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OfflineJohnny420

Registered: 04/21/08
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Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves
    #51835 - 06/05/08 06:56 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I have a quick question...

If the fan leaves were damaged to the point of dying around the edges and still being slightly yellow would you recommend trimming the damaged leaves off or leaving them to  see if they die completely/recover?


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves [Re: Johnny420]
    #51839 - 06/05/08 07:04 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

it depends how damaged they are. I leave my unhealthy leaves on the plant until they're completely yellow, I was told that dying leaves contribute to the plant as nutrient reserves.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #51840 - 06/05/08 07:05 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Oh and I should add that some leaves WILL recover. When the problem was a nitrogen deficiency the plants showed a 100% recovery rate for yellowing leaves, but problems such as potassium deficiency damage the leaves too much IMLE


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OfflineSirius
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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: Johnny420]
    #52230 - 06/06/08 04:46 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

This thread was moved from Indoor Soil Cultivation.

Reason:
More appropriate for Doctor\'s Diagnosis.


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OfflineJohnny420

Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: Sirius]
    #52279 - 06/06/08 09:40 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Cheers dude. Appreciate the help. :smile:

Seemes to have picked up a bit after a water. The leaves are plump and not drooping, but still a very light green bordering on yellow around the edges.

The newest growth is a nice lush green, its the lower growth thats the problem. i'd say they're only 5% dried up and about 50% yellow/greenish colour on the edges. Still got dark green veins though.

We'll see how they pick up now the light and fan have been moved.


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: Johnny420]
    #52291 - 06/06/08 10:37 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

leave (heh) them on!

they're still photosynthesizing and producing food for the plant.  at worst, the plant will rescue the nutrients from the leaf and reuse them before allowing it to fall off naturally.


--------------------
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln


"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
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OfflineJohnny420

Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: Yrat]
    #52307 - 06/06/08 11:38 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Ah dude... you slay me with your humour! lol!

I actually wanted to congratulate you on the plant in your sig. I went and had a look at all the pics and was blown away by its beauty. Theres nothing better than purple leaves/buds. Unfortunatly i am yet to smoke any!

Maybe one day! :stoned:


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: Johnny420]
    #52308 - 06/06/08 11:41 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

thank you :gethigh:


--------------------
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln


"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
                                                                                      :gethigh:


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: Yrat] * 1
    #52474 - 06/06/08 04:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The newest growth is a nice lush green, its the lower growth thats the problem. i'd say they're only 5% dried up and about 50% yellow/greenish colour on the edges. Still got dark green veins though.




Problems occurring in the older leaves is a sign of a mobile element problem.  If the yellowing is occurring on all parts of the leaf(ves) then it's a sign of an N def.  If the leaf(ves) is yellowing but leaving the veins green you have signs of a Mg def.

To fix the N problem feed with a solution rich in N.  To fix a Mg def. feed your plants some epsom salts or cal mag (or a product designed to give your plants Mg).

As for your other question, i say it depends.  Dying and diseased leaves are weak and prone to infections (or a further spread of a current problem).  I don't know where you heard the story about the nutrients, but, i call BS.  A dying leaf is counterproductive to good growth as it is leaching important nutrients from the soil that could go to better use with your more healthy growth.

So, if your tips and edges are a bit crispy, or, there's some slight yellowing etc. Leave em on there.  If you can give a nice healthy tug on the leaf and it stays attached its good to go.  That's how i test which growth stays and which doesn't.  Generally the dying or hurt leaves that are just hanging around will come off very easily, whereas you can literally bend your plant in half tugging on the healthy growth.  Also, if this is a problem really only occurring in the lower growth i would snip off the leaves that were more yellow then green.  Maybe wait until after you've solved the actual problem (if there is one, older leaves generally are the first to go anyways), because if you fix it and they green up again there's no reason to cut them unless you need to improve airflow or decrease your vegetation to allow more light in.


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: coda] * 1
    #52538 - 06/06/08 07:03 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

the reason a leaf turns yellow during N or Mg deficiency is because the plant redirects chlorophyll (a very energy-expensive molecule to produce) to the newer growth where it can be used more efficiently in brighter light.  so in this way nutrients can be taken up from older, even dying, leaves and put to better use.

in fact, chlorophyll is such a prized compound for plants that they store it over winter in their roots, removing it from leaves in the fall. When this happens we see the reds, yellows, and oranges of the secondary light-absorbing pigments that are left behind and normally go unseen during the regular season.

even just looking at the structure of chlorophyll (a) you can see why an N or Mg deficiency would result in decreased chlorophyll production, and thus lack of a green color


--------------------
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln


"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
                                                                                      :gethigh:


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: Yrat]
    #52776 - 06/07/08 01:01 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

wow, great post man :thumbup:


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #52820 - 06/07/08 01:40 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

even just looking at the structure of chlorophyll (a) you can see why an N or Mg deficiency would result in decreased chlorophyll production, and thus lack of a green color




interesting.

So, while that explains Mg and N, what about Zn and Fe (the other two most common causes of yellowing)?


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OfflineJohnny420


Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: coda]
    #52968 - 06/07/08 07:35 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

ok so from responses it could be a number of things which is what i was afraid of. Now I have to play the guessing game.

I'll see if i can get some pics.


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: Johnny420]
    #53004 - 06/07/08 11:28 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

that would be best.


