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OfflineThe Observer
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Registered: 01/01/15
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Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Please Help -What kind of deficiency is this?
    #764283 - 01/03/15 10:54 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Hey guys- a long time Shroomery member now needs your help in The Growery.This is my first time Hydro grow and all has been rather well but in the past two weeks a few problems ensued..

I am running a DWC setup with two plants with each of them in their own 5 gal container and have an additional 5 gal reservoir. They share the same feeding schedule...PH and PPM's. They just went through their 5/6th week and veg and I just flipped them to flower after the new year!

My concern are the pictures below. One of my plants has developed some sort of deficiency, rather quickly. As you see there are many necrosis spots all over the solar leaves and spreading, even some of the new growth has them. I noticed these spots earlier on but there were so few and they were so tiny I didn't give it any concern. However into the 4-5th week of veg they began to spread quickly. This plant has also showed signs of leaf pin holing from an early age - tiny little holes appearing in the plant leaves naturally. All this is even more odd when the exact same strain with identical conditions is just fine next to it.

I thought it may be Cal/Mag deficiency and added that about 4 days ago. Can't tell yet if there is any improvement, it seems some of the new leaves came in with some problems. I also thought it may be nute burn since in the 5th week i went from 780 to 990. So I flushed yesterday adding only a few things in that may help with a total PPM of 400. I would like to resume feeding in the next day or so but think that I may need to let them recover? Any ideas guys?

The strain is Full Moon - Sativa
The setup is- DWC - Hydro
Nutes - FoxFarm with the latest PPMS - 4th week - 780 5th week - 990
Now adding additional - Cal/Mag/ Hydroguard/ Kelp
Age - 6 and just turned to flower
Light - 600W HPS (now that they are in flower)
Light Height - 8-10"

Thanks in advance,

Plant in question:


Still the Plant with problem but you can see that some leaves on the plant are just fine, the solar leaves are definitely dying thought...


This is the second plant that is just fine:


And this is my overall setup- as you can see both plants look healthy and this was only a week before any problems showed up...


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Please Help -What kind of deficiency is this? [Re: The Observer]
    #764296 - 01/04/15 03:56 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

There's a questionnaire at the top of this forum.  Please fill it out, it will help us help you


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineThe Observer
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Re: Please Help -What kind of deficiency is this? [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #764304 - 01/04/15 11:48 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Sure thing:

1. Are you growing from seed or clones? - Seed
2. How old are your plants? - 6 Week and Just turned to 12/12
3. How tall are your plants? - 30-32"
4. What type of hydro system are you using? - DWC
5. What brand/type of nutrients are you using? - FoxFarm
6. What is the Ph of your nutrient solution? - 5.6-6.5
7. What is the PPM/EC of your tap water? - 220 ppm
8. What is the PPM/EC of your nutrient solution? -  4 wks 788 ppm, 5 wks - 980 ppm - 6 wk - flush cause of problem refilled with 400 ppm (some Cal Mag and Hydroguard.
9. What is the temperature of your nutrient solution? 62-68
10. Does your PPM/EC show a rise or fall when you do your daily PPM check? - PPM falls.
11. Does your pH show a rise or fall when you do your daily check? -Raise (used to raise from 5.6 to 7.8 daily) but now that they are flowering it has been fairly stable.
12. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything? - No
13. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights") 600 W HPS now that they are in 12/12. Lights are cooled.(MH for veg)
14. How close are your lights to the plants? 8-10"
15. What size is your grow space in square feet? - 15sq ft (3'x5')
16. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space? Temperature used to be a steady 80 now is between 66-72.
17. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space?- No insects whatsoever, clean space.
18. How much experience do you have growing? Have had some soil about a decade ago and am now stepping into hydro brand new.

Thanks again,


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OfflineGoonerHeClips
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Re: Please Help -What kind of deficiency is this? [Re: The Observer]
    #764309 - 01/04/15 01:08 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

What is the pH of your water going in?  I bet it's 7.8 or thereabouts and buffered either naturally or by the water company to protect their pipes.  Alkaline water sucks.  Time for an RO system.

Perhaps you are using the "recommended" amount of solids by FoxFarms the fertilizer salesmen, but it seems high to me.  Not having done DWC perhaps I am wrong, but 980 at week 5 of veg?  No wonder you had to lower it in emergency, but more likely it's nutrient lockout causing you to want to do that based on your pH literally being all over the place.  Quite a range going in how are you even measuring it?

