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OfflineThebooedocksaint
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Re: Having Kids [Re: still beLIEve]
    #443993 - 07/09/10 12:54 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

still beLIEve said:
Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
yeah, i can get behind that.  Though, it is really really tough to retain a language when you aren't submersed in that linguistic environment / culture.  I learned spanish in kansas.  I sure the fuck didn't retain much of that.  Spanish would be a good language to learn in the SW.





SE too brah. we got spics everywhere.




I was surprised when I had to learn Spanish in middle school.


Apparently a couple decades ago the Mexicans outnumbered the Germans in my town.


Not anymore :minigun:


--------------------
"To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic."

"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

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Re: Having Kids [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #444145 - 07/09/10 03:16 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crusty Ass Bastard said:
Sounds like a brilliant way to boost the intelligence level of the population. Take all of the unwanted babies from all of the poor/young/degenerate/unsuitable parents around the world and divvy them up. After getting paid out the ass those fuckups go spawn more and more kids for the rest of the world to raise. Yeah man, brilliant. The fact you would require people to pay for the right to procreate is laughable.

If you think Earth is overpopulated you haven't seen enough of it.

There is standing room for 5.5 billion people in the city of Jacksonville, FL alone. I'll just throw that out there and pound you with more facts if you reply.





with all due respect it sounds like you don't understand this issue.  Standing room for 5.5 billion people in jacksonvile?  Even assuming that statistic is true, what does it matter?  Geography isn't the issue, it's resources.  Water, food, clothing, etc.  the essentials.  Population is a fucking huge problem.  Something has to change, undeniable dilemma.  I dont have any answers that would be legit.  I mean there is no way america would set up restrictions on procreation - plus that would be a huge violation of human rights.  So it's just something that is all fucked up.  Human civilization is approaching the brink.  How much longer can we ignore the problem?  Something has to give.


--------------------





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Re: Having Kids [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #444147 - 07/09/10 03:17 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Thebooedocksaint said:
Quote:

still beLIEve said:
Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
yeah, i can get behind that.  Though, it is really really tough to retain a language when you aren't submersed in that linguistic environment / culture.  I learned spanish in kansas.  I sure the fuck didn't retain much of that.  Spanish would be a good language to learn in the SW.





SE too brah. we got spics everywhere.




I was surprised when I had to learn Spanish in middle school.


Apparently a couple decades ago the Mexicans outnumbered the Germans in my town.


Not anymore :minigun:




:lol:  im of german descent as well.  I wish I knew more about my bloodline.


--------------------





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OfflineThebooedocksaint
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Re: Having Kids [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #444154 - 07/09/10 03:28 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
Quote:

Thebooedocksaint said:
Quote:

still beLIEve said:
Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
yeah, i can get behind that.  Though, it is really really tough to retain a language when you aren't submersed in that linguistic environment / culture.  I learned spanish in kansas.  I sure the fuck didn't retain much of that.  Spanish would be a good language to learn in the SW.





SE too brah. we got spics everywhere.




I was surprised when I had to learn Spanish in middle school.


Apparently a couple decades ago the Mexicans outnumbered the Germans in my town.


Not anymore :minigun:




:lol:  im of german descent as well.  I wish I knew more about my bloodline.




I know one of my ancestors was a Teutonic knight and died defending (the city walls of) Jerusalem from the Muslims.


Also, agreeing that resources are the issue, just didn't feel like quoting..


--------------------
"To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic."

"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

I am tired of Earth
I am tired of these people


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
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Re: Having Kids [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #444226 - 07/09/10 06:28 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:with all due respect it sounds like you don't understand this issue.  Standing room for 5.5 billion people in jacksonvile?  Even assuming that statistic is true, what does it matter?  Geography isn't the issue, it's resources.  Water, food, clothing, etc.  the essentials.  Population is a fucking huge problem.  Something has to change, undeniable dilemma.  I dont have any answers that would be legit.  I mean there is no way america would set up restrictions on procreation - plus that would be a huge violation of human rights.  So it's just something that is all fucked up.  Human civilization is approaching the brink.  How much longer can we ignore the problem?  Something has to give.




