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Offlinehamloaf
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HID vs. LED.
    #836887 - 04/02/19 03:11 PM (3 months, 15 days ago)

In your opinion/experience; has LED surpassed HID in the fruiting department yet?


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OfflineRider420
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Registered: 06/21/17
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: hamloaf]
    #836890 - 04/02/19 06:51 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Ran out and bought a UFO led light in 2000 when LED first came out. Total waste of money.

Just for my own satisfaction I will be running a micro grow 70 watt hps light vs 80 watt led light.

Info on the grow light being tested.



Its interesting how the chip on board led lights automatically lower the power when the unit gets above operating temperature. The light i bought
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/30-50-80W-Full-Spectrum-LED-Grow-Light-Greenhouse-Plant-Flower-Lamp/332941387747?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20180124145912%26meid%3Df1315e08f1d449388f71e72e57d0de6c%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D352495360528%26itm%3D332941387747&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
starts out at 88 watts then drops to 50 watts without active cooling when i use a fan to cool the unit it stays between 84 and 86 watts. The hps 70 watt light starts out at 44 watts and goes to an average of 77 watts within five minutes.

Note be careful when buying from other nations make sure your getting 110 volt unit for north America or 220 volt unit for just about the rest of the world. Remember these units do not come with power cords you will need install one.


Edited by Rider420 (04/02/19 07:14 PM)


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InvisiblephychotronM
Medicated


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,969
Loc: Earth (mostly) Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: Rider420]
    #836891 - 04/02/19 07:15 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Most LEDs can plug right into 110 or 220.

If you buy cheap you'll get diminished results. Check my signature for my opinion on LED lights


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflineRider420
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: phychotron]
    #836898 - 04/03/19 12:36 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
Most LEDs can plug right into 110 or 220.

If you buy cheap you'll get diminished results. Check my signature for my opinion on LED lights





You do know that 220 and 110 plugs and sockets are different right? You cant just plug one into the other.

FYI its HID lights that you can rewire for either 110 or 220. COB LED lights have the driver built in and are wired directly to the mains and come in either 110 or 220.


Edited by Rider420 (04/03/19 02:21 PM)


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Offlinecsledger
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: Rider420] * 1
    #836905 - 04/03/19 02:22 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

I am currently using LED's i bought this light here.. seems to be working good
not really sure because this is my first grow, but i used some led lights that i acquired from someone that had a bunch, they are just white LED lights from menards.. did a great job on veg..




https://www.ebay.ca/itm/800W-Full-Spectrum-LED-Grow-Light-Panel-Lamp-Growing-Hydroponic-Plant-Fruit-FZ/192847985096?hash=item2ce6a2b9c8:g:PhsAAOSw3BJcIt5i


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Registered: 02/17/11
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: Rider420]
    #836906 - 04/03/19 02:28 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Rider420 said:
Quote:

phychotron said:
Most LEDs can plug right into 110 or 220.

If you buy cheap you'll get diminished results. Check my signature for my opinion on LED lights





You do know that 220 and 110 plugs and sockets are different right? You cant just plug one into the other.

FYI its HID lights that you can rewire for either 110 or 220. COB LED lights have the driver built in and are wired directly to the mains and come in either 110 or 220.




The internal LED driver can take 110 or 220, just need the specific cord for your region :wink:. Check with the manufacturer of your lights for details.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflineRider420
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: phychotron]
    #836911 - 04/03/19 04:03 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
The internal LED driver can take 110 or 220, just need the specific cord for your region :wink:. Check with the manufacturer of your lights for details.




Thanks for trying to help but please click on the ebay link above and you will discover it gives you the choice of buying 30/50/80 wattage and a voltage of either 110 or 220 and its the same with all the other sellers.

The newer LED COB units are not the same as the old separate driver and LED bulb units.

BTW 68% of legal grow companies still use HPS for flowering.

http://magazine.cannabisbusinesstimes.com/article/november-2017/facility-types.aspx


Even brand new systems designed for maximum efficiency made by corporations that spend millions on research are still using HPS.

https://www.cannabisbusinesstimes.com/article/aurora-cannabis/


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InvisibleDataM
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: Rider420]
    #836912 - 04/03/19 04:31 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Sorry man, that's simply not true for all LED providers. There are plenty of suppliers that can easily switch between 220 and 110 by changing out the plug, and this is usually stated clearly on their websites.

In fact, this is also the case for the vast majority of quality HID digital ballasts. This type of power supply is simple enough to implement these days, and is ubiquitous in equipment and appliances that need to be able to operate in a wide variety of common residential/commercial/industrial settings.

When you make the 110/220 choice at purchase, you are usually specifying which plug you want shipped, since it is much more economic to have a high input voltage range power supply on a single model and ship specific cables than it is to mass manufacture two different models of light or ballast and keep separate stocks of both.


--------------------
“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,969
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: Rider420]
    #836913 - 04/03/19 04:46 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

The very last link posted.. "Input Voltage: AC85~265V"

and from the link you posted: "Voltage:AC110-240V"

The drivers are versatile. He can ship the same unit all over the world, just needs to know which plug to include.


