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OfflineDudeTron
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Nutrient and Feeding Advice
    #352918 - 01/25/10 10:32 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Okay, so I've got a plant that's about 2 weeks into flower

She's in 2 gallons of FFOF/perlite 80/20

It was repotted at the beginning of flower and was given strait water for the first week.

Now I'm using FF Gro big and Big Bloom. 
One watering @ 1/8tsp gro big, 2 tbsp Big bloom >> 1 gal water
Second watering @ 1/8tsp gro big, 4 tbsp Big bloom >> 1 gal water just last night

This plant is a little large with a 10 week veg, and seems like a little bit of a nute-hog anyway


So, I was doing a little reading and found out that big bloom really isn't much of a standalone bloom fert.

I was wondering if I should go get the Tiger Bloom, or some other bloom nute.
Also curious what you guys thought of the FF solids and other supplemental nutes.
And then, what kind of feeding schedule would you guys recommend?

Also found out Fox Farms isn't quite a "true" organic, though it's a little debatable I guess...


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Offlinedutc2006
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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: DudeTron]
    #353007 - 01/25/10 05:17 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Yes grab some Tiger Bloom.  Big Bloom is just micronutrients, which are good but not targeted towards boosting buds.  I only water with nutes every other watering, or less. 

here is a link to the fox farm feeding schedule:

http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/soilfeed.pdf

Use it as a guide, but do not follow it word for word, pretty much cut almost every measurement in half.  I never go over 1.5tsp/gal Grow Big, and that is for my healthy mature vegging plants and also when I add it during the 3rd and 4th weeks of flower, as you will note in the feeding schedule that they recommend that.  .5 tsp/gal GB is fine for most smaller vegging plants, say 6-10 inches, and then I usually switch to 1 tsp/gal for most strains.  I add 1 tsp/gal Tiger Bloom to all my flowering ferts.  You already missed the time period for Open Sesame on this grow, but I would recommend grabbing some Cha Ching.  You really don't need to waste money getting both Beastie Bloomz and Cha Ching, just adjust the Cha Ching amounts slightly and you will be fine to use it in lieu of BB.  I would not go over 1/4 tsp/gal of the supplemental solubles at any time. 

Don't forget to add unsulphured molasses 1 tbsp/gal flowering. And while were are on the subject I highly recommend Botanicare Sweet, comes in a couple different flavors - use 4tsps/gal during the middle weeks of flowering on the waterings where you aren't feeding nutes.  I promise you your buds will never have tasted as good.  The stuff is expensive, but gives the best tasting end product possible. 

  Hope that helps a little, it basically is my full feeding schedule, except I do not use BB or CC, I use Open Sesame first 2 weeks flower and another bloom booster called Mother Of All Blooms to supplant the BB and CC. 

Oh, and most of the FF stuff is partly organic, they use some organic ingredients, and other synthetics.

Happy Growing!
:peace:


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Invisiblecoda


Registered: 04/20/08
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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: dutc2006]
    #353026 - 01/25/10 07:00 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I never go over 1.5tsp/gal Grow Big, and that is for my healthy mature vegging plants and also when I add it during the 3rd and 4th weeks of flower,




Eh, debatable, less food is always more.  But i regularly feed my mom 3 tsp/gal with no ill effects.

Quote:

Don't forget to add unsulphured molasses 1 tbsp/gal flowering. And while were are on the subject I highly recommend Botanicare Sweet, comes in a couple different flavors -




Go with one or the other, all sweet is is sugar.  Same thing with molasses.  If you want to save some cash and go the all "organic" route, use the molasses.  If you want to drop some cash and use a fancy bottle, go with the sweet (or carbo load, all the same stuff).

I used to be all about the grow big/big bloom/tiger bloom combo.  But lately I've fallen out of love with the last two.  You're much better off using a different brand for your flowering nutes.  The grow big is great for veg though and I highly recommend it.  The GH flora series (not flora nova as it's really intended for hydro) is a great three part system that is easy to use.  If you have the bottle of grow big you could just pick up the flowering portion and the micro portion of the set and use them.  High P+K additives are strongly recommended for flowering, but you can easily grow some damn fine cannabis without them.  As mentioned beastie bloomz, open sesame, and cha ching are excellent choices.  Dry and liquid Kool Bloom are also a popular favorite as well (and is the brand I'm beginning to use during this run). 

Anyways, you definitely need to get some stronger flowering nutes in your feedings as your plants will suffer if all you feed them is big bloom.


--------------------


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Offlinedutc2006
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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: coda]
    #353053 - 01/25/10 08:28 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

coda said:
Eh, debatable, less food is always more.  But i regularly feed my mom 3 tsp/gal with no ill effects.





