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Offlinebobby-j
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90w ufo led vs. 150w hpw?
    #478855 - 09/18/10 12:46 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

what would be better for a 32"x20" a 90w ufo or a 150w hps to get a lot of bud, probably with an autoflower plant.


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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hpw? [Re: bobby-j]
    #478899 - 09/18/10 03:29 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I'd go with the HPS.


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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hpw? [Re: maryanne3087]
    #478900 - 09/18/10 03:30 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

maryanne3087 said:
I'd go with the HPS.




Everytime


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InvisibleLaysthepipe
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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hpw? [Re: T-Rex]
    #478927 - 09/18/10 08:57 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

.
Quote:

T-Rex said:
Quote:

maryanne3087 said:
I'd go with the HPS.




Everytime





I'd say not true.

You are comparing a 150 HPS to a 90 UFO. How much do you think a small 150 really yields?

The main argument with hps vs LED is mostly about penetration.

Now take an sog style, or keep plants smaller then penetration is no longer an issue.


Now, for the op I would ask, is ventilation/heat going to be a problem.. if you are going to run the hps are you also going to invest in proper ventilation?

If not this will happen.
Quote:

Coaster said:
Quote:

Coaster said:









Do you plan on growing taller plants (2.5ft+, probably not since this is auto flower)?

I've seen some really good results on leds with autos, and on smaller plants.

Here is an example on a single 90 watt led unit (wasn't ufo but same watts) with no added light yielding 108 grams (over 1 gram per watt) on some smaller plants. These plants were searched up in seconds just to prove a point, there is plenty of grows if you google and look past the first time growers, the grows without nutes, bad nutes, or the grows that are larger plants that yield small due to penetration and didn't use enough leds for that kind of grow anyways (I'd add side lighting leds for larger plants).
Quote:








I've seen quite a few led grows where they got .7 grams to 1+ gram per watt, I've seen .7 gram per watt come off of a 3-4 foot plant under leds too, no supplement light, or extra light to enhance the sides of the plants.

LED's from what I have seen from extensively looking into them, the smaller the plants to eliminate penetration issues, the better they yield.

Therefore I see LED's perfect for stealth and sea of green type or similar setups.


I've seen some pretty good results with autoflower and LED's.

In an sog type setup, keeping plants about 1ft tall max, I would put money watt for watt the LED's being a quality led light will perform just as good as an hps, if not better, without the heat, and cost less on the electric bill.

You say hps don't run hot? Run the hps for five minutes then try to grab it and slightly squeeze with your full hand for two minutes, probably cannot even do it for thirty seconds without burning the shit out of your hand. You can hold an led by the cover of the lights all day.

When I see 90 watt ufo or 400 watt hps? I would say 400 watt hps if you can support the heat (just look at imagining grams per watt, no shit hps).

When i see 90 watt ufo or 150 watt hps, I would probably say 90 watt ufo either way.

When he says 90 watts or 150 watts, I get the impression of a smaller grow. Why pay more electricity, and fight the heat for a small grow where your plants are going to stay smaller by design(autos)? Plus you will be preventing any possible heat issues that may arise.

When it's all said and done, the 180 watt ufo is not much more pricewise than a 90 watt ufo. If you were to ask that 180 watt ufo or a 150 watt hps, that 180 watt ufo all the way, no doubt about it. Especially since you are running autoflowers.

If he can manage 1gram a watt on a 90 watt ufo, he gets 90 grams, 1 gram a watt on the hps 150 grams, and 1 gram a watt on the 180, 180 grams.

With the price for ventilation and the 150 watt hps, he could probably afford a 180 watt ufo, ans skip the heat issues and have to pay less money on the electric bill.

In a few months hopefully someone will post pics of some plants kept short in a sog style type grow, grown properly under a 180 watt ufo or two of them. And then we can see what they can really do when you expose their weakness (penetration) and use that to your advantage (sog).

You can say, hps put off more lumens though.
Last time I checked plants do not really use lumens, lumens is only a measurement of light seen by the human eye, not the amount of usable light put off that plants actually use.

I'm pretty sure I have read watt for watt, leds put off a lot more usable light than hps does.



So, what kind of grow op are you trying to do op?
If you run hps are you going to ventilate?
Is heat going to be an issue?
How much money are you looking to spend on lights and cooling equipment?
Large or small plants?


You say you want to yield a lot of bud, you might not want to use autos since they aren't really known for the large yields or potency.

When you ask this question hps is going to be the automatic answer from most growers because most everyone looks at a 90 watt ufo and trys to compare it to a 400 watt hps that can penetrate well which is just wrong. You should be comparing that to a 90 watt hps.