I don't like that corporate weed. The recreational weed stores are 'glorified swag peddlers' according to my doctor.

Here's a quick rundown of how some of those corporations 'cure' their bud:

Chop down the plants a week early, dip in peroxide to defeat states mold requirements, debone and dehydrate overnight. Machine trim it, then hand trim the rest (that trim goes into 'pre-rolls'). Package into small 1-7gram bags and ship off to the store the very next day.

All those cock suckers care about is profit, NOT high quality cannabis. I don't agree with 'appeal to authority' logic. Cannabis at the cheapest possible production cost is not always going to be the highest quality cannabis.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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Offlinehamloaf
Biometric Precursor.


Registered: 10/21/13
Posts: 179
Loc: Back in the USSR. Flag
Last seen: 7 days, 10 hours
Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: phychotron]
    #836914 - 04/03/19 06:14 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Thanks everyone for the replies, so far they have been helpful.

If you all have a few minutes to watch the videos below there is a op that does a side by side led vs hid and the LED blows the HID out of the water.  Video 2 is the results.





So, imo, the possible reason for the majority of commercial/corporate farmers still using hps has to do with them simply not coming around to the upmost cutting edge technology.

These LED models will be exactly the brand and hopefully size I will be working with.  What sat ye?


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Registered: 02/17/11
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: phychotron]
    #836915 - 04/03/19 06:47 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Those have the design I wanted to build. I would get some if I could, not growing right now in my new apartment.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflineRider420
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Registered: 06/21/17
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: hamloaf]
    #836918 - 04/04/19 02:12 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:

If you all have a few minutes to watch the videos below there is a op that does a side by side led vs hid and the LED blows the HID out of the water.  Video 2 is the results.






Or you can read how and why LP are still using HPS lights while they are lowering their costs.

https://www.cannabisbusinesstimes.com/article/aurora-cannabis/


Quote:

This design, created in collaboration with Larssen Limited (which Aurora purchased in November 2017 and re-branded to Aurora Larssen Projects (ALPS)), allows Aurora to harness the sun’s power while maintaining the same number of high-pressure sodium (HPS) lights and using the same sophisticated environmental control system (ECS) as an indoor facility.

Cam Battley, the company’s chief corporate officer (CCO), says, “The objective of creating this … concept in cannabis cultivation is to ensure that we have an absolutely optimal environment for plant health and high yield.”

At scale, the Sky facility will produce more than 100,000 kilograms (220,000 lbs.) of cannabis per year. (Currently, Aurora Sky is operating at about 25-percent capacity with one mother room and four flower rooms licensed for sale by Health Canada.) According to the company’s most recent pro forma, it cost Aurora CA$1.45 (US$1.08) to produce every dried gram of cannabis it sold in Canada during its first fiscal quarter of 2019. Battley says that figure likely will drop to less than CA$1 (US$0.75) once the facility is fully operational. (The mean cost per gram across the cannabis industry was US$1.29 in 2017, according to Cannabis Business Times’ 2017 “State of the Cannabis Lighting Market” report.)

What helps keep those costs down is the Sky facility’s “unprecedented” level of automation and technology in the cannabis industry, Battley says. That automation and technology also allows Samantha Olivier, Aurora Sky’s lead cultivator, to oversee the facility’s current stock of 200,000 plants (with more on the way as the company waits to receive more sales licenses from Health Canada) with a team of just six employees.






If that video was real then Aurora would be using those LED light along with every other Legal producer. Phototron is right when it come to these corporations that they have shareholders to report to and have to be cost effetiive.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: Rider420]
    #836919 - 04/04/19 02:34 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

The first photo clearly shows the use of LED's.

Maybe they didn't want to risk a lot with new technology that few know how to master. There are a lot of reasons to not spend a huge sum on lights in order to lower your power bill. You can always upgrade later once you've done more research (it takes years to do these longitudinal grows to compare light sources) Maybe the cranes they use to lift the plants out won't operate with a bunch of low hanging fixtures. Cranes that are eliminating their biggest expense of employment(down to just 6 people). Too many factors to say its the light itself that is better.

Lets talk more subjectively about how the light compares, and how people seem to get a higher % of THC and more terpenes with LED's.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


Edited by phychotron (04/04/19 02:38 PM)


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OfflineRider420
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Registered: 06/21/17
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: phychotron]
    #836920 - 04/04/19 03:26 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
The first photo clearly shows the use of LED's.

Maybe they didn't want to risk a lot with new technology that few know how to master. There are a lot of reasons to not spend a huge sum on lights in order to lower your power bill. You can always upgrade later once you've done more research (it takes years to do these longitudinal grows to compare light sources) Maybe the cranes they use to lift the plants out won't operate with a bunch of low hanging fixtures. Cranes that are eliminating their biggest expense of employment(down to just 6 people). Too many factors to say its the light itself that is better.

Lets talk more subjectively about how the light compares, and how people seem to get a higher % of THC and more terpenes with LED's.




Yup that photo is of the LED lights they use when working on the plants during the dark period that's why they are red.