With all due respect I understand the issueS in great detail.

I don't think he was referring to resources when he said it was irresponsible to have kids instead of adopt, unless of course he really thought you or I or anyone else in the thread couldn't provide for a child. The point about a single city being big enough for 5.5 billion people to stand in was only for the purpose of scope.

While I agree with you that lack of resources is the biggest problem in the world today, overpopulation has almost nothing to do with it. Failed governments and failed policies that prevent 3rd world residents (even rural) from so much as learning about modern agriculture or even the most basic principles of self-sustainability is the problem. Crude as it may be this is a pretty sound example I just saw on Wednesday: http://i.imgur.com/etfdW.jpg (insight). (Irony is not lost on me how loosely nig/nigger is thrown around on this forum, but lets not ask bigots about what issues they might not understand.)

Quote:

Since 1948, according to the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization and the U.S. Department of Agriculture, annual world food production has outpaced the increase in population by about 1 percent. Today, per capita production and per-acre yields are at all-time highs. Prices of agricultural products have been falling for more than 100 years. The average inflation-adjusted price of those products, indexed to wages, fell by more than 74 percent between 1950 and 1990.




Quote:

In the period from 1950 to 1955, there were 159 infant deaths per 1,000 live births in the developing world. By the first half of the 1980s, the number had plunged by more than 42 percent - to 92. In East Asia, infant mortality dropped 71 percent. In South America, the drop averaged 52 percent. In Africa, infant mortality dropped 38 percent. In the industrialized world, the rate fell more than 69 percent. The increase in life expectancy at birth has been equally dramatic. Between 1950 to 1955 and 1980 to 1985, the average increase worldwide was 13 years, up 29 percent. In the industrialized world, life expectancy went from 65 years to 73 years. But the biggest news was in the developing world, where life expectancy went from 41 years to more than 56 - a 38 percent increase.




Quote:

The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations states in its report The State of Food Insecurity in the World 2006, that while the number of undernourished people in the developing countries has declined by about three million, a smaller proportion of the populations of developing countries is undernourished today than in 1990–92: 17% against 20%. Furthermore, FAO’s projections suggest that the proportion of hungry people in developing countries could be halved from 1990-92 levels to 10% by 2015. The FAO also states "We have emphasized first and foremost that reducing hunger is no longer a question of means in the hands of the global community. The world is richer today than it was ten years ago. There is more food available and still more could be produced without excessive upward pressure on prices. The knowledge and resources to reduce hunger are there. What is lacking is sufficient political will to mobilize those resources to the benefit of the hungry."




We live longer, healthier lives than ever before in history and we've thought civilization was on the brink for at least 90 years now. The number of people who are overweight has surpassed the number who are undernourished. Overpopulation will not be what pushes us to or over the brink in any event.


Edited by Crusty Ass Bastard (07/09/10 07:11 PM)


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Re: Having Kids [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #444241 - 07/09/10 07:57 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

i figured that comment would get you all riled up.  :lol:  I didn't really mean to be a dick.  I actually took your statement out of context anyway.  However, I'm not sure about overpopulation and resources not being related.  I would argue that those two go together like PB & J.  If there was one person on earth, resources wouldn't be an issue.  If there are 6 billion people, or 6 trillion people.  The more people the less non-sustainable resources, that simple.  Overpopulation will push us over the brink eventually.  Unless we discover dimensional travel or we start to populate the space around earth.  That is eventually, if everything else doesn't fuck us up first.  It might not be an issue that our generation is confronted with, but a generation will.  But Mother nature is soo fucking pissed at us right now, im sure she's got some nasty shit in store for all of us before then.  The rest of our lives will be damn interesting.  This is a good conversation but a bit off topic.



--------------------





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OfflineDieCommie


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Re: Having Kids [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #444244 - 07/09/10 08:12 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

The rate of increase in population has been falling for many decades.  Extrapolating the current figures implies there will likley be an equilibrium reached withing a hundred years (or less).


