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OfflineDionili
Stranger

Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 21
Last seen: 5 years, 26 days
Starting soon
    #393130 - 03/31/10 11:46 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Okay, so heres teh skinny


3 65kcfls
4 2700k cfls

in a space that's 30inches high x 35 inches wide.


MY buddy has been doing phenomenal with CFLS and i hope to do the same

I will post pictures when i get home tonight

I'm not sure if i should go with coir or soil.

Due to teh money situation Hydro is out of the question for this first grow. unless someone wants to trade me a pump.


soo any adivce/questions?

Will this space be too small to get decent yeilds?
i wanna start a good rotation, how could i go about that.


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OfflineUnion420
Horticulturist

Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 94
Loc: New World
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Starting soon [Re: Dionili]
    #393437 - 03/31/10 10:16 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Go coir, If you do use it, you may not kno but it is hydro, its passive hydro, anything with a soiless mix is. Coir is a great medium its way faster than say a peat based mix and comes the closest to the production of a ebb&flow or any hydro setup utilizing rockwool, hydroton, aero, ect ect that ive seen.

As for perp harvest, keep one mother under a 100w cfl flood and take clones every two weeks, root, place straight in flower, this way with a say..8 week plant you place one in flower, 2 weeks later clone, 2 weeks later put in flower, 2 weeks, clone, 2 weeks harvest first, move 1st clone over place new clone in. Hows that work for ya?


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Everything is fictional, I dont even exist.


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OfflineDieselB
High Watt Closet
Male

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 1,156
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Starting soon [Re: Union420]
    #393474 - 03/31/10 11:05 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

You forgot to mention perlite, it's a great medium to use, especially for passive hydro systems.

Look at this, straight perlite, passive hydro (read: hempy), and excellent results. It's also a very economic way of growing.

http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/361836


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If you ain't smokin' dro, you're smokin' reggie. :shrug:


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OfflineDionili
Stranger

Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 21
Last seen: 5 years, 26 days
Re: Starting soon [Re: DieselB]
    #393638 - 04/01/10 08:34 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)







I know it looks ghetto, but it aint done yet. I am going to remove the shelf roof thing (that the lighting fixture is hanging from.)

Gonna build a door soon too. lmao.


I made a sub mixture of Coir perlite and a handfull of soil.it's a modified recipe that my buddy used for his privet strain.

basicly i'm doing an SOG (or maybe SCrog in teh future)


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OfflineBuddy Guy
Gone Rogue


Registered: 02/21/10
Posts: 196
Loc: Unknown
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: Starting soon [Re: Dionili]
    #393640 - 04/01/10 08:51 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Cover up that mirror with some mylar or reflective white Visqueen.
If cost is a concern you could cover the mirror with tin foil dull side facing out or uninstall the mirror and slap you a coat of flat white paint up.
Mirrors absorb light not reflect it..


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
Pheno Hunting


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Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 786
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Re: Starting soon [Re: DieselB]
    #393663 - 04/01/10 11:08 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Union420 said:
Go coir, If you do use it, you may not kno but it is hydro, its passive hydro, anything with a soiless mix is. Coir is a great medium its way faster than say a peat based mix and comes the closest to the production of a ebb&flow or any hydro setup utilizing rockwool, hydroton, aero, ect ect that ive seen.




Quote:

DieselB said:
You forgot to mention perlite, it's a great medium to use, especially for passive hydro systems.




You guys know 50/50 coir/perlite will outperform straight coir or straight perlite, right? Why advocate for one when you can enjoy the best of both?

I could post a mind-boggling amount of links to studies if anybody cares. The one guy I know will ask I already have on ignore though.


--------------------
|

Skunk Train (Most Recent) | G13 Haze (Completed) | G13 Haze (Completed) | G13 Haze (Completed)
Cinnibis Rolls | Indoor Peppers

"The secret of improved plant breeding, apart from scientific knowledge, is love." -Luther Burbank


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OfflineDieselB
High Watt Closet
Male

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 1,156
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Starting soon [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #393667 - 04/01/10 11:36 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Absolutely, sir! I would LOVE to see those links, I've been himming and hawing about whether or not not mix some coco into my perlite for the upcoming hempy grow. I've thought it over, and seems like a great idea, but I just haven't been able to find many who do it, or any comparative results.