Your plant even with an "air cooled light" probably doesn't really want to be a mere 8" away first week in flowering.

Temperature down from 80 F now 68 F?  Your plant can't be happy about that drop in such a short time.


Edited by GoonerHeClips (01/04/15 01:10 PM)


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OfflineThe Observer
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Re: Please Help -What kind of deficiency is this? [Re: GoonerHeClips]
    #764319 - 01/04/15 04:25 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

GoonerHeClips said:
What is the pH of your water going in?  I bet it's 7.8 or thereabouts and buffered either naturally or by the water company to protect their pipes.  Alkaline water sucks.  Time for an RO system.

Perhaps you are using the "recommended" amount of solids by FoxFarms the fertilizer salesmen, but it seems high to me.  Not having done DWC perhaps I am wrong, but 980 at week 5 of veg?  No wonder you had to lower it in emergency, but more likely it's nutrient lockout causing you to want to do that based on your pH literally being all over the place.  Quite a range going in how are you even measuring it?

Your plant even with an "air cooled light" probably doesn't really want to be a mere 8" away first week in flowering.

Temperature down from 80 F now 68 F?  Your plant can't be happy about that drop in such a short time.




Yep, the water where I am is buffered a lot - 7.8-8.4! I went out and got RO water today. Am going to do another flush with it and add back 1/2 nutes.

I agree the 980 seemed high to me as well, it's because that week I added the hydroguard and CalMag and it upped it an additional 200. Will keep it at around 700 this time. The P.H in the water has now stabilized with my help to about 5.9-6.1. What would be the nutrient lockout if the PH is between 5.5-6.5? I thought this was the ideal range, is it not?

Are you saying I should bring the light up or down? I am not sure. I had it lower at about 6" and I did not see any burn but with the other problems I didn't want to chance it and raised it back to 10"

Temperature is harder to control where I am at since it's below zero now. So with the heating that I can provide in the plant's location I can get the room to 68-70 and the DWC solution to 62-68. These are not daily fluctuations, they are more gradual. Again, I thought these fluctuations would not cause any major problems or lockout.

What would you suggest I do to help them aside from adding a heat source?

Thankjs


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Please Help -What kind of deficiency is this? [Re: The Observer]
    #764339 - 01/04/15 10:05 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

I wouldn't worry about the temp.  They'll be happy at the temps you're at.


I would say you're ppms are too high. Thats a pretty high starting ppm as well, which could be causing issues.  Contact the utility that supplies your water, they can give you a read out of what's making that up.


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineThe Observer
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Re: Please Help -What kind of deficiency is this? [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #764341 - 01/05/15 12:46 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Do you think backing them down to 700 would be better?

I agree, I think the ppms burned one of them up! The problem has slowed and new growth seems pretty clean after the flush. The solar leaves are fried :frown: but the plant still looks healthy. However, new growth has also slowed so I want to introduce flowering nutes, especially since I just flipped to 12/12.

What do you think?

Thanks again for the help!


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: Please Help -What kind of deficiency is this? [Re: The Observer]
    #764342 - 01/05/15 01:13 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Getting ahead of yourself.  Just lower em and slowly switch over to flowing nutrients.  Less is more a lot of the times


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineGoonerHeClips
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Re: Please Help -What kind of deficiency is this? [Re: The Observer]
    #764355 - 01/05/15 09:39 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Observer said:
Quote:

GoonerHeClips said:
What is the pH of your water going in?  I bet it's 7.8 or thereabouts and buffered either naturally or by the water company to protect their pipes.  Alkaline water sucks.  Time for an RO system.

Perhaps you are using the "recommended" amount of solids by FoxFarms the fertilizer salesmen, but it seems high to me.  Not having done DWC perhaps I am wrong, but 980 at week 5 of veg?  No wonder you had to lower it in emergency, but more likely it's nutrient lockout causing you to want to do that based on your pH literally being all over the place.  Quite a range going in how are you even measuring it?

Your plant even with an "air cooled light" probably doesn't really want to be a mere 8" away first week in flowering.

Temperature down from 80 F now 68 F?  Your plant can't be happy about that drop in such a short time.




Yep, the water where I am is buffered a lot - 7.8-8.4! I went out and got RO water today. Am going to do another flush with it and add back 1/2 nutes.

I agree the 980 seemed high to me as well, it's because that week I added the hydroguard and CalMag and it upped it an additional 200. Will keep it at around 700 this time. The P.H in the water has now stabilized with my help to about 5.9-6.1. What would be the nutrient lockout if the PH is between 5.5-6.5? I thought this was the ideal range, is it not?

