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OfflineMidgetpawn
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Re: The Preferred Nutrient Solution of The Growery Community 2013. [Re: phychotron]
    #711070 - 02/02/14 08:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Interesting. I see even small companies putting things like O.G. in front of their names with no explained significance of the OG. Of course people assume and are probably right.

I get the impression it's not easy distributing nutrients around the world. I think I'd try for a name loophole and claim my nutrients are based on my buddy Marijuana's formula and make "Marijuana's A and B formula" heh idk

btw I wasn't attacking anyone with my black history month comment. I think the idea of a month to showcase a few notable people that have a certain skin color is a little degrading and promotes the idea that "you are different" and only deserve a month of patronage.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: The Preferred Nutrient Solution of The Growery Community 2013. [Re: Midgetpawn]
    #711101 - 02/02/14 11:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

This country has wronged black people for so long that they need to raise awareness to the social cruelties set upon them as well as their cultural influence. The achievements of the few refute the traditional held belief that blacks are in fact inferior and are therefor showcased as what is possible if they are allowed to assimilate into white society.  Black history all year would just drown out the issue; once a year allows you to revisit the issue safely, but time and again so that your opinion matures with you. The entire month almost ensures that you think about the issue at least once.

But lets not get too off topic here, there are other forums for that sort of discussion.


I'm sure one day there will be a product like Miracle Grow for bud just like they have one for tomatoes, its just a matter of time before its legal enough for someone to do it.


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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisibleDrGreenThumb
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Re: The Preferred Nutrient Solution of The Growery Community 2013. [Re: phychotron]
    #711328 - 02/03/14 06:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Dude, you're awesome. You make so many good points here I can no longer remain silent on this issue.
Quote:

Midgetpawn said:
Yea that occurred to me after writing this, but I'd read(I think on growery) that Botanicare supposedly has excessive amounts of water in their forumlas.




Quote:

Midgetpawn said:
Yea maybe they are no more watered down than the other top liquid nutrient brands. I really have no idea. BTW all bio-bizz's products have (discontinued) next to them on amazon.

All I know is I'm having a hard time choosing a nutrient line to try out/compare and you can pretty much eliminate them all if you use opinion to decide. I'm about to just support some small underdog company like blue planet or maverick sun.



What many people don't realize when they buy ANY LIQUID nutrients is that you are basically buying BOTTLED WATER! These nutrient companies make a base nutrient, MIX WITH WATER (just like Kool-Aid but you mix that at home), and sell it in the hydro store. Why you ask? Ask the guy who started selling bottled water. Water is cheap.

Ever notice that most solid(powdered) nutrients have a parallel liquid line? Wonder why most liquid nutrients do not have a parallel solid line? Because it's more profitable to sell water. 'They' (grow stores and nutrient companys) both know this and want you to think, "Well this works for my buddy and it's 'tuned' for my plant so since it costs more money it must work better, right?" The whole "You get what you pay for, argument?"

Sounds more like a sales pitch to me.

Quote:

CrushNazT said:
i ignore what companies say about their products. the best way to figure it out is to see whats tried and true. see what other people use. i switched to botanicare when i moved to colorado after i saw my friends grow in denver. amazing 50+ plant grow. the final product was amazing, so i was sold. zero complaints with it.




The first part of this is spot on, the second part is exactly what I'm talking about. To an extent.


Quote:

Harry_Ba11sach said:
Quote:

Midgetpawn said:


One of these companies should really just straight up make a cannabis fertilizer line that talks about being for and has specific directions for cannabis.





You know Advanced Nutrients does that, right? And honestly that's why they get such consistently stellar reviews (from people that have used it). It's made specifically for cannabis, and honestly it shows.



So do these guys. The Growology System. It's a 3-part complete nutrient regimen designed specifically for medical cannabis. It's a combination of organic and non-organic ingredients and it works great! I want to be clear that this IS NOT what I use in my grow.

Quote:

hawksapprentice said:
Well they're all specifically designed for cannabis.  They just don't advertise it as such.



They are? I thought they were all specifically designed for growing plants. How many people use the General Hydro 3-part Flora Series? Tuned for cannabis? Would you be surprised to know that the GH Flora Series grows many of the greenhouse peppers and tomatoes (and an ass-load of other hydroponic vegetables) that you buy in your local supermarket, or the flowers you give your Mom on Mothers day? Just saying, maybe they're not so much designed for growing cannabis as growing plants.

Quote:

phychotron said:
You can pretty much figure that most all of the liquid nutrients out there are geared toward cannabis to begin with, so you don't really need them to say it. It also makes your brand less universal for that random actual tomato gardener who might pass on it.