For an auto i would much rather run a LED light for 18+ hours a day than a hot HID lamp, for a small scale grow.


--------------------
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“If you want to find out who your real friends are, sink the ship. The first ones to jump aren’t your friends.” — Marilyn Manson

This isn't the correct place to confront me on anything.

Forum full of dead stars, and a necro I called Coma White


Edited by Laysthepipe (09/18/10 09:26 AM)


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Offlinedmtcorey
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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hpw? [Re: Laysthepipe]
    #478991 - 09/18/10 12:36 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

i was reading up on these led lights and the research looks interesting but the only thing is there pretty dam expensive ! like you say to, you may be able to save on hydro ,! but these are probly not the best for larger gardens,shit in a few years these lights will probly be haft the price,and i would like to see them prove them selves before i would pay out that kind of money!


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InvisibleLaysthepipe
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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hpw? [Re: dmtcorey]
    #478996 - 09/18/10 12:40 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dmtcorey said:
i was reading up on these led lights and the research looks interesting but the only thing is there pretty dam expensive ! like you say to, you may be able to save on hydro ,! but these are probly not the best for larger gardens,shit in a few years these lights will probly be haft the price,and i would like to see them prove them selves before i would pay out that kind of money!





Well you can get ufo 90 watt units for 140 and 180 units (2w bulbs) for about 220 those both include shipping. 240 watt (3w bulbs) for 280 little over a dollar per watt.

The prices really aren't that bad imo. Run through a few electric bills and you've probably already evened out.

Not having to worry about infrared at all is ftw in my opinion.


--------------------
:advisory:

“If you want to find out who your real friends are, sink the ship. The first ones to jump aren’t your friends.” — Marilyn Manson

This isn't the correct place to confront me on anything.

Forum full of dead stars, and a necro I called Coma White


Edited by Laysthepipe (09/18/10 12:52 PM)


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Offlinedmtcorey
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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hpw? [Re: Laysthepipe]
    #479137 - 09/18/10 04:53 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

do you have much experience with these lights? and where did you see them for the price your talking about because in hightimes they start at $499 up to $1399 ! and what NM spectrum are the ones you talking about ?


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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hpw? [Re: dmtcorey]
    #479138 - 09/18/10 04:57 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Hightimes has legal smoking blends for sale. Do you really think you should quote anything from that magazine?

On ICMag there's a LED unit distributor with competitive prices. I think the units are called penetrators.


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InvisibleLaysthepipe
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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hpw? [Re: dmtcorey]
    #479189 - 09/18/10 06:22 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dmtcorey said:
do you have much experience with these lights? and where did you see them for the price your talking about because in hightimes they start at $499 up to $1399 ! and what NM spectrum are the ones you talking about ?




I have only used these lights for starting naga jolokia pepper seedlings from a couple different sources before going outside.

I have looked at most of the led grows on the net though, analyzing them, digging for what they can really do.

Here's some of the lights I am talking about, cree led bulbs, supposed to be high quality bulbs.

http://shop.ebay.com/gotham_products/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

The seller of the quad band I have sold out and does not have them anymore.


Just noticed, this guy has a 600 watter for 630 shipped, still a little over 1 dollar per watt.
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-600w-Lighthouse-Blackstar-LED-Grow-light-2w-LEDs-/280560637894?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4152b797c6



--------------------
:advisory:

“If you want to find out who your real friends are, sink the ship. The first ones to jump aren’t your friends.” — Marilyn Manson

This isn't the correct place to confront me on anything.

Forum full of dead stars, and a necro I called Coma White


Edited by Laysthepipe (09/18/10 07:53 PM)


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Offlinekickin-two-hundo
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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hpw? [Re: Laysthepipe]
    #479201 - 09/18/10 06:35 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


If not this will happen.
Quote:

Coaster said:
Quote:

Coaster said:










OH MY FUCKIN GOD WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT ATROCITY? AHHH MONSTER!! lol dam i've never seen a plant that murked good lord. bleh just puked a little bit. That thing belongs about another 3 feet back, IN THE TOILET! :lol:

Quote:








I've seen quite a few led grows where they got .7 grams to 1+ gram per watt, I've seen .7 gram per watt come off of a 3-4 foot plant under leds too, no supplement light, or extra light to enhance the sides of the plants.





