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OfflineBudmanman

Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 169
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
cloning a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone
    #288061 - 09/29/09 12:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

my friend grows and he clones plants and then growns them and then clones from them over and over and over

so he clones a clone from a clone from a clone from a clone.

he claims there is nothing wrong with this.

is he rite?


his yields look like shit lately.


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
Pheno Hunting


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 786
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: cloning a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone [Re: Budmanman]
    #288103 - 09/29/09 01:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Clones can be taken from clones forever. If his yields are decreasing it is due to other factors.


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Skunk Train (Most Recent) | G13 Haze (Completed) | G13 Haze (Completed) | G13 Haze (Completed)
Cinnibis Rolls | Indoor Peppers

"The secret of improved plant breeding, apart from scientific knowledge, is love." -Luther Burbank


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OfflineLucid
Monster Plant Creator
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 1,082
Loc: Canada-ish. Flag
Last seen: 4 months, 12 days
Re: cloning a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #288113 - 09/29/09 01:55 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Prove it? Any related articles you can sight? Ive often wondered this questions myself.


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OfflineKine
Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 374
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: cloning a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone [Re: Lucid]
    #288127 - 09/29/09 02:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Lol, go to ICMag, Rollitup, or just about any other bud fourm.  I've even discussed the shit out of this article.  Plants can create new cells, not just divide; thus doing a clone of a clone is ok.  Its still the exact same plant; just now its in two pieces.

In mushroom cultivation its not like that.  You do a grain to grain; those cells are multiplying by division; no new cells really crated.  Thus you can only do it safely twice before you start getting bad genetics.

If its getting worse; he's getting sloppy.  The genentics arent slackin...


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InvisibleTriptonic
Male Arcade Champion: Spider Jump


Registered: 06/14/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc: Flag
Re: cloning a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone [Re: Lucid]
    #288134 - 09/29/09 02:55 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

206 said:
Clones can be taken from clones forever. If his yields are decreasing it is due to other factors.



Quote:

Lucid said:
Prove it? Any related articles you can sight? Ive often wondered this questions myself.



:rabble:


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OfflineCrusty Ass Bastard
Pheno Hunting


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 786
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: cloning a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone [Re: Lucid]
    #288166 - 09/29/09 04:31 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kine said:If its getting worse; he's getting sloppy.  The genentics arent slackin...



Yep!

Quote:

Lucid said:
Prove it? Any related articles you can sight? Ive often wondered this questions myself.




First and foremost I'm speaking from personal experience, having worked with up to 10th generation clones of a single plant. I just planted some 5th gen G13 clones, which will turn out the same as the 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st.

Unfortunately there isn't much evidence out there proving or disproving this theory, just talk. Not even Ed Rosenthal has weighed in on this definitively, he said only "The potential of a plant is determined by its genetics. Unlike seeds, clones are virtually exact genetic duplicates of the plants from which they are taken. Although there is a slight genetic drift over many generations of cloning, this phenomenon occurs very slowly" which really speaks nothing about potential loss of vigor.

Some examples from a quick google search though:

"Ok it has been 27 years for me since the day I started growing cannabis! I have heard a lot Shit over the years, some true, some way off base! I have a Panama Red plant and a Columbian Gold plant, both of which I have been colning for 24 years. Yes it is the original strains from the 70's. Mother plants died years ago, but I am always colning from the clones" http://www.rollitup.org/21109-post9.html

"When you find the plant you want to be your buddy for the rest of your life, you can keep that plant's genetic character alive forever. Propagate and share it with others, to keep a copy, should your own line die out. A clone can be taken from a clone forever, so don't worry about myths of reduced vigor" http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/mjgrow4i.htm


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|

Skunk Train (Most Recent) | G13 Haze (Completed) | G13 Haze (Completed) | G13 Haze (Completed)
Cinnibis Rolls | Indoor Peppers

"The secret of improved plant breeding, apart from scientific knowledge, is love." -Luther Burbank


Edited by Crusty Ass Bastard (09/29/09 04:33 AM)


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OfflineJeff Funk
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Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 546
Last seen: 6 months, 30 days
Re: cloning a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone [Re: Crusty Ass Bastard]
    #288195 - 09/29/09 08:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Some seed banks keeps mothers around for 20+ years.