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Re: Having Kids [Re: DieCommie]
    #444251 - 07/09/10 08:25 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

oh your sources are fucking crazy man.  And dead wrong. 

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=sp_pop_totl&tdim=true&dl=en&hl=en&q=world+population

just one of very very many 'official' sources on population growth.


--------------------





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OfflineThebooedocksaint
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Re: Having Kids [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #444253 - 07/09/10 08:27 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I'm high


--------------------
"To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic."

"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes

I am tired of Earth
I am tired of these people


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OfflineDieCommie


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Re: Having Kids [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #444268 - 07/09/10 09:08 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
oh your sources are fucking crazy man.  And dead wrong. 

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=sp_pop_totl&tdim=true&dl=en&hl=en&q=world+population

just one of very very many 'official' sources on population growth.





I dont think so.  Looking at it holistically, rather than just from one graph and a gut feeling, you can see that the most probable case is one where population growth slows down to the environments carrying capacity.  Thats how population growth is modeled, as a logistic function that approaches a limit.  Of course the population is still going up, but thats not the issue.  The issue is the change in our rate of increase.  And the data shows that has been going down.  So while population is increasing, its increasing more slowly.  (on the right side of the logistic curve)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population ; What the carrying capacity is and when it will be reached is a good question.  But what we do know that population growth is decreasing - the trend is towards an equilibrium.

I didnt realize this either until somebody expalind it to me and pointed out the evidence.

(also a fun part of that wikipeida article is the "Forecasts of scarcity" which highlights the so many wrong doomsday overpopulation predictions that have been made.  Also in that wikipedia page they say that the UN has consistently revised its population growth estimates to be less than before)


edit - here is the source of some of that wikipedia article.  Its short and readable.  It also does have a forecast for the year of stabilization of the population and the carrying capacity. They prject stabilizing near the year 2200 at about 10 billion people.  You can see that in the 100 and 150 years before that the population growth really slows down.

http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/sixbillion/sixbilpart1.pdf


Edited by DieCommie (07/09/10 09:14 PM)


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
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Re: Having Kids [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #444404 - 07/10/10 02:35 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
oh your sources are fucking crazy man.  And dead wrong. 

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=sp_pop_totl&tdim=true&dl=en&hl=en&q=world+population

just one of very very many 'official' sources on population growth.




Was this even directed at me? I quoted United Nations/FDA statistics as of 1990 and further UN statistics from 2006 via wikipedia (overpopulation) as well as Roger Revelle (Al Gore's mentor). Also, what specifically was dead wrong if you were? My world revolves around statistics and facts and I cross-check everything, so if something above was incorrect I'm certainly not above correcting it and eating humble pie.

And I'm not riled up, I just flatly disagree with the notion that the number of people inhabiting this planet is further diminishing the resources of the poor.

Governments and corporations diminishing natural resources to the point we are pushed to the brink...well thats something I could talk about for days. Overpopulation is the guise they use to do many of the things they do, such as genetically alter food and exploit 3rd world countries without enough food of their own to grow more for the rest of us. I'm in total agreement with you other than the number of people being the root problem. Human indifference has always and will always be the root problem of hunger. Lets be real, we have the means to feed and clothe everyone on the planet and we don't.


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Edited by Crusty Ass Bastard (07/10/10 02:53 AM)


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OfflineDungenessDank
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Re: Having Kids [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #444457 - 07/10/10 11:40 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup:

If we are going to continue to grow as a species, we need to learn how to live a smarter more efficient existence.

Fixed some grammatical errors. :smirk:


Edited by DungenessDank (07/10/10 12:48 PM)


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OfflineKilroy
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Re: Having Kids [Re: DungenessDank]
    #444476 - 07/10/10 12:34 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DungenessDank said:
:thumbup:

If we are going to continue to grow a species, we need to learn how to live a smarter more efficient existence.