Wow that is very impressive, the final bud looked a little beaser/swagish, but that plant looked damn good! I heard from a guy i kno- who has grown with leds himself, and many differen kinds of led panels at that- that they are pieces of shit, huge waste of money, and that he will never use them again, but this right here turns my head on the topic of leds, i have never seen budding plants under them, from he told me, you simply cannot bud under leds and get anything decent, he siad he would only get popcorn nugs, and they werent that great, and then he went and bought HPS lights for when they were flowering. But those buds look good thO! props to tha grower.

And that last picture is SICK how they got all the different lightings and shit.


--------------------
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anything and everything i post on here is completely fictional and come straight from the deepest depths of the black hole which is my mind.


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InvisibleLaysthepipe
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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hpw? [Re: kickin-two-hundo]
    #479209 - 09/18/10 06:41 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kickin-two-hundo said:
Quote:


If not this will happen.
Quote:

Coaster said:
Quote:

Coaster said:










OH MY FUCKIN GOD WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT ATROCITY? AHHH MONSTER!! lol dam i've never seen a plant that murked good lord. bleh just puked a little bit. That thing belongs about another 3 feet back, IN THE TOILET! :lol:

Quote:








I've seen quite a few led grows where they got .7 grams to 1+ gram per watt, I've seen .7 gram per watt come off of a 3-4 foot plant under leds too, no supplement light, or extra light to enhance the sides of the plants.





Wow that is very impressive, the final bud looked a little beaser/swagish, but that plant looked damn good! I heard from a guy i kno- who has grown with leds himself, and many differen kinds of led panels at that- that they are pieces of shit, huge waste of money, and that he will never use them again, but this right here turns my head on the topic of leds, i have never seen budding plants under them, from he told me, you simply cannot bud under leds and get anything decent, he siad he would only get popcorn nugs, and they werent that great, and then he went and bought HPS lights for when they were flowering. But those buds look good thO! props to tha grower.

And that last picture is SICK how they got all the different lightings and shit.





There's plenty of reasons why his buds could have came out shitty.

Under 1 watt led bulbs are incompetent.

Nutrients, stress, ph, plenty of reasons. This is why i dig through many led grows to try to find someone that knows what they are doing, then look through those to try to find the people that grow the smaller plants to counter the penetration issues.

The pic there is kinda far away, you cannot say it looks bad because it isn't a macro of the trichomes.

I went back to the page and got a closer up shot, this is the closest to a bud he has on there, still isn't a macro shot. This looks like one of his smaller colas.


I went back and looked at the unit this guy used and his bulbs are 1watt per bulb. You can find the grow just by google searching 90 watt led growlog and its one of the first.


Just by saying led panels makes me think your friend bought the shitty ones.


--------------------
:advisory:

“If you want to find out who your real friends are, sink the ship. The first ones to jump aren’t your friends.” — Marilyn Manson

This isn't the correct place to confront me on anything.

Forum full of dead stars, and a necro I called Coma White


Edited by Laysthepipe (09/18/10 07:51 PM)


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Offlinetreefer
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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hpw? [Re: Laysthepipe]
    #479393 - 09/19/10 02:16 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

go with the hps


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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hpw? [Re: maryanne3087]
    #479524 - 09/19/10 01:13 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

maryanne3087 said:
Hightimes has legal smoking blends for sale. Do you really think you should quote anything from that magazine?

On ICMag there's a LED unit distributor with competitive prices. I think the units are called penetrators.



actually hightimes has not had that crap for years


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Offlinebobby-j
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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hps? [Re: treefer]
    #479537 - 09/19/10 01:39 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

i'm definately gonna ventilate either way for fresh air, and i plan on growing in rubbermaid totes stacked together with a hole in the top of the bottom ones and a hole in the bottom of the top ones. I want to use autos because of their short height and i dont have to have to keep a second rubbermaid for a mother. I want to use a whole bunch of 16oz cups crammed in as close as possible for a 6" sea of green. So no real need for too much penetration. So ufo's and hps both get about the same gram per watt, what about something like this http://growledhydro.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=5&zenid=fs807pncfmgk0nqk4i219hl8m2its got 12 wavelengths I think the guy designed them specifically for pot, and here the penetraters are really good too. heres the strain I'm leaning towards right now http://www.autoflowering-seeds.co.uk/lowryder-purple-jem-autoflowering-seeds-2406 It's pretty new and has been out of stock for about a month.


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InvisibleLaysthepipe
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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hps? [Re: bobby-j]
    #479548 - 09/19/10 02:02 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

One of the Spectras is the unit the guy used in the grow I linked.
3 watt leds on that one.

Looks like a good light to me.

Quote:

I want to use a whole bunch of 16oz cups crammed in as close as possible for a 6" sea of green.




