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Offlineshakalaka
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Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain?
    #332108 - 12/16/09 02:29 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Just wanted to be able to grow out some seeds here and there.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: shakalaka]
    #332111 - 12/16/09 02:35 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

All of Serious Seeds are stable.

AK-47 is not an in bred line though.. but it's stable.


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Offlineshakalaka
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: captain.koons]
    #332113 - 12/16/09 02:37 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Heeeey captain...so would it be fine to use then?


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: shakalaka]
    #332114 - 12/16/09 02:40 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know what your question is.

I assume you mean to ask if the seeds product uniform plants. For the most part the plants are very uniform in growth.

A friend of mine grew out 3 packs of Chronic and Bubblegum (3 packs of each) for the last outdoor season in January of last year and they all basically looked the same. (As in the chronic's looked like chronic's and the bubblegum's like bubblegum's.)


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Offlineshakalaka
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: captain.koons]
    #332115 - 12/16/09 02:42 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

well i was wondering whether it would be a good strain to grow some seed with. So just hand pollinate a few branches with pollen from an ak47 male kept seperate.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: shakalaka]
    #332119 - 12/16/09 03:00 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

It's an easy as hella strain to grow.

I don't know about how F2's grow but I assume theyre still fairly uniform. IMO making clones is far more practical than seed saving. If you plan to seed save just save the pollen and don't keep a male around unless you really think it's a stellar male. Keeping a male around can prove troublesome.


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Offlineshakalaka
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: captain.koons]
    #332153 - 12/16/09 07:23 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

ya i will grow mothers out...but also keep a nice male around in another area for a bit of pollen....mothers will only last so long...and i dont wanna keep buying new seeds...its hard to get into the country and its expensive as hell.


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Offlineshakalaka
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: shakalaka]
    #332154 - 12/16/09 07:26 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

i was thinkin of growin a male out in another area...then using cotton buds or paint brushes to take some of the pollen off it and store it in a freezer till i want to pollinate certain buds when i'm wanting seeds.


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Offlinejoshisstoned
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: shakalaka]
    #332180 - 12/16/09 11:41 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah dude, Soma has a good technique for procuring pollen sacks from female plants by simply letting a plant go longer (like a month-month1/2). If you collect the pollen in a film cannister you could paint buds in your room with this pollen. this is how he achieves female seeds organically without chemicals and such. I assume you could also save the mature banana looking pollen sacks in said film cannister and paint the lower buds also. I think the feminized seed thing would be cool though. I want to try it and see if it works.


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Offlinejoshisstoned
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: joshisstoned]
    #332181 - 12/16/09 11:42 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

A male's bannana looking pollen sack could be used in said cannister is what i meant to say at the end!


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: joshisstoned]
    #332295 - 12/16/09 03:16 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

joshisstoned said:
Yeah dude, Soma has a good technique for procuring pollen sacks from female plants by simply letting a plant go longer (like a month-month1/2).




Is that accurate?  Not soma using the tek but the tek itself.


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Offlinejoshisstoned
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #332353 - 12/16/09 04:49 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

It most certainly is. some strains do it better than others but thats how he gets female seeds. as long as you use the pollen from a clone on the same clone line. So if you have a room full of clones from the same mother then a bananna looking pollen cluster's dust from any plant in the room can be used on any plant and get female seeds as long as it's the same genetic makeup i.e a clone of the same mother.

I saw this tek in high times a few years back. it was called somas organic feminized seeds or something like it. It caught my eye because the pictur on the page was a red somango with a big juicy seed portuding from it and it caught my eye!


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Offlinejoshisstoned
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: joshisstoned]
    #332354 - 12/16/09 04:51 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

never done it personally... yet!


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Offlinejoshisstoned
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: joshisstoned]
    #332355 - 12/16/09 04:53 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Age Feminization Technique (AFT) or Rodelzation

Soma, the famous marijuana cultivator and breeder (he developed the now legendary NYC diesel strain) recommened the following organic method for making your own Feminized Seeds. It does not require any stressing of the plant or addition of sketchy chemical additives like gibberilic acid. It is sometimes called Rodelization, not for the subspecies known as Ruderalis but after a friend that helped him develop the technique. Soma sets forth this and many of his methods and philosophies in the short grow guide “Organic Marijuana Growing Soma Style”.
Marijuana is nothing if not a survivor. The best survival strategy Marijuana employs is getting humans to cultivate it for its many medical commercial and recreational uses. But this clever plant has more than humans in its arsenal of survival tools. Some lament marijuana’s tendency to hermaphrodization. However this ability is a genetic survival tools par excellence. Consider a lone female marijuana plant that has some how made it to flower. Without any males she would be deprived of the chance to procreate. But marijuana like some other plants and even some vertebrate animals has the ability to produce viable male reproductive structures. Previously unfertilized females will sometimes develop male “bananas” full of pollen at the end of the reproductive cycle. This creates an opportunity to deliver her genetic contribution to the next generation. A few seeds may develop after the males bananas shed their pollen onto the female buds. These very seeds have the potential to allow females to continue in the absence of males. This is evolutionary slightly disadvantageous because it does not allow for the diversity of a healthy gene pool. But it is much more advantageous then not surviving at all! The implications for humanity are staggering and I shall leave that to the reader’s imagination.