Are you in FFOF too?  That is impressive, maybe it is just my strains, or their size.  I have 3 foot tall sativa food whores who will burn with 1.5 tsp/gal, so they get 1 tsp/gal and stay forest green, almost blue. 

Quote:

coda said:
all sweet is is sugar.  Same thing with molasses. 




I have to disagree with you there.  I have used molasses alone, and then used Botanicare Sweet alone.  There was a definite change in flavor and bouquet when switched to Sweet.  I now use both, the molasses helps more with resin production than flavor and aroma it seems.  Botanicare Sweet's main nutrients are sulfur and magnesium and they are responsible for the flavor and aroma effects, and yes they are also in molasses.  For whatever reason, cannabis uptakes these elements the most during the middle weeks of flowering.  If you add 4 tsp/gal Sweet during the middle weeks of flowering I guarantee you will notice a better taste and smell from your cured bud.  It has taken strains that did not taste very good even with molasses and made them delicious. 

Note than when you see "unsulfured" molasses, that does not mean it lacks the nutritional sulfur, but that it has no sulfur dioxide, a preservative and antioxidant that would not be good for your plants roots.  Ironic isn't it.  Blackstrap molasses has the most nutritional sulfur.  So if you can find it get unsulfured blackstrap.


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OfflineDudeTron
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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: dutc2006]
    #353077 - 01/25/10 09:12 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Well, I did go out and pick up Tiger Bloom and Cha-Ching... Just a quick price comparison for you guys, the Cha-ching was 29.99 at my local store for the small bottle and 17.99 for the tiger bloom.

After the research I did this morning regarding Fox Farms in general, I was little disappointed I had already kinda gone that route... The first couple times I walked into the hydro store, and noticed that 30% of their floorspace was nutrients, I was confused and surprised...  Now that I've got a healthy largish plant that consumes a quart of water a day and responds quickly to my nutes, I kinda get it. Like how you can mull over an infinite selection of nutes and actually find something just right for your setup.

In the future, I may go with a nicer set of flowering nutes, or go full organic.  I think for now the full 3 part + Cha Ching isn't a bad beginner setup though.

I did see the sweet, but didn't feel like dropping the dough, and the guy next to me lookin at it could only give me a shrug so I skipped it... I've been on the hunt for fucking molasses and it's not a hot item around here.



  Anyway, do you guys think the Tiger Bloom is gonna give me PH grief?  I noticed alot of people have words to say about that one...

And do you guys think my girl deserves a proper feeding next watering or should I lay off cause she got two strait doses already?

  I'm gonna study the chart and what dutc has to say and hmm and haw a bit about it... What kind of schedule did you run Coda?


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Offlinedutc2006
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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: DudeTron]
    #353095 - 01/25/10 09:30 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I hope you have pH up because the Tiger Bloom is gonna drop the pH of your nute mix like crazy.  pH correction is very important, whether you are using nutes or not.  All bloom nutes are acidic and thus drop your pH.  Add the nutes to your water then adjust the pH to 6.5 for soil, or 5.5 for hydro, then add it to your plants.  Also, it is best to use your mixes sooner rather than later, you may notice some algae and bacterial growth in them after they sit around for more than a week.  If you were only feeding them 1/8 tsp/gal GB 2 straight doses I don't think it could hurt to feed them again this week.  How tall are they?

And about FF, they have been in the soil biz for a really long time.  If anybody has soil nutes nailed down I would say it is them.


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OfflineDudeTron
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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: dutc2006]
    #353112 - 01/25/10 09:59 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Figures... I have a bottle of PH down that I don't even use... I guess I'll have to get the up. Maybe they'll let me switch since I haven't used any...  Can I use lime or baking soda or anything in a pinch?  If i found some 7.0+ water will I still need up?

Here's my plant recently... It's not really much of tall... I think the main stem might be about 2 feet long.




I don't really let the nutes sit around.. This plant takes almost a gallon every 3 days or so... I've been letting about the extra quart flush through with every feeding... what do you think of that?

And yeah, FF or whatever, it just feels kinda good having most of the full line.


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Offlinedutc2006
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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: DudeTron]
    #353122 - 01/25/10 10:05 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

My tap water is around 7.5pH and when I add 1 tsp/gal Tiger Bloom it drops the pH down below 5.  I don't about the lime, I would say no to the baking soda though. 

Everything else sounds good.  Nice LST'd bush there.


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OfflineDudeTron
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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: dutc2006]
    #353139 - 01/25/10 10:28 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah man I just did a test and 1 tsp/gal turned my PH red as fuck so I guess I'm on my way to the hydro store again tomorrow.

You ever have any problems using tap water?  Do you try to let some chlorine evaporate or anything?

Thanks for the help... She's my first and only plant.  I'm getting pretty excited to watch her grow now.


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: DudeTron]
    #353174 - 01/25/10 11:00 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Are you in FFOF too?




