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Offlinesaltatory
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 49
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
help me set up my first grow
    #119088 - 09/06/08 02:12 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

hello all, i've been lurking these forums for a few months and i've also digested most of the indoor bible, so i want to start planning my first grow. i don't have the space currently, but it's still fun to think about. i watched "mr green"'s video "i grow chronic" (link) and he seems to have a small, efficient setup with little mess and fuss. this plan is mostly inspired by the ideas in that video.

i would like to do a two-room set-up with one devoted to clones/seedlings, mothers and veg growth and the other devoted to flowering. i've been thinking of a space 9'x4' which i could divide into two rooms approximately 4'x4'. i'd also like to cut down on the mess and risk of spills by using 3'x3' trays in each room supported on low tables or stands.

This is going to be a soilless operation and i'm leaning towards creating an ebb-and-flow table in the flowering room. the tray is 3'x3'x4" and i will put the plants into the tray in rockwool cubes and cover them with hydroton. doing some quick calculations, the tray volume is 22 gallons (84 liters) so i'll plan on using a 30 gallon reservoir.

For the veg room, i'll go fluorescent, possibly with 6 4' T5 tubes on chains which could be adjusted according to plant height. i'll probably use a drip-system for watering like that shown in the video.

For the flowering room, i'll use a 600W HPS.

Depending on the location of the rooms, i'll figure out ventilation/odor control later.

On to my questions:
1. has anyone else watched that video? whaddya think? any major criticisms?
2. are fluorescents enough to keep a mother plant from stretching? or should i upgrade to HID, maybe a 250W metal halide?
3. what kind/size of pumps do i need for each room?
4. how many plants can fit in a 3'x3' tray with an ebb and flow system under 600W HPS?
5. is a continuous harvest possible? i imagine not, since nutrients change over the flowering period and it would be impossible with just one tray and res.
6. does anyone have a good, cheap strain that would do well in this set-up? since it will be my first grow, i don't want to spend a lot in case i totally fuck it up.

thanks to everyone who contributes to this wonderful forum. i really appreciate all the hard work and advice posted here. let me know if any thing isn't clear in my description.


Edited by saltatory (09/06/08 05:27 PM)


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OfflineBlargIAmDead


Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 266
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: help me set up my first grow [Re: saltatory]
    #119103 - 09/06/08 03:40 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

1) I have watched the video. Thought it was pretty good. He's done this before :smile:. Only downside to drip lines is that I hear they tend to clog. Only downside I can see.

2) I've heard of people keeping mother's and bonsai moms just fine under floros.

3) Depends. Usually they'll have a flow rating or maximum height rating. How high they can pump the water before their pump can't pump any more due to water pressure. Get a pump that seems to fit what you need. You probably don't need a beast that will empty your resevoir in 10 seconds but you don't want something that's gonna be pumping for 30 minutes just to get to overflow level.

4) Depends upon your grow. For a SOG I'd say anywhere between 10-30 plants. If you wanna LST I'd say closer to the 10.

5) A continuous harvest would NOT be possible with your current setup. You would need two tables or individual pots. Mainly cause you'd be trying to flush one group while another group is mid flower.

6) Use bag seed for a trial run. Maybe find an awesome genetic you like. And barring that go for something cheap the first time around. Check seedbay, dr chronic etc for cheap "beginner" seeds.


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Offlinesaltatory
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 49
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: help me set up my first grow [Re: BlargIAmDead]
    #119109 - 09/06/08 04:35 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BlargIAmDead said:
1) I have watched the video. Thought it was pretty good. He's done this before :smile:. Only downside to drip lines is that I hear they tend to clog. Only downside I can see.




due to nutrient buildup? i guess i can't really prevent that.

Quote:

BlargIAmDead said:
2) I've heard of people keeping mother's and bonsai moms just fine under floros.



excellent. i'll have to read up on pruning, topping and bonsai'ing though. bushy is better for taking clones, as well as keep it a manageable height, right?

Quote:

BlargIAmDead said:
3) Depends. Usually they'll have a flow rating or maximum height rating. How high they can pump the water before their pump can't pump any more due to water pressure. Get a pump that seems to fit what you need. You probably don't need a beast that will empty your resevoir in 10 seconds but you don't want something that's gonna be pumping for 30 minutes just to get to overflow level.




so fill the tray in 5 minutes?

Quote:

BlargIAmDead said:
4) Depends upon your grow. For a SOG I'd say anywhere between 10-30 plants. If you wanna LST I'd say closer to the 10.




yeah, i was thinking about doing a SOG or SCROG. LST seems a bit too complicated/labor intensive for me now. the trays i was looking at were only 4" deep. should i find deeper trays or will the roots have adequate room?

