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Offlineconthedon
Stranger
Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Leaves Curled Downward and "Rippled"
    #776297 - 04/17/15 01:49 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Soil Growers:
1. Are you growing from seed or clones? Seed

2. How old are your plants? 2 months (60 days)

3. How tall are your plants? Vary from under 1 foot to 1.5 feet

4. What size containers are they planted in? 5 gallon buckets

5. What is your soil mix? Fox Farm Ocean Forest

6. How often do you water and what type of water do you use and how much you give per watering? When the top of the soil seems to be drying (2-4 days). Watered until soil is what I consider "adequately" moist. Was watering everyday but have cut back for fear of overwatering

7. What is the pH of your water? unknown and variable, probably acidic when  rainwater is used but 7 when distilled water is used

8. What kind of fertilizer do you use and what is its NPK ratio? Just started on photosynthesis plus which contains:
Bacterial culture and Fungal strains 3.65%
De-ionized water 96.35%
Guaranteed Analysis Percentage
Available Phosphate (P2O5) 0.5%
Soluble Potash (K2O)
also using cyto plus from Bio Ag contains:
N-P-K (0-0-7.5)
Guaranteed Analysis:
Boron (B)...............0.25% Manganese (Mn)..........0.8% Soluble Potash (K2O)......7.5%
Cobalt (Co)........... 0.035% Molybdenum (Mo)........0.05%
Copper (Cu).......... 0.13% Sulfur (S)......................3.25%
Iron (Fe).................0.9% Zinc (Zn).......................0.5%
Non-plant food ingredients: Humic acid 38% and Fulvic Acid 9%, Seaweed Extract 25%
(derived from Ascophyllum Nodosum)
Some mulch has also been applied for nitrogen

9. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything? No

10. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights") Fluorescent T5 system 4 tube 6400k tubes

11. How close are your lights to the plants? A few inches

12. What size is your grow space in square feet? Approximately 9 sq ft

13. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space? Unknown

14. What is the pH of the soil? Unknown

15. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space? Fungal gnats among others, trying to promote a "living soil" while minimizing pests like fungal gnats

16. How much experience do you have growing? None with cannabis, novice gardener

My problem is the leaves have been curled at the tip for awhile and I also notice what I can best describe as "ripples" at the midrib toward the apex of the leaves



Edited by conthedon (04/17/15 09:14 PM)


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Invisibleoeric mckenna
Pure Indica


Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 758
Loc: Mars
Re: Leaves Curled Downward and "Rippled" [Re: conthedon]
    #776305 - 04/17/15 03:33 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

That downward sag is making me think the roots are starved for oxygen via overwatering, improper holes ect
P.s. That nutrient you're using doesnt look good for cannabis. Especially in veg


--------------------
***Handing someone your life's work....in a single seed = :laugh: ***

HIGHER THAN A GEORGIA PINE

Oeric's Winter Grow Projects


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OfflineGoonerHeClips
Stranger

Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 378
Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
Re: Leaves Curled Downward and "Rippled" [Re: conthedon]
    #776341 - 04/17/15 09:19 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Your leaves look fine to me.  Your fertilizer choice, however, is not fine.  Way too much potash, and virtually no Nitrogen or Phosphorus. 

Get a real pH meter.  Unknown is not a good answer.  Whether it's rain water or Distilled, you need a meter to measure your final pH before feeding. 

Fungal gnats.  The only thing that works, period, is predatory nematodes.  Period.  Well yellow sticky traps for the adults before they lay eggs.  BeneficialInsectary in Redding CA is a good source.  Just water them in and they kill the larvae that do the damage to your roots that will fuck up your plants given time...


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Offlineconthedon
Stranger

Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Leaves Curled Downward and [Re: oeric mckenna]
    #776351 - 04/17/15 11:36 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

P.s. That nutrient you're using doesnt look good for cannabis. Especially in veg



I don't mean to be condescending, but can you explain?
From what I understand photosynthesis plus is specifically for veg because it enhances photosynthesis and biological function by allowing plants to capture and utilize radiant energy more efficiently.
Would that not be beneficial in the veg stage?


Edited by conthedon (04/17/15 12:02 PM)


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Offlineconthedon
Stranger

Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Leaves Curled Downward and "Rippled" [Re: GoonerHeClips]
    #776355 - 04/17/15 11:49 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Get a real pH meter.  Unknown is not a good answer.  Whether it's rain water or Distilled, you need a meter to measure your final pH before feeding



I realize not knowing my pH is a problem and I will be investing in soil and water testing kits.

Quote:

Your fertilizer choice, however, is not fine.  Way too much potash, and virtually no Nitrogen or Phosphorus.