The AFT Technique for producing feminized seeds.
1. Let selected females continue to grow about 10 -14 days beyond normal fully ripe harvest.
2. Harvest the aged females and inspect for banana or male pollen sacs.
3. Remove any pollen sacs and store in an air tight plastic bag for up to 2 months
4. You must have some female plants that are in their second week of flower before the pollen begins to loose potency.
5. Using a fine water color brush take a small amount of pollen and gently apply to all the buds except the main colas (which you will keep for your use of course) Caution: pollen will be carried on the wind and remain viable for very long distances. Turn of all ventilation and fans when pollinating
6. Let the plant finish as normally and collect the seeds after the plants have been harvested and dried. You should have a selection of mature feminized seeds that are a cross of the original hermaphrodite and the seed bearing female.


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Invisiblecaptain.koons
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #332365 - 12/16/09 05:32 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

FurrowedBrow said:
Quote:

joshisstoned said:
Yeah dude, Soma has a good technique for procuring pollen sacks from female plants by simply letting a plant go longer (like a month-month1/2).




Is that accurate?  Not soma using the tek but the tek itself.




Magash has commented on the tek and says it's not a good method as the plants may be hermie prone.


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Offline81renaissance
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: captain.koons]
    #332403 - 12/16/09 06:27 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Magash has commented on the tek and says it's not a good method as the plants may be hermie prone.




This.

Magash and Soma apparently butt heads on this subject, and I'm inclined to agree with Magash.  Stressed plants that go hermi are likely to produce hermaphroditic offspring.


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Offlineshakalaka
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: 81renaissance]
    #332409 - 12/16/09 06:33 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

So then what is a better method in ur opinion?

Also...what is a simple tek for just getting regular male and female offspring.


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Invisiblecoda


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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: shakalaka]
    #332450 - 12/16/09 07:30 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

.mothers will only last so long.




you can keep mothers for years and years and years.  Plus, if your mom is looking worse for the wear just clip a clone and start a new one.  Doing this you can keep your favorite plants around for your whole life if you want.

Seeds are entirely unnecessary unless you want to start some new genetics or kill your mom and keep the genes around.


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InvisibleFurrowedBrowM
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: shakalaka]
    #332496 - 12/16/09 09:42 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

The only other method I know of that is used in creating feminized seeds is the use of a spray on chemical which i think starts with a 'c'.  idk the name.  But it also seems to me that the seed you get from an artificially induced intersex would be superior to the seeds generated from a plant that is naturally stressed to produce its seed.  idk i'll wait for others to chime in...


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Is AK47 by SS a hybrid or a stable in bred strain? [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #332527 - 12/16/09 11:28 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

ok, here's how I do it.

First pick the mother plants that you want to target for gathering pollen. Take clones from them to be tested. Now stress test them (this is the biggest fuck up in Soma's method) with light, water, nutrients, many other ways and keep track of what your doing. Now the plants that show hermie traits or the bananas that Soma talks about are discarded. In other words the plants that Soma keeps the pollen are age stressed plants. These are the exact plants I myself would discard for the porpoise he keeps them for. Doing this is not a natural thing for the plants to do and can not be done properly organically.

Now that the strong mothers have been found clones are taken from them and treated with STS treatments.

STS treatments. I got this from Rez

Preparation of STS:

First, a stock solution is made. It consists of two parts (A and B) that are initially mixed separately, then blended together. Part A is ALWAYS mixed into part B while stirring rapidly. Use distilled water; tap water may cause precipitates to form.

Wear gloves while mixing and using these chemicals, and mix and use in a properly ventilated area. A mask will prevent the breathing of any dust, which is caustic. STS is colorless and odorless, and poses minimal health risks if used as described here. (See material safety data sheet links below). Note that silver nitrate and STS can cause brown stains upon drying, so spray over newspaper and avoid spilling.

Part A: .5 gram silver nitrate stirred into 500ml distilled water
Part B: 2.5 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 500ml distilled water

The silver nitrate dissolves within 15 seconds. The sodium thiosulfate takes 30-45 seconds to dissolve.

The silver nitrate solution (A) is then mixed into the sodium thiosulfate solution (B) while stirring rapidly. The resulting blend is stock silver thiosulfate solution (STS).

This stock solution is then diluted at a ratio of 1:9 to make a working solution. For example, 100ml of stock STS is added to 900ml of distilled water. This is then sprayed on select female plants.