Quote:

BlargIAmDead said:
5) A continuous harvest would NOT be possible with your current setup. You would need two tables or individual pots. Mainly cause you'd be trying to flush one group while another group is mid flower.




as i expected. continuous harvest might be nice, but this system seems so cheap and easy to run. creating two (or more) tables for flowering a continous harvest might be more work than needed atm.


Quote:

BlargIAmDead said:
6) Use bag seed for a trial run. Maybe find an awesome genetic you like. And barring that go for something cheap the first time around. Check seedbay, dr chronic etc for cheap "beginner" seeds.




i was hoping to avoid bagseed because i want to get a consistent genetic strain with which to do some minor experiments. i'm sure i'll find something when the time comes.

thanks so much!!


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Invisiblemel_lonta_tauda
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 9,407
Loc: the sun
Re: help me set up my first grow [Re: saltatory]
    #119116 - 09/06/08 04:54 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

if you're just looking to do minor experiments, then i would suggest going with bagseeds.
they're a good way to learn trial & error
but if you want to actually get some quality out of it then go right on ahead with your genetic strain :super:


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Offlinesaltatory
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 49
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: help me set up my first grow [Re: mel_lonta_tauda]
    #119117 - 09/06/08 05:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mel_lonta_tauda said:
if you're just looking to do minor experiments, then i would suggest going with bagseeds.
they're a good way to learn trial & error
but if you want to actually get some quality out of it then go right on ahead with your genetic strain :super:




yeah, i'm probably getting way too far ahead of myself.  :stoned:


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Invisiblemel_lonta_tauda
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 9,407
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Re: help me set up my first grow [Re: saltatory]
    #119120 - 09/06/08 05:19 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

saltatory said:
Quote:

mel_lonta_tauda said:
if you're just looking to do minor experiments, then i would suggest going with bagseeds.
they're a good way to learn trial & error
but if you want to actually get some quality out of it then go right on ahead with your genetic strain :super:




yeah, i'm probably getting way too far ahead of myself.  :stoned:



there's nothing wrong with planning ahead
and be sure to start a grow log once you get everything going :grin:


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Invisiblecoda


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,734
Trusted Cultivator
Re: help me set up my first grow [Re: mel_lonta_tauda]
    #119140 - 09/06/08 08:42 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

IMO, i would ditch the t5s and go with t12's.  You'll avoid stretch easier, give them more light, and you can buy a bank which would house all of your bulbs in one unit instead of dealing with multiple lights.  Makes things easier on you, frees up plugs, and provides more light.  T5's work in a pinch, but the t12's, or even another form of cfl setup, is more efficient.


--------------------


MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.


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OfflineSirius
Saturn Ascends


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 7 months, 17 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: help me set up my first grow [Re: saltatory]
    #119281 - 09/07/08 12:42 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I guess I don't know enough about an ebb and flow table to know how simple they are, but I have a general impression that, for a first time growing, starting out with an ebb and flow table might be running before you can walk. I'd personally suggest trying a run with coco before investing in a complicated hydro setup - it doesn't set you back anything more than some coco and pots, and you can always move on up after that. I think this is a really good idea to get a good idea of how everything progresses. Coco is pretty simple and a lot of fun, and since it is practically a hydro setup that is ran manually, it'll give you experience with what you'll need to know when it comes time to setup your table (like dialing in your pH and using hydro nutrients, not to mention how the plant itself grows).

Quote:

saltatory said:
2. are fluorescents enough to keep a mother plant from stretching? or should i upgrade to HID, maybe a 250W metal halide?




Fluorescent lighting should be fine, as long as you have the right color temperature, an even distribution of enough lumens, and your mother plant properly trained. Here's a link on everything you're going to need to know about keeping a bonsai mother. :wink:

Quote:


4. how many plants can fit in a 3'x3' tray with an ebb and flow system under 600W HPS?




Six to eight would be about right, if you're talking full-size plants.

Quote:


6. does anyone have a good, cheap strain that would do well in this set-up? since it will be my first grow, i don't want to spend a lot in case i totally fuck it up.




Despite the previous suggestions, I'd suggest not going with bag seed. I understand the line of thought of not losing out on a more expensive investment due to being new, but you're simply not going to know what to expect with bagseed. It isn't likely that you're going to completely kill all of your plants, provided you've done your research before starting. There are plenty of great strains available from $30-60 that are amazing, and you'll have the benefit of not only being able to search for more information on the strain and know what to expect, but you can actually consider what you look for in a plant, and find it. I'd recommend Mandala, but they aren't producing seeds until next year. Paradise Seeds has a lot of strains in that price range that would be excellent. Dr. Chronic is one of the best seed-banks to order from, by the way.
:super:

Quote:


thanks to everyone who contributes to this wonderful forum. i really appreciate all the hard work and advice posted here. let me know if any thing isn't clear in my description.