Sorry buddy but if LED lights worked as good as the sales men who sell it claim all LPs would use it. FYI it only takes one flowering cycle to test new lights like Induction plasma https://www.growlights.ca/growlights/grow-light-kits/induction-grow-lights/fusion-bright-300w-commercial-induction-grow-light-kit.html , CMH https://www.growlights.ca/growlights/ceramic-metal-halide-lights-cmh/945w-1000w-double-ended-de-systems.html or the newest LED lights.

As for higher THC content LP do test all their products under different lights and use a lab for exact results do you or anyone you know do that?

Sorry I will not argue subjective points because polar opposites are both right from their own perspective. You love chocolate ice-cream I love strawberry ice-cream who is right? Both of us!


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OfflineRider420
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: phychotron]
    #836921 - 04/04/19 03:34 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
The very last link posted.. "Input Voltage: AC85~265V"

and from the link you posted: "Voltage:AC110-240V"

The drivers are versatile. He can ship the same unit all over the world, just needs to know which plug to include.


I don't like that corporate weed. The recreational weed stores are 'glorified swag peddlers' according to my doctor.

Here's a quick rundown of how some of those corporations 'cure' their bud:

Chop down the plants a week early, dip in peroxide to defeat states mold requirements, debone and dehydrate overnight. Machine trim it, then hand trim the rest (that trim goes into 'pre-rolls'). Package into small 1-7gram bags and ship off to the store the very next day.

All those cock suckers care about is profit, NOT high quality cannabis. I don't agree with 'appeal to authority' logic. Cannabis at the cheapest possible production cost is not always going to be the highest quality cannabis.




FYI The LED light did not come with a plug I had to wire it myself. Please click on the ebay link and take a look at the pics this unit does not come with a plug. These type of COB chips are either 220 or 110.


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: Rider420] * 1
    #836922 - 04/04/19 06:37 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

Ok, one cycle to test a new light. And how many different types of lights are you going to test? the LED fixtures cost a lot. Its not like a bulb you can swap out into the same ballast.

Second, you have to change the environment and nutrients for LED lights when compared to HPS. Is it guaranteed the best the first time? 

Third, the initial cost of lights is much higher than an existing power bill. Spending 10x the price on lights to save 20-40% electricity might not even be an obtainable goal without a large investment. Investment into emerging technology--LED tech doubles in power every 18 months and is coming down in price all the time.

Red makes the plants grow. Green is the color they use when the lights are off.

Based on the link you posted, its not even a real grow light. Chinese imitation product.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflineRider420
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Registered: 06/21/17
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: phychotron]
    #836958 - 04/05/19 08:05 PM (3 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
Ok, one cycle to test a new light. And how many different types of lights are you going to test? the LED fixtures cost a lot. Its not like a bulb you can swap out into the same ballast.

Second, you have to change the environment and nutrients for LED lights when compared to HPS. Is it guaranteed the best the first time? 

Third, the initial cost of lights is much higher than an existing power bill. Spending 10x the price on lights to save 20-40% electricity might not even be an obtainable goal without a large investment. Investment into emerging technology--LED tech doubles in power every 18 months and is coming down in price all the time.

Red makes the plants grow. Green is the color they use when the lights are off.

Based on the link you posted, its not even a real grow light. Chinese imitation product.




I bought my first LED light in 2000 19 years ago if the power double every two years they would have replaced HID lights years ago. I bought my HID lights in 88 that i still use! That works out to 30 years cost of $300 for both ballasts is ten dollars per year. Bulbs are about 20 per year in cost. So for the past thirty years it has cost me 30 per year in lights or 900 in total. How much did you pay for your LED lights?

FYI check out a couple of the latest LED grows by LP like sugar leaf. While veg is done with LED they still used HPS lights to harden the plants before moving them into the flower room.

Please note that the flowering room has more HPS lighting in it then LED.



Yet another example of HPS and LED lighting for flowering.



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OfflineRider420
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Registered: 06/21/17
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: phychotron]
    #836959 - 04/05/19 08:22 PM (3 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:


Based on the link you posted, its not even a real grow light. Chinese imitation product.




SAJLMFAO If you follow the first you tube video Clive will tell you about this chip then you wanted to know.





Notice i had to wire in the plug



And like I said it uses about 85 watts.



Please notice its the same lighter i have in all my grow pics.



Edited by Rider420 (04/05/19 09:06 PM)


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InvisiblephychotronM
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Registered: 02/17/11
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: Rider420] * 1
    #836965 - 04/06/19 12:45 AM (3 months, 11 days ago)

You should use wire nuts on those wires instead of electrical tape. Electrical tape is not designed to hold wires together like that.


--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein


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OfflineRider420
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Registered: 06/21/17
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Re: HID vs. LED. [Re: phychotron]
    #836971 - 04/07/19 12:05 PM (3 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

phychotron said:
You should use wire nuts on those wires instead of electrical tape. Electrical tape is not designed to hold wires together like that.





Yup your right thanks for the heads up. I will be using a box and wire nuts when I install the fixture. This set up was just for testing.

BTW I recommend using a GFI socket in your grow area. While no one has died from cannabis overdose more then a few people have electrocuted themselves to death.


Edited by Rider420 (04/07/19 12:13 PM)


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