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OfflineFromTheWest
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Still on the first set of leaves
    #666045 - 04/14/13 05:49 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hello,

I have 2 God Buds going.

The one in coco coir + perlite has germinated but it still is on its first set of leaves, and is going light green with a tint of purple forming on the tips, even on the cotyledons.

The other one is in straight coco coir, and it still has not breached the surface of the soil.

Both were germinated in straight water, prior to transplanting them into the medium.

Lighting: ~200W of CFL lightbulbs currently.

Does anyone have an explanation for stunt in growth?

Thanks for taking the time in reading this post, FromTheWest.


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: FromTheWest]
    #666046 - 04/14/13 05:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

How long have they been there?  And if it's just coco, there's little to no nutrients in there.  Your light may not be close enough as well.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineFromTheWest
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #666054 - 04/14/13 06:38 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

It currently has been sown into the medium since March 30th at ~5:30PM (PST).

The lights are roughly 3-4 inches from the top of the coco coir +/- perlite.

I forgot to mention that there was about 0.1 - 0.2 grams of guano (NPK; 2-17-0) in the water they were germinating in.

Would it explain for the current deficiency symptoms? In the sense, the seeds were adjusted to the concentration of nutrients, when they cracked their seed coat? and now with being given practically straight H2O, they are now dependent on external nutrients, since they were trained to at the beginning of life to feed off others rather than its own reserves,being the endosperm?

So to correct this issue, would it be best to give then the bat guano to provide nutrients for them? or should i continue to water them straight? and see if flushing will do anything good for them.

Sorry for the ramble, but as you can visually see, I'm quite worried about the plants overall physic, and want to nurture their growth into maturity.

Thanks, FromTheWest.


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: FromTheWest]
    #666055 - 04/14/13 06:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Well if you're growing in coco, yes, you have to add nutrients.  Do you not have bottled nutrients?


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineFromTheWest
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #666058 - 04/14/13 07:22 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Thank you for the kind words.

And currently I do not have any bottled nutrients, but I can easily get some tomorrow.

I only have mircle grow nutrients & the bat guano that is mentioned.

I have noticed that the bat guano doesn't dissolve too well in the water.

So, if I did but some liquid nutrients, what would you recommend? I am currently going straight into 12/12 of a light cycle. That's why I choose to get the guano that is geared more into flowering rather than vegetative life.

Thanks, FromTheWest.


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OfflineMrshroom
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: FromTheWest]
    #666060 - 04/14/13 07:57 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

umm 12 hours of light off and on wont help u.. u need to stay on 16+ hours a day of light for growth. you only want to go 12on and 12 off for lights when you are flowering.


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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: Mrshroom]
    #666077 - 04/14/13 10:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Well I think that's his intentions man.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineFromTheWest
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #666088 - 04/14/13 11:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Thank you.


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OfflineSmokeSomeHash
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: FromTheWest]
    #666128 - 04/15/13 08:24 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Dude ditch the miracle gro. Bat guanos good...if used right, and theres different kinds (mexican,jamaican, peruvian, etc) that have different npk's.

I recently met a guy who owns a cave in mexico and harvests his own guano. He was showing me the analysis report and it had nitrogen of like 11% and a LOT of trace minerals. He said he uses only guano in hydroponics raft systems with excellent results and only adds epsom salts to supplent magnesium.  I havent done it myself but ive been checking out this guys stuff cuz hes trying to sell me a bunch of shit (literally) and it looks pretty impressive...thint to note though is hes just doin veggies, not the herbzzz

That being said...guanos good, but its not an end-all nute. I too would reccomend you get some bottled nutrients.  Just stay away from stuff at home depot and lowes, a reputable garden center should have good nutrients. Theres many brands that work, just dont do miracle gro. Go with general hydro, fox farm, botanicare, etc.  And if its just straight coir, then i would treat it is a soilless mix and get hydro nutes, not organic stuff...but thats just me


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OfflineFromTheWest
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: SmokeSomeHash]
    #666205 - 04/15/13 07:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting take on the guano, since I believe that the Mexican variety is better for vegetative growth, while the Jamaican is better for flowering growth. Furthermore, bats eat fruits and what not that is filtered by their body, and gives way for the rich texture of nutrients it provides.