Thanks for finally posting! You've got a lot of posting to do to make up for all that lurking. :nono:


--------------------


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Offlinesaltatory
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 49
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: help me set up my first grow [Re: coda]
    #119358 - 09/07/08 07:20 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

coda said:
IMO, i would ditch the t5s and go with t12's.  You'll avoid stretch easier, give them more light, and you can buy a bank which would house all of your bulbs in one unit instead of dealing with multiple lights.  Makes things easier on you, frees up plugs, and provides more light.  T5's work in a pinch, but the t12's, or even another form of cfl setup, is more efficient.




yeah, i see your point, but cervantes' book says that T5s are more efficient (lumens/watt) than T12s. also, i've seen T5 banks but they're not cheap. can you link me to a cheap 6-bulb bank for T12s?


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Offlinesaltatory
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 49
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: help me set up my first grow [Re: Sirius]
    #119361 - 09/07/08 07:33 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sirius said:
Coco is pretty simple and a lot of fun, and since it is practically a hydro setup that is ran manually, it'll give you experience with what you'll need to know when it comes time to setup your table (like dialing in your pH and using hydro nutrients, not to mention how the plant itself grows).




sounds like a damn fine idea.

Quote:

Sirius said:
Fluorescent lighting should be fine, as long as you have the right color temperature, an even distribution of enough lumens, and your mother plant properly trained. Here's a link on everything you're going to need to know about keeping a bonsai mother. :wink:




oooh, thanks for this link. i should probably start lurking the icmag forums too, huh?

Quote:

Sirius said:
Six to eight would be about right, if you're talking full-size plants.





well, they'll probably be small clones grown for a SOG/SCROG setup. i think i'll be able to pack in 15-20.

Quote:

Sirius said:
you're simply not going to know what to expect with bagseed.




yeah, that's what i figured. i'll check out some of mandala's strains.

Quote:

Sirius said:
Thanks for finally posting! You've got a lot of posting to do to make up for all that lurking. :nono:




oh don't worry, i'm sure there is plenty of posting left to do.


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Invisiblecoda


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,734
Trusted Cultivator
Re: help me set up my first grow [Re: saltatory]
    #119805 - 09/09/08 12:03 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

saltatory said:
Quote:

coda said:
IMO, i would ditch the t5s and go with t12's.  You'll avoid stretch easier, give them more light, and you can buy a bank which would house all of your bulbs in one unit instead of dealing with multiple lights.  Makes things easier on you, frees up plugs, and provides more light.  T5's work in a pinch, but the t12's, or even another form of cfl setup, is more efficient.




yeah, i see your point, but cervantes' book says that T5s are more efficient (lumens/watt) than T12s. also, i've seen T5 banks but they're not cheap. can you link me to a cheap 6-bulb bank for T12s?




What do you consider cheap?


--------------------


MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.


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Offlinesaltatory
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 49
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: help me set up my first grow [Re: coda]
    #119811 - 09/09/08 12:17 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

cheaper than a full setup for a 250W metal halide (~$150)?


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Invisiblecoda


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,734
Trusted Cultivator
Re: help me set up my first grow [Re: saltatory]
    #119912 - 09/09/08 04:36 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

one thing to remember when deciding about purchasing a MH vs a fluro is that the only cost associated with a HID setup is not the light setup itself.  Remember, even at lower wattages, these lights put out an extreme amount of heat.  So along with a light you're going to have to purchase a fan to extract the heat, ducting to provide a way to extract, as well as figure out a spot to vent the heat to.  With CFL's, fluro's in general, the only extra you'll have to buy is a small circulatory fan at worst.  So effectively, a 250 dollar cfl bank compared to a 150 dollar MH setup could essentially cost the same once you add in the extra expense of a fan.


--------------------


MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.


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Invisiblestarrider


Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 125
Re: help me set up my first grow [Re: coda]
    #350646 - 01/20/10 08:35 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

coda said:
IMO, i would ditch the t5s and go with t12's.  You'll avoid stretch easier, give them more light, and you can buy a bank which would house all of your bulbs in one unit instead of dealing with multiple lights.  Makes things easier on you, frees up plugs, and provides more light.  T5's work in a pinch, but the t12's, or even another form of cfl setup, is more efficient.




I'm not an expert, but what I have learned so far is this; never skimp on lighting. It's not worth it IMO. If you want to have big buds that are dense and sticky, go with the MH/HPS lights.


--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite."

William Blake

Anything  I write is a lie. Any picture I post is a fake. I only write for entertainment.


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InvisibleInverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star Flag
Re: help me set up my first grow [Re: starrider]
    #350942 - 01/20/10 08:26 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you for bumping a year old thread and enlightening us all :heart:


--------------------
Don't criticize what you can't understand


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