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Invisibleniteowl
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PGA tincture question
    #860850 - 09/17/23 12:15 PM (9 months, 29 days ago)

I've been making some cannabis tinctures for a while now. They work really well in coffee but burn like fire if you try to use them under the tongue.

My question is, could I take this 100 ml jar of PGA with 1000 mg THC in it ...



... reduce it to 50 ml, add 50 ml distilled water to it, and it still be as effective with less burn?

I like the ease of dosing at those levels.

1ml of tincture = 10mg THC


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-

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InvisibleDataM
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Re: PGA tincture question [Re: niteowl]
    #860858 - 09/18/23 10:09 AM (9 months, 28 days ago)

The solubility of thc in ethanol is at least 1g/mL, so 50mL should be able to hold more than 50,000mg of THC

The ideal ethanol content in sublingual tinctures is 25-60%.

You're probably not working with 100% PGA, but more of an azeotrope, especially if you've extracted on plant material. That puts your PGA at 96% max.

So you could definitely evaporate down to 50mL and add water back to 100mL with no problems. Hell, you could probably reduce down to 35-40mL and water back up to 100mL with no problems, and be closer to the 25%-30% ethanol content of a very mild sublingual tincture.

Hope this helps.


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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: PGA tincture question [Re: niteowl]
    #860860 - 09/18/23 10:26 AM (9 months, 28 days ago)

I thought so, but wanted confirmation before I went any further with the reduction process.

Thanks, Data, you're a true gem.


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: PGA tincture question [Re: niteowl]
    #860903 - 09/23/23 12:04 PM (9 months, 23 days ago)

Another quick query.

If this alcohol tincture is mixed into a baked good, like a cookie or a brownie, will the alcohol-bound THC evaporate with the alcohol, or will it remain bound inside whatever batter was used, and get converted to 11-hydroxy-THC?


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-

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Offlineyoosername
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Re: PGA tincture question [Re: niteowl]
    #860904 - 09/23/23 12:10 PM (9 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Another quick query.

If this alcohol tincture is mixed into a baked good, like a cookie or a brownie, will the alcohol-bound THC evaporate with the alcohol, or will it remain bound inside whatever batter was used, and get converted to 11-hydroxy-THC?




It will remain, though some of it will be broken down to CBN during the baking of the goods.  Tends to make edibles sleepier.

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: PGA tincture question [Re: niteowl]
    #860905 - 09/23/23 01:07 PM (9 months, 23 days ago)

What if the alcohol tincture is in a drink like coffee or milk?

Will the THC get converted to 11-hydroxy-THC, or will it get absorbed by the lining too fast and remain akin to THC as it does under the tongue?

{My understanding of the process is that in a traditional oil-based edible, the THC has to be released from the oil, and in this process, it is converted to 11-hydroxy-THC. Will this happen with this alcohol-based tincture?}

I have a friend who can't tolerate edibles, so the tincture works better for her.
I just wondered how it would work if she put it in her morning coffee.

I have another friend who can't digest fats well, so a traditional edible won't work. I was hoping that this tincture would work in the edible, but I was afraid most of the THC would be lost in the baking process.


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-

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InvisibleDataM
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Re: PGA tincture question [Re: niteowl]
    #860908 - 09/23/23 03:29 PM (9 months, 23 days ago)

All thc routes of administration have some level of thc conversion to 11-hydroxy. It has nothing to do with the carrier, but the amount of exposure to Cytochrome P450 enzymes in the liver.

Digestion usually absorbs into blood vessels that are more directly coupled to the liver, to facilitate first-pass metabolism, and thus a higher portion of the thc is converted to 11-hydroxy.

In the case of inhalation (smoking or vaping) and sublingual routes, the blood vessels in the lungs and the mucosa linings of the mouth aren't as directly could to the liver, so more of thc passes the blood-brain barrier prior to getting converted to 11-hydroxy in the liver.

Yoosername is correct, thc vaporizes around 315F, and although most baked goods are baked at an oven setting of 350F, the presence of water in the recipe keeps the bulk temp of the baked goods below 212F. The entirety of baked goods are considered "done" well below a bulk internal temp of 250F (most are done well below 200F). So, the thc will never get hot enough to vaporize out of the goods, even if the alcohol evaporates out of the mixture.

The only thing to remember is that baked goods recipes are typically sensitive to the ratio of dry/wet ingredients, so you probably way to use the undiluted version of the PGA tincture to minimize the volume of extra liquid you add to the recipe.


TLDR: adding any thc to a medium destined for the stomach will be majority 11-hydroxy-thc by the time it reaches the brain, regardless of what its mixed with.

Also, you can bake thc tincture into edibles, but I'd leave it un-diluted to minimize the amount of extra liquid added to the recipe.


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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: PGA tincture question [Re: niteowl]
    #860909 - 09/23/23 03:43 PM (9 months, 23 days ago)

:highfive:

Awesome info, guys!!

Thanks a ton.

So, even though alcohol tinctures are quickly absorbed into the skin, any alcohol tincture inside the gut will mostly become converted to 11-hydroxy-THC, and any baked goods using said tincture should still retain their potency.

Gotcha.

Oh, and I tried diluting it, Data, and it doesn't absorb under the tongue as well, so I'm just using straight, undiluted tincture now. Some under the tongue (or on the tongue really, straight PGA under there is :fire:), but most of it goes in my coffee, so I assume it's getting converted to 11-hydroxy-THC.


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: PGA tincture question [Re: niteowl]
    #861059 - 10/16/23 02:29 PM (9 months, 17 hours ago)

Another interesting observation? Question?

It seems that the cannibinoids, once extracted by PGA, become water-soluble.

Would it be possible to (using the original numbers) take a 100ml PGA tincture, add 100ml water, and slowly evaporate off the PGA back to a volume of 100ml? So it is the same tincture, just with water rather than alcohol as the base.


Could you then take this water-based tincture and make a nasal spray out of it?


--------------------
The Ego is a pathological condition
like a calcareous tumor or cyst
that begins growing in the personality
in the absence of hallucinogenic substances
-Terence McKenna-

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