Originally, I went into this thinking that I could simply add the guano (NPK; 2-17-0), blackstrap molasses (P; 15, Ca; 8, Fe; 15), and Epsom salt (Mg & S) to cover the nutrients that the plants needs. Also, that the guano would have trace amounts of micronutrients that would cover the remainder of elements that I am not consciously aware of. Basically, I am placing a great emphasis on the powers of bat poop :lol: But, it is apparent that I am simply doing something wrong. Possibly in my technique of adding the guano, because I have only been mixing like 1 gram : 1 liter of H2O. Though, it does say on the packaging that it can easily be applied to the surface of the soil. Anyways, do you have any advice on how to properly apply guano to coco coir +/- perlite.

Thanks, FromTheWest.

P.S. I was a little too cheap to spend money on nutrients, so I went ahead and applied the miracle-gro (NPK; 24-8-16) to the sprout, and seed that has yet to surface.


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: FromTheWest]
    #666235 - 04/15/13 08:58 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Well you don't just add guano to water then give it to your plants.  You mix it with earth worm castings in a sock or some apparatus to keep the contents from floating everywhere.  Then you put that in the water, add an air pump to the water and let it sit for 24 hours.  Take out the sock, squeeze any remaining moisture out of that and then give it to your plants.  Or mix X amount of guano in your soil before you plant.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineSmokeSomeHash
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #666280 - 04/15/13 09:36 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I dont really use coir too much to be honest. Like hawks said, guanos are best used in compost teas. Ill use mexican for gro and jamacan for flower. Ive never been a big user of it outside the realm of teas, but the guy i mentioned earlier has been showing me pictures of tomatos in a dwc raft system that he just dumps guano into.

Now as far as ive read, organics dont work too well in hydro systems for reasons i wont go into here to save page long essays, but this guy swears to me all he does is fill an aerated resrvoir with water, mixes the guano, some epsom salt, mixes and puts the plants on the floating raft. And yeah thats it. Sounds too easy to be true but he swears by it and im trying to go out to his cave myself this summer and see all this stuff first hand. He was tellin me some shit that years ago they had to supplement calcium and other stuff but then they had a river overflow the cave and now they have supercharged guanos with micros...i dunno. It sorta ounds like bullshit to me but who knows maybe this guys onto something.

http://naturalgrowthguano.webs.com/

Thats a link to his page, they have a facebook page too.

Now im not saying guanos an end all cure, (this other guy sorta is though)...im just throwin in stuff ive seen around here and im on my phone on da toilet so i tend to rant off...


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OfflineFromTheWest
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: SmokeSomeHash]
    #666554 - 04/17/13 06:41 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

lol good toilet rant :smile:

Well after applying that miracle-gro the second set of leaves are appearing now, though the other plant has not breached the surface yet.

As you mentioned hawk, about the pumps and what not to make the tea. I would go through that procedure in producing a fine tea, and maybe even throw in a couple of banana and orange peels for added co-enzymes. But, the issue is that I don't possess a bubble air pump thing you mentioned. So I'm going to let the contents of the guano just saturate into the tap water for a day or two, until the plants need to be watered again. Hopefully, I'll be able to get some coffee filters, and fill them with guano, then sow or tie it so the contents don't leak. Anyways, thanks for the support hawk  :teabird:

Cool to know about guano Smoke, I'm sure this guy isn't having a case of megalomania over his cave. I would like to go to Mexico just for fun, too. For now, the solutes that will be given to the plant are the guano, Epsom salt, and molasses. I will report back to you guys in about a week to inform you all about the progress that is taking place with these God Bud plants.

Thanks again both of you  :sunny:


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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: FromTheWest]
    #666555 - 04/17/13 06:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

You need to aerate the water.  You can't just let it sit from my understanding.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineMaestro
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #666558 - 04/17/13 07:46 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

That's what I don't get about coir.. You water it normally or every day or every 12 hours? Doesn't it hold too much water and not enough oxygen in the root zone?

There's a bunch of people doing great with coir and then a bunch of fail. Hard to tell really. :hmm:


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I am Thread Killer.


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OfflineFromTheWest
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: Maestro]
    #666563 - 04/17/13 08:38 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Ya, I went into this coco coir project thinking it would be easy as walking. But, it's apparent in my situation that I'm failing :lol:

I called the local pet stores for an aquarium pump, and the cheapest one is 12.99 for it. Though that is a bit out of my price range for the next two weeks... (don't ask)

For now I'll just invert the bottle ever hour or so to get the guano mixing everywhere. Although, this method is severally inefficient when compared to the aquarium pump working around the clock.