--------------------
If you ain't smokin' dro, you're smokin' reggie. :shrug:


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OfflineDionili
Stranger

Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 21
Last seen: 5 years, 26 days
Re: Starting soon [Re: DieselB]
    #393689 - 04/01/10 12:58 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Updates








Went lookinf for mylar, and coulden't find any will be getting some foil soon

as for lighting

4x 65k cfls "100 watt equivalent"

1x 27k "150watt equivalent"

3 smaller 27s and 1 65k for a mother room i am buliding soon as well.


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
cannoisseur
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal Flag
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Re: Starting soon [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #393690 - 04/01/10 01:04 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

206 said:
Quote:

Union420 said:
Go coir, If you do use it, you may not kno but it is hydro, its passive hydro, anything with a soiless mix is. Coir is a great medium its way faster than say a peat based mix and comes the closest to the production of a ebb&flow or any hydro setup utilizing rockwool, hydroton, aero, ect ect that ive seen.




Quote:

DieselB said:
You forgot to mention perlite, it's a great medium to use, especially for passive hydro systems.




You guys know 50/50 coir/perlite will outperform straight coir or straight perlite, right? Why advocate for one when you can enjoy the best of both?

I could post a mind-boggling amount of links to studies if anybody cares. The one guy I know will ask I already have on ignore though.





I would LOVE to see those studies as well. I'm in the proccess of deciding what to use for my next grow as well so I would be very interested in seeing some persuasive results....

Unless of course I'm the one you have on ignore.... :strokebeard:


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
Pheno Hunting


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Re: Starting soon [Re: Harry_Ba11sach] * 1
    #393827 - 04/01/10 04:06 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

No its captain something that I have on ignore. I wouldn't ignore you, I only read about 10 people's posts on a regular basis and you're one of them.

http://www.actahort.org/members/showpdf?booknrarnr=779_67
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=108257
I'm trying to find the university of arizona link but can't. They did a tomato trial way back with nearly identical results among the three, although they knew very little about coco as a medium.
I can link a bunch of individual grows and claims of improvement to, but don't know how interested you are.

The benefits of coco are all in the roots really. In hempy with perlite (as you know) the roots grow into a mat above the res, but in a perlite/verm or especially perlite/coco hempy they will propogate the medium entirely. Verm and coir both have 20% CEC which is why cutting with either usually turns out better than 100% perlite which has 0% CEC. I think you would be the ultimate person to run a trial since you already have 100% perlite hempys dialed in though. Even if it wasn't a side-by-side it would be nice to compare consecutive grows. I'm willing to bet your yields (and bud-sites) increase. Another 24 hours or so between waterings might add years to the life of your back too :P

This guy says it better:

Quote:

One thing worth talking about is the CEC capacity of coco, allowing it to store/concentrate nutrients only to release them to the roots later. A well-saturated coco coir medium therefore - it seems - allows roots to feed more efficiently on a smaller surface than peat soil (lower CEC) or rockwool/hydrotones (zero CEC).

So, rather than saying that the roots didn't expand (in coco) because the medium was too wet, let's say that you were using too big pots, because with coco you can reduce the size and get the same results, the proof being that your coco plant outdid the others with a smaller root system.




http://www.soilminerals.com/Cation_Exchange_Simplified.htm (Last several paragraphs mostly)


Edited by Crusty Ass Bastard (04/01/10 04:11 PM)


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
cannoisseur
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal Flag
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Re: Starting soon [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard] * 1
    #393844 - 04/01/10 04:34 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Oh trust me, I know all about CEC. Had to write a HUGE paper on it last semester :yesnod:

This is the reason I actually don't grow straight perlite hempys. I had 2 plants last round in the straight perlite simply because I ran out of vermiculite, but vermiculite is what soil scientists like to call a 2:1 expansive clay, meaning that it's 2 layers of tetrahedral silicon lattice sandwiching a layer of octrahedral crystalline silicon. This layers effect gives vermiculite an INSANELY high CEC in addition to the water retention capabilities.
http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/319765#319765

So I guess my question then is; what's the advantage of using perlite in addition to coco instead of just straight coco? from what I hear coir has far more that enough porosity to support sufficient root-zone oxygenation, so whats the advantage of using perlite in there? seems to me that it would just further reduce the CEC.....