I also realize there is a lack of nitrogen in the nutes, but it is my hope that by trying to promote a living soil with a complete soil food web and the application of mulch, I wont need to add any bottled fertilizers at all. The nutes i'm using now are more for their living biologic components (mycorhizae and bacteria) as well as the humic and fluvic acids rather than to actually feed the plants N-P-K directly. It is my understanding that the soil biology will break down organic matter (mulch) and turn it into nutrients available to the plants.

Do my plants appear to be showing signs of nutrient deficiency?
How much is too much potash and what are the drawbacks?

Quote:

Fungal gnats.  The only thing that works, period, is predatory nematodes.  Period.  Well yellow sticky traps for the adults before they lay eggs.  BeneficialInsectary in Redding CA is a good source.  Just water them in and they kill the larvae that do the damage to your roots that will fuck up your plants given time...



The fungus gnats are not really a problem as of yet, I do have sticky traps and I am looking into the predatory nematodes even though I am certain my soil already contains some from the inoculations of bio-regional soil that I introduced a while back.

Thanks for any information, this is my first grow and I like to experiment


Edited by conthedon (04/17/15 12:06 PM)


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Invisibleoeric mckenna
Pure Indica


Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 758
Loc: Mars
Re: Leaves Curled Downward and "Rippled" [Re: conthedon]
    #776362 - 04/17/15 02:22 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Only way to kill gnats?
Man, there are many ways.
Diatomaceous earth for instance.

" Do my plants appear to be showing signs of nutrient deficiency?"

,actually I'd say no.
No red stems or anything even...
Maybe some slight yellowing from lack of Nitrogen.
Cannabis needs a fair amount of nitrogen in veg and thats why I was saying that fertilizer  was not designed for cannabis

I grew for many years without a ph meter. Sometimes you get lucky.
In such an instance, keeping nutrients on the lower end is better than higher.


--------------------
***Handing someone your life's work....in a single seed = :laugh: ***

HIGHER THAN A GEORGIA PINE

Oeric's Winter Grow Projects


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Offlineconthedon
Stranger

Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Leaves Curled Downward and "Rippled" [Re: oeric mckenna]
    #776372 - 04/17/15 03:56 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Only way to kill gnats?
Man, there are many ways.
Diatomaceous earth for instance.




Yeah I read about diatomaceous earth or a rock layer over the top to prevent them laying eggs, but I want to encourage microbial and fungal life in my soil on the top layers so they can break down any organic matter applied to the top. I'm hoping the fly traps will keep them in check. I don't need them to be completely eliminated actually though because they add to the soil food web.

Quote:

No red stems or anything even...
Maybe some slight yellowing from lack of Nitrogen.
Cannabis needs a fair amount of nitrogen in veg and thats why I was saying that fertilizer  was not designed for cannabis




I actually do see some red actually more purple on the stems towards some fan leaves but not all of them, I thought it was more of a characteristic of the plant rather than a deficiency but I could be wrong. Ill try and get pictures soon. I am gonna get a soil test kit and check the nitrogen levels also.

Quote:

I grew for many years without a ph meter. Sometimes you get lucky.
In such an instance, keeping nutrients on the lower end is better than higher.



Im really interested in natural farming and the teachings of Masanobu Fukuoka so its my belief that the soil can regulate itself if the soil ecosystem is healthy and diverse. I am still going to get a pH meter and a soil test kit to check all my levels just to make sure everything is good though. I might even invest in a soil microscope to observe the micro-diversity.
Thanks for all your info I really appreciate the feedback


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Offlineashfiken
im home
Male

Registered: 09/25/14
Posts: 221
Last seen: 4 days, 19 hours
Re: Leaves Curled Downward and "Rippled" [Re: conthedon]
    #776389 - 04/17/15 08:45 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Creating a diverse soil and healthy micro ecosystem is difficult. Especially indoors. I see you started with fox farms of.. it is my experience that this is a strongly fertilized soil but not necessarily one full of microbes and beneficial micro activity. To create a soil of such content one would need additive microbe/myco treatment to soil at beginning, or would have to add a natural active soil from another source to contribute to the overall vitality of the soil. Ive been reading tons on soil lately, one of the most unknown and least understood sciences on the planet. Hope this helps.

Cheers


--------------------
Hmmm

I'm from shroomery


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OfflineGoonerHeClips
Stranger

Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 378
Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
Re: Leaves Curled Downward and "Rippled" [Re: oeric mckenna]
    #776410 - 04/18/15 07:33 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

oeric mckenna said:
Only way to kill gnats?
Man, there are many ways.
Diatomaceous earth for instance.