Both the stock STS and the working solution should be refrigerated after use, as well as the powdered chemicals, to avoid activity loss.

The adjusted formula is as follows:

Part A: .7 gram silver nitrate stirred into 40ml distilled water
Part B: 2.6 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 160 ml distilled water

Next, slowly add the silver nitrate solution to the sodium thiosulfate solution while stirring. This combination is then added to 800 ml of distilled water to equal 1 liter. This is your final stock solution. It is diluted 1:9 with more distilled water to make your final working solution, which then gets sprayed on your target plant.

Either formula will work great, so don't sweat it too much. But do that second spraying at the end of week 2... seems to be the key for getting pollen from the more difficult strains.


Application:

The STS working solution is sprayed on select female plants until runoff. Do the spraying over newspaper in a separate area from the flower room. You probably won't smell anything, but ventilate anyway. You now have what I call a "F>M plant"; a female plant that will produce male flowers.

After the F>M plant dries move it into 12/12 immediately. This is usually done three to four weeks prior to the date that the target (to be pollinated) plants will be ready to pollinate. Response times may vary slightly depending upon the strain. More specific times can be determined by trial with your own individual strains. In my trials it took 26 days for the first pollen. 30-35 days seems optimum for planning purposes.

So, assuming that a target plant needs 3-4 weeks to produce fully mature seeds, a strain that takes 8 weeks to mature should be moved into flower at about the same time as the female>male plant. A target plant that finishes flowering in 6 weeks needs to be moved into flower later (10 days or so) so that it doesn't finish before the seeds can fully mature.

A seeded individual branch can be left to mature on a plant for a bit longer, while harvesting the other seedless buds if they finish first. Just leave enough leaves on for the plant for it to stay healthy.

Effects:

Within days I noticed a yellowing of the leaves on the F>M plants. This effect persisted for two weeks or so; after this they became green again, except for a few of the larger fans. The plants otherwise seemed healthy. No burning was observed. Growth stopped dead for the first ten days, and then resumed slowly. No stretch was ever seen. After two weeks the F>M plants were obviously forming male flower clusters. Not just a few clusters of balls, but complete male flower tops. One plant still formed some pistillate flowers, but overall it was predominantly male.

It is strange indeed to see an old girlfriend that you know like the back of your hand go through a sex change. I'll admit that things were awkward between us at first.

When the F>M plants look like they may soon open and release pollen, ( 3-1/2 to 4 weeks) move them from the main flower room into another unventilated room or closet with lighting on a 12/12 timer. Don't worry too much about watts per square foot; it will only be temporary.

When the pollen flies, move your target plants into the closet and pollinate.

A more controlled approach is to isolate the F>M plants in a third remote closet (no light is necessary in this one, as they are releasing pollen now and are nearly finished anyway). In this remote other closet the pollen is very carefully collected in a plastic produce bag or newspaper sleeve and then brought back to the lighted closet, where the target plants are now located. If this is done, be careful to not mix pollen types by letting the F>Ms dust each other. Avoid movement, or use yet another closet.

Take special care to not let pollen gather on the outside of this bag- a static charge is sometimes present. Drop small open clusters of blooms inside and then close the bag at the mouth and shake. Important: next, step outside and slowly release the excess air from the bag, collapsing it completely, so that pollen doesn't get released accidentally. Point downwind; don't let it get on your hands or clothes.

This collapsed pollinated bag is now very carefully slipped over only one branch and is then tied off tightly at the mouth around the branch stem with a twist tie or tape, sealing the pollen inside. Let the bag inflate slightly with air again before sealing it off, so the branch can breathe. This technique keeps the entire plant from seeding. Agitate the bag a bit after tying it off to distribute the pollen. Don't forget to label the branch so you know which seeds are which. Other branches on this same plant can be hit with different pollen sources.

If no lighted closet is available, the plant can be moved back into the main room, but- be very careful: pollen is sneaky. After 4-5 days, the bag is gently removed and the plant completes it's flowering cycle.

Yet another method has worked well for me. I position the target plants in a non-ventilated lighted closet, and then I collect pollen on a piece of mirror or glass. This is then carefully applied to the pistils of one pre-labeled branch by using a very fine watercolor paintbrush. Care is taken to not agitate the branch or the pollen. No sneezing. The plant needs to be in place first; moving it after pollination can shake pollen free and blow this technique.

Regardless of technique, at completion you will have feminized seeds. Let them dry for 2-4 weeks.

About the chemicals:

Silver nitrate is a white crystalline light-sensitive chemical that is commonly used in photography. It is also used in babies' eyes at birth to prevent blindness. It can cause mild skin irritation, and it stains brown. Avoid breathing. I didn't notice any smell or fumes, but ventilation is recommended. Be sure to wash the spray bottle well before you use it elsewhere; better yet: devote a bottle to STS use. A half gram is a surprisingly small amount; it would fit inside a gel capsule.


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