:thumbup:


--------------------
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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
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Re: Having Kids [Re: Kilroy]
    #444606 - 07/10/10 06:48 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

At some point I might have Kanye'd the thread and I apologize, but I also think you asked me to Furrowed? :laugh:

To circle back on topic I plan on having kids and raising them the best I possibly can. :lol:

I shared your views Furrowed and even Homosapian's to some extent when I was in my teens and early twenties. I'm saying this not having a clue how old either of you guys are mind you and not preaching (fierce athiest) but keep an open heart and an open mind on this subject specifically. Whether or not to have a child (assuming you're capable :wink:) is the the biggest decision each one of us is faced with in life. I commend people that stick to their guns and choose not to have children for reasons they believe in or cave to social pressures, but homo's comment equating procreation to irresponsibility just pissed me the fuck off. That is a viewpoint of someone that does not fully understand the issues and I was just a little shocked he wasn't the one you were calling out.

Someone asked me once to think of a better, more impactful way of making the world a better place than by raising a great child. I'm still honestly thinking about that 3-4 years later.


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Re: Having Kids [Re: DieCommie]
    #444868 - 07/11/10 12:32 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

No, i wasn't directing that at you CAB.  And thanks for bringing this back to the topic at hand.  Although this digression does relate to some degree.

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
oh your sources are fucking crazy man.  And dead wrong. 

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=sp_pop_totl&tdim=true&dl=en&hl=en&q=world+population

just one of very very many 'official' sources on population growth.





I dont think so.  Looking at it holistically, rather than just from one graph and a gut feeling, you can see that the most probable case is one where population growth slows down to the environments carrying capacity.  Thats how population growth is modeled, as a logistic function that approaches a limit.  Of course the population is still going up, but thats not the issue.  The issue is the change in our rate of increase.  And the data shows that has been going down.  So while population is increasing, its increasing more slowly.  (on the right side of the logistic curve)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population ; What the carrying capacity is and when it will be reached is a good question.  But what we do know that population growth is decreasing - the trend is towards an equilibrium.

I didnt realize this either until somebody expalind it to me and pointed out the evidence.

(also a fun part of that wikipeida article is the "Forecasts of scarcity" which highlights the so many wrong doomsday overpopulation predictions that have been made.  Also in that wikipedia page they say that the UN has consistently revised its population growth estimates to be less than before)


edit - here is the source of some of that wikipedia article.  Its short and readable.  It also does have a forecast for the year of stabilization of the population and the carrying capacity. They prject stabilizing near the year 2200 at about 10 billion people.  You can see that in the 100 and 150 years before that the population growth really slows down.

http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/sixbillion/sixbilpart1.pdf





I misunderstood your comment.  :lol:  my bad.  I really hope you are right about the balancing of population and resources.  I don't see it, since it's been reported that the first person who will make it to the age of 150 has already been born.  Unless we do away with the concept that we have of 'status' it's a downward spiral we are in.  I do like your optimism though.


--------------------





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OfflineJeff Funk
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Re: Having Kids [Re: Homosapian]
    #444930 - 07/11/10 03:21 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

why does he have to be white? look at angelina jolie ;D

giving a kid an amazing life ,  who would otherwise be in the streets roaming for a banana like a monkey ... with aids ofc.. silly niggers.




Wow and I thought this post was going to have some intelligence to it, then you burst my bubble with ignorance at the end. I learn something new everyday! Ignorant racist are indeed sometimes educated. That's if you really do speak 4 languages.


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Re: Having Kids [Re: Jeff Funk]
    #444966 - 07/11/10 05:25 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

He got whacked by the permaban stick.  Soooooo, he no longer exists.


--------------------





Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
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OfflineJeff Funk
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Re: Having Kids [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #445006 - 07/11/10 08:43 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Good to hear!


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OfflineKilroy
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Re: Having Kids [Re: Jeff Funk]
    #445026 - 07/11/10 09:55 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

he finally got banned their is a god lol jk jk about the god part


--------------------
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