For now I'll continue to water, when the top is dry, with the solution that I have concocted, because of my deficit.

Thanks for the hints and tips :smile:

P.S. I'll peek my head in here often, since Shroomery is just a click away, and vice-versa.


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OfflineSmokeSomeHash
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: FromTheWest]
    #666586 - 04/18/13 07:47 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

If youre not going to aerate it i wouldnt bother. The whole point is to oxygenate the water so bacterias can grow. If youre using molasses one thing you should notice is that when you aerate it it froths up real bad and gets foam everywhere. This is what you want as it is a sign that the microbes are doin their thing. If its not frothing up then all the beneficial stuff isnt multiplying and is probably dying off due to lack of oxygen. Thats also why you should NEVER add molasses to a hydro system cuz itll foam up the whole thing.

Youll get some nutrients from just steeping the guano but it wont be nearly the same as making a proper tea that was aerated at least 24hrs.

Ive never used teas with that much coir, i use soil. Ill mix a lil coir here and there but i dont use it straight. I have ONE tomato in pure coir...and i dont like it.

Just mix the guano in your medium. And be careful about mixing "slow release" organics with synthetics.


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OfflineMaestro
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: FromTheWest]
    #666605 - 04/18/13 11:36 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

FromTheWest said:
Ya, I went into this coco coir project thinking it would be easy as walking. But, it's apparent in my situation that I'm failing :lol:

I called the local pet stores for an aquarium pump, and the cheapest one is 12.99 for it. Though that is a bit out of my price range for the next two weeks... (don't ask)

For now I'll just invert the bottle ever hour or so to get the guano mixing everywhere. Although, this method is severally inefficient when compared to the aquarium pump working around the clock.

For now I'll continue to water, when the top is dry, with the solution that I have concocted, because of my deficit.

Thanks for the hints and tips :smile:

P.S. I'll peek my head in here often, since Shroomery is just a click away, and vice-versa.




The most often you should add that shit(literary) is every other day. Switch it up with straight H2O But I don't see why you can't make a proper tea. You can use a tea bag prolly. Just open that bottle, let it sit for a day, filter out the pieces with a cloth.
Then you will at least be using a sorta nutrient solution kinda.

Sorry, just trying to help out :facepalm3:


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OfflineFromTheWest
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: Maestro]
    #666646 - 04/18/13 07:22 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the kind words of support.

I do agree that the aeration does support an optimal environment for beneficial bacteria to thrive upon. Furthermore, it will be less of a shock to those bacteria once in the medium. Since, the environment will allow for the bacteria to have more exposure to oxygen, instead of being fermented in the bottle then the rapid exposure to air.

Though as I have already stated, I currently have no cash available until its time. So for now, I'll hope that the bacteria that go through fermentation in anaerobic conditions, will provide the essential nutrients that my plant needs.

In the near future, I'll probably go back to soil since it is way easier to grow with. Plus, I could mix in some mycelium that I have cultivated from oyster mushrooms and what not. Hopefully, the mycelium will have a mutual relationship with the cannabis plant(s). Anyways, as Maestro mentions, I'll take the easy way out for now.

Thanks, FromTheWest.

P.S. the plant in coco coir + perlite has a second set of leaves coming in fairly nice, and its regaining its vigour in terms of colour. As for the other one, it still has not broken the surface, but I can hope.


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OfflineFromTheWest
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Re: Still on the first set of leaves [Re: FromTheWest]
    #667122 - 04/22/13 06:41 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hello,

Development is going well, with one plant on its third set of leaves. While, the other one is still underground.

The mixture of water, guano, molasses, and Epsom salt at a ratio of 500:5:1:1 with a pH of ~6.5. I have noticed that simply mixing molasses and water will bring up the pH from ~6.2 to ~6.5. Furthermore, the guano and Epsom salt doesn't alter the pH when added to the solution. Thus, providing an optimal pH for my developing plants, and hopefully for the beneficial bacteria/archaea as well.

Anyways, just wanted to say thanks in guiding my way through the muck :sun:

Happy Earth day, FromTheWest!


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