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@Str8dankgenetics


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InvisibleMini-Maggie
Stranger

Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 42
Re: cloning a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone [Re: Jeff Funk]
    #288211 - 09/29/09 10:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

My dad has a mother room that has strains he's had longer then me. He takes cuttings off of them and flowers those. Every few months he replaces the mothers with clones of themselves. He has a Sensi Super Skunk from a pack of seeds in 1989.


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Offlinemoogles

Registered: 09/23/09
Posts: 196
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: cloning a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone [Re: Mini-Maggie]
    #288218 - 09/29/09 11:25 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Right on

These genetics I have are called Misty, which
ironically is my mother's name. I plan on keeping
my best female alive for years :heart:


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Offlinemackabee
Stranger
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Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 16
Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
Re: cloning a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone [Re: Budmanman]
    #288220 - 09/29/09 11:35 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

tell him to stop!!!!!!!! i go to a hydroponic store and the owner has been doing this for 20yrs and has used every piece of equipment out on the market. he helps me n my partner with ne question we have.

the strain eventually decreases in many factors after like 13 or so re-clones. i'd stop after 5 just to ensure the best for yourself n custies. your noticing the differnce right!!?????

serously. id tell him to stop. my info never. n i mean never fucked me. always sick results.


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InvisibleMini-Maggie
Stranger

Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 42
Re: cloning a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone [Re: mackabee]
    #288226 - 09/29/09 11:59 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Well I do know this.

My dad has been doing this since the early 80's with just this plant.

Has taught classes on the subject with Ed Rosenthal and still does in Northern California.

Sensi Seeds has kept strains for over 20 years as have a few of the other breeders.

The Cannabis Breeders Bible covers this in pages 84 to 86. The only loss has been in mothers plants that have had clones taken off of them over and over for a period of years and the number of clones the plants has to give before this happens is in the thousands.

They even have a name for it called "somaclonal" variation.

My dad knows more on the subject and should be back in a day or two. He is one of the Mods of this forum so he's fairly easy to reach if you need him. :happyweed:


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Offlinemeatcakeman
You Have Heard of the Yetti
Male Arcade Champion: Claque Beignet Engine


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 1,918
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: cloning a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone [Re: Budmanman]
    #288231 - 09/29/09 12:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The process of degeneration and degradation in genes within clones is fucking long. It's parallel to the process of evolution; genetic mutations, divergence, etc.


You're going to have to clone the same clones for decades before you see any difference between your first generation mother and your last generation clone; sure, the DNA might have differences due to subtle mutations, but the phenotypes are damn hardy during this process. Honestly, if your friend's yields are lacking in the weight department, he needs to rethink the way he grows.

Clones are clones; exact genetic copies of each other. There's no reason why a clone of a clone isn't as good as a clone of a clone of a clone.


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OfflineKine
Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 374
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: cloning a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone [Re: mackabee]
    #288303 - 09/29/09 02:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mackabee said:
tell him to stop!!!!!!!! i go to a hydroponic store and the owner has been doing this for 20yrs and has used every piece of equipment out on the market. he helps me n my partner with ne question we have.

the strain eventually decreases in many factors after like 13 or so re-clones. i'd stop after 5 just to ensure the best for yourself n custies. your noticing the differnce right!!?????

serously. id tell him to stop. my info never. n i mean never fucked me. always sick results.




Please dont spread misinformation... seriously man.  "my info never. n i mean never fucked me"... sure; but that doesnt make it right. 

And realize that because someone's been doing it for 20 years; and has every piece of high tech equipment to use does NOT make him a credible source!  Equipment only can take you so far. And for 20 years of exp; he should know better...

Clones will out live you for sure... reguardless of if you clone the clone of a clone ect... its still the same...


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Invisiblecoda


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,734
Trusted Cultivator
Re: cloning a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone [Re: Kine]
    #288505 - 09/29/09 07:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

My dad knows more on the subject and should be back in a day or two. He is one of the Mods of this forum so he's fairly easy to reach if you need him.




welcome aboard!  Lucky girl to have a dad like yours, been drooling over his bud pics for years now :wink:


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MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.


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