DE doesn't kill the larvae deep in the soil.  It's dusty, messy, and ineffective.


Edited by GoonerHeClips (04/18/15 07:34 AM)


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OfflineGoonerHeClips
Stranger

Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 378
Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
Re: Leaves Curled Downward and "Rippled" [Re: conthedon]
    #776411 - 04/18/15 07:49 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

conthedon said:
Quote:

Get a real pH meter.  Unknown is not a good answer.  Whether it's rain water or Distilled, you need a meter to measure your final pH before feeding



I realize not knowing my pH is a problem and I will be investing in soil and water testing kits.

Quote:

Your fertilizer choice, however, is not fine.  Way too much potash, and virtually no Nitrogen or Phosphorus.



I also realize there is a lack of nitrogen in the nutes, but it is my hope that by trying to promote a living soil with a complete soil food web and the application of mulch, I wont need to add any bottled fertilizers at all. The nutes i'm using now are more for their living biologic components (mycorhizae and bacteria) as well as the humic and fluvic acids rather than to actually feed the plants N-P-K directly. It is my understanding that the soil biology will break down organic matter (mulch) and turn it into nutrients available to the plants.

Do my plants appear to be showing signs of nutrient deficiency?
How much is too much potash and what are the drawbacks?

Quote:

Fungal gnats.  The only thing that works, period, is predatory nematodes.  Period.  Well yellow sticky traps for the adults before they lay eggs.  BeneficialInsectary in Redding CA is a good source.  Just water them in and they kill the larvae that do the damage to your roots that will fuck up your plants given time...



The fungus gnats are not really a problem as of yet, I do have sticky traps and I am looking into the predatory nematodes even though I am certain my soil already contains some from the inoculations of bio-regional soil that I introduced a while back.

Thanks for any information, this is my first grow and I like to experiment




Here's my advice for your next grow.  Take the soil, and all the bugs, mold and fungi it contains, and use it outside.  Find a hydro store that carries Canna Coco and nutrients.  Use them.  Buy a pH meter with a digital readout, and a TDS meter with a digital readout.  Use them.

Add predatory nematodes and Stratio-S mites (prev. Hypoaspis miles) with each and every grow as a preventative/cure for soil insects.  Use yellow sticky traps to catch adults.


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Offlineconthedon
Stranger

Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Leaves Curled Downward and "Rippled" [Re: ashfiken]
    #776463 - 04/18/15 10:46 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

To create a soil of such content one would need additive microbe/myco treatment to soil at beginning, or would have to add a natural active soil from another source to contribute to the overall vitality of the soil




Yeah there was actually a small amount of happy frog (which is active) in there from before I transplanted these girls into their current 5 gals. I also have added worm castings which were mixed in with natural soil from my vermicompost bin. With the addition of the photosynthesis plus, im confident my soil is active (plus you can see mycelium growing).

Thanks for the info though, its all very much appreciated. I find soil science and mycology absolutely fascinating, mycelium is like the vast inter-web of an invisible subterranean world.


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Offlineconthedon
Stranger

Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Leaves Curled Downward and "Rippled" [Re: GoonerHeClips]
    #776465 - 04/18/15 11:04 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DE doesn't kill the larvae deep in the soil.  It's dusty, messy, and ineffective



I probably wont be using DE but thanks for the heads up

Quote:

Take the soil, and all the bugs, mold and fungi it contains, and use it outside



Haha I wish I could grow outside, but that currently isn't an option, at least for the moment. If I was growing outside in the ground though I wouldn't need to add any of the biotic components, they'd already be present.

Quote:

Find a hydro store that carries Canna Coco and nutrients.  Use them



The canna coco seems like a really awesome product. I wasnt really interested in using a straight coco substrate before, but I might check it out now, thanks. Im pretty determined to not apply bottled nutes and chem fertilizers though, Id rather grow using natural methods but thanks for the advice.

Quote:

Buy a pH meter with a digital readout, and a TDS meter with a digital readout.  Use them



Yes, this is key. I will definitely be getting a pH meter, a hygrometer, a thermometer, etc. as soon as I am able to



We definitely have some differences in our ideologies, but I sincerely thank you for your advice. Thats what im here for, to learn and get advice from experienced growers. Check out the no-till living soil methods if you ever get a chance though, you might read something you like. Or maybe you'll find it to be a bunch of bullshit. Either way check it out all the same, thanks


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OfflineGoonerHeClips
Stranger

Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 378
Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
Re: Leaves Curled Downward and "Rippled" [Re: conthedon]
    #776493 - 04/19/15 11:04 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Maybe make some earthworm casting tea with molasses and fish emulsion bubble it with an airstone/aquarium pump for a day...


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