Oh yeah they are! It's easy to sell water to someone with cottonmouth. What a crock. When was the last time the guy at the hydro store tried to sell you solid(powdered) nutrients? Anyone?

Why can't you grow plants with things you find at a garden store or greenhouse. I mean after all, when you step back and look at it you're just growing plants. It's not too complicated. I'm sure many of you have a friend or family member with a real vegetable garden. Do their corn, peas, tomatoes, etc., taste like crap because they used garden store nutrients or forgot to flush their soil? Did their flowers not bloom because they had deficiencies and had to run to the garden store to buy $100 gallon or $30 quart(it gets worse) of nutrients? Not likely.

I worked at a family farm and greenhouse for years. We grew so many different kinds of flowers, fruits and vegetables it would make your head spin, multiple directions. There were a couple of different fertilizer formulations that were used for an entire 600 acre farm and greenhouse. All of them fit in 8ft. worth of space. None of them were $30 quarts or $100 gallons. No one ever came back and said, "My flowers died" or "My carrots taste like crap."  Think about that the next time you're in the hydro store spending your paycheck on nutrients.



I know someone who grows with liquid "grow store" nutrients and I personally do not. I gave him some clones. Mine are clearly doing much better than his by a long shot, it's not even a contest. And to top it off, the clones I gave him are the best looking plants he has overall.  He's convinced that his end product is going to be better than mine because his have never had a deficiency so far. What he doesn't understand is his plants aren't growing fast enough to have a deficiency. He's going to have to veg almost twice as long to get the same size plant.

Growers routinely convince themselves that since they're paying a premium price for their nutrients that they will get a premium product despite the evidence they see in front of their face. Personally, I don't need fire-breathing dragons sexy pin-up girls or fancy photo-shopped lightning bolts and shiny labels to grow weed. P.T. Barnum said, "A sucker is born every minute."

"You get what you pay for" and "You got to spend money to make money" is a sales pitch. You don't make money by overpaying for something. You make money by working.


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“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” -Dr. Seuss


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InvisibleHawksresurrection
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Re: The Preferred Nutrient Solution of The Growery Community 2013. [Re: DrGreenThumb]
    #711337 - 02/03/14 08:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

They are designed for it.  That's a fact.  Of course you can use any of these products to grow other plants, and I do.  But that doesn't mean that companies specializing in these lines aren't designing them for MJ.  I mean look at miracle grow, that shit works great for some plants, but you will get an inferior product applying it to MJ.

And of course the powders are a more economical way to go.  But liquid is a whole lot easier.  Especially for newbies.  Shit a lot of people have enough trouble with figuring out what the fuck to do with the bottled stuff.

You make some valid points, but they're not entirely true.


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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.

-niteowl


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OfflineMidgetpawn
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Re: The Preferred Nutrient Solution of The Growery Community 2013. [Re: Hawksresurrection]
    #711409 - 02/04/14 08:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Heh I have no idea if you are being a dick or not, Drgreenthumb, but I don't claim to be a source of expert information nor am I even 100% sure of anything especially when it comes to growing plants. I try to make that clear if I give advice. I mostly am trying to learn and bullshit.    Or thank you? btw did you start the seed company Dr Greenthumb?

and yea you really shouldn't need any of these bottled liquids or additives to grow successfully. It's not like the average gardener is using more than miracle grow. My dad has only ever grown with 1 bag of miracle grow(fuck MG since Monsanto owns them) and his plants were always huge with some great smelling sticky shit. A little airy, but I think it was the t12 lights.

Anyway, yea since there was no consensus and I've been shopping my ass off. My speculative suggestion is Blue Planet Nutrients. At least I'm buying this shit based on a few things Vs a ton of other nutrient lines that I spent a lot of time considering and looking into. I briefly talked to the creator who seems to genuinely care about offering the highest quality nutrients, he has a masters in plant science from texas a&m. His lines feeding schedule is just 2-3 part main nutriens, a mycorrhizae thing, a vitamin mix(he lists all his ingredients in all his shit), seaweed, and 2 bloom boosters(1-3-3 with micronutrients and 2-4-10 no micronutrients).

As for the 2 bloom booster, which you don't even need and could just use more of their flowering main nutrient, they say this.. I'd never heard this before, but it's not a sales gimmick and based on research according to the creator.