Sure am, straight out of the bag.  Funny thing is my mom is actually suffering from a P + K def right now.  I was thinking about ramping up the grow big, but I'm going to wait until I pick up the liquid kool bloom. Every plant is different, but most everything I've grown has loved the heavy feed with grow big.  I will give them plain water too now and then, and I do start the feedings off light when the soil is fresh and the plants are not well established.

Quote:


I have to disagree with you there.  I have used molasses alone, and then used Botanicare Sweet alone.  There was a definite change in flavor and bouquet when switched to Sweet.




To each their own, I've used all three and while I do believe they help increase aroma and flavor, I haven't noticed too much of a difference between them.  I'm not saying it doesn't work, just that are cheaper more accessible options out there :smile:


--------------------


MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.


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Offlinedutc2006
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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: coda]
    #353395 - 01/26/10 03:34 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

That is wild.  I do not doubt anything at all you say, it just shows how many other factors come into play.  I too use FFOF right out of the bag, no perlite amendments or anything, like a lot of people do.  There is another thing I do when feeding that might make a difference, but it would seem to make my plants less likely to burn.  When I first started growing, I was reading on the fox farm website and I found one little tidbit that said to never fertilize dry soil.  It said to always water with plain water first and then add your nute mix, to prevent the chances of burning.  I have been doing that ever since.  I never have problems burning with bloom ferts but I play it pretty cautious.  I just have a feeling I must be doing something different than you to not be able to give my plants that much GB, and frankly I'm jealous.:frown:  You probably have much better lighting than me in your veg area.  I have all CFLs, but about 40,000 lumens worth in about a 6 sq.ft area.  So it is decent light, but if you have an HID veg space that might explain the difference. 


Damn, I hate that you have tried Sweet and didn't like it enough to keep using it.  I will never go without it in my garden.  I went through a whole grow using it in veg and flower, but only 1tsp/gal, the lower end of what the bottle recommended.  I didn't really notice anything different on the end result.  I talked to my guy at the hydro store, he is one of the types that tests every product he sells, or tries to.  He is the one who told me to do 4 tsp/gal, and explained how the plant will uptake those elements most during the middle weeks of flower and accomplish what you want just in that time, and that it was a waste to use it any other time.  He was dead on, I was thrilled with the difference it made, especially taste-wise.  Sorry to the OP if we have derailed your thread, but this is some good productive fert talk.
:thumbup:


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: dutc2006]
    #353622 - 01/26/10 07:31 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I use two 2 ft T-5 lights for veg.  Nothing special there.  I've always fed my plants a lot of veg nutes, if they start showing signs of burning or over dose I'll just cut back to plain watering for a while until I see signs that they want food.  It's really more about paying attention to your plants and giving them the right environment then anything else.  Like I said, I may have been lucky and just ended up with plants who were heavy feeders. 

I did notice more burning using the flora nova grow then I did with my grow big.  But I use the FN in my hempys and the GB for my mom in soil, so the different growing methods can be to blame for that.

Regardless nutrient burn isn't too much of a big deal, it's an annoyance and it adds time to your grow cycle, but if you know what to look for it's just not that big of an issue.  Too much food?  Feed plain water and let them soak up the rest of the nutes.  Got really bad?  Heavy flush followed by a period of plain water until they bounce back.  Sure it may not always  be that simple, but again I'll say that paying attention to your plant rather then some silly chart will get you much farther in cultivation. 

Still I always advise people to feed LESS until they know the plant.  The amount of cases of over feeding to those of underfeeding is pretty big.  Most people give too much food and hose themselves.  The people who give their plants too little food have a much easier problem to fix because all the plant needs is, well, more food!  Just start slow, and when you know they're handling the current strength well, bump it up a notch or two and see how they take it.  I rarely exceed the max dosage that the bottle recommends, but if you're feeling adventurous you can go past it.  Just pay attention to your plant and what it's telling you and you'll have some happy plants. 

So, if your plants are happy at 1.5 tsp a gallon, then keep them there!  If all you're doing is vegging them there's no need to go overboard.  Just give them the micros and macro's they need, if your vegetation is a nice healthy green, your stems get nice and thick, and they're showing no signs of stress, don't fix what ain't broken! :smile:


--------------------


MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.


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OfflineDudeTron
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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: coda]
    #353623 - 01/26/10 07:40 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

That's great advice Coda...

For me, I'm having a problem starting low and aiming high with the nutes because I only have one plant, and it's in a good pot so it only needs water every 3 days or so. This means I only get to feed once a week and things are changing so fast even the notes I take aren't worth much until the next grow... Like right now, I want to give her some Tiger Bloom really bad cause I just bought some, but I'll have to wait till probably tomorrow because she's still plenty wet...

