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InvisibleDr. Penguin
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Diy Oxygenator: Explanation, Theory, & Discussion
    #544961 - 04/10/11 02:35 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Welcome to the Growery's official Oxygenator discussion thread. For those of you that don't know what it is, I'll start with an explanation.

An Oxygenator is a device that uses a catalytic reaction to break down H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) into water and pure oxygen.

2H2O2  ---Catalyst--->  2H2O + O2

There have been a few versions of the device marketed commercially for use with fish, the most popular of which is called the Oxydator. The device is sold under the name Dr. Söchting's Oxydator and is advertised as providing the maximum dissolved oxygen possible in a fish pond or aquarium. The device is patented, a copy of which can be found here and an updated version here.

Since the device uses pure oxygen to provide the DO (dissolved oxygen) to plants roots in a hydro system, we should be able to achieve much higher levels of DO than would be possible using air which is ~21% oxygen. As many here can attest, the more DO to the roots, the faster the plants grow. That alone would be a great achievement, but couple it with the increased stealth and security of no more loud bubblers/airpumps, and protection in the case of power outages (always a fear with hydro), we may really be on to something. 

While I was researching this idea I stumbled across a page detailing an easy to build replica of the device shown here.



Wow, all we need to build it is a pressure tight bottle (think soda bottle), a lead weight, an air stone (the smaller the pore size the better), tubing, and some H2O2. How easy!

So now we know what it does and how to build a simple version to test it. The only things left to do are to try to refine our design, test it (preferably with a DO meter), and build a large scale proof of concept system. We have a lot of brilliant people on this forum and together, I think we can revolutionize the way we provide oxygen to the roots of our plants!

The parts of the design that I really think could use improvement are the longevity of the H2O2, improve catalyst performance/safety, and increase the amount of oxygen that actually dissolves so none is wasted.

The longevity issue is addressed well in the DIY page I linked to above, namely using two large bottles set up about a week apart so that as one slows down in production, the other is running full steam. We can also increase longevity by diluting the H2O2 which slows the reaction. Using one liter sized jugs @3% H2O2 we should be able to get up to a month worth of O2 from each jug, not to bad considering how cheap 20% H2O2 is from a pool shop.

Catalyst performance is another big issue. The article I linked to uses lead as the catalyst which could be toxic if it ever found its way into the reservoir (very unlikely but not inconceivable). Lead also has the unfortunate property of being converted into lead oxide(II) when exposed to the high heat produced when H2O2 concentration is >~8%.

H2O2 + PB --> PbO + H2O

This reaction causes a breakdown of the catalyst and reduces the oxygen released. A much better catalyst would be platinum, copper, peroxidase (an enzyme found in potato and yeast + others), activated carbon and manganese dioxide as used by Dr. Söchting, or silver as is used in the updated patent above.

The last thing that I believe can be refined is the amount of oxygen that is actually dissolved. If the bubbles make it to the surface of the res, they pop and go out into the atmosphere thus being wasted. If we trap all the bubbles under the surface, we are using our oxygen much more efficiently. Thankfully our friends in the planted aquarium field have already solved this one for us. By using a device called a CO2 reactor (in our case O2 reactor) we can use 100% of the O2 produced. Here is a picture of a simple CO2 reactor:



If anyone here has any thoughts, ideas, or more importantly a DO meter, feel free to post it up. With some testing and experimentation we should have an awesome new way to give our plants a huge growth boost. Thanks guys!


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Offlinechancent
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Re: Diy Oxygenator: Explanation, Theory, & Discussion [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #545041 - 04/10/11 05:55 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

yea lead and or most heavy metals isnt a good way to go because (thank god for a hippie chem teacher in highschool :grin:) if any of the oxide gets out it will most def. kill the plants..... is it possible to use just the strait up electrode method with water with an exhaust or tank for excess H? and im just throwing ideas out there :grin:


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Re: Diy Oxygenator: Explanation, Theory, & Discussion [Re: chancent]
    #545050 - 04/10/11 06:28 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

got a better idea, how about making an apparatus similar to that of the oxygen generators used in medicine. the ones that take atmospheric air, pressurizing it through aluminum silicate therefore being cleansed of hydrogen and producing 90-98% pure oxygen.


by the way i love that this has been brought up on here cause ive been thinking about ways to go about it :smile: highfive


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InvisibleDr. Penguin
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Re: Diy Oxygenator: Explanation, Theory, & Discussion [Re: chancent]
    #545077 - 04/10/11 08:35 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

The reason most people don't want to generate oxygen with an electrode is like you said, hydrogen. Being extremely flammable I don't want that anywhere near my grow room.

Oxygen generation with hydrogen peroxide leaves water as the byproduct, much more benign. As for the catalyst getting into the res, it is very unlikely. The only way the metal could get into the res is if liquid managed to get in your bubbler tube, ie: the bottle was above the res and managed to tip over.

That in itself is improbable but to be extra sure, just add another bottle with an input tube and an output tube in the cap so if liquid did get into the line it would have to fill the second bottle before it got to the res.


--------------------
* My Cab
* How to Build a Grow Tent
* Fan Speed Control 101
* Easy Butane Extraction

Not responsible for advice not taken.


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OfflineMushrooMan420
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Re: Diy Oxygenator: Explanation, Theory, & Discussion [Re: Dr. Penguin]
    #545895 - 04/13/11 03:24 AM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Yea. you would make your grow room into a hydrogen bomb with an electrode extraction. haha



Interesting concept DR. P thanks for sharing.


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Offlinechancent
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Re: Diy Oxygenator: Explanation, Theory, & Discussion [Re: MushrooMan420]
    #546299 - 04/14/11 08:24 AM (5 years, 7 months ago)

thats why i stated in my later comment about the apparatus used to help people with respiratory my just filtering out the hydrogen but not completely lol. i think it would be better just to concentrate air rather than go through the trouble of having to actually chemically react things to retrieve the oxygen when you could just plug this one in and not worry about it, and yea who has ever heard of a grow room exploding lol that would be everywhere, the news would eat that one up :rolleyes: lol dont need that.


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Offlinechancent
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Re: Diy Oxygenator: Explanation, Theory, & Discussion [Re: chancent]
    #546300 - 04/14/11 08:25 AM (5 years, 7 months ago)

respiratory needs*** lol just woke up


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OfflineMushrooMan420
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Re: Diy Oxygenator: Explanation, Theory, & Discussion [Re: chancent]
    #546897 - 04/16/11 02:57 AM (5 years, 7 months ago)

If it did happen it would probably make the DEA and all those fuckers relate weed growing to meth production....which wouldn't be right.


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