"Once a plant has fully transitioned into the flowering phase, and bud site development is maximized, a bloom booster with a 1:4 ratio of elemental phosphorus to elemental potassium is needed to produce more structurally sound buds (dense bud formation throughout the calyx cluster). After the first half of the flower phase, growers should begin transitioning to a lower phosphorus (P) / higher potassium (K) bloom booster. Elevated levels of phosphorus are no longer needed to maximize development of bud sites but elevated levels of potassium is necessary to plump and harden buds and maximize the yield of high-value plants.  Although Potassium does not form a structural part of any plant component or compound, It is required for various metabolic activities and physiological functions. It is agreed throughout the plant science community that elevated levels of potassium are unequivocally required for maximum yield of flowering plants."

or if you are broke Jack's classic 20-20-20 and 10-30-20 is supposed to do the trick for bud.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: The Preferred Nutrient Solution of The Growery Community 2013. [Re: Midgetpawn] * 1
    #711439 - 02/04/14 12:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You'll find every company jives about how their PK formula is the real correct ratio. And its never a sales pitch, its all based on "research" :wink:

Nutrients are not that expensive, my last crop cost $2.42 per ounce in nutrients, with $0.79/Oz in base nutrients. Its not that I don't know that its cheaper to build my own nutrients, its just that the pain in the ass of setting up my own nutrient line, and not worth it when liquid nutrients are that cheap.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisibleHarry_Ba11sachM
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Re: The Preferred Nutrient Solution of The Growery Community 2013. [Re: phychotron]
    #711443 - 02/04/14 01:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

That's really the thing. People can complain about $100/gallons all they want, but when you're growing a plant that literally sells for upwards of $3000 per lb (don't sell drugs, mmkay?), the investment is hilariously small beans. A $45 liter of Big Bud seems asinine, but it lasts me for 3 harvests of 2lbs each. That's almost literally no money at all at that point.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: The Preferred Nutrient Solution of The Growery Community 2013. [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
    #711518 - 02/04/14 06:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You'll find that a lot of products are priced toward the intended application. For Example, in Walmart they had the EXACT same knife sharpener in the outdoor section for $6 as the kitchen section for $25, just a different color. Trying to sell an outdoor/camping sharpener that your going to use occasionally is harder to sell for $25, but they might sell you a kitchen sharpener that you'll use all the with no problem.

Millions of things are packaged and marketed differently because of it. They charge you for application when they know what your going to do with it. Chemicals especially since those are harder to figure out which one you might need to replace it with if they just called it "windex" or something like that. If you know the base ingredients they're a lot cheaper because there is no specific application they can jack you for.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: The Preferred Nutrient Solution of The Growery Community 2013. [Re: phychotron]
    #711522 - 02/04/14 06:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Its everything, even the paper cup-cake liners. They sell them both in the plastic bag aisle and baking section at different prices and different qty per package so that you have a hard time trying to figure out which one is cheapest per count. Anything that is sold in multiple places throughout the store are most vulnerable: multi-department = multi-packaging = multi-pricing. Seriously, watch out.



Sometimes whole stores are dedicated to specific application, such as hydro stores, but they wouldn't be able to stay in business if they sold the base nutrient powders at rock bottom prices. You'd get your 50lb bags of nutrients that would last you 20 years and never come back. It has to be worth their time to make it and sell it, and therefor must require a profit. The multiple product lines ensures competition so that prices don't get too out of hand. Plus paying a company to develop nutrients and keep up with the current science is worth it.

It really comes down to how much your time is worth or how large of an operation you have. Is it worth the time and space to mix and store all these chemicals around your house? If you have a commercial size operation then its probably worth it to mix your own, but I live in an apartment, I can't just keep a bunch of raw ingredients around. I'm really glad that I can just hand someone $2.50 per ounce for the nutrients to be mixed up and guaranteed to perform, tested for quality, etc. I don't want to come home after a long day and think "OK lets bust out some chemistry real quick then I can finally get to bed."

It seems like it would be fun to learn and do, and probably not THAT hard if your situated for it, but its so hard to break a good system to experiment with saving $30-40 every few months. My time is worth more than that at this point.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflineMrshroom
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Re: The Preferred Nutrient Solution of The Growery Community 2013. [Re: phychotron]
    #711561 - 02/04/14 10:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

well i spent about $32 for my gallon of botanicare cns17 grow and another $32 for my cns17 bloom and my last grow i used about 1/3rd of the grow and half of the bloom , so it really was not that bad of a price for what i got out of it so far


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OfflineFarmer Joe
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Re: The Preferred Nutrient Solution of The Growery Community 2013. [Re: phychotron] * 1
    #711626 - 02/05/14 08:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
its so hard to break a good system to experiment with saving $30-40 every few months. My time is worth more than that at this point.




Exactly :thumbup:  Time is money!

We actually sell 2 powder based nutrient lines at the shop I work at. Our most popular powder nutrient is Raw by NPK Industries.

They make a pretty solid line. anyone here considering switching to powdered nutes should consider giving them a try!


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"Marijuana may not be addictive, but growing it is" - ED Rosenthal



Maine Caregiver In 100% compliance with Maine state laws.


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