BTW did you guys ever mention anything about feeding less at every watering vs alternating feed/plain ?  oh yeah dutc did mention molasses on the plain days...

EDIT:  I have another question... I just went and picked up that ph^ and I overshot the mark a bit when trying to make a mix, then I used some PH down and did it again... I'm thinking about throwing this one out...
  This PH up/down solution is 0-0-9, and at 1/2 tsp/gal per point... is it a bad idea to be using up AND down, and then is the extra potassium going to be a problem?


Edited by DudeTron (01/26/10 10:12 PM)


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Offlinedutc2006
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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: DudeTron]
    #353728 - 01/26/10 10:20 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Right on coda.  I only said I wished my plants could take the nutes like that because I would take that as a cue I am growing a vigorous plant.  :smile:

Yea I think feeding less at every watering is going to balance out to  feeding more every other watering.  Just remember you want to flush every so often, I do once a month to be cautious, just to rid your soil of excess salts.  In flowering I alternate watering with my molasses/Sweet combo, then the next time I will feed.  I don't have a PPM meter, but I would imagine mixing all my nutes and molasses and sweet all together would result in a high PPM solution, so I avoid that.  Around the middle of flowering I give them a moderate flush.  1 gallon of water mixed with Clearex, just so that I can continue an aggressive fert regime without having to worry about accumulating too much toxic salts.  Just like coda said, don't follow a chart verbatim, use it as a guideline, and give your plants what they want.  It takes a while to dial in on each strains wants, but if you like it enough to keep it around, your second time growing it will prove to be better if you paid attention to how it reacted the first time.


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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: dutc2006]
    #353744 - 01/26/10 10:32 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Good deal man... Gotta say thanks again for stickin around and being a part of deciphering the nute game.

So you like the clearex stuff then?  Is it kinda a no-brainer like, "yeah dude the stuff works so use it," or is it debatable?  I guess the big bloom is supposed to help avoid salt build-up according to FF.  I mean, that's what it says on the bottle.  I guess that's why it's used throughout the grow?

  What do you think of my PH up, down, up, down issue?  I think the up is more potent or something...  :shrug:

:jointsmile:


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Offlinedutc2006
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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: DudeTron]
    #353995 - 01/27/10 03:49 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I cannot say for certain that the Clearex works because it is kinda hard to tell, but I understand the science behind it. 

I always use tap water, and yes I let it sit out for 24 hours before using it, to rid it of chlorine.  Chlorine is bad for organics in our FFOF, so it is good to let it evaporate. 

I'm sorry, what was the problem you were having with pH?


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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: dutc2006]
    #354306 - 01/27/10 10:44 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

My PH up and down are bottled locally and don't work quite according to the directions.  ie; 1/2tsp per gallon for an adjustment of 1 point doesn't work

I've missed my mark before and had to readjust oppositely, and then again even.

It also says they're 0-0-9.

Should I worry about the extra potassium when I have to keep adding buffers back and forth until I reach my desired PH? (6.5-7.0)


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: DudeTron]
    #354333 - 01/27/10 11:30 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think I've ever seen Ph up or down mixed with nutrients before.


--------------------


MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.


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InvisibleIcky
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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: DudeTron]
    #354396 - 01/28/10 01:27 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


My PH up and down are bottled locally and don't work quite according to the directions.




pH is not linear, only use the directions as a guideline.



The water you are using to feed your plants has more to do with how your pH up and down works than the place where they bottled it.

Quick Google search
http://waterworks4u.com/pH_Scale_N_Your_Body.php


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Offlinedutc2006
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Re: Nutrient and Feeding Advice [Re: coda]
    #354418 - 01/28/10 03:42 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

coda said:
I don't think I've ever seen Ph up or down mixed with nutrients before.




I'm confused...then how are you supposed to adjust your pH???  I mix my nutrient solution, test pH, adjust accordingly.  Am I missing something? 

DudeTron - I use the powder form of pH up and down, made by GH.  The UP comes in a blue powder, the DOWN is yellow.  I add 2 Tbsp of the powder to a old empty 2 liter coke bottle and fill with water, for both the pH up and down.  This way I have a liquid form of pH up and down to add to my nutrient solutions.  I never measure the amount that I am adding to my nute mixes.  I just check the mixes before hand and then add what I need accordingly.  After doing it a couple times you will get the feel for how much of each it takes to get your pH to the desired level.  I do it drop by drop, the even watering it down the way I do it makes drastic changes in the smallest amount.  I mix my plain water in 5 gallon buckets and my nute mixes in gallon jugs.  I don't mix large batches of nutes because they do not keep very long.  Bacteria and other growth may form in them unless you put an airstone in. 

I don't think you need to worry about the K in the pH up, if used in appropriate quantities it shouldn't be enough to effect anything.


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