You may have to use something to control your autoflowers height.

You plan on planting the seeds in the cups and growing a lot of seedlings out similar to an sog?

I could see an sog kinda working with autos, but by planting seeds instead of adding clones at different times, only thing is they will get bigger than what you want them I am pretty sure.

And you should make your own seeds with the first harvest so you don't have to keep buying seeds, that would be really expensive.

The main upside on the autos is you will only need one tub.



--------------

Honestly man I would do this if I were you.

First off ditch the autoflower idea they are less potent, you always have to start from seed, and probably wont yield as good as clones.

Make two of these totes you are talking about.

Buy a normal strain that fits you and says works well for sog (belladonna is supposed to work well in sog, the description says so and it is currently my favorite strain, and it's not that expensive of a strain either :wink:).

In one of your totes use a few of the cfls in there to veg your mothers and LST them.

In that same tote take clones into the cups, and then transfer them into your flowering tote under the led light after they are rooted, and you could add a couple cfls in there too to for supplement lights.

This would be an easier way for you to get the perpetual harvest, and better buds.


I do not think I would put a hps into a plastic tote, sounds like a fire waiting to happen to me. Different growers have different needs, and I would say an led is better for you, in this kind of grow.


Edited by Laysthepipe (09/19/10 02:57 PM)


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OfflineTank333
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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hps? [Re: Laysthepipe]
    #479774 - 09/19/10 11:04 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Laysthepipe said:
I do not think I would put a hps into a plastic tote, sounds like a fire waiting to happen to me. Different growers have different needs, and I would say an led is better for you, in this kind of grow.




I agree. I would recommend that if you go with an HPS, you should ditch the tote idea and build your own box out of 2x2's and plywood. It'll be much safer, and probably sturdier, too. You can get the supplies for one pretty cheap at a hardware store such as Lowes or Home DePot.

However, if whether you do the LED's or the HPS, I really hope you make a grow log for it. I'm really interested to see how well this works out for you.


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Offlinebobby-j
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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hps? [Re: Tank333]
    #479860 - 09/20/10 01:22 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

how much light would 1 or 2 mothers need, probably a mostly indica strain. Maybe a 50w metal halide? I dont think a 50w would make all that much heat. Or maybe 1 of those little 45w led spotlights. I can get a 50w metal halide ballast kit, bulb, and a clamp on socket, for about 50 bucks, and a duct fan for about 30-50. Should I use a carbon filter with mothers or are they odorless.


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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hps? [Re: bobby-j]
    #479863 - 09/20/10 03:27 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I know 100 watt HPS run a lot hotter than I imagined. I imagine that 50 watt to get decently hot.

I don't think you'd put 50 bucks into cfls, and you only need 2 or 3 per mother, I've done forgot much info on cfls that I've read in the past.

I wouldn't use a single led spotlight for them, I hear those aren't that great, and I think they have the bulbs that are smaller than 1 watt in them.

CFLs will veg fine.


--------------------
:advisory:

“If you want to find out who your real friends are, sink the ship. The first ones to jump aren’t your friends.” — Marilyn Manson

This isn't the correct place to confront me on anything.

Forum full of dead stars, and a necro I called Coma White


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OfflineTank333
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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hps? [Re: bobby-j]
    #479864 - 09/20/10 04:19 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bobby-j said:
how much light would 1 or 2 mothers need, probably a mostly indica strain?




I have four CFL bulbs on the 8 plants we have in veg right now (NOT enough, but no room to put more in, and 3 of them are only recent clones in rockwool). I would say that for two mothers I would want two of the 55 watt (200 w. equiv) bulbs on those girls, or three-if I had the space for it. Those bulbs are pretty darn cheap, and they don't put off much heat at all.

Quote:

bobby-j said: Should I use a carbon filter with mothers or are they odorless.




I would say no, unless you're extremely paranoid or you think someone who would not be okay with it might smell it if they're in the same room. Even if you are, there's a tek here for a DYI carbon scrubber that looks pretty simple and cheap. I'm installing a new ventilation system in our shed, and I'll be making one, if you want to know how it goes...


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Invisiblemaryanne3087
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Re: 90w ufo led vs. 150w hps? [Re: Tank333]
    #479886 - 09/20/10 11:13 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I'm sorry but, you either don't grow or you grow some shitty strains. My veg room could be smelled from across the street if I didn't have odor control I use a combination of Ozone and Carbon scrubbers to remove the smell. I don't either alone is enough for certainty. I also use larger than recommended filters and ozone generators.


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