:strokebeard:


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
cannoisseur
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal Flag
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Re: Starting soon [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #393846 - 04/01/10 04:41 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

hmm I just read through that ICmag link you posted. Very interesting


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OfflineTomCollins


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Starting soon [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #393858 - 04/01/10 05:02 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

206 said:
No its captain something that I have on ignore. I wouldn't ignore you, I only read about 10 people's posts on a regular basis and you're one of them.

http://www.actahort.org/members/showpdf?booknrarnr=779_67
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=108257
I'm trying to find the university of arizona link but can't. They did a tomato trial way back with nearly identical results among the three, although they knew very little about coco as a medium.
I can link a bunch of individual grows and claims of improvement to, but don't know how interested you are.

The benefits of coco are all in the roots really. In hempy with perlite (as you know) the roots grow into a mat above the res, but in a perlite/verm or especially perlite/coco hempy they will propogate the medium entirely. Verm and coir both have 20% CEC which is why cutting with either usually turns out better than 100% perlite which has 0% CEC. I think you would be the ultimate person to run a trial since you already have 100% perlite hempys dialed in though. Even if it wasn't a side-by-side it would be nice to compare consecutive grows. I'm willing to bet your yields (and bud-sites) increase. Another 24 hours or so between waterings might add years to the life of your back too :P

This guy says it better:

Quote:

One thing worth talking about is the CEC capacity of coco, allowing it to store/concentrate nutrients only to release them to the roots later. A well-saturated coco coir medium therefore - it seems - allows roots to feed more efficiently on a smaller surface than peat soil (lower CEC) or rockwool/hydrotones (zero CEC).

So, rather than saying that the roots didn't expand (in coco) because the medium was too wet, let's say that you were using too big pots, because with coco you can reduce the size and get the same results, the proof being that your coco plant outdid the others with a smaller root system.




http://www.soilminerals.com/Cation_Exchange_Simplified.htm (Last several paragraphs mostly)




Awesome post. Much knowledge absorbed. :thumbup:


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andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,163
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Starting soon [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #393894 - 04/01/10 05:42 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

206 said:
No its captain something that I have on ignore.




I make people look like idiots and they ignore me :frown:


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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!


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OfflineDionili
Stranger

Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 21
Last seen: 5 years, 26 days
Re: Starting soon [Re: captain.koons]
    #393924 - 04/01/10 06:13 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

You thread jacking bastards



....


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,163
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Re: Starting soon [Re: Dionili]
    #393928 - 04/01/10 06:17 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Okay to stay on topic...

Coir will get you better yields than soil.

/thread


--------------------


TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
Pheno Hunting


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Posts: 786
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Re: Starting soon [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #394033 - 04/01/10 08:10 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Dionili said:
You thread jacking bastards



....




Sorry, that was my long-winded way of suggesting a coir/perlite mix or coir. You seem to have everything squared away now...you should start a grow journal?

Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
hmm I just read through that ICmag link you posted. Very interesting




Long story short for anyone shy of reading, guy ran a side-by-side and perlite/coir yielded 12% more than straight coir. This is inline with my experiences and those of most growers that have actually tried both.


--------------------
|

Skunk Train (Most Recent) | G13 Haze (Completed) | G13 Haze (Completed) | G13 Haze (Completed)
Cinnibis Rolls | Indoor Peppers

"The secret of improved plant breeding, apart from scientific knowledge, is love." -Luther Burbank


Edited by Crusty Ass Bastard (04/01/10 08:11 PM)


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: Starting soon [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #394037 - 04/01/10 08:15 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)



--------------------


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OfflineBuddy Guy
Gone Rogue


Registered: 02/21/10
Posts: 196
Loc: Unknown
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: Starting soon [Re: captain.koons]
    #394612 - 04/02/10 03:33 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

captain.koons said:
Quote:

206 said:
No its captain something that I have on ignore.




I make people look like idiots and they ignore me :frown:



:picard:
Can you blame him?
It's not always about making other people look like idiots
More often then not it is about standing by your friends wrong or right and co-operation rather than making people look like idiots.  :nonono:


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OfflineDionili
Stranger

Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 21
Last seen: 5 years, 26 days
Re: Starting soon [Re: Buddy Guy]
    #394626 - 04/02/10 03:55 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/394621

Updated pics and info, this is my grow log.


hell of alot less ghetto now too


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