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OfflineTank333
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Dying leaves
    #473188 - 09/06/10 07:00 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Please help. I cant seem to figure out what is causing my plants to wilt and burn. I've flushed the plant and plan to do so again tonight, thinking maybe toxic salt build up, but id really like a second or third opinion if possible
thanks!



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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Dying leaves [Re: Tank333]
    #473486 - 09/07/10 12:03 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Your pics are way too small to see anything in detail.  Are you watering your plants enough? 
What are you feeding them, in what concentration and what schedule?


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OfflineTank333
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Re: Dying leaves [Re: geokills]
    #473602 - 09/07/10 04:33 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry, the only camera I had was a cell phone.

They've been fed Flora-bloom, which is actually a hydro fert. These plants were in a hydroponic system until about a month and a half ago. The plants were pulled from the hydro and put into soil because of a problem they were having with too much humidity and fungus growing on the roots. They were actually washed off in the sink and then put into pots with miracle-gro soil.

I have actually only been working with these plants for the past two weeks or so, and since this plant's the closest to harvest, it's been flushed once and watered daily with a 1/4 to 1/3 gallon of r/o water, but hasn't been given ferts in about a week.

Before we started, I think they were fed daily with the flor-bloom and micro with 3 tsp and 2 tsp per gallon respectively(the bloom is 0-5-4 and the micro is 5-0-1... Since then, we've used the fert solution every three days or so, since we haven't been able to get the proper ferts yet.

I know next to nothing about growing, and the guy I'm helping with this knows less than I do, so if we're doing something wrong, please let me know.

I do know the soil's wrong, and so we got them some Fox Farms to use. I'm pretty sure that we need to be using soil ferts instead of hydro ferts, but I can't afford to get them other stuff yet.


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Dying leaves [Re: Tank333]
    #473614 - 09/07/10 04:47 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

So long as you are using your fert in the appropriate concentration for your application, a hydro fert will work fine for soil application.  Going the other way (soil fert in a hydro system) is not advised because some soil ferts aren't immediately available to the plants until they are broken down by organisms in the soil, and sometimes contain larger particulate matter that can clog hydro systems.

I haven't used Flora-bloom and don't have time to check what the appropriate doses for soil container watering would be... but it is possible that you under or over fed the plant, depending on how many nutrients were packed into your miracle-gro soil to begin with.  Of course, since you are so close to harvest and have already flushed, I'd recommend just proceeding with the harvest and make sure to be a little more consistent on the next go round.


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OfflineTank333
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Re: Dying leaves [Re: geokills]
    #473619 - 09/07/10 05:02 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

well, as far as I can tell, the miracle-gro is .21-.07-.14. Honestly, I'm a bit lost when it comes to nutrient values and what's supposed to be where... Would you be able to point me in the direction of somewhere I could research this? I haven't been able to find much in the way of instructional information on this subject.


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Dying leaves [Re: Tank333]
    #473731 - 09/07/10 08:19 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

You aren't likely to find a hard fast rule when it comes to nutrients, as different plants will respond to different nutrient levels... differently.

As a general rule, as soon as my plants have rooted, I place them into fortified soil (such as Fox Farm's Ocean Forest) so that I will not need to feed them for the first two to three weeks of growth.  As soon as I notice any signs of nutrient deficiency (slowed growth and/or large leaves that aren't yet yellow but are turning that way and just beginning to lose their deep green color) I will supplement my watering schedule with a mild nutrient solution.

Read the directions for your nutrients so that you understand the recommended frequency and strength for your specific brand.  Dry chemical salt fertilizers are pretty harsh and are prone to burning plants or causing toxic salt buildup in your soil if you are not careful.  With a chemical salt fertilizer, I would start with 1/4 to 1/2 strength and only feed every 1 to 2 weeks.  If you're using a liquid fertilizer (especially an organic liquid fertilizer), I would start with 1/2 strength added to every other watering session, working up to full strength or until I noticed signs of burn on my plants (such as burnt leaf tips, necrotic tissue, curling, crispy leaves, etc).

Ultimately, the more time you spend working with plants, the better you will be at reading any given plant's individual needs.  Not all plants are equal and their needs will vary.  You'll need to get in sync with your plant and should err on the side of caution by starting with mild nutrient solutions and slowly working your way up to stronger solutions.  Always make sure to read the recommendations for the individual product you are using, as they are all a little different.

The three numbers you see on a fertilizer container indicates the ratio of Nitrogen (N) - Phosphorous (P) - Potassium (K).  The basic rule of feeding is that a cannabis plant in its vegetative phase (before it starts producing bud flowers), should receive a nutrient solution that has a higher Nitrogen (N) component than either phosphorous or potassium.  Once the plant enters its flowering phase, you'll want to supply a nutrient solution with a higher Phosphorous (P) component.  In addition to these macronutrients, there are several micronutrients that are also important to your plant's health.  For this reason, you'll probably want to start with an "all in one" nutrient for your first few grows - just ask your local garden or hydro store clerk and they should be able to point you in the right direction.

