need confirmation on is, what comes before the reflector, and what comes after the reflector?

The way I had in mind would be Outside Left>Filter>Fan>Reflector>Outside/exhaust port.  The socket of the lamp is on the left side, and the bulb faces toward the right, where the exhaust would be coming out, this is correct, right?  Basically the fan would pull in filtered air, run it past the bulb, then out the tent, I assume not much else is needed there?

I have no flanges, but 4 clamps, and some equipment hangers.  Do I need a flange or does that just help seal it better?

Also, this is a 435cfm fan and is pretty damn loud when it kicks on, do I want this thing on all the time or on a timer separate from the light?  It blows out some ice cold air but having experimented with using fans to cool my CFLs it seems like not having the fan blowing at any given moment would be bad.

Edit:
I don't know if I have room to do it the way I mentioned above.  Would it be terrible if I hooked it up like Fan->Ducting>Reflector>Ducting>Filter?  Or... hm.  Hanging up all of these things seems like a structural pain in the ass.  I ended up just making a peg on the wall outside the tent to hang the ballast on.

I think I can get the fan put in near the entrance of the reflector but it seems like it would be easiest altogether to just throw the filter on at the exhaust point and let it sit on top of the tent, outside of it.  Is there a problem with doing that? 

Or hell, do the opposite and have the filter outside the tent on the LEFT side(intake) so that the fan just sucks through the filter?  I watched a few videos and it kind of seems like it doesn't matter where the filter goes but I want to be sure, you know?  Mostly because after today I don't want to fuck with it for a while.


Edited by Inocuole (02/13/14 06:23 PM)


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