Are you saying I should bring the light up or down? I am not sure. I had it lower at about 6" and I did not see any burn but with the other problems I didn't want to chance it and raised it back to 10"

Temperature is harder to control where I am at since it's below zero now. So with the heating that I can provide in the plant's location I can get the room to 68-70 and the DWC solution to 62-68. These are not daily fluctuations, they are more gradual. Again, I thought these fluctuations would not cause any major problems or lockout.

What would you suggest I do to help them aside from adding a heat source?

Thankjs




As long as your heat is pretty constant that's better, you made it sound like it was a fast 12 deg drop.  Maybe raise your buckets up underneath with 2x4s to keep the colder floor from impacting them?

Your OP talked about the pH going back up to 7.8.  That's a big increase.  I seem to struggle with the water company buffering even after an RO filter and at 1 ppm.  Insidious.  Even a range of 5.6-6.5 is too much.  Tighten that up to 5.9 or whatever plus or minus 0.1, with each change of nutrients.

As for the light, I'm not familiar enough with air cooled 600w ones to say for sure, but even 10" seems a little close to me for an HPS.  The 1000w ones more like 14" minimum IMO.


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OfflineThe Observer
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Re: Please Help -What kind of deficiency is this? [Re: GoonerHeClips]
    #764522 - 01/06/15 11:38 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Hey guys-

Thanks again for the help. Here is an update on what's been happening and the current status of the plants.

I took everyone's advice and tried several things since/during my last few posts. I let the plants chill out in a clean PH adjusted tap water for about 4 days( the PPM's were still around 260-300). Both plants didn't seem to improve or get worse at this stage. On plant 2 (the one that was showing advancing problems) the leaves that were already affected and showed necrosis continued to get worse while some new growth came in healthy but some quickly began to develop dark spots. Plant 1 is still overall very healthy but began to show very light brown spots on more leaves (pics below). I am concerned about this since this is all while I took things out not added more things in.

After the 4th day. I got RO water and slowly introduced flowering nutes raising the total PPM to 550. The plants seemed to really like this, the PH stabilized very easy, the plants began consuming nutes (500 down from 550 overnight). They seemed to perk up a bit and pick up growth again. Overall they are still growing but I am concerned that new growth is still coming in with dark spots and that my unaffected plant is seeming to show early signs of the same problem. (Pics below). I know it hasn't been too long so I may not see signs of improvement yet.
Do you think this will affect flowering negatively? I have one pic of where I'm at after turning on the 1st.

Thanks,







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OfflineThe Observer
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Re: Please Help -What kind of deficiency is this? [Re: The Observer]
    #764650 - 01/07/15 09:53 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Any thoughts? Checked again today. PPM's still going down down, at 450 now.


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Re: Please Help -What kind of deficiency is this? [Re: The Observer]
    #764670 - 01/08/15 01:42 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

What all are you adding now? And at what strengths?


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineThe Observer
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Re: Please Help -What kind of deficiency is this? [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #764852 - 01/10/15 01:44 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Thanks for the response.

For each 5 gal bucket filled with 3.5-4 gals of RO water I am adding in:

4.5 tsp FoxFarm BigBloom Total ( 3 tsp/gal is FoxFarm recom.)
4 tsp Tiger Bloom total (2 tsp/gal is FoxFarm recom.)
1 tsp total Hydroguard
1 pipette drop of Kelp total (a peppette drop)
3 tsp CalMag total  (2 tsp/gal is recom.)
1 tsp B1 Thrive Alive total (2 tsp per res change recom.)

With RO water this equaled to 550 ppm. As of the last change the PPM's are down to 339. As you can see I am using 1/2 or less recommend dosage and the plants are using up the nutes nicely.The PH has been very stable at 5.9-6.0 which is awesome.

Plant 1 (with problems) is still looking beat and some leaves are still coming in with problems. The other plant is rock solid. Still no idea of what's going on with Plant 1. 10 days into flowering.

Thanks,


Edited by The Observer (01/10/15 01:56 PM)


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Re: Please Help -What kind of deficiency is this? [Re: The Observer]
    #764959 - 01/11/15 02:05 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Plant 1 is obviously more sensitive to nutrients and is getting burned.  You need to flush and start over with less. 

That's a pretty heavy nute regimen, i would back off on the other plant as well


--------------------
Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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