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: coda]
    #53027 - 06/07/08 02:17 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

coda said:
Quote:

even just looking at the structure of chlorophyll (a) you can see why an N or Mg deficiency would result in decreased chlorophyll production, and thus lack of a green color




interesting.

So, while that explains Mg and N, what about Zn and Fe (the other two most common causes of yellowing)?




metals such as zinc and iron are very common as catalytic centers in various enzymes, and i'm just guessing here, but they are most likely involved at many points along the chain of enzymes responsible for generating chlorophyll.  a deficiency in those metals would cut the production short and result in less chlorophyll output.


--------------------
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln


"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
                                                                                      :gethigh:


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OfflineJohnny420


Registered: 04/21/08
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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: Yrat]
    #53069 - 06/07/08 04:33 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)



Here's a pic if it helps...


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OfflineSirius
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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: Johnny420]
    #53072 - 06/07/08 04:35 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Magnesium deficiency it would look like...


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Offlinem3kgt
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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: Johnny420]
    #53185 - 06/07/08 09:11 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

A classic sign of the middle stages of a Mg deficiency. What are you currently feeding with? If the nutrient solution does not contain an adequate amount of mg, like said before add a couple teaspoons of Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to your next couple of waterings or foliar spay a very small amount for a fast treatment.  Also for future knowledge Dolomite lime contains magnesium carbonate. Its used for controlling ph and is also a good source of Calcium. The only problem is at this point in the deficiency dolomite would take too long for uptake and is more for long term use.  Also what is the pH of the runoff? Try to keep the soil ph slightly above 6.5 and you root environment at a warm 70-75 °F. Ambient Temps should stay around 75 during the photoperiod and 65 at night.  Also I’m not sure at the moment what nutrient solution you are using but reduce the amount or EC for a couple feeds since magnesium can be locked up in your soil from too much potassium, nitrogen, and/ or calcium.


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OfflineJohnny420


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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: m3kgt]
    #53415 - 06/08/08 10:37 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

well its around 8" high, so was looking to force flower when it hits 12". After reading that upping the P a couple of weeks before flower helps production i started feeding with Bio Bizz Bloom.

Its had a total of 2 feeds in 2 weeks with a flush of pure water between each one.

I've not done a PH test yet, each time i go out with the intention of buyin a PH test kit i always get distracted and walk out without it.

Temp is a steady 27 Humidity is 55-60%.

I spoke to Hydrophonics shop and they seem to think it's not a problem. That the lower leaves will just die off anyway to promote growth closer to the light source.

If its an Mg problem where do i go about getting epsom salts?

Also the soil is westlands multi purpose compost with added John innes. From what i read this has dolomite included in the mix and has a start PH of around 6.

As a seedling it was fine and V dark green leaves, but now... well you can see the discolouration.

Thank you for the help so far. It's proving to be aq valuable learning experience for me. :smile:


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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: Johnny420]
    #53604 - 06/08/08 04:47 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

your ph has probably gone south causing a nutrient lockup.

You can get epsom salts at any supermarket or drugstore.


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: erb]
    #53842 - 06/09/08 01:34 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Also the soil is westlands multi purpose compost with added John innes. From what i read this has dolomite included in the mix and has a start PH of around 6.




that's some pretty damn acidic soil.  Did you buffer it all?  You generally want soil Ph to be around 6.8.


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OfflineJohnny420


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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: coda]
    #53866 - 06/09/08 02:16 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

:S nope, just planted the seed and let it grow.

I will say im pretty new at this. Knocked out a couple of lowryder 2's in the same soil though and they went from seed to harvest without any problems. Thats why im a bit baffled at why this has started with problems so early.

I'm gonna make sure i get a PH tester kit and some epsom salts today. I'll test the PH first and if its stable i'll see what effect the salts have.


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OfflineJohnny420


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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: erb]
    #53932 - 06/09/08 09:36 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Right i checked the PH today. Even though the soil was 6 the water is around 8 so it seems to be settling at about 7.

From what i've read 6 - 7.5 is acceptable with optimal around 6.6 (?)

I've got some Epsom salts now so hopefully this will sort out my problems!

Thank you everyone for your help. Just another reason why i love the growery!


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: Johnny420]
    #54078 - 06/09/08 01:46 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

6 is really, really pushing it.  I wouldn't want my soil going under 6.5.

Also, whatever you do right now, do NOT feed your plants any more Mg.  Here's why:

Soil

Magnesium gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0-6.4
Magnesium is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.5-9.1 . (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.

If your problem is being caused by your Ph, you need to fix your Ph FIRST before doing anything else.  If Mg is being locked out feeding it more will not do anything but cause more issues.


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OfflineJohnny420


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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: coda]
    #54087 - 06/09/08 01:55 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I just this second read that exact same info on this board somewhere. lol!

I haven't actually fed it any Mg as of yet.

I think what i wrote was misinterpreted. The soil was Ph6 when purchased. After doing a test of the soil today it showed as being Ph7. So I'm at neutral PH at the moment.

Hence why i got the epsom salts, cuz the PH seemed at a reasonable level.


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: Johnny420]
    #54160 - 06/09/08 04:10 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

are you testing the run off?


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OfflineJohnny420


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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: coda]
    #54314 - 06/09/08 07:59 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah. using just water to flush the pot.


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Offlineerb
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Re: Heat stress caused damaged fan leaves (moved) [Re: Johnny420]
    #54556 - 06/10/08 01:24 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

sometimes a transplant into a bigger pot can work wonders.
im guessing your rootbound?


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