In the end, experience will be your best teacher! :ganja:


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OfflineTank333
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Re: Dying leaves [Re: geokills]
    #473768 - 09/07/10 10:10 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the info, it really helps! You really compressed it down pretty well. Like I said, I've only been working with these for a couple weeks, and they're the first ones I've ever gotten to work on, so I'm starting from ground zero.

I'm really excited to see how they all turn out. We've got a total of 14 plants, 7 in veg and 7 in flower. Unfortunately, only the newest of the clones in 1 gal pots is fully in the FFOF, but they'll all be going into that soil from now on. The rest are still in the miracle-gro soil, but I think a once a week flush on those should be good,
right?

The two biggest things I wish I could change about the set-up is they're ALL under 50 and 150 watt CFL's... I don't have the money to get hps/mh lights for both rooms right now, and neither does he. I've been wondering how far away from the plants those should be, as well... Right now, they're all at about chin lvl, and about a foot to 2 feet above the tops of the plants.

Also, the flower room doesn't really have the airflow that it should have, either. The lights are on during the night to keep the temp down, but on bad days it sometimes gets as hot as 95 in there during the late evening when it's still hot and the lights are just turned on. There's two box fans inside, and an oscillating fan to keep air at least moving around, but I have no way to truly vent the place, and I'm having a hard time convincing the owner of the place to let me put a vent hole in the wall or ceiling...


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Dying leaves [Re: Tank333]
    #474097 - 09/08/10 02:21 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The rest are still in the miracle-gro soil, but I think a once a week flush on those should be good, right?




Flushing is when you pass large amounts of pH balanced clean water through your growing medium (in this case, soil).  It should only be done if you suspect you have incurred toxic salt buildup, over-fertilized, or 7 - 10 days prior to harvest in efforts to remove excess nutrients and allow the plant to metabolize more of the latent nutrients in its body, so that the end product will taste and smoke better.  In other words, you should not be flushing weekly just for the hell of flushing weekly!

If you suspect that the plants in your miracle-gro soil have been overfed, flush the containers only one time, with two to three times the total volume of your container's worth of water.  This will effectively wash the soil for you.  Let that dry for a day or three, and then resume feeding with a light nutrient solution according to the directions for the specific nutrients you are using.

On the lights, you want them to be as close to your plants as is feasible without burning them.  This could mean anywhere from 6 - 18 inches generally speaking.


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OfflineTank333
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Re: Dying leaves [Re: geokills]
    #474137 - 09/08/10 04:38 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Awesome, Geo, thanks!


We decided that the plants in the flowering room were in too small of pots, to we put the into 3gallon pots instead of the 1 gal ones they were in. Most of the the plants in the bud room are anywhere from 18-24 inches tall, so we're hoping the increase in room will help them to grow better.

I would prefer to do the switching of pots in the veg room, so they have more time to utilize the room to grow but the veg room is pretty small, and I don't think it can handle the extra space.


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OfflineTank333
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Re: Dying leaves [Re: Tank333]
    #474195 - 09/08/10 07:43 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

And as far as flushing goes, I had understood that it should be 4 to 5 times the size of the pot. So we have only flushed all the ones in the veg room once so far. We started using 5 gallons of r/o water (1 gal. pots), and after the second or third, we went down to 4 gallons, and we did the last two last night. None of them had ever been flushed before, and we figured the nitrogen rich miracle gro soil wasn't doing the flowering stage too much good... it'll take a lot more to flush these new 3 gallon pots though, so I think flushing only when necessary from now on is good...

Would it be advisable to flush the plants in the veg room before moving them into the flowering stage and increasing the pot size?


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Dying leaves [Re: Tank333]
    #474243 - 09/08/10 09:35 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Tank333 said:

Would it be advisable to flush the plants in the veg room before moving them into the flowering stage and increasing the pot size?




In a word, No!

Flushing is really only advised prior to harvest.  If you have to flush at any other time, it's because things have gone horribly wrong.  Do not feel like you should deprive a plant of nitrogen during its flowering cycle.  You can pare back on nitrogen as the plant matures, but there is no reason to cut it out entirely; perhaps during the last 2 weeks before harvest if you really want to, but I tend to feed it at least a little bit of nitrogen all the way up to the pre-harvest flush.


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Offlinemuse42
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Re: Dying leaves [Re: geokills]
    #476291 - 09/12/10 08:45 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

did i just read that you have transplanted twice during flowering?
into miricle grow?


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